Discussion: Issue 14: Mission Architect - FAQ
By
8_Ball,
Posted on: 2009-02-26 13:02 in Developers' Corner
The Devs do not hate farming, per se. They hate farming that is overdone to the point of causing burnout for those people that farm but do not enjoy it, and dissatisfaction among those who do not farm but want the shinies.
They are trying to make content for both farmers and non-farmers. They want farming be viable for those who enjoy it, but not so huge an advantage that you 'have to' farm to get shinies at the 'average' rate.
That's why they seem schizophrenic; they are playing to both crowds.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
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I find their stance to be somewhat schizophrenic when it comes to "farming". On one hand, they implement stuff like aggro/aoe caps, timers on missions, etc. But then on the other hand, they implement stuff like Leader, Purples, Merits, and increase things like the Illusionist badge to levels that are simply ridiculous. "We don't want you to farm, but we are putting in stuff that if you want it in a decent amount of time, you have to farm."
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Its not schizophrenic. The correct statement is "we don't want you to farm, but we are putting in stuff that you might not get in a decent amount of time, by your definition of decent. If you try to farm, we'll take certain steps to stop you, but we might not be able to stop farming without side-effects that are more detrimental to the game than we, the developers, feel is tolerable."
This isn't really all that difficult to understand, even if one disagrees with it.
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I find their stance to be somewhat schizophrenic when it comes to "farming". On one hand, they implement stuff like aggro/aoe caps, timers on missions, etc. But then on the other hand, they implement stuff like Leader, Purples, Merits, and increase things like the Illusionist badge to levels that are simply ridiculous. "We don't want you to farm, but we are putting in stuff that if you want it in a decent amount of time, you have to farm."
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Its not schizophrenic. The correct statement is "we don't want you to farm, but we are putting in stuff that you might not get in a decent amount of time, by your definition of decent. If you try to farm, we'll take certain steps to stop you, but we might not be able to stop farming without side-effects that are more detrimental to the game than we, the developers, feel is tolerable."
This isn't really all that difficult to understand, even if one disagrees with it.
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Definition of "decent":
Nearly five years of playing a character and not even half way to Popular badge.
And yes, their stance is schizophrenic. You may disagree with it, but that's how I see it.
Granted, since it's Arcanaville saying it, by definition everyone else is not just wrong, but wrong. 
I realize no one will agree with me, especially since you are saying I'm wrong.
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I find their stance to be somewhat schizophrenic when it comes to "farming". On one hand, they implement stuff like aggro/aoe caps, timers on missions, etc. But then on the other hand, they implement stuff like Leader, Purples, Merits, and increase things like the Illusionist badge to levels that are simply ridiculous. "We don't want you to farm, but we are putting in stuff that if you want it in a decent amount of time, you have to farm."
[/ QUOTE ]
Its not schizophrenic. The correct statement is "we don't want you to farm, but we are putting in stuff that you might not get in a decent amount of time, by your definition of decent. If you try to farm, we'll take certain steps to stop you, but we might not be able to stop farming without side-effects that are more detrimental to the game than we, the developers, feel is tolerable."
This isn't really all that difficult to understand, even if one disagrees with it.
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Definition of "decent":
Nearly five years of playing a character and not even half way to Popular badge.
And yes, their stance is schizophrenic. You may disagree with it, but that's how I see it.
Granted, since it's Arcanaville saying it, by definition everyone else is not just wrong, but wrong. I realize no one will agree with me, especially since you are saying I'm wrong.
[/ QUOTE ]I agree with you. Some stuff is just stupidly wrong how they did it. Especially the master illusionist thing. I could see if they gave us the ability to set the spawns to give bosses throughout the mission when solo instead of just at the end.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
Is it possible to have a destructible object targetable by enemies and allies that, when destroyed releases an NPC (and possibly a new objective?)
ie, have a battle in a museum that breaks a display and results in releasing a demon or something else?
Thrythlind's Deviant Art Page
"Notice at the end, there: Arcanaville did the math and KICKED IT INTO EXISTENCE." - Ironik on the power of Arcanaville's math
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Each story can have up to five chapters or missions and each mission can hold up to a maximum of 25 achievable goals.
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Are we limited to how many Stories we can have per account. i.e. one story line per char, or one story line per account?
