[ QUOTE ]
I agree with removing it from Atlas. There is far too much broadcast spamming going on for new players to be exposed to even without AE farming spams.
I agree with moving it to Galaxy. There is very little traffic in Galaxy. Face it, most of the time your first contact sends you to Atlas right away anyway! I think moving the AE there would bring more traffic. I know there are those that probably like Galaxy to themselves, but there is a lot of good content there that is missed because there is little or no reason to go there. Galaxy was my street hunting zone from 5-10 until police missions hit, and I started heading for Kings Row to work to get a jet pack. Once I had that, it really didn't make much sense to go back to Galaxy. The AE is the hook it needs. - or maybe come missions need to be moved to drag more traffic over there. (maybe some low level arena stuff would help aide traffic through there as well).
I don't care either way about Steel at this point, so I can't make a good decision as far as that goes. - though Steel gets far more traffic than Skyway, so...
I think that level-wise, etc. that Talos is a good place for the AE. It is a nexus of sorts, so that makes it a good place for it. I would hate to see it end up at the far end of IP! (either far end!) 
Since this isn't an anti-farming thread, I guess I shouldn't suggest that everyone spam ignore players that send them tells requesting them to fill so that the farmer can make more loot and the filler gets used. So I won't, people will have to come up with that idea themselves if they so desire.
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How would moving the farms to Galaxy make people do the galaxy content though? if anything that means people would simply roll galaxy, blitz past galaxy levels in seconds and never see the content.
Want comedy and lighthearted action? Between levels 1-14? Try Nuclear in 90 - The Fusionette Task Force!
Arc ID 58363!
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How would moving the farms to Galaxy make people do the galaxy content though? if anything that means people would simply roll galaxy, blitz past galaxy levels in seconds and never see the content.
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I believe the idea is:
* People who want to farm will farm anyway.
* New players have a strong tendency to start in Atlas.
* The majority of farm broadcast will be out of sight from the majority of new players
* New players therefore may be more inclined to get a first impression as a game to be played for the journey
Everyone relax and wait for the hype to cool down. Don't start asking for the removal of buildings based on two weeks of gameplay with a new issue.
For now:
1. Turn of broadcast.
2. Play in low population zones.
3. Join a frigging SG and a Global Chanel if you want good non AE tems.
4. Take a sedative and actually enjoy it as a game...
If you're this worked up playing a game, I worry about your health in real life.
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I agree with moving it to Galaxy. There is very little traffic in Galaxy. Face it, most of the time your first contact sends you to Atlas right away anyway!
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There's already an AE in Galaxy. That wouldn't solve the problem, though, it would just move it to Galaxy. Characters who go to Galaxy still have to deal with tremendous lag. While Galaxy is less popular, people still don't have a choice about if they want to get a respec from Jack Wolfe.
People are complaining about lag, but no one is saying what exactly is causing it. They're just complaining of rubberbanding, slow response times, being unable to move, etc. We really need to identify the type of lag that is causing the trouble to identify the right fix.
These lag effects are caused by something: typically it's too many graphics effects (low FPS) from too many characters, too much data being transmitted from too many characters, long ping times (which can mean the server CPU is overloaded because of the sheer number of characters), lost data packets, etc.
Different kinds of lag will require different kinds of solutions.
One thing that's different about AE is that it the interior is above ground -- you can see outside. This is a neat feature, which I like a lot. From my experiments it doesn't seem like you can see inside from the outside: the windows are gray or reflective. This means that the interior is essentially the same as a store interior that is far below the surface. That means that the optimizer should be able to ignore any character data from inside AE when sending display information to characters who are outside the building.
From my experiments, it doesn't look like that's happening. I started a character at City Hall on Freedom server and walked it over to AE. As I went, the FPS went from 60 down to 40, then down to less than 20. The data rate went from 3 or 4K and spiked to 16K, then went down when when I stopped, then increased again when I went forward again (probably as I got into the radius where more character data got sent to me). The data rate then went down again to 5K. When I went into the building and went up the elevator to the imaging chamber, FPS dropped to 7 and then went up again to 20 after a while, where it hovered.
I then went outside on the balcony overlooking City Hall and got a data rate of 3-5K and an FPS of 40. If I turn and look at the windows of AE, I get a data rate of 3-4K and FPS of 40-50. When I go back inside the main room my FPS goes down to 25, but interestingly my data rate hovers around 3-4K (because most people are just standing there doing nothing).
What this boils down to is that the lag problem with AE should be fixable, simply by not sending data to characters who don't enter the building. If I never go into AE, the system should not send me any data about the existence of characters inside.
