Discussion - Dev Diary: Designing Day Jobs Feature

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I find it funny that people that log their characters in and do nothing to get certain badges are complaining about badges where they have to do half the work to do nothing to get them. People will truly complain about anything.

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Have you not been paying attention to the fact that we don't like the idea of getting badges for nothing? Most badgers I know want to see the "farm" badges changed or removed completely from the game. Most of us aren't that big on the Veteran badges, either. As has been stated in this thread, though, we're not speaking out as much about those right now because they're already in the game, and there's not much we can do to stop them.

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And what is it with people wanting to be the first to have all the badges or being so glad that they have more than someone else? Who gives a crap? The only one cares is you. I wish people would understand that the only competition between players in MMO games is in PvP.

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That's an incredibly ignorant remark. Badgers compete in their own community, the same way PVPers compete in theirs. Sometimes people are members of both, and sometimes they're not.

You're basically trying to say that bowling isn't a competition just because you prefer basketball.

---

Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093

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The Badge Hound's lament that they need to get every badge should be vigorously ignored by the development team, for, in the end, it's a demand that the devs do not put in so much content that they can't do it all. In the end, it's a brake on the development of the game. It's the equivalent of demanding an amusement park that's not so large that they can't go on every ride in a single day.

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Zomb, I like you generally.

However, today, not so much.

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Quit personalizing the issue. You don't have to hate people you disagree with.



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Yeah, I'm a badge hound. Yeah, I'm a vocal opponent of the proposed Day Jobs system. What YOU'RE not hearing (or accepting), however, is the reason WHY.

Here it is. Get ready. Put on your Guide Man cap so you get a grasp.

"Getting a badge for doing nothing isn't fun."

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For *you*. It's great fun for *me.*




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I'll tell you this right now: If this system went live, I'd get the badge before anyone here. Why? Cuz you're right: I'm a badger. Big freakin' deal. I'd do it at 10 days, 15, and gods forbid, 30.

That doesn't make it fun. That doesn't make it thematically sensible. That doesn't take away from the fact that the badge recording times are REALLY FRICKIN' OUT THERE.

Rewards for being logged out of a toon isn't "content". But that's what you're supporting, while turning a blind eye to the valid (and, I hope, equally constructive) complaints from the segment of the populace that knows WTH badges take to earn the MOST.

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I reject your implication that badge hounds have more expertise in game design simply because this mini-game involves badges. Would an alcoholic be necessarily the best wine connoisseur in the world?




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A reward for doing nothing is not a badge. You're right: Neither is Empath. Neither is Immortal. Neither are the vet badges. If I had my way, I'd see THEM removed from the badge system too.

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If you can see why Empath is a broken badge, then a rational person would ignore it. If you can see why the badges associated with Day Jobs are not like the other badges, then a rational person would ignore them. If you're claiming you have the inability to simply ignore it, then you are admitting you have a problem and are in the same company with the one who admits they have an OCD.



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But SINCE we're in a period where we DO have the opportunity to add constructively to the discussion BEFORE The system is implemented, as a caring player it's my right and responsibility to present these arguments to the populace, and to the Developers. THAT's why this is a forum, and not a bulletin page where we can't participate.

Something that people will shoot back to me is that, whenever someone complains about wanting the Vet Badge Rewards earlier on the badges forum, my single word answer is "Cope." That's because the system's already set.

Here, we enjoy the ability to give our two cents to other players, and the Developers, in order to make the game BETTER. By encouraging people to "vigorously ignore those people", instead of rising to the discussion and OFFERING input or compromise, you do NOTHING to add to the benefit of the readers.

Zombie, NEVER encourage the populace to ignore each other. Because at the end of the day, all that encourages is ignorance.

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Reread please. I said that the *lament* should be ignored, not the hounds. The lament is a demand that all badges should be obtainable on one toon. And that lament is a straitjacket to development of content *and minigames* such as badging. It is that straitjacketing of game development that should soundly be ignored.

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Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides

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"Getting a badge for doing nothing isn't fun."


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For you. For a casual player with a lot of alts, having a surprise waiting for them when they log back into a character they haven't used for a while is a nice start to a gaming session.

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A nice surprise != Fun.


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For you.

