Vigilantes as a third Designation
By
Aett_Thorn,
Posted on: 2008-12-16 09:22 in Suggestions and Ideas
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Another idea that hit me whilst playing an Arachnos Agent gone Rogue, using her knowledge of Arachnos against the large foe to slip into various installations with stolen identification. Epic Archetypes going 'Rogue' or Vigilante.
Would anyone get behind Arachnos Agents and Kheldians as Vigilantes, for players who have broken the level 50 barrier for the specific side? Or should Vigilantes have their own 'Epic' AT?
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I think a significant part of the population (and the Devs as a whole) might be opposed to allowing current EATs as vigilantes, simply to preserve their "uniqueness."
That said, I have a Psi/Dev blaster who is a former Fortunata, and I think it would be cool.
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
I agree with that assesment, more or less. Just thought I'd fling it out there.
Though what -would- a Vigilante EAT look like..? That's got me thinking, now, Damn it... I'll probably have to write something like that up during work tomorrow, then post it here tomorrow night or, better yet, this weekend.
Still. Yeah. I'd love to get some more opinions on this concept if people are willing to share them!
-Rachel-
Still like it, still link to it. Looking forward to reading the next version.
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Though what -would- a Vigilante EAT look like..?
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Everything in the SOA's 2nd to 5th costume slot?
Warshades fall under the same question, heck Peacebringers would to if it means removing the Nitcius presence from the world.
Although i would like a "new" EAT for the Vigilantes, just because.
As for Hero corps lack of presence in the Isles. Well no one noticed them, after all a group that works for the highest bidder might not want themselves known for working in the 'shady' sector, at least for their PR department.
~ I am Mender Sirbil Xe I do not know who this Ex Libris is that you speak of. ~
I suppose that could work... But the Hero Corps... well... I dunno! Maybe make at least a -few- of the contacts and storyarcs be Hero-Corps related..?
Personally I'd -love- to have several hand-crafted paths that would take a Vigilante from levvel 1 to level 50, span both sides of the ocean, and be designed specifically for different types of vigilantes.
No Vigilante would be -forced- along these paths, mind you, and could go off on his or her merry little way without question. But for those who do there would be lines of duty from 1 to 50 specifically for them.
Mercenary: You're in it for the money. The most mission-intensive of the Vigilante Paths. All of the missions in this line grant a large infamy and prestige bonus on completion and less experience. All or a great majority of the missions you handle are paying jobs, working for the highest bidder. Perhaps a few story-branches where you can choose to help one side or the other in the middle of a job, getting bribed, etc.
Dark Vigilante: Batman. Lots of fighting Natural, Science, and Magic foes, but not a lot of mutants or tech. Dark alleys and dark themes. Likely to have extended level ranges for missions in King's Row and Sharkhead Isle. =-3
Vigilant: Just doing the wrong thing for the right reason. Truly believing that justice puts you above or outside the law. Willing to take a life if it means protecting others. Again, Darker themes, but not brutality. Lots of missions where the shades of gray don't exist. Stop the Slavers. Break the Extortionists.
Anti-Hero: Not really a -good- person, but doing the right thing, anyway. Borderline psychopaths and hard-hearted warriors. Again, dark themes. Though this time it might be ethical issues rather than moral ones. Law over Justice. Stop the Slavers, Break the Extortionists, and then beat down the smuggler bringing food to the downtrodden people of Mercy Island.
Hero at Heart: Likely the brightest of character themes, this person does the right thing because it's the right thing to do. A True Hero who's lack of faith in due-process leads him or her to drag the criminals to the light of day, even if it means breaking laws them self. Whether it's Breaking and Entering or Extradition treaties.
There are probably more of these I could come up with. But I have to get ready for work! So why don't you guys post some more options for character development paths that reach from 1 to 50?
-Rachel-
QR (only read first page)
Didn't the developers say the game could have contacts check origins, gender, and archetypes after i12 or somesuch? Like the origin of powers storyarc?
