Discussion: Issue 14: Mission Architect - FAQ
By
8_Ball,
Posted on: 2009-02-26 13:02 in Developers' Corner
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So the characters in my superhero virtual reality game can play a superhero virtual reality game... <head esplodes> 
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Can you make a mission, where your character has to make a mission? 
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hmm...
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
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I have a question that I think I can keep short and concise.
The Mission Architect appears to be limited to some kind of virtual reality propagated by Architect Entertainment. What is the "reality" impact of this? Does that mean that all missions we create are all locked within the AE building and essentially "not real?" Does that mean we can't pretend that the storyline we made is actually real, rather than just a work of fiction within fiction?
That could be both good and bad, I suppose. On the one hand, it kind of bugs me that my duel between my namesake hero and his signature villain won't be "real." On the other hand, then I don't have to worry about writing some stupid, impossible plot and have it disproved by canon because it's not "real."
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Since I am more than likely going to use the Mission Architect for character origin and back story I will wind up defining it as using virtual reality to retell my character's past adventures.
"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull
"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat
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Will the MA affect Defeat badges? If I make a mission with the Cabal, can a villian earn the defeat cabal badge?
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No, No.
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Sorry pohsyb, but you just killed any interest I had in the MA.
It was the perfect opportunity to fix several mistakes and oversights re: Defeat Badges, but now? Meh. No real interest in it. That's not to say I don't recognize and appreciate the fact that a LOT of work has went into it, but two steps forward, one back IMO.
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If we are able to make maps just to get badges easily, what is the point of badges in the first place?
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Not getting into it again, but you still have to defeat <x> number for them. There's no difference between beating 1000 monkies on Monkey Island or defeating 1000 monkies in a MA map, you've still beaten 1000 monkies. The point of them is to show that you have beaten <x> number, the badge makes no distinction on how, when, why, or where you defeated them.
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Right, meaning badges really are meaningless.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Can we add to the map and use lockable doors, ala the ones in the Frostfire mission, in order to force players to complete objectives in a certain order?
For instance, help person A invent X (click glowie) on floor one, get key when finished, open door use 'vators, defeat boss on floor two?
How does naming work for our villians and npcs? What happens if we want to use a name that's already taken by a player? For example, I might want to insert some of my own characters into an arc, is this possible? Obviously we won't necessarily own a particular name across all servers so how would this be dealt with?
thx
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And the point is that the damage is already being done. I'm one of the people playing games with the market, it is part of the game I enjoy. I don't enjoy a group of people benefiting from information that I don't have.
The fact that the Market has moved based on changes in I-13 and I-14 prove that the information is not staying in the Closed Beta. So essentially, people who either A) Should be testing content, or B) Shouldn't know what is going on in Closed Beta but have been told something from someone who broke the NDA, get to have an advantage in the market mini-game.
I know that Open Beta will happen, I know that it is still possible to make Inf in the market before the issue comes. That is absolutely 100% not the point.
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As more people use Merits and Ske-Ball Tickets to get the things they actually want instead of relying on random drops, the market demand for some items will go up. The "upside" is that the demand for what most would consider "trash items" would go up, as there would be fewer "undesireable" drops being awarded. Where, normally, these things were so plentiful that they were either being sold on the market for peanuts, or sold to the vendors because it was more profitable. The "downside" is that the demand for the "good stuff" goes down as people perceive it as cheaper to buy through Merits than through the market. In order to compensate, sellers must lower their asking price, making these things available to a wider range of people, and demand will rise again (more people buying at a lower price, as oppsoed to fewer people buying at a higher price). Continued use of these systems may bring a sort of equilibrium as opposed to the wild spikes and valleys that exist among the Recipe and Salvage pools.
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It is impossible to deny, that people who were buying Purple's for 35mil during the last Closed Beta, had an obvious advantage over people buying them at the 55mil price they went to when it went open. In terms of market speculating (this issue I am concerned with here, as it affects what I like to do in the game), they were able to make more profit, and invest more with a lower risk/reward profile, than someone who didn't have that info.
