Donald Duck comics were banned from Finland because he doesn't wear pants.
You told me something I didnt know Pos, I hope I returned the favor.
Does this mean we'll get a dialog tree if we have Empath we'll get the NPC chat: "I'm sorry about that last hunt... I meant 10 not 100. Silly me and extra 0s."
Must use this subtle hint to my advantage about badging... all to Ironblade's heal farm on Infinity!
Thank you, City of Heroes, for giving me a superhero social network combined with amazingly smooth game play. Petitions signed with realistic expectations.
Interesting stuff. I see lots of potential for doom-calling, but my initial reaction is "that sounds cool".
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Posi,
Thanks for taking the time to address a badge-hunter's concerns. Although I am still a little miffed that I have around 5000 brainstorms sitting on my badge hunter that I was waiting for a rainy day to convert, I can understand that it was too easy. Granted, I think that 10,000 crafts is a little high, so if your solution after datamining is to turn it down to 2500 crafts - something more realistic for new hunters (or people who want to run through this branching you're talking about) to attain, I am ok with that as well.
As it stands, I will continue to craft IOs for my alts using my main badge hunter(s) so that you are better able to realistically predict how we actually craft - without farming.
-Di (592 hero badges, 515 villain badges - and counting!)
There are so many possibilities with this tidbit of info... the fact that badges will actually mean something is VERY nice. I'm very curious to see what comes of this idea.
[ QUOTE ]
Heres a bit of a teaser: We have big plans for these (and other) badges, and we really want them to mean something to your character. If you are in a dialog tree that involves creating something, we have the ability to look at your badges and see if you have taken the effort to prove yourself as a crafter. This effort would be rewarded with special options in the dialog tree that earn you better results, enable you to skip steps, etc. For this system to work, well need them to be a reasonable indicator of the amount of work a crafter has put into crafting. And its not just dialog trees that are going to look at badges, and its not just crafting badges that will be looked at, so you guys can speculate away!
[/ QUOTE ]
This has the potential to be very cool, enabling non combat activities to have an impact on how a character goes through the content.
It also has the potential to crank up my inner powergamer and make me feel like a bunch of new badges besides accolades are now "required" for all of my characters, making the game feel more like work than fun (it's been moving in that direction after Inventions and Day Jobs were added, though I know that's substantially my own fault for having this obsessive tendency).
I promise you that I will try my hardest to view it in the former way, if you try to implement it so that having a badge changes the player's experience as opposed to just giving them an advantage.
It's really cool that you're working on this idea, regardless of how it turns out for me, personally. 
Please try my custom mission arcs!
Legacy of a Rogue (ID 459586, Entry for Dr. Aeon's Third Challenge)
Death for Dollars! (ID 1050)
Dr. Duplicate's Dastardly Dare (ID 1218)
Win the Past, Own the Future (ID 1429)
O.o
::boggles::
[ QUOTE ]
In a recent patch, we removed the ability to have the conversion of old base-salvage to new invention salvage count towards the overall crafting badges. This is a change to the methods I had previously said would count towards earning those overall crafting badges.
The reasoning behind this change was it made these badges a little TOO easy to get, there is a lot of Base Salvage sitting around in storage racks gathering database dust. Crafting the actual base items still count towards the badge (as they always have), its simply the conversion from Base-to-Invention that has been removed from counting.
[/ QUOTE ]
I see.
[ QUOTE ]
Heres a bit of a teaser: We have big plans for these (and other) badges, and we really want them to mean something to your character. If you are in a dialog tree that involves creating something, we have the ability to look at your badges and see if you have taken the effort to prove yourself as a crafter. This effort would be rewarded with special options in the dialog tree that earn you better results, enable you to skip steps, etc. For this system to work, well need them to be a reasonable indicator of the amount of work a crafter has put into crafting. And its not just dialog trees that are going to look at badges, and its not just crafting badges that will be looked at, so you guys can speculate away!
[/ QUOTE ]
Neat idea. But I can't help but feel it's horribly undercut by the fact that a large number of the people out there will have earned these badges by using a technique that was deemed "too easy" and is no longer available to the rest of us.
In essense, you are once again reinforcing the "exploit early" mentality that I so despise. I understand that there's no way to retroactively de-badge people who used salvage conversions as part of their badging. But how is it any more fair to make those of us who have not earned the badges yet play by entirely different rules just because you feel the new system would be more balanced? The fact still remains that plenty of people won't be using that system at all, yet they'll still get the benefits.