Anyway, if it can, specifically, detect archetype, they could assign a different storyarc (with more matching text and stuff), for upper-villain levels like the patron arcs?
I would see Hero at heart also as someone who distrust the current registration system or has authority issues in general.
No. Sorry, but the game's resources are divided too much already.. The effort of making a new game would be better spent adding to the games we already have, especially cov.
/signed , But question ?
i read thru and noone brought these up yet.
1. what about the Acolade Badges , what would keep ppl from getting all of them both sides.
2. what about the higher lvl AT's that you chose would they be able to fit in.
Talos Maltalomar lvl 50 Rad/Rad Corrupter - Triumph Server
Arack BloodThrall lvl 50 BS/SR Scrapper - Triumph Server
Rose's Kiss Lvl 50 Mind/Nrg/Ice PermaDom - Triumph Server
That is a -good- question... Perhaps hard-code them to be able to receive only one set of accolades? Or make the Accolades cancel out.
I don't know all the accolades myself. But set equivalents for accolades. The big +HP Heroside accolade does not stack with the big +HP Villainside accolade, etc.
As for the Higher level ATs... I don't understand what you mean.
If you're referring to Epic ATs... I, personally, would like the VEATs and Khelds to be able to cross over through this method. But I can see how that would upset many. So I'll be working on a Vigilante styled Epic Archetype.
If you're referring to level 40 villains who you've been playing for months: No. They could not become Vigilantes. This would be a designation from character creation, hardwired into the system.
And I respect your opinion, SubZippo, but I'd like to point out that after it's initial inception this idea would need 0 maintenance.
Powerset Proliferation? No problem. powersets are tied to the class. If Brutes get Broadsword then Vigilante Brutes would get it as well.
Content Creation for Heroes -or Villains -or- Vigilantes? Creating Hero or Villain content IS creating Vigilante content. So no need to devote additional resources to the Vigilante side of things.
So, while I respect your opinion I don't agree with it. This would be creating new content for NEITHER side of the game, and instead creating very character-driven content for people willing to traverse both sides.
And Offspring? Due Process kinda means the system of law in place at this time. Which includes Hero Registration. =-3
-Rachel-
Forgive me if I restate a point I haven't seen. I am on a wireless PDA, and read abot half of the thread before I felt I had to post.
I understand the desire for sideswitching in the game. I am for it myself, but I acccept that the Devs feel that it wouldn't be balanced AT to AT. I don't agree with their reasoning personally especially since the Coop Play entered the game. But that"s my opinion; the ATs are balanced enough that I woudlnt choose a Hero over a Villain or vice versa in any team I made. There are no gimp ATs just people who can't play them very well (if at all). The same goes for Power Sets.
By Page 3 of the thread, the discussion finally became 'sideswitching' vice a true 'Third Designation/Faction, and as I stated, I would be for this if the Devs feel they can code it with minimal bugginess. Actually, I'm thinking that Turncoating at will (even with a timer) just begs for glitchiness. So, I'm more against it than for that idea. IF something like this were acceptable to the Devs, I would suggest the following:
<ul type="square">[*]Turncoating (switching sides) ONLY being allowed through a TF/SF. No timers in a PVP Zone because it begs a gamebreaking glitch AND would tend toward griefing even with a timer.
[*]If turncoating were allowed, the toon must Zone to the opposing side in order to change factions. This would eliminate griefing and automatically drop the toon from any PVP team they were on when they Zoned out.
[*]No turncoating in Paragon or the Isles. Or 'no PVP in PVE Zones, basically.[/list]
Without these stipulations, I know that I for one would howl to high heaven against this system, and would perma-shun any 'Vigilante' toons (not the players, just the toons).
Beyond that, I have always been in favor of sideswitching as described above at the very least.
Additionally, there is no real need for a Third Faction; just sideswitching. All AT's available to do so through a TF/SF each time they want to switch to the other side. Perhaps a PVP Zone TF? Only available in those Zones, whatever.