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Forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't defeating level 50+ enemies still the only way to get Purples? I was under the understanding that Purples were not available for Merits, which means that the fluctuation in market price for those Purples that you are complaining about has nothing to do with Merits and Issue 13 (unless the only people buying said Purples were the hardcore PVPers who left and their farming toons). If a player is supposed to be able to run Architect from 1-50 and be able to get the same rewards, There is a good chance that Purples will be available for Ske-Ball tickets, but I expect the price to be almost prohibitively high.
The market fluctuates, based on supply and demand. It just happens. I was selling Luck Charms for 60,000 on Monday, and 25,000 last night. Does that mean that folks from Closed Beta are gaming my Luck Charm market? What do they know that they are unloading all of their Luck Charms and saturating the market?
I understand and appreciate your concern, but you may be seeing things that aren't there. As always, the best way to make and save money on the Market is patience. If you need it now, you bid high. If you can wait, you bid low. If you need the money now, you put it up for less and take the chance that it goes to someone who bid low. If you want max inf., put it up for max inf. and wait. That Purple that you sold for 55 million last month will eventually sell for 55 million again.
New story arcs coming soon (ARC IDs will be aded when I finish the arc):
So, you want to join the Hellions? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
Sparks & Steel (level 5-20 Heroic arc)
and
So you want to join the Skulls? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
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This is a bit misleading. You can chose 2 powersets that include almost all powersets available to players, but you can mix-match them in ways not available to players. (Ex: Fire Blast + Invulnerability ).
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When are we as players going to be able to do this?
I have a Dark Melee/Devices Scrapper that would like to be made.
And a Dark Blast/Super Relfex Corruptor that would like some Playtime.
I know it will be close to never but it is nice to dream.
"Yes, winning all the time can be boring."
-Knight_Chill
"It's amazing how well you can put up with endurance issues if you hide them under a large enough pile of bodies."
-Spiritchaser speaking on Dom Revamp
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Can a "published" arc be edited by the owner? If so, does the arc's rating and status get reset?
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Yes, its called a re-publish and it will preserve ratings info.
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I'm sure beta testers are all over this, but doesn't that mean you could make a good arc, get good ratings, then change it to be full of porn and spam and upload it again? I've been wondering how you would handle the republishing thing, because any way you go with it seems full of pot holes.
Avatar: "Cheeky Jack O Lantern" by dimarie
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Right, meaning badges really are meaningless.
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They only have the meaning that YOU are attaching to them. Nothing more. They are there to show what you have beaten or where you have been.
YOU are attaching more meaning to them then they actually have.
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Right, meaning badges really are meaningless.
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They only have the meaning that YOU are attaching to them. Nothing more. They are there to show what you have beaten or where you have been.
YOU are attaching more meaning to them then they actually have.
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Apparently my sarcasm was missed. I should have added a smiley.
EDIT: And if you really believe that then it shouldn't matter whether you can use the MA to create farm missions for them.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Skimming, so if I missed this, my apologies.
Can we set the mission *start* point elsewhere?
For instance, you pick a Council map - but start the player in one of the cells?
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Also, your playerbase is by and large pretty mature. Telling everyone "Yes, you will be able to buy Pool A,BC,D,E and Purple Recipes as well as Randoms at the Ticket Vendor", and then at some later date deciding you don't want C and D in there, wouldn't cause the kind of chaos you seem to think it would. Especially if you just plainly stated that you use that information at your own risk, that it could change, many of us are adults here and can quite easily deal with that.
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Experience has demonstartated that many of us aren't that mature. Whenever the devs announce something with the caveat: It may change, and it does... well... there's alota screaming. I too would like the information, but I can accept a position where in it's better to insulate oneself from possible fallout as long as possible.
In a few weeks Beta will open up (hopefully) and we'll have all the info we need (with the standard caveats). We're just gonna have to ride out the storm of people playing havoc with the market 
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I would like an example of this experience that has shown us. As far as I can tell none exist.
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Skills system. Which got morphed into Inventions.
City Vault.
Badges.
Cathedral of Pain.
