People have mentioned sliders, and I've never noticed one while building missions, which I've made a lot of, and a lot of custom bosses, am I just being blind, or by slider, do you mean the "normal, hard, extreme" that grants access to powers in the powersets?
Or do you mean the easy, medium, hard, single, that just dictates what kind of pack of minions a boss will have around it?
Snarky as expected. PLay an Empathy Defender and tell me how much fun EBs are.
Anyways just some rules of thumb for MA building:
1) Never place an EB/AV without an EB/AV ally. Wont always help, but it at least shows you are thikning about the non-l33t builds.
2) Never give a Minion or LT mezzer armor. I though Mind Control/Dark Armor was a really cool concept, until he ate through my mez toons. Did I mention he was a minion, so 2 of them were bafflingly strong. Boss class mezzers with armor are ok.. I mean they are bosses.
3) Non-Mission objectives are cool, but please use sparingly. Ive seen more than one arc were really important clues were tagged to non-mission glowies. Gah. Those should really be additional information, but not required for the story to make sence.
4) Forest maps have no concept of Front/Middle/Back. Its in the tips, and really not said anywhere else. When using Forest maps, plan well because your objectives could end up anywhere (even out of order).
5) Play test. Play test. Play test. Its a real pain to get a group to test an arc, but even after you publish, run it through with larger groups just to check the scaling. Some arcs play great solo, but then go to either end of the spectrum at 8 players.
6) Ranged and Melee please. This is a system level gripe, but you really need one of each in each class of custom group. Not only does this make the group well rounded, it breaks up the monotony of facing the same 2-3 enemies over and over. Fill with stock if you have to, but please, 6 type minimum on custom groups.
Net
Tanker Tuesday #72 Oct 5 @Champion
"I am not sure if my portrayal of being insane is accurate, but damn its fun all the same."
I agree that mission creators need to be careful when designing critters. What sounds cool doesn't always play so well. Test your arcs at the level ranges you intend to play it, and if you feel it doesn't work in the level ranges that it allows, make sure to mention in the description the levels you do recommend. Also, try to test with a variety of ATs, not just mez resistant scrappers and perma doms. 
That said, players need to make some adjustments too. Take a step back and realize that the custom mobs ARE more challenging by their very nature. If you were just cruising through packs of mobs routinely in dev created content, you might not be able to do the same with custom critter packs. Take a step back. Don't jump into the middle of a pack unprepared and pull one or two more over without thinking about it. USE YOUR INSPIRATIONS!!! That last I really want to emphasize, as it is something I do not do in dev content except maybe for a particularly tough end boss or maybe when there are sappers around. With player missions using custom critters, I can use half a tray in some rooms, and fill it back as quick as I use them. Don't forget, you get badges for that! 
As a player, I find myself using a greater variety of tactics when facing custom critters, and it has caused me to enjoy playing characters I had long since considered routine.
[ QUOTE ]
long point short.. too many arcs have custom stuff that is just way to powerfull even on heroic. I realize this tool is new, But i think people should really scale back to start with. Its just no fun not making it past the first door. cant even try it to even get feedback.
If you need a group say soo, if its ment to be hard, let us know. personaly if something is on heroic i shouldnt be face planting with a 50 in 3 hits..
Ive been giving feed back, but i never head any return soo i dont even know if anyone is listening.. i wish people would scale back just a bit, its a game its ment to be fun not a night of running back and forth to the cloner.
Sooo far, one arc that i did like, challenging but not extreme, and fun story.. It takes place on the Rouge islands and contact is oppertive kirkland. I was on a hero soo it was sorta like i was a rouge mercanary, worked for RP atleast
its called
32801, Sharkhead Island and the Circle of banished warriors. (can ya guess the mobs?) Its a magic themed arc and very entertianing. Only issue i had was last mission was a big outdoor map and fidning the bosses was kinda a pain, but atleast the map fit the arcs theme and did make for a nice ending. Just too bad we cant place the bosses better making larger maps easier to use.
soo anyone got some decent arcs out there that arnt just stupid hard? It really is no fun when ya got the mission set to heroic and the mobs are basiclaly no challenge only to get to end boss and you need a tray of large insps to take him down,,
Its just frusterating, espeically when ya see soo many people asking for more space to make more custom mobs.. when to date i think ive found all of a handfull taht had custom mobs that were accually fun to play against, Not some instant death slog fest on heroic.