-D
Darkonne: Pinnacle's (unofficially) mighty Dark Miasma/Radiation Blast enthusiast!
Be sure to check out this mighty Arc:
#161865 - Aeon's Nemesis
*Swears so much that it would make a truck driver blush* 
My Lego Models http://www.flickr.com/photos/30369639@N07/ lemur lad: God you can't be that stupid... I'm on at the same time as you for once, and not 20 minutes into it you give me something worth petitioning?Lady-Dee: Hey my fat keeps me warm in the winter and shady in the summer.
[ QUOTE ]
Were going to see what this does to the numbers of characters earning the Crafting badges through datamining. If, by the time Issue 14 is getting ready to launch, we see that it is now too hard to achieve those badges, then we will make another change to them (not saying that we will make the conversion count again, but that remains an option on the table in that case.)
[/ QUOTE ]
Unless I14 is way behind schedule (meaning the hopes of I15 for the fifth anniversary are out the window and more so), you aren't going to have enough data to usefully mine.
As I said in another thread, the issue of base salvage conversion wasn't a surprise to anyone paying attention, it was the slimmest glimmer of a sliver lining in the cloud that was this change in salvage that was thrust upon the players. There was discussion that, among all the other reasons that made it such an illconsidered change, it would make the crafting badges so much harder to get (the loss of both refining base salvage into components, and converting invention salvage into base components being a key part of getting the 4th and 5th badges). When it was pointed out that converting the base salvage to brainstorms and brainstorms to invention salvage would count towards the badge, well, that was good for a few people who had access to base storage system and could use it until they ran out.
So if it was suddenly a surprise that, oh wow, this sudden burst of conversion makes it fast for some people to get the badges, well, shame on your people for not reading that it was discussed, and for not thinking of it even before we did.
In the end, it doesn't really matter if the conversion counts or not. Yes, those who had saved up their base salvage or brainstorms for their next badger are frozen out, but in the end, it's a very limited supply. Some people got the badge because of conversion before the patch in question, and if you revert some more people will get it, but it doesn't change anything about how much more impossible you've made the fourth and fifth crafting badges with this illthought change in salvage. The only real annoyance factor is that, even after it was openly discussed and not a hint made that this was not an appropriate thing to do, that one bit of good news with the hassle and annoyance of the change was turned into an evil exploit, so game-rending that it couldn't even be put in a patch note or lo, the servers may explode in a burst of hellfire.
The real solution? Now that you've removed the methods everyone I know used to get the last two crafting badges (base salvage to component, invention salvage to component), the numbers are just too damn high. Lower them. In I14. Don't wait for datamining where the results will be wiped out by those who got the badge before this last patch or still have made most of their progress with the old trading rules, don't make people spend a year or so saying "damn, I'm crafting every day, where is that %@#$#ing Master Craftsman badge". If you doubt me, ask around the office, find out who has Master Craftsman or Fabricator, and ask them how much of their progress was with the methods no longer available.
Right now, the numbers for the five badges are 50, 100, 500, 1000, 10000. Change them to 50, 100, 250, 500, 1000. Yeah, some people who spent the time getting the badges in the hold system will be better off. So? Your future is in the new characters being created now. Don't screw them over out of fear that someone might get a badge they didn't "earn". Even if it might help them avoid a step or two in a future dialog tree.
My arcs are constantly shifting, just search for GadgetDon for the latest.
The world beware! I've started a blog
GadgetMania Under Attack: The Digg Lockout
My only two cents is my immediate reaction is that this was implemented to make us stay longer in the game crafting to get that badge. Almost like damage control.
However, after stepping back and thinking, perhaps I was wrong
Thanks for the heads up, I'm almost to the badge by helping others as it tis :3
-C.A.
[ QUOTE ]
Heres a bit of a teaser: We have big plans for these (and other) badges, and we really want them to mean something to your character. If you are in a dialog tree that involves creating something, we have the ability to look at your badges and see if you have taken the effort to prove yourself as a crafter. This effort would be rewarded with special options in the dialog tree that earn you better results, enable you to skip steps, etc. For this system to work, well need them to be a reasonable indicator of the amount of work a crafter has put into crafting. And its not just dialog trees that are going to look at badges, and its not just crafting badges that will be looked at, so you guys can speculate away!
[/ QUOTE ]
I love you guys.