The system already does a lot of this kind of optimization (which you can see by going in and out of AE onto the balcony). The problem seems to be that as you approach AE you're getting data about all the characters who are inside the building, even though you can't see them.
If the lag that people are experiencing is really an overloaded server CPU, then the threshold for the number of instances of Atlas Park needs to be changed. This is a drastic solution which I don't particularly like, but on Freedom it was very common to see two or three instances of PI during the evenings, when all the PLing went on there.
As for the broadcast chatter: the devs are already adding an AE broadcast channel, but the problem could be solved in another way: anything broadcast inside AE could be limited to the building. This sort of thing is already done with local chat, which has a shorter radius in Pocket D.
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Actually, I WAS 50 before I ever ended up in a CoT prison, and that was in issue 12, so nothing to do with MA :P
[/ QUOTE ]
I have this problem as well. Most of my highbies hit 45-50 in issue 2-3. The game was a different beast back then. But, I still know where Skyway is. But there's a green line trolly there now, which freaks me out.
I've done some additional experiments, and it looks like the system sends you data on other characters when you come within about 150 yards.
Does anyone recall the depth of store and other building interiors? My guess is that just beyond that threshold.
[ QUOTE ]
Everyone relax and wait for the hype to cool down. Don't start asking for the removal of buildings based on two weeks of gameplay with a new issue.
For now:
1. Turn of broadcast.
2. Play in low population zones.
3. Join a frigging SG and a Global Chanel if you want good non AE tems.
4. Take a sedative and actually enjoy it as a game...
If you're this worked up playing a game, I worry about your health in real life.
[/ QUOTE ]
Funny thing is, I keep seeing the people on high levels toons wanting high level teams and staying in atlas...Am I the only one that see's a problem here? Move to founders or PI and eliminate all those low level broadcasts.
Lots of 50's yada yada. still finding fun things to do.
Cthulhu loves you, better start running
I�! I�! Gg�gorsch�a�bha egurtsa�ar�ug d� Dalhor! Cthluhu fthagn! Cthluhu fthagn!
You are in a maze of twisty little passages
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Everyone relax and wait for the hype to cool down. Don't start asking for the removal of buildings based on two weeks of gameplay with a new issue.
For now:
1. Turn of broadcast.
2. Play in low population zones.
3. Join a frigging SG and a Global Chanel if you want good non AE tems.
4. Take a sedative and actually enjoy it as a game...
If you're this worked up playing a game, I worry about your health in real life.
[/ QUOTE ]
Funny thing is, I keep seeing the people on high levels toons wanting high level teams and staying in atlas...Am I the only one that see's a problem here? Move to founders or PI and eliminate all those low level broadcasts.
[/ QUOTE ]
I actually view that as a plus. Paragon City really needed a spot that felt like Times Square, now it has one. All AP needs to complete the picture is a traffic jam or two, (preferably not of zeus and kronos titans again)
The problem is that the server architecture can't seem to handle that kind of traffic in one zone. There's "busy" and then there's "jammed."
My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City
[ QUOTE ]
Funny thing is, I keep seeing the people on high levels toons wanting high level teams and staying in atlas...Am I the only one that see's a problem here? Move to founders or PI and eliminate all those low level broadcasts.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, you're not the only one to see the problem. But when I suggested that the system be changed to require players to start AE missions in level-appropriate zones, exactly the same way that you have to go to zones of your level to start Radio/Paper missions, I was roundly shouted down.
Having so much lag and obnoxious broadcasting going on in Atlas is not good for the game. New players will see that zoo and will think the whole game is like that. And that's not good for any of us.
[ QUOTE ]
The problem is that the server architecture can't seem to handle that kind of traffic in one zone. There's "busy" and then there's "jammed."
[/ QUOTE ]
Sure it can, it handles it by spawning Atlas Park 2, Atlas Park 3, etc.
Here's a repost of my farming thoughts o.@
Subjective Feedback:
I think one of the main issues Ive found is that everyones got a knee jerk reaction to this. Farming has been happening regardless of this tool. Yes. It is easier now, but it will occur whether you wish it to or not. I agree with those that say its their money they should be able to play the way they want. I performed an experiment the other night and in one hour as a level 1 dominator I went from 1 to 18 in less then 45 minutes on one run.
Alot of the following is my opinion and a theory, take it as much!
