As I had originally designed it, Arc #36984 had one defeat all mission that made perfect sense in the context of the arc. After testing it out, I decided that the map I wanted to use was WAY too big for a defeat all, so I put in two boss encounters instead at the back of the map. Changed the description to "Defeat as many as you can" or something like that but made it clear that you didn't have to defeat ALL of them. I agree, defeat alls are one of the most annoying and time wasting mission types there is - it's almost as if the Author (be it player or Dev) is saying "Here, waste your time with this filler mission while I think about weather or not I'm gonna give you something FUN to do next mission."
That said, I wouldn't automatically rate an arc down if it contained a reasonable defeat all (small map, good story reason), but I'd be considering it.
-Escher
"I swear you could fling a man hole cover across the street and hit more notes than 90% of those idiots on American Idol" -Desmodos
"Every time you post I feel like I been hit with a fist full of smart! Thanks." - Volken re: Sucker Punch
Arc #36984 V'kta A'cha Vox'm
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"Find 60 glowies", or "rescue 27 escorts" are defacto defeat alls IMHO. Sure you might be able to skip a few groups here and there, but in practice you're going to be fighting most of the mobs on the map.
I'm more worried about the "find lots of glowies on this huge Orenbenga map", because those are the ones that will find a new clever hiding spot for one of them and I'll spend 10 minutes combing the map from back to front looking for the stupid thing.
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Yep. I hate those missions when they come up in the regular game. I certainly have the right to hate them in the MA arcs.
And I certainly won't be writing a story arc that I hate just to try to annoy people.
Arc# 92382 -- "The S.P.I.D.E.R. and the Tyrant" -- Ninjas! Robots! Praetorians! It's totally epic! Play it now!
Arc # 316340 -- "Husk" -- Azuria loses something, a young woman harbors a dark secret, and the fate of the world is in your hands.
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I'm sure there is a thematic reason for "defeat alls" that wouldn't be so bad. After all, everyone knows if you leave just one zombie/vampire/werewolf/infected around you're just asking for trouble. 
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For vampires and werewolves, don't you just have to kill the head vampire or werewolf? That's how it works in the horror movies.
Zombies are a whole other issue, though.
Arc# 92382 -- "The S.P.I.D.E.R. and the Tyrant" -- Ninjas! Robots! Praetorians! It's totally epic! Play it now!
Arc # 316340 -- "Husk" -- Azuria loses something, a young woman harbors a dark secret, and the fate of the world is in your hands.
This thread is interesting. I would suggest a thread where you recommend arcs. No judements, no hurt feeling, just fun arcs you want to share and give some praise to the publisher.
Can't say I'd care for that either. I'd imagine some people would felt left out if they weren't "praised"/called out for their arcs?
Not necessarily because it isn't fun, but for the simple fact it just hasn't been played by others.
*shrug* I just think the current, private, feedback system and/or board PMs should suffice for both praise and feedback.
I've already forgotten about most of you
Any arc I give a 4 or 5 star rating to in here can be considered recommended.
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Any arc I give a 4 or 5 star rating to in here can be considered recommended.
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and since I disagree with your reasons/methods, that would have the opposite effect on what I'd actively search for.
Go figure.
I've already forgotten about most of you
There are good reasons to have defeat alls, and you can actually set up the mission to make it easier to do. My arc has two defeat alls, but that's because you absolutely cannot have anyone report that you were the one actually doing the attack on the two hangouts.
To alleviate the "pain" of having to do that, one is all Family (relatively easy opponents), and I picked two fairly linear maps, so it's hard not to see all the foes as you go through anyway. Knowing and picking your map is a big one... if I have a hostage on a Croatoa maps, I'm probably going to use those capture settings where magic is used on them: flares, so to speak, to help a player see where they are.