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Forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't defeating level 50+ enemies still the only way to get Purples? I was under the understanding that Purples were not available for Merits, which means that the fluctuation in market price for those Purples that you are complaining about has nothing to do with Merits
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Yes, defeating level 50+ enemies is still the only way to get purples. They are not available for merits. But everything else is available for merits, which caused a flow of influence from pool C recipes to purple recipes. The inflation was inevitable. I knew about it in time to buy a bunch of recipes at 40 million each which I could easily sell for 60 million now, maybe 70. I was planning to hold out for 80 million, but if I14 will make purples purchaseable with tickets, then I had better sell my purples right now. People in my position who already have that information have a distinct advantage over me.
I'm not going to cry about it, but Ogon is absolutely right when he talks about the market.
(On the other hand, Ogon, I think you're way off when you talk about the playerbase. Posi made one offhand comment early last year about how I13 might be called "all your base are belong to us" and there are still people griping that the devs lied to them and ripped them off and slapped them in the face because I13 didn't have very many base changes, and not all of the changes were improvements.)
Avatar: "Cheeky Jack O Lantern" by dimarie
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Right, meaning badges really are meaningless.
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They only have the meaning that YOU are attaching to them. Nothing more. They are there to show what you have beaten or where you have been.
YOU are attaching more meaning to them then they actually have.
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Apparently my sarcasm was missed. I should have added a smiley.
EDIT: And if you really believe that then it shouldn't matter whether you can use the MA to create farm missions for them.
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Fixing prior mistakes re: defeat badges, the "gotta catch them all" mindset for 1 villain and 1 hero, unlocking weapons for either side, and getting titles that wouldn't otherwise be attainable, those are the reasons why I'd like them to count.
I make no claim that a defeat badge is somehow "special". Beyond unlockables and titles, they only matter for two of my characters. If it's any char other than them, I just don't care whether I get them or not.
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Right, meaning badges really are meaningless.
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They only have the meaning that YOU are attaching to them. Nothing more. They are there to show what you have beaten or where you have been.
YOU are attaching more meaning to them then they actually have.
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Apparently my sarcasm was missed. I should have added a smiley.
EDIT: And if you really believe that then it shouldn't matter whether you can use the MA to create farm missions for them.
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Fixing prior mistakes re: defeat badges, the "gotta catch them all" mindset for 1 villain and 1 hero, unlocking weapons for either side, and getting titles that wouldn't otherwise be attainable, those are the reasons why I'd like them to count.
I make no claim that a defeat badge is somehow "special". Beyond unlockables and titles, they only matter for two of my characters. If it's any char other than them, I just don't care whether I get them or not.
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I'd RATHER they FIX those prior mistakes, not use MA as a palliative for them (for instance the absurdity of putting pvp bages in some villain accolades, when heroes don't have to).
Ofcourse you assume the devs see those things as mistakes.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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This is a bit misleading. You can chose 2 powersets that include almost all powersets available to players, but you can mix-match them in ways not available to players. (Ex: Fire Blast + Invulnerability ).
Not as great of a bullet point, I know. We would love to expand this system further, but we cannot by release.
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That's alright, pohsyb. I'll just keep hoping we get access to Kheld powers eventually. But being able to mix and match from powersets that normall wouldn't go together will be fairly interesting in its own right and let us generate some truly unique foes.
Thanks for the answer!
"Yes, yes this is a fertile land and we will thrive. And we shall rule over this land, and call it... ... This Land."
Virtue:
Main: Mikuruneko (50, Katana/Regen Scrapper)
Alts: Many
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Right, meaning badges really are meaningless.
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They only have the meaning that YOU are attaching to them. Nothing more. They are there to show what you have beaten or where you have been.
YOU are attaching more meaning to them then they actually have.
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Apparently my sarcasm was missed. I should have added a smiley.
EDIT: And if you really believe that then it shouldn't matter whether you can use the MA to create farm missions for them.
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Fixing prior mistakes re: defeat badges, the "gotta catch them all" mindset for 1 villain and 1 hero, unlocking weapons for either side, and getting titles that wouldn't otherwise be attainable, those are the reasons why I'd like them to count.