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
I'm afraid it all just goes to show ya... you reap what you sow. The whole base salvage conversion thing was ill conceived to start with but implemented (over the objection of many) anyway. Now we have a bona fide "mess" with a flip flop on badges (with a potential flip flop to still something else in the near future).
While the explanation is appreciated, I doubt it means a whole lot to the folks who still have to look forward to the "joy" of what can be thousands of mouse clicks...only now with no credit at all for the effort.
Yeah I can see how some people might remain a tad steamed over this.
Hope the "teaser", whatever it turns out to be, makes all the ill will associated with this worthwhile.
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom (or freem?) fighter; just as one man's exploit is another man's feature.
[ QUOTE ]
Right now, the numbers for the five badges are 50, 100, 500, 1000, 10000. Change them to 50, 100, 250, 500, 1000. Yeah, some people who spent the time getting the badges in the hold system will be better off. So? Your future is in the new characters being created now. Don't screw them over out of fear that someone might get a badge they didn't "earn". Even if it might help them avoid a step or two in a future dialog tree.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think what floored me on the top tier crafting badge was the sheer size of it. With every currently possible power (including the four CoH beta sprints and the CoH special edition power glide) on a standard AT at level 50 (Warshades and PBs being excluded) you have 99 slots plus 10 inventory slots (Kelds have, IIRC, 8 more than that). If you assume a massive amount of base crafting (working from the assumption they made nothing but base items/costumes/temp powers to get Master Craftsman, so 1,000 non-enhancement items crafted) you can still completely outfit 82 characters with crafted IOs including their 10 on-hand storage slots and still have enough left over to fill over half the slots on another 50. If you ignore the 10 "on-hand" storage slots, that number jumps to just 10 slots short of 91 level 50s completely outfitted. And that's just for one character to get the top badge (and again, assuming a TON of crafting for the base/costumes/temp powers, more than I think most people will ever do). One guy with Fabricator can outfit almost 2/3rds of an entire SG (assuming 150 members) as well as outfit the entire base with 1,000 crafted base items (or have every craftable temp power and costume item and still have hundreds of base items crafted).
[ QUOTE ]
Does this mean we'll get a dialog tree if we have Empath we'll get the NPC chat: "I'm sorry about that last hunt... I meant 10 not 100. Silly me and extra 0s."
Must use this subtle hint to my advantage about badging... all to Ironblade's heal farm on Infinity!
[/ QUOTE ]
lol that'd be awesome
50?! oops, meant 5...sorry! 
I like it!
Leader of The LEGION/Fallen LEGION on the Liberty server!
SSBB FC: 2062-8881-3944
MKW FC: 4167-4891-5991
[ QUOTE ]
Heres a bit of a teaser: We have big plans for these (and other) badges, and we really want them to mean something to your character. If you are in a dialog tree that involves creating something, we have the ability to look at your badges and see if you have taken the effort to prove yourself as a crafter. This effort would be rewarded with special options in the dialog tree that earn you better results, enable you to skip steps, etc. For this system to work, well need them to be a reasonable indicator of the amount of work a crafter has put into crafting. And its not just dialog trees that are going to look at badges, and its not just crafting badges that will be looked at, so you guys can speculate away!
[/ QUOTE ]
Can't wait.
Synergy Lvl 50 Def FF/Electric/Psy - Protector
Cimarron - Protector Mascot
My DA Page
[ QUOTE ]
Donald Duck comics were banned from Finland because he doesn't wear pants.
You told me something I didnt know Pos, I hope I returned the favor.
[/ QUOTE ]
To add to this...
I got banned from Helsinki-Vantaa airport in Finland for the same exact reason!!
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
Again, thanks for finally explaining the reasons behind this change.
[ QUOTE ]
The reasoning behind this change was it made these badges a little TOO easy to get, there is a lot of Base Salvage sitting around in storage racks gathering database dust. Crafting the actual base items still count towards the badge (as they always have), its simply the conversion from Base-to-Invention that has been removed from counting.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, it was far more before issue 13. This is because you could convert Invention Salvage to Base Components, then convert those base components to empowerment buffs (which then were deleted).
Also, there is the fact that base salvage and brainstorms are a finite supply (unless you plan to reintroduce either).
[ QUOTE ]
Were going to see what this does to the numbers of characters earning the Crafting badges through datamining. If, by the time Issue 14 is getting ready to launch, we see that it is now too hard to achieve those badges, then we will make another change to them (not saying that we will make the conversion count again, but that remains an option on the table in that case.)
