Discussion: 57 & 60 Month Veteran Rewards!
By
AARGH_NA,
Posted on: 2009-01-21 17:33 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
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And to whoever said, "life's not fair", to be brutally frank, [censored] off. This isn't life.
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Is your frustration real or isn't it?
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But THIS world is under the complete control of a relatively small number of people who can change anything about it they like.
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You are kidding yourself if you think real life isn't just like that, in all of its hierarchical structures and organizations.
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I don't accept 'deal with it' as an answer.
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Okay, don't deal with it.
Goldbrick 50 inv/ss tank
Other 50s: Power Beam, Rocky Mantle, STORMIE Agent, Matchless, Major Will, Knightmayor, Femstone, Space Maureen, Crimebuster Ako, Dr. Twilight, Doc Champion, American Gold Eagle
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I would argue (and this is a slight derail) that any player who's already been playing (and paying) long enough to get the 60 month badge would be doing so with or without veteran rewards. Implying that people only remain loyal to the game because they are rewarded with veteran powers seems intellectually dishonest to me.
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People do not "only remain loyal to the game because they are rewarded with veteran powers", vet rewards are PART of why people stick around, and that's good enough.
Goldbrick 50 inv/ss tank
Other 50s: Power Beam, Rocky Mantle, STORMIE Agent, Matchless, Major Will, Knightmayor, Femstone, Space Maureen, Crimebuster Ako, Dr. Twilight, Doc Champion, American Gold Eagle
This is not a set of carrots that is significantly going to change my decisions about whether or not to continue subscribing. Which is probably a good thing - it'd be easier to offend me than to wow me at this point (I have badges through 48 or 51 months or somesuch).
Show me a player-created-content system that breaths some life into a tired super-powered combat simulator by spacing it with a bit of text I haven't read before and some combinations of critters dressed up in skins I haven't seen before and I can start making a serious judgement about wether or not this divertisment is still worthy of my $$.
Or power customization. That would defintiely keep me on a while longer. If energy blast had 1/10th the variety of visual options that shields have I could happily amuse myself for quite some time. More effort towards letting me realize my vision on the screen in a way others can see is always welcome.
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I wish we could accept that as enough of an advantage and do away with Vet Rewards entirely.
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I wish we all could accept that some players like and enjoy vet rewards just the way they are. Overall the vet reward program has been a nice addition to the game. I like looking forward to the next reward.
Goldbrick 50 inv/ss tank
Other 50s: Power Beam, Rocky Mantle, STORMIE Agent, Matchless, Major Will, Knightmayor, Femstone, Space Maureen, Crimebuster Ako, Dr. Twilight, Doc Champion, American Gold Eagle
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But THIS world is under the complete control of a relatively small number of people who can change anything about it they like.
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You are kidding yourself if you think real life isn't just like that, in all of its hierarchical structures and organizations.
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Of course real life is like this as well. However, I specifically mentioned *right below that* the crucial *difference* between this game and real life:
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...THIS world is under the complete control of a relatively small number of people who can change anything about it they like. [u]They've proved in the past that they listen to their customers.[u]
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In addition to their track record of actually giving a darn (in general) what their customers think, I'm a voice in a lot smaller crowd here than in the rest of the world. Out there, it'd be ludicrous to think that I could even make myself *heard* by those who control things, totally apart from their willingness to listen. Here, though, it's not nearly so impossible.
BABs Back Alley Brawler BAB Castle Posi Positron Sunstorm Blue Steel Pohsyb Ghost Widow War Witch
There, I just made nearly certain that at least one dev will likely see this post. 
There's no way I could pull that off in real life.
@MuonNeutrino
Student, Gamer, Altaholic, and future Astronomer.
This is what it means to be a tank!
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There, I just made nearly certain that at least one dev will likely see this post. There's no way I could pull that off in real life.
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Not true, but the effort would most likely result in jail time.
You are give the same opportunity as everyone else including other players who started on April 29, 2004, pay and play for 60 months.
The rest of your post is attempting to justify your position which is flawed by the fact I stated above.
--Rad
/whereami:
57 month is meh, but I'm liking the 60 month for sure.
Can't wait for august (60 months for me!) 
