Live Feedback: Issue 13 : Merit Reward System
By
1VB_FIST,
Posted on: 2008-12-11 18:56 in Developers' Corner
Not quite Steele, that was in place for a while (~4 weeks) until the currently active system, which is purely the number on the TF (logged on or off).
This went in in March
http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Patch_Notes/2008-03-05
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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Not quite Steele, that was in place for a while (~4 weeks) until the currently active system, which is purely the number on the TF (logged on or off).
This went in in March
http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Patch_Notes/2008-03-05
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I might start soling Posi again... I missed that patch note because of how busy I was during that time. I cant log off the second account now to get it for both... but I can solo it again (when I feel masochistic...)
YMMV---IMO
Ice Ember
That's what I said, it never goes below the number (regardless of how many quit).
Together we entered a city of strangers, we made it a city of friends, and we leave it a City of Heroes. - Sweet_Sarah
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That's what I said, it never goes below the number (regardless of how many quit).
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Nope. Instead, it's based on how many people haven't quit (logged in or not). So you could do a Statesman's Task Force with things spawned for two. (Good luck soloing or duoing the lieutenants.)
The alternative of rationalizing the minimum necessary to start a TF was rejected.
My arcs are constantly shifting, just search for GadgetDon for the latest.
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That patch note specifically says there is no minimum.
You can easily say start Augustine ( 8 minimum) go down to 2 people by having 6 quit and run that TF fighting spawns set for 2 on the Door missions.
The minimum to start rule went in on 2-12-2008, then was superseded by the 3-05 version
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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Actually, the new Recharge Intensive Pet recipe is usable at level 18 by Illusion controllers. The previously existing IO sets weren't particularly useful for Phantom Army, but Call to Arms is.
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Still that is one power out of one set. I agree with you that the biggest problem with low level sets is shelf life. you simply outlevel them too fast.
Master Gabriel
I am lvl 40. I did three SF, and soloed about 25 story arcs, i got 128 merits to show for it villian side. Even if i story-arc out, i might not make the 200+ for a decent recipe. Merit cost is too high or Merit rewards are too low. You cant sell merits so there is no fear of farming them. IF someone were to sell the recipes they get from farmed merits, it would drive the game economy down however, is that a really bad thing? Do we really need to spend 100 million on a LoTG 7.5%? I play on protector, so because of the rareness of teams, SF are almost never done, with the exception of LRSF or ITF making getting any kind of merit stash impossible.
Here are some ideas, they were already metioned im sure:
*Lower the cost of recipes:
If you make the best recipes 100 merits maximum, you only need to run four SF to get it, thats doable at the current cost per SF.
draw backs:
People will play SF more often to get more merits and neglect story-arcs.
People will farm SFs again just as they did in the past.
*Raise the amount of merits for story-arcs:
Two merits for 30 mins of story arc is not gonna cut it. If you raise the amount of merits you get to say 10, you still have to do 10 story-arcs to get the best recipes.
Draw backs:
People who hate story arcs, wont do them period.
People will farm story arcs, which will force them to experience content, which is what the merit system was designed to do anyway
*an alternative would be to create different types of merits that have different values and throw in a random amount as a bouns:
Lets say you are doing a SF vs story-arcs, the merits you would get from the SF would be worth more. LIke a denomination system, where you might get 3x10 merit coins plus a random denomination(5 or 10 or even 20), where the story-arc may give a 5 merit coin plus a random of 2, 5, or 10.
A quick word on farming: It is there and always will be. Some people consider it fun, others hate it. The point is, people will do it, and there is no way to really abolish it and if you try to, you will lose more people than you gain however, if you encourage it, you will gain more people than you lose.
Lastly, make merit rewards for paper mishs. Maybe 2 per mish with a bonus of 5 per mayhem. So if you are in Port oakes, you can start buying those earlier sets if you want to.
Just my .003 cents after taxes.
B.
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That's what I said, it never goes below the number (regardless of how many quit).
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We understood what you said, but it doesn't work that way. It works EXACTLY as I described it. If you start Posi with 4 and 2 quit, it will spawn for TWO, not three (which is the minimum to start).
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
As a casual player due to working 50+ hour work week this just seems to be another way the casual player has been left behind. Since people like me only get to play maybe a handful of hours in any given week it is hard for us to get in on TF or SF. I am strictly a villian player. SO there are few TF for us as there are for the Heros. SO when we do get to play we might be able to get in on 1 or 2 TF IF we are lucky. so what will take your other player a week to get enough merits to purchas a new set it takes casual players weeks or even months to get the same thing. People say just buy em off the black market. My answer to them is when a single IO cost hundreds of millions to get and I cant spend 16-20 hours a day farming infamy it takes just as long.