/endrant
32801
[/ QUOTE ]Maybe its just that you are so used to not getting defeated? I find the current missions we have outside of the MA too wussified for my taste. This game has been dumb down so much since the begining that it no longer posses a challenge outside of STF and the RSF. The harder missions are exactly what we need. It gives us a reason to have a buffer/healer/debuffer around instead of never needing them. It gives a team a reason to want a tanker for a change. The only real problem I see with the system is how the defensive secondaries are handling the mezzing situation. If that gets addressed without some how gutting the challenge of it all, I will be suprised.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
2. They have increased perception
[/ QUOTE ]What's your proof of this? Because aside from critters with +per powers, I haven't noticed behavior any different from normal gameplay with regards to stealth.
[/ QUOTE ]this one is kind of obvious, they can see us from further away. Just play some of the custom missions. Its very easy to see even if they have no perception+ powers. Its almost like they are working together. Like they see their buddy in the next spawn getting creamed so they decide to go ahead and help out instead of looking like a bump on a log. We need this kind of thing on regular missions where critters can run get help. That would make for some interesting battles and it would make people value immobilize and range attacks alot more.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
I have been looking for missions that SAY soloable. That at least gives you a fighting chance. 95% of the missions however don't say anything about difficulty.
Fortunately at this point 5% still gives you like 5 pages (searching for word solo) and over half of those are Don't Solo (which is also good).
We have a tool that will allow players to build missions for other players like themselves. If you like solo build solo, if you only like 8 player teams build for that. Only trick is you need to label your mission AND test it.
Even if you label and test it some may complain it is too hard so a difficulty rating is good too.
If would could get some standard abbreviations together MA would be awesome.
Solo/4P/8P - for recommended number of players,
HD, MD, LD - for high medium low difficulty
AV, AV/Ally - for AV in mission, AV with Ally to help you
EB, EB/Ally - for EB in mission, EB with Ally to help you
RP - In context story (fits into the COH universe)
Farm - If you are building a farm just label it already lol
Something like this anyway. In a very few characters you could give a lot of info. At least till next version.
----------------------------
You can't please everyone, so lets concentrate on me.
[ QUOTE ]
That said, players need to make some adjustments too. Take a step back and realize that the custom mobs ARE more challenging by their very nature. If you were just cruising through packs of mobs routinely in dev created content, you might not be able to do the same with custom critter packs. Take a step back.
[/ QUOTE ]
There have been many, many surprises due to Custom Critters.
In one mission, I never got 50 feet from the front door when the Completely Invisible Foes hit me twice and I was on the floor. I tried again, and only got 30 feet from the door. This had little to no description or dialogue. Not good.
I have run into baddies who laugh off mez, slows, immobs, holds, confuses and/or a lot of damage. And down I went. In most situations, I was able to figure out a way to come back and defeat them, though it was a bit hairy.
Some of the maps pose problems with camera angles. There was an EB type guy at the bottom of some stairs, and due to the camera issues with stairs, it was tough to see who was coming from where, and down I went.
And ambushes. Those can get tough when 1) They arrive from behind without any warning (ie, they don't shout) 2) They are a different character group with a new set of surprising powersets and 3) They are keyed to the defeat of a pretty tough baddie, leaving you in or near the red with most inspirs burned. Still, I was able to come back and defeat these sorts of challenges as well.
A good plot and tight writing cover a multitude of "sins." I take dying in stride in an arc with an interesting angle, a character who invokes empathy and/or some well-worded intros and dialogue. I prefer NOT to die, but I am pretty blase given how tame debt has gotten. I do get quite irritated when there is little to no work given to the writing, the groups or anything else. If your intro consists solely of (and I may get this exact quote wrong, but here goes "LOLZ Cat peeple r scary", you have a one-way ticket to a low rating with your killer custom critters in my book.
I think the overall point is valid: Often some tough MA critters simply present a fresh challenge. I did not take Nosferatu down the first time, and there were other baddies that initially ate my lunch. I treat most adversity in MA as a challenge, but junky writing will lead me to conclude it is merely a death trap and nothing more.
"How do you know you are on the side of good?" a Paragon citizen asked him. "How can we even know what is 'good'?"