In all seriousness, not all of us are 100% Achievers. It's nice to have rewards for other styles of play (or, dare I say it, not play )

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A good number of the badgers out there are 100% completionists--or at least we'd like to be. I bet you that Beef Cake has done every story arc with his main badger.

Though I personally am against non-playing rewards, the only reason I'm complaining at all are the badges. If not for those, I would simply not use the system, but tying badges in basically forces me to in order to stay competitive and strive for 100%.

If you guys want non-badge rewards for logging out, help yourselves. I simply don't care.

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Accomplishments aren't always fun and fun doesn't necessarily have to be derived from accomplishments. There is nothing wrong with rewards that cater to different kinds of people.

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True enough, but badges were designed to be an accomplishment for doing something in the game. Now they're saying, "don't play, get free badges!" That leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

Again, if you guys want non-badge rewards for logging out, knock yourselves out. Whatever makes you happy. I don't want 'em, I don't care about 'em, and I won't pursue them.

(Logging out for 30 days to get badges ASAP won't make me or any competitive badger happy, though. Sure, you say we don't have to... but that's not what we're telling ourselves.)

---

Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093

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"Getting a badge for doing nothing isn't fun."

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For *you*. It's great fun for *me.*

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I'm sorry, I find this hard to believe.

It might just be that we have different definitions of the word "fun." Yours sounds like "If something makes me happy, then I'm automatically having fun," though I could be wrong.

My definition of fun is, "I'm doing something, and I enjoy working towards completing it." I'm "working" on getting the Empath badge, but I'm not enjoying it; it is not "fun."

(I also don't find games like Tetris or Bejewelled to be fun, because, as per my definition, there's no end to them--proof right there that different people's definition of fun varies.)

---

Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093

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The Badge Hound's lament that they need to get every badge should be vigorously ignored by the development team, for, in the end, it's a demand that the devs do not put in so much content that they can't do it all. In the end, it's a brake on the development of the game. It's the equivalent of demanding an amusement park that's not so large that they can't go on every ride in a single day.

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Zomb, I like you generally.

However, today, not so much.

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Quit personalizing the issue. You don't have to hate people you disagree with.



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Yeah, I'm a badge hound. Yeah, I'm a vocal opponent of the proposed Day Jobs system. What YOU'RE not hearing (or accepting), however, is the reason WHY.

Here it is. Get ready. Put on your Guide Man cap so you get a grasp.

"Getting a badge for doing nothing isn't fun."

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For *you*. It's great fun for *me.*




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I'll tell you this right now: If this system went live, I'd get the badge before anyone here. Why? Cuz you're right: I'm a badger. Big freakin' deal. I'd do it at 10 days, 15, and gods forbid, 30.

That doesn't make it fun. That doesn't make it thematically sensible. That doesn't take away from the fact that the badge recording times are REALLY FRICKIN' OUT THERE.

Rewards for being logged out of a toon isn't "content". But that's what you're supporting, while turning a blind eye to the valid (and, I hope, equally constructive) complaints from the segment of the populace that knows WTH badges take to earn the MOST.

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I reject your implication that badge hounds have more expertise in game design simply because this mini-game involves badges. Would an alcoholic be necessarily the best wine connoisseur in the world?




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A reward for doing nothing is not a badge. You're right: Neither is Empath. Neither is Immortal. Neither are the vet badges. If I had my way, I'd see THEM removed from the badge system too.

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If you can see why Empath is a broken badge, then a rational person would ignore it. If you can see why the badges associated with Day Jobs are not like the other badges, then a rational person would ignore them. If you're claiming you have the inability to simply ignore it, then you are admitting you have a problem and are in the same company with the one who admits they have an OCD.



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But SINCE we're in a period where we DO have the opportunity to add constructively to the discussion BEFORE The system is implemented, as a caring player it's my right and responsibility to present these arguments to the populace, and to the Developers. THAT's why this is a forum, and not a bulletin page where we can't participate.

Something that people will shoot back to me is that, whenever someone complains about wanting the Vet Badge Rewards earlier on the badges forum, my single word answer is "Cope." That's because the system's already set.