Freedom Horde! Join the Ranks!
3 per account
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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Are we limited to how many Stories we can have per account. i.e. one story line per char, or one story line per account?
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3 Published story arcs per account (each story arc with up to 5 missions). Unlimited numbers of unpublished story arcs (which reside on the local drive of your PC). Publishing a mission uploads from your PC to the MA server into an empty publishing slot. Getting a Published Arc promoted into the Hall of Fame or Dev's Choice will free up that slot for reuse.
Edit: to make things a bit clearer
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Definition of "decent":
Nearly five years of playing a character and not even half way to Popular badge.
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Subjective. Ad misericordiam.
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And yes, their stance is schizophrenic. You may disagree with it, but that's how I see it.
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Begging the question.
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Granted, since it's Arcanaville saying it, by definition everyone else is not just wrong, but wrong. I realize no one will agree with me, especially since you are saying I'm wrong.
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Poisoning the well.
The whole counterargument is based upon logical fallacies, including a slippery slope and hasty generalizations.
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Are we limited to how many Stories we can have per account. i.e. one story line per char, or one story line per account?
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3 Published story arcs per account (each story arc with up to 5 missions). Unlimited numbers of unpublished story arcs (which reside on the local drive of your PC). Publishing a mission uploads from your PC to the MA server into an empty publishing slot. Getting a Published Arc promoted into the Hall of Fame or Dev's Choice will free up that slot for reuse.
Edit: to make things a bit clearer
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Thx
Edit: Wonder if you will be able to purchase more story arcs with tickets? Eventually?
Freedom Horde! Join the Ranks!
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Edit: Wonder if you will be able to purchase more story arcs with tickets? Eventually?
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Too easy, I think. Maybe as an reward.
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Definition of "decent":
Nearly five years of playing a character and not even half way to Popular badge.
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Subjective. Ad misericordiam.
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So, five years of playing and not getting the badge? You see that as "decent".
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And yes, their stance is schizophrenic. You may disagree with it, but that's how I see it.
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Begging the question.
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Stating my opinion.
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Granted, since it's Arcanaville saying it, by definition everyone else is not just wrong, but wrong. I realize no one will agree with me, especially since you are saying I'm wrong.
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Poisoning the well.
The whole counterargument is based upon logical fallacies, including a slippery slope and hasty generalizations.
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Who, once Arcanaville sayeth they are wrong, has ever been agreed with?
Not to insult him/her, but it seems that once Arcanaville speaks, the argument is done. Nothing further can be said in defense of the opinion that is opposing his/her stance.
But hey, I never expected anyone to agree with me on anything. Ever. I can state my opinion, my reasons, and my interpretation of those reasons. Some people can see a 5+ year objective as "reasonable" and "decent". Others can't.
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Edit: Wonder if you will be able to purchase more story arcs with tickets? Eventually?
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Too easy, I think. Maybe as an reward.
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IIRC, back when the architect was going to be part of i13, there was mention that if an arc of yours graduated to the "hall of fame" or some sort of distinction, it would no longer count as one of your published arcs, freeing up a slot for you to publish another.
A dynamic along these lines would allow for quality content providers--those of us who end up really finding a knack and fire for creating fun, interesting and varied arcs--to keep producing.
In some ways, as CoX continues to age, I see it evolving into a story space as much as a game, where we the players provide the majority of new content in it's silver years. (Granted I see that being a few years off. Think of Ultima Online at 10 and later...)
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What happens to arcs if the player who created them goes inactive?
Can trial accounts use the MA? ( Better not... )
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I'm still on my first cup of coffee, and haven't been able to kindle the CT reactor yet this morning, so apologies if it's obvious to everyone but me, but what am I missing? What's the problem with letting trial accounts use the MA?
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Freak Slicer: Oh no! It's Captain Dynamic!
Tank Smasher: Don't worry! We'll mop the floor with him! He can't afford all the best enhancements like he could if he'd only bought 10 million influence from www.stupidgoldsellingwebsite.com for only $10!
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OMG it's diabolical, I never even thought of that...
I'm torn between amusement at the idea and horror...
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There is a horrific relevance to this that must be address!
[/ QUOTE ]You know, if it's an entertaining enough plug, the arc might not be such a terrible inconvenience. If it's annoyingly stupid, the arc will get reported into oblivion so fast tachyons would be required to perceive its published duration.