And the term 'Vigilante' for this is an error. I believe the term is Latin for 'in place of the guardians', and Heroes are already accurately denoted as 'vigilantes' in game canon, being 'in place of' government police/guard agencies. The more correct designation would be 'Mercenary', but Villains have been saddled with that moniker already.
And, yes; I am a stickler for linguistically correct terminology. Sorry, we all have our pet peeves.
Ninus Lvl 50 Bots/Dark/SM Mastermind Badges: 1384 @Ninus on Global
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Hey, Ninus! Thanks for joining the thread! To address your concerns.
Turncoating can only be performed whilst in a PvP zone. You cannot be on a team when you do it. The timer was just to avoid the character swapping mid-combat to avoid a defeat.
If it were tied to a task force it wouldn't work. All instances in the game return the character to his or her previous location. Exiting a mission drops you at the door you went in, for example. To change that coding so that a hero becoming a villain returns to the open world in the Isles would have FAR more gamebreaking code glitches possible. As every mission would have to be recoded with specific locations and exits, lest we end up with Skyway mishies in a warehouse dumping players in Peregrine.
There is no 'Turncoat' option in Paragon or the Isles. Ever. At all.
So far I've got 5 zones a character can turncoat in. The 4 PvP zones and a new 'sub-zone' which is little more than a boat in the ocean.
Also. Yes. Vigilante in Latin refers to 'in absence of the guardians' however that's irrelevant. The current English usage tends toward the more broad end of the spectrum 'self-appointed doer of justice' for example. Or 'a person who ignores due process of law and enacts their own form of justice in response to a perception of insufficient response'. The Heroes of Paragon City are -Not- self-appointed doers of Justice. They are State appointed, licensed, and registered do-gooders. A Vigilante under such a system of law would see Hero Registration as a waste of time, or a layer of control that is not needed, perhaps even a hinderance in the eyes of true justice.
Ergo: Vigilante.
-Rachel-
Running Seraph through the Rogue Isles would be interesting. They got some of the better Circle of Thorns arches, the villains do 
Alright... After twelve different Epic Archetype ideas for the Vigilante.... I'm gonna say 'No'.
I think the awesomeness of playing a Vigilante (as outlined herein) is good enough WITHOUT adding in another Epic Archetype.
If another Epic MUST be added to the game I'd prefer The Movement Master be given to ALL sides. Vigilantes, Heroes, and Villains.
-Rachel-
Ok,I have one more thought for my vigilante idea,and I have already gotten it into my head that World Pvp is out of the question(most of you know what I am talkign about),but how about this..
When a hero comes across an unliscensed vigilante,he or she would be presented with a few choices..
1)Apprehend him/her
2)Work with him/her
3)Leave him/her be
Or,if you are a hero on the Rogue Isles,and are liscensed,you would choose the following as a villain
1)Destroy the hero
2)Work with the hero
3)Leave the hero be
You would have a choice,and there would be no world pvp,just one on one pvp if you chose to apprehend the vigilante,or destroy the hero.
Thanks you for listening,your friend,Samson : )
Uh
We....are...vigilantes...
A person who has powers,but uses them for the wrong,but are the lesser of two evils,such as the Punisher,are the brand and type of vigilante I was speaking of."Evil Heroes",if you will.
In Paragon,every hero has a liscense,and In the Rouge Isles,every villain has a threat identification.But what would you call a hero who has neither a liscense,nor a threat identification,but practices their craft to help people and possibly uses under-handed tactics to get the job done,just like the Punisher?
I call them Illegals,"Evil Heroes",or "Bad Guy Heroes" if you will once again
This was the type of vigilante that I meant to describe.
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Ok,I have one more thought for my vigilante idea,and I have already gotten it into my head that World Pvp is out of the question(most of you know what I am talkign about),but how about this..
When a hero comes across an unliscensed vigilante,he or she would be presented with a few choices..