"The Most High has spoken, even with His own blood," Melancton replied. "Surely we know."
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
2. They have increased perception
[/ QUOTE ]What's your proof of this? Because aside from critters with +per powers, I haven't noticed behavior any different from normal gameplay with regards to stealth.
[/ QUOTE ]this one is kind of obvious, they can see us from further away. Just play some of the custom missions. Its very easy to see even if they have no perception+ powers. Its almost like they are working together. Like they see their buddy in the next spawn getting creamed so they decide to go ahead and help out instead of looking like a bump on a log. We need this kind of thing on regular missions where critters can run get help. That would make for some interesting battles and it would make people value immobilize and range attacks alot more.
[/ QUOTE ]
It may be kind of obvious, but...
Its not obviously consistent. Facing enemies without +perception I have found custom critters much easier to snipe and pull just one or two from the group rather than the entire spawn. Its pretty much a subjective observation, but at this point that's all I can offer.
[ QUOTE ]
I prefer NOT to die, but I am pretty blase given how tame debt has gotten.
[/ QUOTE ]
Besides, what else can you use that patrol xp for when you're running MA
[ QUOTE ]
if you can't solo a mission on heroic, maybe you need to learn 2 play?
[/ QUOTE ]
Have you like, actually played the custom missions? Because even on heroic, a boss can be designed with full defense, full mezz protection, and a huge array of attacks. Much much more difficult than normal heroic game content.
Arc ID#30821, A Clean Break
The only problem with defeating the Tsoo is that an hour later, you want to defeat them again!
"Life is just better boosted!" -- LadyMage
"I'm a big believer in Personal Force Field on a blaster. ... It's your happy place." -- Fulmens
If I play a arc with too many EB's or AV's with no real reason...I 1 star it. They are way overdone. Make good solid arcs with a final boss/eb/av fight. at least make it have some thought put into it.
Lots of 50's yada yada. still finding fun things to do.
Cthulhu loves you, better start running
I�! I�! Gg�gorsch�a�bha egurtsa�ar�ug d� Dalhor! Cthluhu fthagn! Cthluhu fthagn!
You are in a maze of twisty little passages
[ QUOTE ]
Have you like, actually played the custom missions? Because even on heroic, a boss can be designed with full defense, full mezz protection, and a huge array of attacks. Much much more difficult than normal heroic game content.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, a Boss can be created, and usually is created, who is far too powerful for the 5-10 range. At that level, the dev created critters usually have a very limited power set, but if you create a Boss with Hard or Extreme difficulty, you will have a level 5 Boss with level 5 hit points -- and Unstoppable. (or the like)
I'm trying to make my arc playable at all levels, but when I ran through it at low level, I quickly realized that the ally I added was considerably more powerful compared to me than she had been at level 32. And if an ally was that much more powerful, I knew the custom bosses would be, too. Fortunately, I think the two will cancel each other out.
[ QUOTE ]
There are probably a couple of different dynamics in play: [...] A Boss of Death in a thoughtful, creative arc gets a pass from me as long as it fits in the story. A Boss of Death in a content-free arc gets a poor rating and a punch-out.
[/ QUOTE ]
I can think of one other reason, although I have yet to run into it, and I don't know that I would dare to try it myself:
1) The GM WANTS you to die for plot reasons. I.e., he's going to throw you in a cell you have to get out of. Not sure if that is even in this version of the MA yet, though. Or, you need some sort of secret villain killing weapon and need to run from the AV until you find it.
The only reason I'm hesitant to even try this is that too many people would see that as a challenge for their uber tricked out character, and defeat my AV when I wasn't intending for him to be beaten. Possibly even breaking my mission and making it impossible to finish. Ah, well.
I just thought of another tip when creating a boss. For players, missing is not fun. Making a boss with extreme Super Reflexes results in a near impossible to hit boss. It sounds good on paper, might even fit the character you're building for the Arc, but plain and simple, missing = no fun.
I played an arc where the owner made a boss with extreme SR. With my level 39 BS/WP scrapper, with 2x level 40 ACC IOs in all attacks, and with BU up, I had less than 10% chance to hit. I spent maybe 2 minutes whiffing, with the very rare hit that was quickly regenerated by the boss. Then I quit the arc, gave it a 1-star, and sent a comment to the owner.