So In ending this system just does not work for casual players. Increase drop rates or make merits obtainable in other ways so the casual player can keep up.
As for story arcs, I have already done 90% of them before this issue. Retro rewarding merits for arcs completed by a character would be nice. Otyherwise I have to find some way to go redo them which seems to be a waste of time for me. Already done it now I have to waste my limited time going back and redoing everything I already did. So in turn It limits me getting to experience the new content because I am scrambling to find a way to redo what story arcs I already completed and then pray that I still get the merits.
I know that you all love for us to give feedback.
Now I want some.
The merits have seriously changed the face of the game and it's not fun.
Where are you headed with this? You know how we feel about them; you know our issues with them. 900 more posts that contain the same information isn't going to make the issue more clear.
I'm not renewing my subscription until the system changes. It's no longer worth playing.
I earned my 744 merits. I tried your content. I've given you my feedback.
"You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting."
Hey Odyne, since you aren't coming back.. ever, can I have some recipes from those 744 merits? Some top 3s would be nice 
Myself I am very happy with merits though it needs some tweaks.
My main complaint is there is no incentive to actually play through all of the content. I have suggested before in various posts that some kind of counter in each mission of a TF/SF giving you greater merit rewards for clearing maps would be nice.
A friend of mine recently suggested that while in a TF if you kill x amount of minions you get a merit. X amount of LT's you get a merit and so on and so forth. Same for bosses and AVs. Please reward those of us who do not skip through your content. Yes I can speed run. With the current system i do do alot of that when im on a full team that is exemplared down to the TF or is all 50s. However if anyone on the team is getting xp we clear just about everything for them. Often times we run with entire teams getting xp. Stop punishing us for using the content as it was intended.
Also Purple recipes. Currently (unless i missed it i suck at searching for stuff) there is no merit option for these. So the only way to keep getting these is through random drops. Which means it still benefeits the farmers. This needs to be changed either by giving a merit cost (based on current recipes im thinking around the 350 to 400 mark) or a TF/SF that grants you a random drop like the STF/RSF do for a hami.
For those of you complaining that you no longer get your random recipe after a TF you do. You just have to go to the merit vendor and use 20 merits to get that. I agree that all TFs should give a minimum 20 so they still give that random roll but think of the fact that you gain merits in so many other areas like the Ouro TFs, story arcs, and giant monsters.
If you wish to gamble you can still gain recipes at the same rate as you could pre issue 13. For myself I choose not to gamble and will enjoy all the steadfast protections, luck of the gamblers and celerity stealths on my toons that I never had before because I simply could not afford them because I despise farming.
If you choose to continue farming and buy your recipes great more power to you. Once I get all my luck of the gambler 7.5s (which I almost have allready) Ill happily earn merits for you and let you purchase them for 80 million.
*readies fire extinguisher*
<QR>
I got my Broadsword/Shield Scrapper to level 27. Running my story arcs, no task forces yet. Less than 50 merits. Can't afford anything except a couple of level 20 SOs and some random Inspirations. Yeah. Ok. Maybe when I get to 40 I'll have enough merits to actually get something with.
What's worse is that I don't even know what my goal is. I can't look at meritnpc's list and find a number to shoot for because he won't show me anything that I can't already afford.
*Merits Awarded* "Cool! Let's go talk to meritdude and see what I can get for my merits!" *sigh* "Still nothing."
It's disheartening, and it's not fun.
As a way for level 50s to solo farm flashback storyarcs for merits maybe it's a good deal. I don't know because I don't farm. But for someone who started a brand new character and runs only story arcs in an unsuccessful attempt to get enough merits to do anything with, the system appears like it was build specifically by and for the farmers.
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I got my Broadsword/Shield Scrapper to level 27. Running my story arcs, no task forces yet. Less than 50 merits. Can't afford anything except a couple of level 20 SOs and some random Inspirations. Yeah. Ok. Maybe when I get to 40 I'll have enough merits to actually get something with.
What's worse is that I don't even know what my goal is. I can't look at meritnpc's list and find a number to shoot for because he won't show me anything that I can't already afford.
*Merits Awarded* "Cool! Let's go talk to meritdude and see what I can get for my merits!" *sigh* "Still nothing."
It's disheartening, and it's not fun.
As a way for level 50s to solo farm flashback storyarcs for merits maybe it's a good deal. I don't know because I don't farm. But for someone who started a brand new character and runs only story arcs in an unsuccessful attempt to get enough merits to do anything with, the system appears like it was build specifically by and for the farmers.
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Disheartening? Not fun? Try buying 10 random rolls that get you nothing but garbage... recipes you can't use and are worthless on the market. Or you can save up 200-250 merits to buy ONE good recipe. Now that's fun, right?...
Thus far I have bought eight random rolls, only one has not been vendor fodder.