1)Apprehend him/her
2)Work with him/her
3)Leave him/her be
Or,if you are a hero on the Rogue Isles,and are liscensed,you would choose the following as a villain
1)Destroy the hero
2)Work with the hero
3)Leave the hero be
You would have a choice,and there would be no world pvp,just one on one pvp if you chose to apprehend the vigilante,or destroy the hero.
Thanks you for listening,your friend,Samson : )
[/ QUOTE ]So, still forcing PvP down the throats of people who don't want it, i.e. some Vigilante players?
Big. Fat. NO.
The OP's suggestion, however, is good.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Back Alley Brawler
Did you just use "casual gamer" and "purpled-out warshade" in the same sentence?
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You're still opening up the World PvP can of worms with that idea, Samson.
By allowing people the three options (work with, ignore, apprehend/kill) you're right back to PvP. And frankly that's now unacceptable on a TECHNOLOGICAL level.
The Devs have altered the way PvP works so that while in PvP active areas your powers function in a different manner. You would need to code EACH AND EVERY ZONE for PvP OR PvE, based on a trigger controlled by the players.
Now I'll break this down from the beginning to the end.
Firstly: By giving the three choices you're back to the World PvP concept, which is not acceptable and the REASON I started this thread. To take from your idea the parts where I saw the most merit and develop a system by which the concepts would be fair and balanced.
Secondly: Assuming you brought up an options menu for the Non-Vigilante looking at the Vigilante you're opening up room for Griefing. Either through /duel requests being spammed at the Vigilante repeatedly as he atempts to go about his normal business OR by level 50 characters simply clicking 'apprehend' on any level 1 Vigilante they might find, assuming the Vigilante gets no choice in the matter.
Three: Based on the new method of determining PvP versus PvE zones all city and hazard zones would have to be both PvP AND PvE with specific 'triggers' to enable the PvP functionality. This could cause two problems that I can see immediately.
3a) Glitching between PvP and PvE might cause players who AREN'T Vigilantes to be struck by AoE effects or even targetable.
3b) NPCs spawning under PvP rules being far more capable than PvE enemies normally are.
So no. Enabling PvP for Vigilantes or the Heroes and Villains they work with is unacceptable as it leads to griefing, glitches, and OPEN WORLD PVP which is -precisely- what this suggestion was meant to excise.
-Rachel-
Sorry about coming late to the party 
but this is a thread I am VERY interested in. First I'll admit having a similar idea awhile back..its fallen off the boards but I called them mercenaries, vigilantee works fine also. REgardless of what we call them or how it works....I want both a method for side switching fo existing toons (involved process with lots of storyline) AND a way to create a "neutral" toon from day one.
To me its being "purple" i.e. a combo of red and blue.
My mechanic was a bit different them yours basically involving starting in a neutral zone. "mercenary training academy", vanguard training, or midnighter training. Completeing brief tutorial explaining how to run a "purple" toon and the game as a whole and then on to making contacts on both sides by say level 5.
You would start out as an unknown quantity in both the isles and paragon with no real credentials. You could choose to take on a mission to fake your way onto "the list" ala the VEAT toons and/or start befriending important folks in paragon. For instance once "on the list" in the isles you can never actually be removed but you can become disliked enough to "Smell like week-old fish" in Kalinda's eyes and she (or other contacts) will require you to prove your loyalty to the isles (missions/story arc) before they will trust you again.
On the blue side spend to much time doing high profile stuff that looks overly villanious and yu may find yourself with missions to perform on the isles just to be allowed back in paragon city...better hope kalinda doesn't find out...lol.
To spell this out in purely mechanical terms each purple toon has a "bar of deeds" that fills up weighted toward red or blue (there are also neutral missions that keep things exactly where they are but help with the occasional purple stuff like getting your cape). Doing a safeguard/mayhem/or entire story arc will add to your amount of blue/red points. A normal mission will barely register. As long as your toon stays in the central "purple" level of trust you can travel between zones with little difficulty.
Purple toons would also have the added advantage of being able to lead mixed bliue/red teams intot he other zone for infiltration/purple missions.
I think around half my heroes would be vigilantes - I think I said previously in this thread great idea.