The next day they replied to my comment, apparently it was a mistake on their part to put the SR at extreme. They said they tweaked it, if I could remember what the arc was, I'd play it again, it looked pretty interesting what little I saw of it.
I think that you'd find that a boss that has impossibly high resistance would "feel" better than one with an impossibly high defense. But that could just be my opinion.
Help make America #1 in Broadband: www.broadband.gov
Take the survey/test (like a Census for Broadband): http://broadband.gov/qualitytest/about/
The real problem I have with the current MA content is not that some of it is harder than standard PVE content or should only be solo'ed by purpled out scrappers - its that there is no real way to tell how hard something is going to be just from the ARC description. I don't mind having to turn down my difficulty level from the one I use for PvE content but I hate having to start an arc - die a couple of times to find out how hard it it, then go find a NPC to turn down my mission level. Almost worse is when I have just turned down my mission level for one arc and then the next one I play is a lot closer to standard PvE settings and I am now bored because it is too easy.
Basically the real problem is that, unlike dev created content, we have no objective system for describing the difficulty level of an arc. I have played two different arcs that have roughly the same description and been bored to tears in one - slaughtered in the other and with the same character. I recognize that my corruptor might have problems with something my brute can practically ignore - but when I can practically ignore the enemies in one arc and suck down an entire tray of inspirations in the next one (and still die) then I get a bit frustrated.
Globals: @Midnight Mystique/@Magik13
[ QUOTE ]
The real problem I have with the current MA content is not that some of it is harder than standard PVE content or should only be solo'ed by purpled out scrappers - its that there is no real way to tell how hard something is going to be just from the ARC description.
[/ QUOTE ]
It sounds like some of the MA designers are actually playtesting their arcs with purpled out scrappers. heh.
A Mission i made sufferd from an ambush problem
The problem is that the ambushes in the game are set to be infinite int he mission architect....whihc means they keepo coming....
And i had some tough boss types show up....but they kept multiplying...=O_O=
I actualy was able to crash the architect server...at least i think it was me...as i decided to make a gigantic spawn of 500 from an ambush and kept going beyond that to see what would happen.
ANywise after i got feedback i first unpublished becasue i ddint know what to do.....i then went and fixed it....i ended up having to redo alot becasue bugs kept pooping up...
Everything fromt he boss for no reason appearing at the front of the mission...in addition to being in the back......to ambushes sedning 6 copies of the same thing at the same time....to just plain weirdness from the architect system
ANywise i persoanly went to the trouble of fixing stuff when people send me feedback....
I want other players to have fun with the mission i made...
I even went so far to sugesst a team....but most everyone just solos my stuff....
I persoanly soloed my own stuff....even when it was bugged....and soloed it again when people told me stuff to check it....i then saw the problem that appeared from no where and fixed it....but go figure.....
Most people dont want to replay the mission so i guess thats ok.....
The whole front/middle/back thing is messed up. Things I place in the back end up in the middle before things I placed in the middle, etc.
On topic - I ran into an AV the other day that dealt enough damage in a single blow to put my level 38 Dark tank (auto-exemp'd to 30) on the ground. I never even had a chance to trigger my heal, I was just dead. I encountered him just inside the entrance. *waves to waiter* Check please!
[ QUOTE ]
if you can't solo a mission on heroic, maybe you need to learn 2 play?
[/ QUOTE ]
Ohh that must be it.. cause being one shot on a scrapper by a stalker is me not knowing how to play..
there are bosses that can drop tanks in 2 hits, guess the tank should learn to play too huh?
but outside of that, I think part of the prob now is people are making stuff for IO'd out 50's, and then making arcs that are ment for lower lvls, yet tested with the exempt 50's
I think now we got dual builds, maybe some MA creators should use a second build and just SO it if they are meaning for the arc to be playable at lower lvls
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if you can't solo a mission on heroic, maybe you need to learn 2 play?