This is somewhat frightening, but not doom. There may need to be something implemented and probably IS going to be. The reason they more then likely arent doing anything is that would skew their numbers. A launch that was delayed this long more then likely made shareholders or someone higher then Positron nervous and they wanted proof it was worth while. Solution? Reactivate all accounts. Full Exp and Inf for everything AE based. DO this for x amount of time. Datamine your numbers. Present. Then when its deemed alright, go in and fix the issues some have with it being a farm fest. This also frees up content to be created for a possible sequel game, a graphical upgrade, and pre-planning against the onslaught of CO and DCUO. You may lose some in the mix, but those are acceptable losses. Lets face it, were not important. The money is. Thats the way its always been whether anyone admits it or not, its about bottom line. I dont like it, but I accept that.
End Theory
Now onto the feedback! 
Something I recommend is that you implement a formula that could possibly punish for farming:
<ul type="square">[*]Use your data collectors to average out the high end levelers. Take the average amount of levels and put that as a cap you can safely attain PER 24 hours cycle. Any level after that runs a 10% risk of losing a level back to the safe cap. Each additional level then runs an additional 2% chance to roll back, capping at somewhere near 75%. This would encourage swapping and alting, one of the rather strong elements of the game. Roleplayers wouldnt have an issues levels arent what RP is about. PVPers wont have an issue since they dont really do much as it is :P Casuals wont be affected. Hardcores will know their numbers as any hardcore would. The only punishment? [u]Farmers.[u][*]Issues a three strike rule on farming maps, but by god make sure your maps your banning are farming maps. Make a support member actually play the thing, most of your support is canned responses from someone who is either too busy to deal with you or doesnt care about their job. (Keyword:Most)
[*][u]1st strike[u]: a warning and an open forum with the support member who flagged it on how you see it as not a farming map and they do. Compromise. [*][u]2nd strike[u]: Ban for [u]72 hours[u], datamine their time and see where their account logs in the most. Hit them THERE at their peak times. Or let them be unteamable, theres a code in there for that, you know it :P Im sure a three day cruise of Im street patrolling will let them think over their stance.[*][u]3rd strike[u]: A 6 month ban from the MA system, and all missions unpublished, remove badges remove any influence and exp obtained from such at no refund possible. Hit them in their superbase as well.[*]Datamine and obtained the names of anyone theyve teamed with on their farms and anyone whose not reported it via cross-referencing. Issue them a warning for not turning in the content. [*][u]Additional Suggesstion:[u] After so many exp runs in the MA, reduce the exp and inf and prestiage gained by a mathematical formula eventually starting to take away from your stockpiles of all. Make this number [u]High[u]. Have the system issue a warning before and after the threshold.[/list]
Extreme? Maybe, but it sounds like everyone wants this to stop NOW. Im not one of them but Im getting tired of watching people argue in broadcast like we used to argue in PVP zones. No I shouldnt have to turn off my broadcast :P Thats like the doctor saying well dont do that!. :P
Now your star / ratings system, thats a [u]whole new issue all together[u]. I understand that the idea of keeping the playerbase busy bickering with each other. Its a fine idea. BUT, you empower them too much, and its possible for it to either explode, or level out. Highwire act in my opinion. :P Again, an entire other issue! =)
Regards,
-C.A.
u cannot punish farming. you can punish exploits. huge difference between the two. untill more people realize that farming is not going away and start zeroing in on the exploits only will this get better.
If people wanna farm, to each his/her own. I don't go around reporting farmers. I also don't go around trying to ruin a farm. How about a little courtesy back? That is my problem with all this...
I get tells to fill every 5 mins. I get invites to join farms if I have a lvl 50 with a resume that they feel will fit their farming needs. All while on not looking for team. If I wasn't getting constantly bombarded every time I play to farm I wouldn't care.
So the solutions I have heard from the farmers is to shut off my broadcast channel, set myself to not accepting invites, and leave my server and find a quiet place to hide while they play. How about no. I am not being chased away, just looking for a way to co-exist.
It is the new flavor. It will die down a bit like all the other issues when they were released. I will ignore the tells. I understand all that. How about some courtesy though? Not looking for team, is not looking for team. Putting in your search comment 'non farmer or not a filler' also seems to draw lots of invites to do those things anyway. Is that too much of a compromise?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Everyone relax and wait for the hype to cool down. Don't start asking for the removal of buildings based on two weeks of gameplay with a new issue.
For now:
1. Turn of broadcast.
2. Play in low population zones.
3. Join a frigging SG and a Global Chanel if you want good non AE tems.
4. Take a sedative and actually enjoy it as a game...
If you're this worked up playing a game, I worry about your health in real life.
[/ QUOTE ]
Funny thing is, I keep seeing the people on high levels toons wanting high level teams and staying in atlas...Am I the only one that see's a problem here? Move to founders or PI and eliminate all those low level broadcasts.