[/ QUOTE ]
Can't you look back at the data and filter out "crafted salvage" or find out how many enhancements were crafted in Issue 12. That last should give you a clear idea how fast characters craft.
On the other hand, given the amount that has to be crafted for the last two badges (especially the last one), it doesn't seem unreasonable to reduce Fabricator a LOT. No character could possibly use all the crafts needed, and there isn't any easy way to get rid of the surplus.
[ QUOTE ]
Heres a bit of a teaser: We have big plans for these (and other) badges, and we really want them to mean something to your character. If you are in a dialog tree that involves creating something, we have the ability to look at your badges and see if you have taken the effort to prove yourself as a crafter. This effort would be rewarded with special options in the dialog tree that earn you better results, enable you to skip steps, etc. For this system to work, well need them to be a reasonable indicator of the amount of work a crafter has put into crafting. And its not just dialog trees that are going to look at badges, and its not just crafting badges that will be looked at, so you guys can speculate away!
[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the teaser, but it wasn't necessary. This could have waited for an official announcement.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
[ QUOTE ]
Right now, the numbers for the five badges are 50, 100, 500, 1000, 10000. Change them to 50, 100, 250, 500, 1000. Yeah, some people who spent the time getting the badges in the hold system will be better off. So? Your future is in the new characters being created now. Don't screw them over out of fear that someone might get a badge they didn't "earn". Even if it might help them avoid a step or two in a future dialog tree.
[/ QUOTE ]
I know that their is an idea that some badges should be 'epic' and hard to get. But if you then attach those badges to special dialogue trees, you've just made a lot of people who can't grind out the epic badges - and grinding is what you have to do - very annoyed. Especially since crafting takes up such a large amount of in-game resources that new characters who won't be gifted huge amounts of inf will be left out of any of these changes.
It's great to have a non-combat system in place, but please make sure you consider the way it can be accessed.
[ QUOTE ]
Here’s a bit of a teaser: We have big plans for these (and other) badges, and we really want them to mean something to your character. If you are in a dialog tree that involves creating something, we have the ability to look at your badges and see if you have taken the effort to prove yourself as a crafter. This effort would be rewarded with special options in the dialog tree that earn you better results, enable you to skip steps, etc. For this system to work, we’ll need them to be a reasonable indicator of the amount of work a crafter has put into crafting. And it’s not just dialog trees that are going to look at badges, and it’s not just crafting badges that will be looked at, so you guys can speculate away!
[/ QUOTE ]
Crimson:
If you've worked with me before, you know the ground rules, but I'm going to ... no, this is not a badge mission, jeez: isn't 604 enough already? And where exactly are you hiding them in that costume anyway? Look: if I have to give you a badge every time I need you to defeat a few Crey, I'll just send Indigo to do it already. Don't you have an ITF to run now? Sigh.
[u]Take mission from Crimson after he stops crying[u]
[u]Ask Crimson if this arc gives a souvenir instead[u]
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
The only reason I'm po'd is that I spent my last 100 mill inf buying up brainstorms to work on that badge. So thanks for not putting this in the test patch notes Posi, thanks for the middle finger.
My Lego Models http://www.flickr.com/photos/30369639@N07/ lemur lad: God you can't be that stupid... I'm on at the same time as you for once, and not 20 minutes into it you give me something worth petitioning?Lady-Dee: Hey my fat keeps me warm in the winter and shady in the summer.
[ QUOTE ]
The reasoning behind this change was it made these badges a little TOO easy to get, there is a lot of Base Salvage sitting around in storage racks gathering database dust. Crafting the actual base items still count towards the badge (as they always have), its simply the conversion from Base-to-Invention that has been removed from counting.
[/ QUOTE ]
However, as was pointed out, Base Salvage is a finite supply. Once its gone, its gone. This "fix" just adds insult to injury with the loss of Base Salvage.
Now, getting Fabricator involves either a) crafting 10k IOs - do you really intend on people doing this much crafting? 10k is a lot, especially when there's what, about 200 slots between dual builds? That means one person getting Fabricator will completely outfit 50 characters (or thereabouts) at level 50. Or is Fabricator more accurately intended as an Influence sink to drain excess Influence/Infamy out of the system? or b) crafting and deleting about 9500 Empowerment buffs, since the IO crafting badges themselves only get around 500 or so crafts done. Crafting Base items is not really a "good" option, since it'll either fill up the person's Personal Item thing (making finding anything they really want to place a pain) or make that person place and delete that Base item.