All that is planned fails. All that is born dies.
All that is built crumbles. This will always be true.
But memories remain, And that is beautiful.
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IIRC, back when the architect was going to be part of i13, there was mention that if an arc of yours graduated to the "hall of fame" or some sort of distinction, it would no longer count as one of your published arcs, freeing up a slot for you to publish another.
[/ QUOTE ]I believe it was said that getting into the Dev's Choice category would do this, but I doubt the devs would deign to consider arcs outside of the Hall of Fame.
All that is planned fails. All that is born dies.
All that is built crumbles. This will always be true.
But memories remain, And that is beautiful.
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IIRC, back when the architect was going to be part of i13, there was mention that if an arc of yours graduated to the "hall of fame" or some sort of distinction, it would no longer count as one of your published arcs, freeing up a slot for you to publish another.
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This is still the case.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
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[Disclaimer]
I only read Pohsyb's posts (linked from teh Dev Digest page), and no, i'm not reading through 220 pages, so this may or may not have been asked already.
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So, they're allowing XP and Inf. Rewards for mobs killed in custom missions? Apparently, the idea of PL'ing must not matter to the Devs anymore.
I can see it now: not only will someone rez the "Defeat Dreck" mission AND the Werewolf farms from way back when . Now we won't even need bridges to do it... it'll be plenty fast just to SK the lowbie yourself, and
I guarantee someone will combine the two concepts, and take it even further:
1. Create a huge, flat, wide open map.
2. Create a custom minion with no attacks, an HP debuff, vulnerability to all damage types (both Def and Res), and then make them rez like freakshow.
3. Commence cleaning up.
We'll have fire blasters one-shotting huge mobs (put loads of spawn points in, very close together) with a single shot of Fireball, meaning they can run it from level 2 on... just creating a new mission each time they outlevel one of the old ones... and they won't need to be reset either, since they can just be quit and restarted, or just finished and restarted. Also, they can bring at least one friend along who might not have a low-level AoE attack, SK them, and PL them while they're at it.
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There is exactly one part of that which has not been stated as impossible.
We canNOT make our own maps.
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K, so people will just use the instanced boomtown map that was used for the original Dreck mission, or the "family farm" instanced map (I think it's instanced steel canyon).
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We canNOT set the spawn points on maps, preexisting or otherwise.
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Duelly noted, thx for the info, however I'm assuming we can still say what mobs are available to spawn, yes? Otherwise, how would we place custom mobs into missions?
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We canNOT assign (as far as I know) single specific powers to a critter.
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From Pohsyb:
This is a bit misleading. You can chose 2 powersets that include almost all powersets available to players, but you can mix-match them in ways not available to players. (Ex: Fire Blast + Invulnerability ).
Not as great of a bullet point, I know. We would love to expand this system further, but we cannot by release.
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In that case, is there something stopping people from choosing two non-attack powersets, or giving them all interruptable pool powers rather than primary/secondaries? (I'm thinking along the lines of Immunes Surgeons... just without the heals)
In short, is there something in place to prevent people from building custom mobs that present no threat at all and are basically just cannon fodder to be chewed up for XP?
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We canNOT (as far as I know) assign buffs or debuffs to a critter.
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Thought more about this-- can we apply static buffs/debuffs like in the PVP zones to missions?
Don't get me wrong... my main purpose here isn't to find an edge to "break" the game through the MA, but rather to play devil's advocate and point out ways that people could break things within the paramaters laid out by the Dev's through the game's design so they can potentially be addressed ahead of time (it all goes back to when I used to make mods for NWN, I'd have friends play them and attempt to "break" things by going out of their way to do things I may not have thought of on my own).
In the past, the Dev's have gone to some length to "discourage" PL'ing and such, and I'd hate to see all that effort go down the drain due to tunnel-vision for how things are "intended" to be used-- after all, I think it's a fair assumption that if something CAN be done, it WILL be done (especially if it provides a major shortcut), regardless of whether or not it meets the dev's intentions.
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Definition of "decent":
Nearly five years of playing a character and not even half way to Popular badge.
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Subjective. Ad misericordiam.
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So, five years of playing and not getting the badge? You see that as "decent". What is your definition of "decent"?