[/ QUOTE ]
I actually view that as a plus. Paragon City really needed a spot that felt like Times Square, now it has one. All AP needs to complete the picture is a traffic jam or two, (preferably not of zeus and kronos titans again)
[/ QUOTE ]
I can just see a kronos titan backinng up with "BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP"
Lots of 50's yada yada. still finding fun things to do.
Cthulhu loves you, better start running
I�! I�! Gg�gorsch�a�bha egurtsa�ar�ug d� Dalhor! Cthluhu fthagn! Cthluhu fthagn!
You are in a maze of twisty little passages
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Funny thing is, I keep seeing the people on high levels toons wanting high level teams and staying in atlas...Am I the only one that see's a problem here? Move to founders or PI and eliminate all those low level broadcasts.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, you're not the only one to see the problem. But when I suggested that the system be changed to require players to start AE missions in level-appropriate zones, exactly the same way that you have to go to zones of your level to start Radio/Paper missions, I was roundly shouted down.
Having so much lag and obnoxious broadcasting going on in Atlas is not good for the game. New players will see that zoo and will think the whole game is like that. And that's not good for any of us.
[/ QUOTE ]
My point is if you are high level and you dont like the chatter on bcast...move to a level appropriate zone. The devs shouldnt have to think for you. If you wont move, learn to live with it.
Lots of 50's yada yada. still finding fun things to do.
Cthulhu loves you, better start running
I�! I�! Gg�gorsch�a�bha egurtsa�ar�ug d� Dalhor! Cthluhu fthagn! Cthluhu fthagn!
You are in a maze of twisty little passages
[ QUOTE ]
If people wanna farm, to each his/her own. I don't go around reporting farmers. I also don't go around trying to ruin a farm. How about a little courtesy back? That is my problem with all this...
I get tells to fill every 5 mins. I get invites to join farms if I have a lvl 50 with a resume that they feel will fit their farming needs. All while on not looking for team. If I wasn't getting constantly bombarded every time I play to farm I wouldn't care.
So the solutions I have heard from the farmers is to shut off my broadcast channel, set myself to not accepting invites, and leave my server and find a quiet place to hide while they play. How about no. I am not being chased away, just looking for a way to co-exist.
It is the new flavor. It will die down a bit like all the other issues when they were released. I will ignore the tells. I understand all that. How about some courtesy though? Not looking for team, is not looking for team. Putting in your search comment 'non farmer or not a filler' also seems to draw lots of invites to do those things anyway. Is that too much of a compromise?
[/ QUOTE ]
You know, its amazing. I have a number of friends that I fill for regularly. I get a fill request from someone maybe every week or so. You must be a wonderful guy to have so many hold you in such regard. All these people single you out for fill requests and the rest of us hear nothing. Wow, sucks to be you.
Lots of 50's yada yada. still finding fun things to do.
Cthulhu loves you, better start running
I�! I�! Gg�gorsch�a�bha egurtsa�ar�ug d� Dalhor! Cthluhu fthagn! Cthluhu fthagn!
You are in a maze of twisty little passages
honestly atlas park is over crowded for 2 reasons. power levelers can lvl their lowbies without zoning. and 2 wentworths can be seen through the e building upstairs window. the sheer convience of droping out that window into wentworths is a big draw to people running ae content.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If people wanna farm, to each his/her own. I don't go around reporting farmers. I also don't go around trying to ruin a farm. How about a little courtesy back? That is my problem with all this...
I get tells to fill every 5 mins. I get invites to join farms if I have a lvl 50 with a resume that they feel will fit their farming needs. All while on not looking for team. If I wasn't getting constantly bombarded every time I play to farm I wouldn't care.
So the solutions I have heard from the farmers is to shut off my broadcast channel, set myself to not accepting invites, and leave my server and find a quiet place to hide while they play. How about no. I am not being chased away, just looking for a way to co-exist.
It is the new flavor. It will die down a bit like all the other issues when they were released. I will ignore the tells. I understand all that. How about some courtesy though? Not looking for team, is not looking for team. Putting in your search comment 'non farmer or not a filler' also seems to draw lots of invites to do those things anyway. Is that too much of a compromise?
[/ QUOTE ]
You know, its amazing. I have a number of friends that I fill for regularly. I get a fill request from someone maybe every week or so. You must be a wonderful guy to have so many hold you in such regard. All these people single you out for fill requests and the rest of us hear nothing. Wow, sucks to be you.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, on Freedom server. Are u kidding? Show up in Atlas Park one and stand there with a lvl 50 and see how long it takes. Come in with a lowbie and get invites to farm constantly. Maybe you don't have the right build to get the invites or are on another server...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If people wanna farm, to each his/her own. I don't go around reporting farmers. I also don't go around trying to ruin a farm. How about a little courtesy back? That is my problem with all this...