Any objective setup they have for a mission is okay, as long as the reasons for that objective make sense, and as long as things are set up to make it fairly easy to accomplish said objectives (or at least without too much frustration). The real reason people don't like defeat alls (or find the 25 magicians on this Oranbega map) is because most CoX missions where those happen are in huge maps with nooks and crannies with things that can hide. Until you KNOW an arc creator didn't set up an objective well, rejecting it because it has a type of objective is being hasty.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
Sorry Pilgrim, I disagree. If on a team, the map scales/changes completely as well as the number of mobs to defeat. If you want to make your objective "easy", you specify X number of objectives. "Everything" isn't a number.
Regardless, the reason behind the defeat all does NOT make up for it being a defeat all. It's still a defeat all; the "story" reason does not make up or alter the game mechanic. And please don't try to tell me why I don't like something in this game......
IMO and all that.
I've already forgotten about most of you
I have no problem with defeat alls if they have a story reason, but they're still more tiresome than non-defeat-alls. Also, a defeat all in a Casino is a different animal than a defeat all in the RWZ portal room unique or (were it available -- is it?) the Atta map.
I noted with some amusement that the defeat-all Voodoo complained so bitterly about in my arc has maybe 10-12 spawns in it total.
I couldn't come up with a good story reason to make it not a defeat all though, so I hope it's not too onerous for everybody else (who isn't Voodoo).
Edit: Voodoo may have blinded me by causing my eyes to roll so violently with this post. vvvvvvvv
I *complained bitterly* about? lol News to me. I scoffed at it, and I gave my reasons why.
Also, I didn't even try your arc Kong, for the reasons I already stated.
Wait, AND you don't have a good story for it? awesome. Try not to take it so personally.
I've already forgotten about most of you
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I have no problem with defeat alls if they have a story reason, but they're still more tiresome than non-defeat-alls. Also, a defeat all in a Casino is a different animal than a defeat all in the RWZ portal room unique or (were it available -- is it?) the Atta map.
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It's available. It and the Drek map are the largest ones in the game, in terms of sheer-crap you can put in it.
@Death Conqueror
-Goal for 2011: Survive, stay alive, and continue to thrive.
That stupid map -- Atta and that one Mercedes Shelton warrior mission -- is just about the most obnoxious in the game. Not only is it ridiculously long, it's a cavern which is renowned for walls that capture mobs.
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Try not to take it so personally.
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Yes, I'm glad we're all not taking things too personally (meant for a lot of people, not just one in particular).
We're all having fun running into the reason why Philosophy has a whole branch for debating aesthetics. As usual with most things in Philosophy, it can drive me nutty with how endlessly things can be debated. Oh well.
I'm quite glad you can choose actual map types with the MA, it allows the creator to make sure hostage missions, etc. aren't too ridiculously long and large. Surprisingly, some of the "large" maps you can choose from are not very large, so even going by the description there isn't completely reliable.
Open air maps are probably the trickiest things to use well, I would say, just from their size. The few MA ones I've played have reminded me why I generally hate those maps in the 40s (find the boss and the glowies in the city and around the carnie tents, yay!).
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
The things I'm finding most frustrating are the paltry options for placing where things spawn. Like, if I use the RWZ Portal room, I want the AV to spawn right there in the center platform. I want an AV to be an ambush and not merely an enemy group.
I avoid open air maps as best I can for that reason (even though the arc/TF I'm working on now has outdoor maps for three of five missions).
Yeah, my two biggest wants for MA choices is the ability to have a boss spawn in an ambush, on their own, have two bosses in a mob (as we see all the time in CoX, but cannot do ourselves in MA... I wasted a lot of time trying to get two bosses to spawn together in my arc before realizing you couldn't), and to be able to choose where things spawn. Would certainly make things a lot easier, make writing dialogue easier (I had to adjust some dialogue when I realized that things might not spawn in as I wanted, no matter how linear the map was).
I'm surprised about the lack of "boss" options, actually... it doesn't seem like it would be that hard to put more of them in. And if you were afraid of farming, you could just limit the number of boss spawns you could have in a mission (rather wonder if they might do that somehow with all those farming going on).
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
From what I've seen, a favorite farmer tactic is to make groups that have nothing but bosses. I'm not sure why (better ticket rewards over time maybe?). I haven't really investigated the farming stuff too much, just what I hit when I was trying for the early bird badge.