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The huge and painfully obvious thing you keep failing to see is that those players did get all those veteran rewards. You can't be rewarded something that didn't exist, so them not having them for the first 2.5 years is a complete non-issue. The players who didn't get them for the first 2.5 years DID get them all.
[/ QUOTE ] I do see. I covered that.
You are ignoring the difference.
Newer players have the advantage of IMMEDIATELY starting to earn, and receive, VRs all through the first 28 months of their gaming career.
advantage here goes to newer vets.
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You fail to see the difference between still getting all the rewards, but having a delay (because the system didn't even exist) with never, EVER getting the rewards at all, and the compounded problem of each reward becoming accessible to an ever increasingly tiny portion of the player base.
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Yes, at some point, the world will explode or CoX will end. some people will miss out on the last couple years of VRs.
counter-advantage, goes to older vets
(Yes, the people on the short end of this side of the equation may be a little more numerous, but probably still less than the number of people who played for 2.5 years with no VRs, and also they have less invested in CoX.)
But still the equation balances.
I don't expect to discuss this particular point further. I think I have made this side point as clear as I can.
__________________________________________________ ____
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If it reaches a point where a veteran reward will only ever be obtained by a couple dozen players, (and by definition, it must reach this point unless CoH remains online forever AND longtime players never unsubscribe) is it really worth the time and effort to develop and code it when that same time could be used for something that would benefit the playerbase at large?
It's simply a logistics problem - resources to code said reward vs. actual benefit to the game for doing so.
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As several have said, Once the VR system is set in place, adding each VR is really a very minor task... minor tweaks, and database entries to track who has the rewards.
So, . . . (minor-resources-to-code) vs (keeping people in the 32+ month range paying and playing month after month, longer than they otherwise might?)
Yes, that equation says, 'very worthwhile'.
And an answer to your "only a few will ever get them"?
What if the devs ever get to the suggested attitude of "Aww the game might end in a few months, Let's just start laying down and dieing"?
Logical response? Turn on all VRs for everyone for the last few months.
At that point, and not before, it would no longer be needed to be the carrot to keep us playing for rewards months or years away.
It would also bring in a lot of final revenue, from people who might re-enlist for those last few months, to play with complete VRs.
It would be logical, so maybe you are wrong that everyone won't get the higher VRs.
But I think we are a long way from being in a game where the devs should start giving up and planning for the end.
I wouldn't want to be in a game where the devs planned based on possible game death,
so I won't be a part of encouraging them to gain that attitude.
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To the best of my knowledge, future veteran rewards are planned. However, I'm not on the rewards team, and don't know that answer as a certainty. Positron would have to give a difinitive answer.
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69 Month Reward: Old Timer
You've done your time. All new characters can be started at level 22.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Realistically, any player who starts playing now, will actually probably never get the 60 month vet power ever, no matter what he or she does, given the average lifespan of most MMOs.
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Ah, yes, because old, successful MMOs are always dying.
You know Meridian 59 is still around? One of the oldest graphical MMOs? So is Ultima Online.
If an MMO is successful, it'll probably keep running until nobody at all subscribes to it - they're very cheap to run once the initial costs have been recovered. Now, it may mean new content becomes scarce (or, alternatively, becomes more 'events run by a couple of staff members' and less 'oodles of new art and code') but the game itself sticks around.
The failed MMOs are almost all ones that never got a critical mass of population. CoH/V is certainly not one of those. It might dwindle and consolidate servers, but you'll get there eventually.
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You are give the same opportunity as everyone else including other players who started on April 29, 2004, pay and play for 60 months.
The rest of your post is attempting to justify your position which is flawed by the fact I stated above.
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I really don't know why people continue to miss my point. Either you're being obtuse, or you're intentionally dodging the issue. "Play or don't play" is a non-choice; it totally defeats the purpose of the question. If someone is interested enough in the game to want the reward, they're also probably interested enough in the game to be playing it regardless of the specific reward. That's the case for me, at least.
In that case, my options are narrowed to exactly one: do absolutely nothing. How is that an 'opportunity'? What 'opportunity' did I have to get in on the ground floor when I didn't even know this game EXISTED for the first four years of its lifespan? If I want anything else in this game, I can go out and do something to get it. Want to play khelds/veats? Go out and level a 50. Want purples? Go out and make the inf to buy them. Want a respec? Go out and run a trial. That's an 'opportunity'. 'Sit on your duff for 60 months' isn't. And if I was going to be subscribed *anyway*, that's exactly what your 'opportunity' boils down to.