Here, we enjoy the ability to give our two cents to other players, and the Developers, in order to make the game BETTER. By encouraging people to "vigorously ignore those people", instead of rising to the discussion and OFFERING input or compromise, you do NOTHING to add to the benefit of the readers.

Zombie, NEVER encourage the populace to ignore each other. Because at the end of the day, all that encourages is ignorance.

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Reread please. I said that the *lament* should be ignored, not the hounds. The lament is a demand that all badges should be obtainable on one toon. And that lament is a straitjacket to development of content *and minigames* such as badging. It is that straitjacketing of game development that should soundly be ignored.

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Show me this lament of not being able to get every badge that you're telling everyone to ignore. AFAIK, it's all been primarily "not fun", "ridiculously long, should be shorter", and "what's with all the dayjobs, that makes no sense".

Re: Alcoholism comparison. Your calling a badger an alcoholic is one viewpoint. From ours, I think we'd call ourselves the wine conoisseurs. You can be one without being the other. From the opinions we've provided so far, I'd say we're the latter.

Re: Lumping me with OCD: At which point did you cease to take this personally? So far, being called an alcoholic and OCD misfit instead of matching a rational discussion is more "Internet Argument" tactics than I'd expect here.

Maybe I shoulda quoted the whole post. I took umbrage to your lumping all dissenting opinion to the Day Jobs proposal as being the product of hyped up badgeheads who don't typify your definition of the "regular player", and as such should be ignored. That's how you presented it, that's what I responded to.

Participate, don't shut out. Unless you've got a redname, you lack authority.

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(Logging out for 30 days to get badges ASAP won't make me or any competitive badger happy, though. Sure, you say we don't have to... but that's not what we're telling ourselves.)

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And really, whose problem is that?

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De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.

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"Getting a badge for doing nothing isn't fun."


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Maybe for you but it sounds pretty good to me.

So when the servers are down for maintenance I can earn a new badge. Cool!



A day job is a passive process that occurs in real world time when the player is not logged in. A mini game that gives you extra choices to help develop your character and collect badges for accomplishing a task.

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jeeeez 30 freakin days?? screw that, not even gonna touch the day job thing.

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One can tell that the devs are really going to need to stress that whole non-consecutive part.

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Exactly. I think this is the part people are missing. It is accumulated time, not consecutive.

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~ Infinity Heroes ~
Dark Voltage - 50 NRG/NRG/EM Blaster
Shure Shot - 50 Arch/NRG/MM Blaster
Silent Shadow Blade - 50 Katana/SR/BM Scrapper
Uphir - 50 Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster

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jeeeez 30 freakin days?? screw that, not even gonna touch the day job thing.

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One can tell that the devs are really going to need to stress that whole non-consecutive part.

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Exactly. I think this is the part people are missing. It is accumulated time, not consecutive.

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I should macro this response...

No, we get that it's not consecutive, it was in the original article.

Read the link in my sig for my POV, CodeJ. It's got nothing to do with "getting more badges".

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Who gives a crap? The only one cares is you.

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pssst ... they care about your view as much as you care about theirs.

Think about that one.

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What I'm getting at is they want all the badges so they can show off that they have all the badges. Who cares if they have all the badges? I sure as hell don't.

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~ Infinity Heroes ~
Dark Voltage - 50 NRG/NRG/EM Blaster
Shure Shot - 50 Arch/NRG/MM Blaster
Silent Shadow Blade - 50 Katana/SR/BM Scrapper
Uphir - 50 Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster

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I find it funny that people that log their characters in and do nothing to get certain badges are complaining about badges where they have to do half the work to do nothing to get them. People will truly complain about anything.

And what is it with people wanting to be the first to have all the badges or being so glad that they have more than someone else? Who gives a crap? The only one cares is you. I wish people would understand that the only competition between players in MMO games is in PvP.

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Whatcha gonna do, CodeJ, tell me to cope?

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yes.

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~ Infinity Heroes ~
Dark Voltage - 50 NRG/NRG/EM Blaster
Shure Shot - 50 Arch/NRG/MM Blaster
Silent Shadow Blade - 50 Katana/SR/BM Scrapper
Uphir - 50 Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster

Ok lets look at i13 Day Jobs vs. i14 Mission Architect.