[/ QUOTE ]
Ohh that must be it.. cause being one shot on a scrapper by a stalker is me not knowing how to play..
there are bosses that can drop tanks in 2 hits, guess the tank should learn to play too huh?
but outside of that, I think part of the prob now is people are making stuff for IO'd out 50's, and then making arcs that are ment for lower lvls, yet tested with the exempt 50's
I think now we got dual builds, maybe some MA creators should use a second build and just SO it if they are meaning for the arc to be playable at lower lvls
[/ QUOTE ]If you suck that bad then bring a team. I see nothing wrong with uber bosses. All bosses I have fought so far in the AE are beatable solo. I have yet to find one I couldnt beat. Now EB and AVs thats something totally different matter since you need to bring a team for those anyways.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if you can't solo a mission on heroic, maybe you need to learn 2 play?
[/ QUOTE ]
Ohh that must be it.. cause being one shot on a scrapper by a stalker is me not knowing how to play..
there are bosses that can drop tanks in 2 hits, guess the tank should learn to play too huh?
but outside of that, I think part of the prob now is people are making stuff for IO'd out 50's, and then making arcs that are ment for lower lvls, yet tested with the exempt 50's
I think now we got dual builds, maybe some MA creators should use a second build and just SO it if they are meaning for the arc to be playable at lower lvls
[/ QUOTE ]If you suck that bad then bring a team. I see nothing wrong with uber bosses. All bosses I have fought so far in the AE are beatable solo. I have yet to find one I couldnt beat. Now EB and AVs thats something totally different matter since you need to bring a team for those anyways.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yea.. i suck that bad... thanks
I have no probs on normal stuff solo.. I can take down EB's, i can solo on unyeilding and invici.. this has nothing to do with my game play..
Heck i ran into a boss on my fire/storm, 50 mind you, and i can stack holds like crazzy and the boss would never hold. I logged on my ice/storm and with the slows of cold i had no prob stacking hold.
This isnt game play, its lack of testing on MA creators.. Just currious how many different toons you tried solo'n all those bosses with.. How many have you tried on a toon you were lvl'n up, Or ones that are just in DO's still..
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The real problem I have with the current MA content is not that some of it is harder than standard PVE content or should only be solo'ed by purpled out scrappers - its that there is no real way to tell how hard something is going to be just from the ARC description.
[/ QUOTE ]
It sounds like some of the MA designers are actually playtesting their arcs with purpled out scrappers on Heroic/Villainous (Challenge Level 1). heh.
[/ QUOTE ]
Fixed it for ya.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if you can't solo a mission on heroic, maybe you need to learn 2 play?
[/ QUOTE ]
Ohh that must be it.. cause being one shot on a scrapper by a stalker is me not knowing how to play..
there are bosses that can drop tanks in 2 hits, guess the tank should learn to play too huh?
but outside of that, I think part of the prob now is people are making stuff for IO'd out 50's, and then making arcs that are ment for lower lvls, yet tested with the exempt 50's
I think now we got dual builds, maybe some MA creators should use a second build and just SO it if they are meaning for the arc to be playable at lower lvls
[/ QUOTE ]If you suck that bad then bring a team. I see nothing wrong with uber bosses. All bosses I have fought so far in the AE are beatable solo. I have yet to find one I couldnt beat. Now EB and AVs thats something totally different matter since you need to bring a team for those anyways.
[/ QUOTE ]
Now that is just not recognition of what Heroic/Villainous (Challenge Level 1) Difficulty is suppose to be. Challenge Level 1 Difficulty is suppose to be the "wuss"(anyone got a better word for that?) setting. Most mission in CoX are really designed around an "Average" character being able to solo a mission on Challenge Level 2 with Basic Enhancements (Training, Duals, or Singles). The whole purpose of the difficulty slider IS to allow individual players to increase or decrease the difficulty to a level on par with both their character's capabilities and their own competence with that character.
If a mission is designed to be by default, lethal and greif-stricken on the Challenge Level 1, it will be completely undoable at any higher challenge level setting, even if a team is brought along. That will completely negate any other factors in or about the mission arc and make it pointless.
I like to Play Test my own mission while on Challenge Level 4. Why? Because that is the setting I play CoX at typically for my Level 50's and I have a good feel for what is going to be overkill and what is not. It also compensates for the fact that my favorite characters to play have had time to acquire choice enhancements, and that I am very comfortable in how they work. I figure any "lesser" (meant non-offensively) character and/or player can easily then tone down the difficulty simply by choosing a lower setting more suitable to them. In that way I hope to obtain balance in my MA Arcs.
if you can't solo a mission on heroic, maybe you need to learn 2 play?