@MuonNeutrino
Student, Gamer, Altaholic, and future Astronomer.
This is what it means to be a tank!
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I would argue (and this is a slight derail) that any player who's already been playing (and paying) long enough to get the 60 month badge would be doing so with or without veteran rewards. Implying that people only remain loyal to the game because they are rewarded with veteran powers seems intellectually dishonest to me.
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Don't forget the not-taking-a-break factor.
Many people have returned to the game and said things like
"Dang! If I hadn't taken a year off, I woulda had XXXX by now!"
Or
"I couldn't play for those four months, but I wish I had kept the account active. I have fallen behind where I could have been by now".
Or
"I'm back! But I kept my account active while I was away!"
Hard to know for sure how many people resisted disabling their account for a while,
But remarks I have seen indicate a LOT of non-interrupted accounts because of VRs.
ETA: also, a percentage of people who quit to 'to take a break' just forget to come back.
If you can get some people to not take the break, you also prevent some complete-quits.
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To the best of my knowledge, future veteran rewards are planned. However, I'm not on the rewards team, and don't know that answer as a certainty. Positron would have to give a difinitive answer.
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69 Month Reward: Old Timer
You've done your time. All new characters can be started at level 22.
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I'd be all over this like a fat kid at a pastry buffet.....
-The Elite-[50's]Va'Leria�X'hian�Stormy Monday�Radical Burn�Mo'Mentum�Heat-Source�Professor Blaze
-World Wide Evil, Inc-[50s]Soulfire�Perma.Frost�Kold Soul�Foxphyre�Pitch-Black�Corrupt Fusion�Cassanova Brown�Tyler Thorn�Iron Siren�Solaura�Fortunauta Wade�Look'Alike�Arctic Engineer
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I wish we could accept that as enough of an advantage and do away with Vet Rewards entirely.
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I wish we all could accept that some players like and enjoy vet rewards just the way they are. Overall the vet reward program has been a nice addition to the game. I like looking forward to the next reward.
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I agree with this completely. Vet rewards are just that....little perks for being with the game as long as you have subscribed. I just got my 36 month rewards and look forward to the ones I will get in the future for as long as I play the game. It makes me wonder, if those who feel they should not have to wait for these rewards feel they are being dealt with unfairly when someone they work with gets more vacation time because they have worked there longer. No matter how hard you may try to earn more time off, you have to wait until the time has passed to be rewarded.
I've said my peace and will also applaud the devs and thank them for giving us these little perks. And now I will leave this thread and go back to playing the game as this has become a whinefest as they usually do.
I'd be willing to bet that Vet Rewards are MUCH more effective in keeping long time players here, than keeping relative noobs here. Just sayin'
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If I want anything else in this game, I can go out and do something to get it.
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Day jobs???
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I wish we could accept that as enough of an advantage and do away with Vet Rewards entirely.
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I wish we all could accept that some players like and enjoy vet rewards just the way they are. Overall the vet reward program has been a nice addition to the game. I like looking forward to the next reward.
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Absolutely. The Veteran Reward system has been a wonderful successful program. There's no need to change it now. While I may get more use out of the ICON discount than the power pool travels (Air Superiority, Headsplitter, and Disembowel are what help me solo Rikti Magus on RWZ raids) these are a great expression of appreciation to those who have been with the game for as long as they have. Not game breaking by any means, but something fantastic to look forward to as players continue to support the game we've been enjoying for five years now.
I'm glad to hear that they're continuing.
The Paladin
Steel Canyon, Virtue
Exalted
@Paladin
Post deleted by Niviene
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Predicting doom 6 months in is -just- a little different from predicting an online game (most of which, even more successful ones than CoH, already have notoriously short lifespans) with a largely stagnant player base and an engine the devs have admitted is pushing its limits in several areas, will not be around in TEN YEARS from its launch. (Double the -entire- time of its existence to date.) If you cannot tell the difference, you're being a fool, or purposely obtuse.
[/ QUOTE ]What big-name MMORPGs have closed their doors (or are going to close them)?