First the proposed MA

Here we have play created content to strengthen the overall CoX world. At least 1 person to create the mission and 1 or more to play said mission. This can encourage both Role Playing and Story Telling. But unless this user created mission is tagged by the Devs, it will not have the full XP, INF, and Drops. Also kills dont count toward badge totals. This is in place to prevent farms or at least thats the reason already given.

Now look at Day Jobs.
No Content because you aren't playing. No building the CoX community becasue you aren't playing. What do you get for not playing possible XP, INF, or Drop BONUSES. And you earn Badges.

Now think about that.

MA the players are penalized for playing with less rewards.
DJ the players are reward for not playing.

There's just something wrong there in the thought process.

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I find it funny that people that log their characters in and do nothing to get certain badges are complaining about badges where they have to do half the work to do nothing to get them. People will truly complain about anything.

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Have you not been paying attention to the fact that we don't like the idea of getting badges for nothing? Most badgers I know want to see the "farm" badges changed or removed completely from the game. Most of us aren't that big on the Veteran badges, either. As has been stated in this thread, though, we're not speaking out as much about those right now because they're already in the game, and there's not much we can do to stop them.

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And what is it with people wanting to be the first to have all the badges or being so glad that they have more than someone else? Who gives a crap? The only one cares is you. I wish people would understand that the only competition between players in MMO games is in PvP.

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That's an incredibly ignorant remark. Badgers compete in their own community, the same way PVPers compete in theirs. Sometimes people are members of both, and sometimes they're not.

You're basically trying to say that bowling isn't a competition just because you prefer basketball.

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1.) If you don't want the badges that require you to do nothing, then don't get them. If you truly don't like the badges that require you to do nothing you will still try to get them because of the jealousy towards the people that will get them because they decided to do nothing and since you must have more than others you are stuck getting them. However, the argument, I think, is not that you don't want to get them you just want them quicker.

2.) Your comparison is wrong. Bowling is a competitive sport, you compete for points against another person. The fact that people created a competition on who as the most badges is a biproduct of the system. It's like 2 people competing to see who can buy the most sports cars.

The system is designed to give your alts perks while they are logged off. Big deal. The logged off time accumulates to get a badge, big deal. Why is it so important to have them all? I just don't get it.

---

~ Infinity Heroes ~
Dark Voltage - 50 NRG/NRG/EM Blaster
Shure Shot - 50 Arch/NRG/MM Blaster
Silent Shadow Blade - 50 Katana/SR/BM Scrapper
Uphir - 50 Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster

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What I'm getting at is they want all the badges so they can show off that they have all the badges. Who cares if they have all the badges? I sure as hell don't.

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Obviously the badgers care.

But that isn't really the issue here: unless the devs regularly add new day jobs the way they promised to add Veteran's Rewards, badgers will eventually get all the Day Job badges anyway. The question is whether "time logged out" is a good metric for awarding a badge, and if so how much time logged out it should take.

-D

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Darkonne: Pinnacle's (unofficially) mighty Dark Miasma/Radiation Blast enthusiast!

Be sure to check out this mighty Arc:
#161865 - Aeon's Nemesis

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Accomplishments aren't always fun and fun doesn't necessarily have to be derived from accomplishments. There is nothing wrong with rewards that cater to different kinds of people.

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True enough, but badges were designed to be an accomplishment for doing something in the game. Now they're saying, "don't play, get free badges!" That leaves a sour taste in my mouth.


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I'm afraid that argument was lost over 51 months ago. The precedent was set and we've all survived, even if not everyone likes it.

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Again, if you guys want non-badge rewards for logging out, knock yourselves out. Whatever makes you happy. I don't want 'em, I don't care about 'em, and I won't pursue them.

(Logging out for 30 days to get badges ASAP won't make me or any competitive badger happy, though. Sure, you say we don't have to... but that's not what we're telling ourselves.)

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As odd as this may sound, I don't see why hard-core badgers should have a monopoly on how new badges are introduced into the game. The badge mini game is there for all of us, not just you. Badges from the day job mini game may favor the casuals and/or altaholics, but it doesn't exclude the hard-core badgers. It may take longer than you like and acquiring the badge may be unsatisfying for you, but there's nothing preventing you from getting the badges. All that's required is logging out at a certain spot and patience. There's nothing wrong with badges that reward different styles of play. Would you also object to new badges with PvP as a requirement?