In the arc I published, there is a group that's nothing but bosses, but A) it's for plot reasons (I needed kheldians, and all the novas and dwarves are bosses), and B) they're only an enemy in one mission, a total of, I think, three mobs.
I did see one arc with an outdoor mission that was nothing but custom EBs, though.
Kill alls are the one thing I promised myself I would never use in a MA mission. Except, maybe, on the tiny ruined office map. Anything bigger than that needs to have multiple paths to success.
In fact, the maximum number of goals I've ever used is eleven, and that was for plot purposes.
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
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Yeah, my two biggest wants for MA choices is the ability to have a boss spawn in an ambush, on their own, have two bosses in a mob (as we see all the time in CoX, but cannot do ourselves in MA... I wasted a lot of time trying to get two bosses to spawn together in my arc before realizing you couldn't), and to be able to choose where things spawn. Would certainly make things a lot easier, make writing dialogue easier (I had to adjust some dialogue when I realized that things might not spawn in as I wanted, no matter how linear the map was).
I'm surprised about the lack of "boss" options, actually... it doesn't seem like it would be that hard to put more of them in. And if you were afraid of farming, you could just limit the number of boss spawns you could have in a mission (rather wonder if they might do that somehow with all those farming going on).
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GP. Make a custom mob group and just put that boss in there. It'll make it spawn multiple copies of him when used.
<sigh> Viv says its no longer "all me".
http://wendy-mags.mybrute.com/
That would work if the boss isn't supposed to be unique/solo, which is what I needed. No problems in making generic bosses spawn in an ambush, etc., especially if you're using a custom group. Not so much if you have a named or unique boss.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
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Sorry Pilgrim, I disagree. If on a team, the map scales/changes completely as well as the number of mobs to defeat. If you want to make your objective "easy", you specify X number of objectives. "Everything" isn't a number.
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Nope. If you specify which map to use, it will not change.
There are some maps that are good for defeat alls (i.e. linear warehouses, linear tech maps, the Bobcat map even though it's a bit big). There are some maps that are horrible for defeat alls (almost anything in Oranbega, the Dreck map, the five tier cake room).
Despite what I've said, I don't mind defeat alls if the map is easy to navigate and there's a reason for it. I hate playing hide and seek with that last MOB that was hidden behind something somewhere at some time.
Arc# 92382 -- "The S.P.I.D.E.R. and the Tyrant" -- Ninjas! Robots! Praetorians! It's totally epic! Play it now!
Arc # 316340 -- "Husk" -- Azuria loses something, a young woman harbors a dark secret, and the fate of the world is in your hands.
Speaking more for the original content. But even for MA stuff, the layout/spawn placements are random, and mobs still increase per team size. There is a better approach to deliver a story aspect than "defeat all".
Funny enough, just last night we had a defeat all. A particular person chimes in with "gay" IIRC. I had to laugh.
edit: Regardless, this is getting retarded. I don't like Defeat alls. I will skip over any MA arc that I see that has that listed because *I* want to. No one is making MA missions *for* me, so my skipping over yours (general) can't possibily be a big deal. If you (again general) want me to play your arc specifically, don't put a defeat all in it. No matter how hard you want to believe your "reasons" for the defeat all fit in, it will not change the simple game mechanic that I despise and associate with a time sink and as taking away how one can choose to play the mission.
If anyone would like to continue this with me, take it to PMs if you must.
I've already forgotten about most of you
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I'm sure there is a thematic reason for "defeat alls" that wouldn't be so bad. After all, everyone knows if you leave just one zombie/vampire/werewolf/infected around you're just asking for trouble.
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Not in my book. It's nothing more than a time sink, a waste of time and it takes away a choice of what one wants to do in a misison.
"Take out all zombies" is fine if the entire map isn't full of zombies. There's a difference.
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Or if the map is a small one like one floor of an office. But even the Devs fall into that trap. Running the "Terra" arc and there are at least 2 defeat alls in multi-story offices. grrrr.
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