Off the top of my head, I can think of... Tabula Rasa. Tibia Online and Ultima Online were both made in 1997, and are still running today. The only ones that have had subscription numbers both above and below CoH's numbers on the MMOG charts during its lifetime are Ultima Online, Dark Age of Camelot, EverQuest 2, and Star Wars Galaxies (and if LotRO continues it's current trend, they'll dip below us as well), and none of those have actually failed.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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I'm trying to offer the suggestion "cats have fur" and someone is countering it with "but...but nachos have cheese on them!"
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And the subject is, "Things Commonly Found Covered in Something Else" ???
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You are give the same opportunity as everyone else including other players who started on April 29, 2004, pay and play for 60 months.
The rest of your post is attempting to justify your position which is flawed by the fact I stated above.
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I really don't know why people continue to miss my point. Either you're being obtuse, or you're intentionally dodging the issue. "Play or don't play" is a non-choice; it totally defeats the purpose of the question. If someone is interested enough in the game to want the reward, they're also probably interested enough in the game to be playing it regardless of the specific reward. That's the case for me, at least.
In that case, my options are narrowed to exactly one: do absolutely nothing. How is that an 'opportunity'? What 'opportunity' did I have to get in on the ground floor when I didn't even know this game EXISTED for the first four years of its lifespan? If I want anything else in this game, I can go out and do something to get it. Want to play khelds/veats? Go out and level a 50. Want purples? Go out and make the inf to buy them. Want a respec? Go out and run a trial. That's an 'opportunity'. 'Sit on your duff for 60 months' isn't. And if I was going to be subscribed *anyway*, that's exactly what your 'opportunity' boils down to.
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Disagreeing with your point does not equal missing it. As for "being obtuse or dodging the issue". To be blunt, I believe that should be more directed at you. You are claiming that you have no opportunity to earn the rewards. This is incorrect. No matter how you spin it, it is incorrect. I will grant you that you have no opportunity to accelerate most rewards but, then neither did any other player who has them now or will have them before you. The opportunity for you to get the reward is there through the same means as everyone else. They played for X months, why shouldn't you? Because you were unaware of the game? Puh-lease. You are not entitled to it, yet.
If you wish to have alternate "opportunities" to earn the rewards offered through the program here is your stage. But, that suggestion in no ways impacts the opportunity already presented, nor should it. The Vet Reward program is just that; rewarding every player who has remained loyal costumers for X period of time. You not knowing about the game does not justify you receiving the same rewards through this system at the same time as those who have already fulfilled the requirement. The same requirement you too can meet in time. And since you are "interested enough in the game to want the reward, [they're] you're also probably interested enough in the game to be playing it regardless of the specific reward"; you are in no danger of not fulfilling that requirement after maintaining an active subscription for 60 months.
--Rad
/whereami:
Wow. All 35 pages read. Ok, I think JDouble has the right of it. Sell the dang things in order. More cash is good for the game. For reference I stsrted playing about 7 months after launch. By anybodies definition I suspect I'm a vet. And I don't care if they sell the dang things. Like he said "I got's mine" and for free no less (no semantics there please). Don't let folks buy the badge and everything would be fine. No sweat off anybodies you know what's. Except for the fact that sooooooo many other "Vet's" would probably whine louder than the newer people who whine about the VR's. Vet's can be so loud.
Le Blanc 50 Dark/Dark Scrap
High Huntress 50 Archery/NRG Blast
And a goatload of others. On a goatload of servers.
Official Rickroller of Hero Con 1
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personally to me it just sounds like they are running out of ideas. 50% off? pointless. 5 merits? again pointless. and even if you can get fly, ss, tp, or SUPERJUMP(superleap?) at lvl 6, thats pretty pointless. and also damaging to their own greed machine, the new time cards w the flight pack. yep all sounds lazy to me. heck in i14 we have to design our own missions. cool concept, but reading between the lines it sounds highly like "we have no more ideas so let the players think we are doing something good for them when in reality we are asking them to do our jobs for us."
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agree with all
I get my 54 badge end of this month...so I gotta wait six whole months...but I gotta say, the 60 REALLY is the first badge I've ever been just plain ANXIOUS for!!
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@Portland Underground