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Gothika (Grav/Kin) Marionette (Ill/Rad) Terra Firma (Earth/Storm) Alana Dale (Arch/Nrg)
Iceblink (Ice/Dark) Fantasia (Mind/Fire) Shadow Minx (Claws/Nin)
--Virtue

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but i still think 30 days per badge is ALOT of time logged off to earn something

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Do you play while sleeping? Remember this 30 Days can be non-consecutive time offline. That means 720 hours offline time to earn the badge. Assuming 8 hours sleeping and 8 hours away from your PC while at work or school, that would mean 45 days on average to earn a badge.

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As odd as this may sound, I don't see why hard-core badgers should have a monopoly on how new badges are introduced into the game. The badge mini game is there for all of us, not just you. Badges from the day job mini game may favor the casuals and/or altaholics, but it doesn't exclude the hard-core badgers. It may take longer than you like and acquiring the badge may be unsatisfying for you, but there's nothing preventing you from getting the badges. All that's required is logging out at a certain spot and patience. There's nothing wrong with badges that reward different styles of play. Would you also object to new badges with PvP as a requirement?


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Brilliant!

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As odd as this may sound, I don't see why hard-core badgers should have a monopoly on how new badges are introduced into the game.

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This is true for just about any MMO mechanic. Letting the hardcore players dictate the game design based on their personal desires usually doesn't work out very well.

Edit: Unless the game itself is geared toward the hardcore. Lookin' at you, EVE.

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De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.

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but i still think 30 days per badge is ALOT of time logged off to earn something

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Do you play while sleeping? Remember this 30 Days can be non-consecutive time offline. That means 720 hours offline time to earn the badge. Assuming 8 hours sleeping and 8 hours away from your PC while at work or school, that would mean 45 days on average to earn a badge.

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The problem is that they want the badges quicker because they are impatient.

---

~ Infinity Heroes ~
Dark Voltage - 50 NRG/NRG/EM Blaster
Shure Shot - 50 Arch/NRG/MM Blaster
Silent Shadow Blade - 50 Katana/SR/BM Scrapper
Uphir - 50 Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster

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1.) If you don't want the badges that require you to do nothing, then don't get them. And, the argument is not that you don't want them you just want them quicker.

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I actually don't want them to exist, period. This is like giving a kid an "A" because he had better things to do than his homework.

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2.) Your comparison is wrong. Bowling is a competitive sport, you compete for points against another person. The fact that people created a competition on who as the most badges is a biproduct of the system. It's like 2 people competing to see who can buy the most sports cars.

The system is designed to give your alts perks while they are logged off. Big deal. The logged off time accumulates to get a badge, big deal. Why is it so important to have them all? I just don't get it.

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If I want more badges than Beef Cake, that's still a competition.

If two players want to race to level 50, that's a competition.

If two millionaires each want to try and buy more sports cars than the other? Guess what? STILL A COMPETITION.

You don't like badgers. I don't like football. Know how I handle that? I don't watch football. I don't waste my time by telling the players that they're wasting theirs.

---

Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093

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Off course if you play long enough there will be the day job where you get the time acceleration bonus where time moves faster for you.

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but i still think 30 days per badge is ALOT of time logged off to earn something

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Do you play while sleeping? Remember this 30 Days can be non-consecutive time offline. That means 720 hours offline time to earn the badge. Assuming 8 hours sleeping and 8 hours away from your PC while at work or school, that would mean 45 days on average to earn a badge.

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The problem is that they want the badges quicker because they are impatient.

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You've completely, utterly, staggeringly, amazingly, and stupendously missed the point.

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A good number of the badgers out there are 100% completionists--or at least we'd like to be.

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Hardcore badgers are a minority, statistically, in the game. The 100% completionist hardcore badgers are a minority of a minority. I mean, just looking at Badge-Hunter's stats, there are better than 58,500 characters registered. So let's say, for the sake of argument, that this is a good representation of characters that's likely to include the hardcore badgers.