I make no claim that a defeat badge is somehow "special". Beyond unlockables and titles, they only matter for two of my characters. If it's any char other than them, I just don't care whether I get them or not.
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I'd RATHER they FIX those prior mistakes, not use MA as a palliative for them (for instance the absurdity of putting pvp bages in some villain accolades, when heroes don't have to).
Ofcourse you assume the devs see those things as mistakes.
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Good luck getting them to "fix those mistakes". Much less acknowledge them as such.
It only took three+ years of logic, whining, and arguments to get them to admit Empath was "broken".
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Forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't defeating level 50+ enemies still the only way to get Purples? I was under the understanding that Purples were not available for Merits, which means that the fluctuation in market price for those Purples that you are complaining about has nothing to do with Merits
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Yes, defeating level 50+ enemies is still the only way to get purples. They are not available for merits. But everything else is available for merits, which caused a flow of influence from pool C recipes to purple recipes. The inflation was inevitable. I knew about it in time to buy a bunch of recipes at 40 million each which I could easily sell for 60 million now, maybe 70. I was planning to hold out for 80 million, but if I14 will make purples purchaseable with tickets, then I had better sell my purples right now. People in my position who already have that information have a distinct advantage over me.
I'm not going to cry about it, but Ogon is absolutely right when he talks about the market.
(On the other hand, Ogon, I think you're way off when you talk about the playerbase. Posi made one offhand comment early last year about how I13 might be called "all your base are belong to us" and there are still people griping that the devs lied to them and ripped them off and slapped them in the face because I13 didn't have very many base changes, and not all of the changes were improvements.)
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Thanks for explaining how Merits did indeed influence the price of Purples (and how that would have been obvious to anyone that is active in the market and was also in Closed Beta), you saved me writing that up.
As for the other part, there are two considerations.
1. The information is already getting out.
Obviously, by looking at the market pre I-13, and now pre I-14, there is no question that the information we are talking about is not staying contained in the closed beta. In that case not only are you allowing those people to take advantage of the inequality of information, but you are essentially punishing people who do follow the rules. Since people aren't following the rules, the information gets out anyways, why not give access to it to people who are doing what they are supposed to, instead of, by default, only allowing people who aren't doing what they are supposed to, profit from it?
2. Comparisons like City Vault, for example, don't really make sense.
First of all, the examples listed show that this isn't much of an iron-clad rule, they make statements about things that don't end up happening, and the world keeps spinning. But that is not what I am asking for.
I am talking only about a very specific type of information, changes to systems that will have a widespread and predictable impact on the market. We haven't had many of these, but they seem to be coming more frequently. In most cases the type of specific information they would be giving (there will be a ticket system, there will be a ticket vendor, it will sell from Pools X,Y,Z) isn't at all the same as introducing an entirely new feature then not producing it.
There was next to no chance that the ticket system wasn't going to be used, the ticket vendor was going to be there, the only changes that might happen probably pertain to exactly what rewards are in there and their specific costs. If those specifics changed, but the system was still in place, it is hard to imagine the outcry would be anything like announcing a brand new feature then not producing it at all.
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Do our arcs leave souvenirs?
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You can make souvenir clues.
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Can you make a souvenir/clue that is independent of mission completion or success? For example, hide an item in a sekrit location in your map, and if a player finds that item, they get the souvenir... but we wouldn't want to make that required for mission/arc completion, as it would let everyone get what should be an Easter Egg, or make the mission too annoying.
Similarly, could we put a conditional souvenir, such as "Saviour" if you managed to keep Fusionette alive in a mission against 3 EBs? Or to rescue a hostage who is being attacked soon as you enter the room, and has the HPs of a MM tier 1 minion?
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Is the cake a lie?
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The cake is a lie. Only the cookie is the truth.
That blue thing running around saying "Cookies are sometimes food" is Praetorian Cookie Monster!
Shoot on sight, please.
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This is a bit misleading. You can chose 2 powersets that include almost all powersets available to players, but you can mix-match them in ways not available to players. (Ex: Fire Blast + Invulnerability ).