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And yes, their stance is schizophrenic. You may disagree with it, but that's how I see it.
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Begging the question.
[/ QUOTE ]
Stating my opinion.
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Granted, since it's Arcanaville saying it, by definition everyone else is not just wrong, but wrong. I realize no one will agree with me, especially since you are saying I'm wrong.
[/ QUOTE ]
Poisoning the well.
The whole counterargument is based upon logical fallacies, including a slippery slope and hasty generalizations.
[/ QUOTE ]
Who, once Arcanaville sayeth they are wrong, has ever been agreed with?
Not to insult him/her, but it seems that once she/he speaks, the argument is done. Nothing further can be said.
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Since you want to discuss this subject, and it's not necessarily completely on-topic with this thread any longer, I've taken the liberty of starting a new thread here 
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In that case, is there something stopping people from choosing two non-attack powersets
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Yes.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
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In that case, is there something stopping people from choosing two non-attack powersets
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Yes.
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Just like the Cimerora Surgeons 
The fact that you receive ticket bonuses rather than xp bonuses upon Mission Complete in the MArc may make farming non-cost-effective.
We'll see.
No matter what, though, some kind of Farming MArc FotM will emerge. That's okay. The people who farm now will continue to farm, MArc or no. Thy don't have to make the MArc unfarmable, just less farmable than the most farmable Dev mission.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
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Can we force the player to find the mission entrance?
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No
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Just so I'm clear, I mean the added objective of "Find Mission Exit". Is it available to us?
What shall claim a Sky Kings' Ransom?
PPD & Resistance Epic Archetypes
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Will the MA affect Defeat badges? If I make a mission with the Cabal, can a villian earn the defeat cabal badge?
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No, No.
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Sorry pohsyb, but you just killed any interest I had in the MA.
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So the other developers and red names mentioning this weeks ago didn't?
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
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Also, your playerbase is by and large pretty mature. Telling everyone "Yes, you will be able to buy Pool A,BC,D,E and Purple Recipes as well as Randoms at the Ticket Vendor", and then at some later date deciding you don't want C and D in there, wouldn't cause the kind of chaos you seem to think it would. Especially if you just plainly stated that you use that information at your own risk, that it could change, many of us are adults here and can quite easily deal with that.
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Experience has demonstartated that many of us aren't that mature. Whenever the devs announce something with the caveat: It may change, and it does... well... there's alota screaming. I too would like the information, but I can accept a position where in it's better to insulate oneself from possible fallout as long as possible.
In a few weeks Beta will open up (hopefully) and we'll have all the info we need (with the standard caveats). We're just gonna have to ride out the storm of people playing havoc with the market 
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I would like an example of this experience that has shown us. As far as I can tell none exist.
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Skills system. Which got morphed into Inventions.
City Vault.
Badges.
Cathedral of Pain.
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ETAs on issue updates more specific than Late Q1/Early Q2 or Summer of O9, etc.
PvE changes due to PvP.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
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Different folks find different things important. To you it isn't, to me it is. [ QUOTE ]
Right, except we just had an issue with all mostly new badges and pvp. Not as if the devs are ignoring that segment.
Also I don't think its far fetched to expect the devs to not implement the tool to open up farming when they try not to encourage it. Notice i said try.
/shrug.
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I find their stance to be somewhat schizophrenic when it comes to "farming". On one hand, they implement stuff like aggro/aoe caps, timers on missions, etc. But then on the other hand, they implement stuff like Leader, Purples, Merits, and increase things like the Illusionist badge to levels that are simply ridiculous. "We don't want you to farm, but we are putting in stuff that if you want it in a decent amount of time, you have to farm."
"Just had an issue"? If you mean Day Jobs, which no matter what one does, they are at 21 days apiece, and can only be speeded up by finding Double Spots, as an Issue. Day Jobs are in the same boat as Vet badges. Not really here nor there. Sure, they were added, but most won't be done with them till December at the earliest.
I never said they were "ignoring the segment", but by saying YOU don't find it to be important, doesn't mean others don't. I think that they have wasted MASSIVE amounts of time, energy, and effort pandering to the PvP crowd with all the interminable tweaks, fixes, nerfs, revamps, etc. But that's just my opinion and I can understand other people finding it to be important.