I echo the concerns that we can't see what we're gambling on.
Together we entered a city of strangers, we made it a city of friends, and we leave it a City of Heroes. - Sweet_Sarah
BOYCOTT NCSoft (on Facebook)
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Governments have fallen to the power of social media. Gaming companies can too.
Ah... I see the mistake I made with my wording. I should have made it clear that I am not talking about random rolls.
I'm talking specifically about wanting to save my merits up and get a special IO recipe. But I have no idea how many merits I need, so I have no idea how long it will take or what to shoot for.
My character has like 34 or 36 merits. How much does a Steadfast Protection +3% Special Defense IO cost? 50 merits? 400? I don't know because meritdude won't show me the full list. The only thing that I see is stuff that I can already afford, which is basically nothing. Sad, discouraging, not fun.
And there's no way in Hades I'm gonna spend the merits on a random 'Pool D' roll. What the heck is a Pool D? And where are pools A, B and C? Yes, I actually do know what they are, but a lot of people who just play the game and don't spend time on the forums have no idea.
And yes, I could just go to ParagonWiki to look up the merit costs I suppose. Heaven forbid if anything actually be documented in game. Imagine being a new player trying to figure all of this out.
Peregrine Falcon, are you sure you don't just have the Hide Recipes Missing Ingredients box checked on the drop down at the vendor? I can pull up all the prices for every recipe out there with a toon that has exactly zero merits on them.
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I got my Broadsword/Shield Scrapper to level 27. Running my story arcs, no task forces yet. Less than 50 merits. Can't afford anything except a couple of level 20 SOs and some random Inspirations. Yeah. Ok. Maybe when I get to 40 I'll have enough merits to actually get something with.
What's worse is that I don't even know what my goal is. I can't look at meritnpc's list and find a number to shoot for because he won't show me anything that I can't already afford.
*Merits Awarded* "Cool! Let's go talk to meritdude and see what I can get for my merits!" *sigh* "Still nothing."
It's disheartening, and it's not fun.
As a way for level 50s to solo farm flashback storyarcs for merits maybe it's a good deal. I don't know because I don't farm. But for someone who started a brand new character and runs only story arcs in an unsuccessful attempt to get enough merits to do anything with, the system appears like it was build specifically by and for the farmers.
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My Crab spider that I am working on right now has almost 100 merits at level 29. Mostly from doing task forces as that is how I like to level. The nice thing about it for me is because of merits its easier to get a TF going. However a good deal are from story arcs. I do not farm. Which is why i like the system. I can play through content and still be rewarded without killing hordes of minions over and over in the same mission. I tend to use Ouro at 50 to go back and do the story arcs I havent. I do not do that to farm them.
Also completing missions still gives you a random chance to aquire a recipe just like before. So for your playstyle nothing really has changed except you also get merits now instead at the end of a Story Arc. It may be a small cookie but its still a cookie.
Also next time you go to the merit vendor check your filters. I think you might have the do not show recipe's missing ingrediants fliter on. You can look at the merit cost of any recipe your level and below. The merit cost has no bearing on the level of the recipe. A recipe is worth the same for a level 10 version as it is for a level 30 version of the same recipe. Honestly makes no sense to me but thats the way it is.
On example of a really good recipe that is cheap are the steadfast protection knockback resistance. If I remember correctly they are either 75 or 125. Either way that isnt too bad really considering that in all the time since they were put in with the amount of TF's I run I never had one drop. Now I have 3 on each veat that I am playing up.
*readies fire extinguisher*
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Peregrine Falcon, are you sure you don't just have the Hide Recipes Missing Ingredients box checked on the drop down at the vendor? I can pull up all the prices for every recipe out there with a toon that has exactly zero merits on them.
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Whoops. I just logged on and it looks like that's exactly what was happening. Thanks.
I withdrawn that objection, but now I have another.
Stuff costs WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYY too many merits. My Scrapper will be 50 before I have enough merits to get anything. You know, actually getting to use some of those set IOs would make the game a lot more fun than simply staring at them in the window.
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Thus far I have bought eight random rolls, only one has not been vendor fodder.
I echo the concerns that we can't see what we're gambling on.
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Isnt that the point of gambling though. You never know what you will get.
However I really think they should put out some official lists of what recipe's are in what random roll selections. I still would rather save my merits and use them for the insanely expensive recipe's and use my money to buy the bulk of the affordable ones. So far it seems to be working out for me doing it that way.
*readies fire extinguisher*
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Ah... I see the mistake I made with my wording. I should have made it clear that I am not talking about random rolls.
I'm talking specifically about wanting to save my merits up and get a special IO recipe. But I have no idea how many merits I need, so I have no idea how long it will take or what to shoot for.