Not as great of a bullet point, I know. We would love to expand this system further, but we cannot by release.
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That's alright, pohsyb. I'll just keep hoping we get access to Kheld powers eventually. But being able to mix and match from powersets that normall wouldn't go together will be fairly interesting in its own right and let us generate some truly unique foes.
Thanks for the answer!
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Or truly unique helper/ally characters in missions.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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Right, meaning badges really are meaningless.
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They only have the meaning that YOU are attaching to them. Nothing more. They are there to show what you have beaten or where you have been.
YOU are attaching more meaning to them then they actually have.
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Apparently my sarcasm was missed. I should have added a smiley.
EDIT: And if you really believe that then it shouldn't matter whether you can use the MA to create farm missions for them.
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Fixing prior mistakes re: defeat badges, the "gotta catch them all" mindset for 1 villain and 1 hero, unlocking weapons for either side, and getting titles that wouldn't otherwise be attainable, those are the reasons why I'd like them to count.
I make no claim that a defeat badge is somehow "special". Beyond unlockables and titles, they only matter for two of my characters. If it's any char other than them, I just don't care whether I get them or not.
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I'd RATHER they FIX those prior mistakes, not use MA as a palliative for them (for instance the absurdity of putting pvp bages in some villain accolades, when heroes don't have to).
Ofcourse you assume the devs see those things as mistakes.
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Good luck getting them to "fix those mistakes". Much less acknowledge them as such.
It only took three+ years of logic, whining, and arguments to get them to admit Empath was "broken".
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Keep in mind that was probably because risk vs reward had a different meaning when he who must not be named was in charge *cough* Jack *cough*
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Will we get the use of props? Like tanks, cars and debris that you see in certain missions?
Classic Dungeon Crawl Arc ID: 2232-"A satirical look at your average dungeon"
Down the Rabbit Hole Arc IDs: 24346 24397-"Rescue a little girl from an insidious dream invader."
Can we use any of the unique TF/SF maps in the MA?
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The problem to me is if you let people have 10 arcs they will make 10 arcs, reguardless of quality. Then anyone who wants to play the arcs will have a tougher time actually finding these missions, which isn't good for anybody.
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But that's when having a rating system comes into its own. If you can sort the billion arcs by average rating, and filter your sort to "arcs developed in the last week", for example, then you'll get all the newer arcs that have been rated 4-5 stars right up top. This makes having a 4 star rating an advantage instead of a disappointment. As it is, either you get 5 stars or you have to consider putting a bullet in your 4 star arc that gets a few hundred people playing it a week because you want to put something new up.
No matter what happens, there's going to be a ton of dross. If getting 5 stars is ultimately unattainable, you either sacrifice creating new content to keep your popular but old content up or you yank down something people like and give up any chance of building more than a couple of related arcs.
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But your argument only works if people play your arc. A rating system only works if people play your stuff, and people are less likely to play your stuff if they can't find it under a wave of stuff, a lot of which being substandard. A small number of arcs per people makes it more likely that your arc will be found, and encourages players to spend more time on making great arcs over putting out everything in their head IMO.
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While a small number, hopefully three will ensure people put a real effort into the ones they do, which makes the quality of the system as a whole better and thus makes it more likely people will use it, which then makes it even MORE likely that people will play your story.
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Either you get a strong enough rating to keep your story up high, or you get buried in the masses. There will be hundreds -- thousands -- of story arcs on this thing within two weeks. There will likely be 500 good story arcs copied over from beta on launch day. (And huzzah for that. As a player I'm looking forward to devouring some of these storylines.)
3 arcs is just too limiting. There isn't room to build multiple storylines on a theme, and there isn't room to build multiple one-storyline-themes. I can accept that we might need extraordinary measures to get more. (Vet rewards, redeeming astronomical numbers of tickets, or just plain plunking down cash at the NC barrelhead.) But there should be those options in the game, somewhere.
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I'm sure they'll put in ways eventually, it'll just be a gradual thing. If you let people build up the number of arcs they can have it'd mean that people can build up the number of arcs they can do, but there wont be a tidal wave of them straight away.