Because we have to set a cut-off, let's say that we can define someone as a 100% completist if they currently have at least 90% of the badges available on their side. For heroes, this gives us 385 characters with at least 532 badges out of 592. For villains, this gives us 133 characters with at least 463 out of 515 badges. So we have 385+133 = 518 characters that have at least 90% of the badges on their respective sides. That's less than 1% of the registered characters on the website, who should reflect the most dedicated, hardcore, competitive badgers.

You can quibble with my choice of cut-offs (or the fact that the database probably includes characters for people who've long since quit the game when the badge cap was much lower, or the fact that I subtracted 60 instead of 59.2 ) if you like, but we're talking a small percent of a small percent here. It's not that your voices aren't important, it's that they aren't proportionally *more* important than any other small percent of a small percent. Badges are available to everyone, after all, and making a decision about them to satisfy a pretty small group of hardcore collectors doesn't seem like it would be the best path for the devs to take.

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True enough, but badges were designed to be an accomplishment for doing something in the game.

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This was demonstrably untrue even before vet rewards. As soon as they gave one-time awards of badges for events where all you had to do was log in, or where you got a special badge when you bought a certain product, badges stopped being "an accomplishment for doing something in the game" and started being "a reward we can use in a variety of fashions."

I happen to like the proposed implementation. I wouldn't mind a shorter time-frame, but given that a character can become a "Professor" in 30 days, while it took me 14.5 years of higher education and work just to get to be a rank below "Professor," 30 days doesn't seem that bad.

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My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.

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So when the servers are down for maintenance I can earn a new badge. Cool!

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So when I move cross-state and have to wait 2 weeks for net, I can earn a new badge. Cool!

So when one of my children is sick and I have to sit up in the hospital with them for close to a week, I can earn a new temp power. Cool!

So if I need to unplug for awhile, I can get a welcome back trinket. Cool!

Don't look at it as an award... look at it as an incentive for you to take a break from the fake place more often (that, or they could start spamming, "Take a break, you've been logged in for X hours." messages in your chat box; like they do in Guild Wars.

Heck, look at it as an incentive to draw back players who have a tendency to take extended breaks without deleting their accounts (they've been doing a lot of that lately).

Look at it as an incentive to not get stuck on one toon. If you already have 20 alts... then content is not the issue; chances are you've seen most of it.

Even view it as a way to lessen liability in the event the internet becomes the target of various class action suits because people are becoming overly obsessed with some aspect of it causing social or physical problems which they'll try to blame on an addiction to MMORPGing.

There are many changes that are more geared for one segment of the CoX population than it is for another; whether it's RPers, PvPers, PvEers, Min/Maxers, Badgers, Casual players, Hardcore Players, Farmers, Marketeers, Prodigal Players, PLers, etc...

Badgers got the Flashback system in I11 (and the Candy Cane system last winter event)

Maybe, as I said, this one doesn't have your 'needs' as a priority... it's not like you CAN'T get all of the badges and it's not like most of your badge toons aren't near the irrelevant level of 50 anyway or close enough to clearing their badge wishlist to where (gosh forbid) they can take a break to get these extra ones.

I'm trying to picture what a level 50 badgehunter really needs to have their toon active consistantly for besides farming, PLing, marketeering and PvPing (which IMO, badgehunter PvPers exemplaring down to SC is weaksauce to the extreme being that Badge powers don't get greyed out and unbalance the PvP field to those who want to PvP and haven't farmed or powerbadged their way into their abilities by the time they hit 30 - same at vet powers).

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Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars

[ QUOTE ]

My definition of fun is, "I'm doing something, and I enjoy working towards completing it."

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't find parties fun? Or a concert? Or a date? (though that last one I suppose could fit your definition if it's only a means to an end )

As far as it applies to an in-game reward, perhaps 'fun' isn't the best word to use if the semantics bothers you. In my book, if the game system makes me feel good then it's worth having. Logging into the game and getting a badge and sometimes a temp power every once in a while would make me feel good, so it's well worth having.

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Gothika (Grav/Kin) Marionette (Ill/Rad) Terra Firma (Earth/Storm) Alana Dale (Arch/Nrg)
Iceblink (Ice/Dark) Fantasia (Mind/Fire) Shadow Minx (Claws/Nin)
--Virtue