You say it was "too easy" with Converting, but now it falls into the "too hard" category. I'm eminently thankful that I got both my badgers Fabricator before this "fix" went into place.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Right now, the numbers for the five badges are 50, 100, 500, 1000, 10000. Change them to 50, 100, 250, 500, 1000. Yeah, some people who spent the time getting the badges in the hold system will be better off. So? Your future is in the new characters being created now. Don't screw them over out of fear that someone might get a badge they didn't "earn". Even if it might help them avoid a step or two in a future dialog tree.
[/ QUOTE ]
I know that their is an idea that some badges should be 'epic' and hard to get. But if you then attach those badges to special dialogue trees, you've just made a lot of people who can't grind out the epic badges - and grinding is what you have to do - very annoyed. Especially since crafting takes up such a large amount of in-game resources that new characters who won't be gifted huge amounts of inf will be left out of any of these changes.
It's great to have a non-combat system in place, but please make sure you consider the way it can be accessed.
[/ QUOTE ]
You've put the finger on something else that bothered me about it.
Most badges either require a specific type of play, or various levels of boring grinding. I don't pay that much attention to badges on all my characters (never found the accolades that much to dig into) but every once in a while I decide "this guys gonna be a badger".
My last badger has been quite effective at getting the badges. For the most part, the only badges he's missing are day jobs (still working on those), most PVP badges (I don't PVP), the six skiing badges from the winter event (there's a reason I don't play twitch games), most of the anniversary badges, and some that just require afk farming or didn't feel right (oddly enough, I didn't work to get Reformed, because it didn't feel right).
A lot of it was really boring work, particularly the crafting and ouroboros badges. I'd hate to think I'd have to go through that for most characters to get the full experience. As I recall, either Statesman or Positron once defined an exploit as doing something repetitive or boring to get a reward. Well, a lot of badging is that, and if we have to do it for something in-game... may be something to consider.
No problem if there's some text flavor that recognizes the badges. But right now, the only reason I don't participate in healing farms is because, the badge isn't worth it. Making it artificially worth it may not be an improvement.
My arcs are constantly shifting, just search for GadgetDon for the latest.
The world beware! I've started a blog
GadgetMania Under Attack: The Digg Lockout
Just to make a point about the whole Fabricator deal ...
Fabricator is still possible to get. It's just tedious, but it always was tedious. If anything, ignoring the "base --> brainstorm --> invention double conversions" it's actually easier to get now than it was before i13. At least it is if you know what you're doing.
I decided to start working on Fabricator recently. I started on January 31. I'm not contributing a massive amount of time -- about an hour here and there -- and since Jan 31, my hero badger has went from 1,405 crafts to 2,166 crafts. My villain badger has went from 1,208 crafts to 2,022 crafts.
So I'm able to easily craft in bulk. No, it isn't fast, but Fabricator isn't a fast badge to get anyway. It's still within the realm of possibility. If you stick to a schedule of 100 crafts a day -- very easy to do -- you can get Fabricator in 100 days.
Play my MA arcs!
Tracking Down Jack Ketch - ArcID #2701
Cat War! - ArcID #2788
In a recent patch, we removed the ability to have the conversion of old base-salvage to new invention salvage count towards the overall crafting badges. This is a change to the methods I had previously said would count towards earning those overall crafting badges.
The reasoning behind this change was it made these badges a little TOO easy to get, there is a lot of Base Salvage sitting around in storage racks gathering database dust. Crafting the actual base items still count towards the badge (as they always have), its simply the conversion from Base-to-Invention that has been removed from counting.
Were going to see what this does to the numbers of characters earning the Crafting badges through datamining. If, by the time Issue 14 is getting ready to launch, we see that it is now too hard to achieve those badges, then we will make another change to them (not saying that we will make the conversion count again, but that remains an option on the table in that case.)
Heres a bit of a teaser: We have big plans for these (and other) badges, and we really want them to mean something to your character. If you are in a dialog tree that involves creating something, we have the ability to look at your badges and see if you have taken the effort to prove yourself as a crafter. This effort would be rewarded with special options in the dialog tree that earn you better results, enable you to skip steps, etc. For this system to work, well need them to be a reasonable indicator of the amount of work a crafter has put into crafting. And its not just dialog trees that are going to look at badges, and its not just crafting badges that will be looked at, so you guys can speculate away!
Positron
Follow me on Twitter