My character has like 34 or 36 merits. How much does a Steadfast Protection +3% Special Defense IO cost? 50 merits? 400? I don't know because meritdude won't show me the full list. The only thing that I see is stuff that I can already afford, which is basically nothing. Sad, discouraging, not fun.
And there's no way in Hades I'm gonna spend the merits on a random 'Pool D' roll. What the heck is a Pool D? And where are pools A, B and C? Yes, I actually do know what they are, but a lot of people who just play the game and don't spend time on the forums have no idea.
And yes, I could just go to ParagonWiki to look up the merit costs I suppose. Heaven forbid if anything actually be documented in game. Imagine being a new player trying to figure all of this out.
[/ QUOTE ]Actually Pool D is the only random roll that is worth it from a usuable standpoint and a selling standpoint as long as you choose the lvl range of 30-34 to roll in. You have only 1 bad recipe that gets drop that way while the others are good.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
For the people who say the cost is too high try a few things. Create a new toon or choose a lvl 50 to exemplar with. Use the guides on City of Data so you choose contacts that actually give real missions. Do the content set the the minimum lvl on your lowbie or flashback lvl 50. Go thru all the contacts in the lists on City of data for the level range that give arcs. You should get close to 40 merits per level range whether you are hero or villain. The key to it is pick only one toon to do this on. Do it when teaming is slow at certain times of the day. Dont do it when there is the possiblity of TF/Raids. For those using flashback do not forget that you can use the Pilar of Ice and Flame to teleport directly to the contact to cut down on the travel time. Heroside once you get into the 40s range the arcs are alot longer so they maybe harder to do flashback in a timely manner.
Lastly the key to making this work as painless as possible is you can not play the way you use to play and still expect to get alot of merits. No more playing it on invincible. This really is to your advantage so it doesnt take as long to get the merits. Dont worry about the exp until the 30s, you will have more than enough exp to level to the next lvl range doing it on the lowest setting if you do all of the content if for some reason you dont there is always TFs to get past that level point. Lvl 50s activate your second build whether you know it or not there maybe some contacts you missed. By activating the second build those contacts get added. If they are lower level content then thats just free merits for little to no effort. You can rack up alot of merits fast this way. Read the announcements in the channels especially for GM citings. I know for my winter lord hunting team we killed the Ghost of the Scrapyard everytime he came up in between winter lords. THats easy merits there.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
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Peregrine Falcon, are you sure you don't just have the Hide Recipes Missing Ingredients box checked on the drop down at the vendor? I can pull up all the prices for every recipe out there with a toon that has exactly zero merits on them.
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Whoops. I just logged on and it looks like that's exactly what was happening. Thanks.
I withdrawn that objection, but now I have another.
Stuff costs WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYY too many merits. My Scrapper will be 50 before I have enough merits to get anything. You know, actually getting to use some of those set IOs would make the game a lot more fun than simply staring at them in the window.
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Luckily it's a Scrapper. You have a chance to get very large chunks of merits.
"Sorry bucko, but CoH and CoV are the same game." -BackAlleyBrawler
"Silly villain, CoX is for Heroes!" -Saicho
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Peregrine Falcon, are you sure you don't just have the Hide Recipes Missing Ingredients box checked on the drop down at the vendor? I can pull up all the prices for every recipe out there with a toon that has exactly zero merits on them.
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Whoops. I just logged on and it looks like that's exactly what was happening. Thanks.
I withdrawn that objection, but now I have another.
Stuff costs WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYY too many merits. My Scrapper will be 50 before I have enough merits to get anything. You know, actually getting to use some of those set IOs would make the game a lot more fun than simply staring at them in the window.
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Luckily it's a Scrapper. You have a chance to get very large chunks of merits.
[/ QUOTE ]Scrappers and stalkers have the best setup for merits especially stalkers. Just skip to the end and do only minimum task to complete the missions.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
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just did posi again for the first time since the change to minimum team size was changed for the spawns... and it is not solo friendly anymore....
I still hate this tf and 55 merits is not enough.
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What change to spawns?
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For example, if you had 4 people on the team and all but one logged out, the missions would spawn for one person. NOW, in that situation, the missions will spawn for FOUR.
Therefore, when soloing Positron, it will always be spawning for two people since if the other person quit the TF it would disband. Previously, if they all logged out, it would spawn for just one. Under the new system, the spawn size only is reduced when people QUIT the TF.
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Correct so far as it goes.
Under the new system, the spawn size never goes below the minimum number needed to start the task force. In the case of Positron, that number is three. By comparison, in the case of Dr. Quarterfield, that's eight.
Together we entered a city of strangers, we made it a city of friends, and we leave it a City of Heroes. - Sweet_Sarah
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Governments have fallen to the power of social media. Gaming companies can too.