I get tells to fill every 5 mins. I get invites to join farms if I have a lvl 50 with a resume that they feel will fit their farming needs. All while on not looking for team. If I wasn't getting constantly bombarded every time I play to farm I wouldn't care.
So the solutions I have heard from the farmers is to shut off my broadcast channel, set myself to not accepting invites, and leave my server and find a quiet place to hide while they play. How about no. I am not being chased away, just looking for a way to co-exist.
It is the new flavor. It will die down a bit like all the other issues when they were released. I will ignore the tells. I understand all that. How about some courtesy though? Not looking for team, is not looking for team. Putting in your search comment 'non farmer or not a filler' also seems to draw lots of invites to do those things anyway. Is that too much of a compromise?
[/ QUOTE ]
You know, its amazing. I have a number of friends that I fill for regularly. I get a fill request from someone maybe every week or so. You must be a wonderful guy to have so many hold you in such regard. All these people single you out for fill requests and the rest of us hear nothing. Wow, sucks to be you.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, on Freedom server. Are u kidding? Show up in Atlas Park one and stand there with a lvl 50 and see how long it takes. Come in with a lowbie and get invites to farm constantly. Maybe you don't have the right build to get the invites or are on another server...
[/ QUOTE ]
that would explain it. I dont play on freedooooom. I love infinity. i have tried a few others and no way.
Lots of 50's yada yada. still finding fun things to do.
Cthulhu loves you, better start running
I�! I�! Gg�gorsch�a�bha egurtsa�ar�ug d� Dalhor! Cthluhu fthagn! Cthluhu fthagn!
You are in a maze of twisty little passages
[ QUOTE ]
a formula that could possibly punish for farming
[/ QUOTE ]
Farming will never be punished. It's very easy to insert a cap that would limit people to only allow a toon to gain one level a day. Of course, it's also very easy to unsubscribe as well.
[ QUOTE ]
Take the average amount of levels and put that as a cap you can safely attain PER 24 hours cycle.
[/ QUOTE ]
Taking away earned levels is an extremely bad idea. This would reduce xp to the level of merits for all aspecs of the game, and would hurt every player. There are casual players who occasionally find time to play for a long stretch that this could harm. I don't alt that much. I'll make a toon and level him to about 10-14, but for the most part, I play one toon from level 1 to level 50 until I switch out for a new toon. This would hurt everyone, and lose many subscriptions.
[ QUOTE ]
Issues a three strike rule on farming maps
[/ QUOTE ]
Banning farming maps is a joke. I have a friend who has over 300+ feedbacks for his farm map, and is rated 4 stars. It has 3 missions in the arc, all three are com officers, and it has a funny story line. It was reported about a week ago as being a farm map and the complaint went something like "This is an obvious farm map in disguise and should be banned". It's still up, and I think it's a fun map to play.
For any MA arc, it shouldn't matter how many levels you gain, but how much fun you have playing it. Trying to penalize farming is the same as trying to penalize fun. When fun starts getting penalized, that's when people will start leaving.
As for the rating system, I one star - three star arcs that I don't find fun. I will only 5 star arcs with good story content, and lots of chaos. A well thought out story arc is garbage without chaos.
How about something simple like a lvl limit per zone. Atlas is good till u hit lvl 6 then you move to Kings Row AE. This way it's not focused in one zone.
Of course then u need to be in certain zone to run a certain lvl mish in AE....prolly more chaos than it's worth in the long run..
[ QUOTE ]
QFT, the lag in atlas is nothing compared to hami or RWZ
[/ QUOTE ]
I am painfully aware of this fact. As demonstrated by the Anniversary event, where I had to leave after 20 minutes of being able to only do two things reliably - Stand Around and Die.
Now... if I could only figure out how to FIX the problem...
-This Space Intentionally Left Blank.-
[ QUOTE ]
How about something simple like a lvl limit per zone. Atlas is good till u hit lvl 6 then you move to Kings Row AE. This way it's not focused in one zone.
Of course then u need to be in certain zone to run a certain lvl mish in AE....prolly more chaos than it's worth in the long run..
[/ QUOTE ]
and eliminate sk'ing? one of the flagship technologies of the game? Just so you can try to force people to play with you?
Lots of 50's yada yada. still finding fun things to do.
Cthulhu loves you, better start running
I�! I�! Gg�gorsch�a�bha egurtsa�ar�ug d� Dalhor! Cthluhu fthagn! Cthluhu fthagn!
You are in a maze of twisty little passages
Sort of yes and sort of no. It started more as a "maybe this will shut up people up about farming" initially.
Dec out.
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