Discussion - Dev Diary: Designing Day Jobs Feature

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these are rewards for doing nothing, after all.

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Therein lies the problem.

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If anything, we need more unique badges that require substantial time and skill investments.

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Therein lies the solution.

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Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093

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Personally, I am in favor of it because it gives me something I can compete in Work 9-10 hours a day, have a wife, daughter, house, run a fairly successful RPG for my friends, and need to eat and sleep I'm lucky to log in a few hours a week lately. Rested EXP and a few badges to show what Kid Bang is up to in his spare time is nice

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He was referring to Venture, with whom you appear to share a birthday. He's been particularly virulent and pompous in his replies. He'll prolly make my ignore list too by the end of the day. I'd prolly do well in avoiding his home server too, if this is any indication of what to find there. :P

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Venture is Venture. He's not, as near as I can tell, quite like anyone else, and his style doesn't typify anywhere I've been in the game (I mainly play on Virtue, where he's a mod of one of the big global channels).

I don't always appreciate the way he approaches dialogue on the internet, but I'll be damned if the man isn't consistent. I just figured out this afternoon that he was able to consistently make me angry on the Usenet 13-14 years ago.

That being said, I agree with a meaningful chunk of what he's said to Chad. Now that Chad's taken a step back and seems to be mainly advocating shorter time requirements for the badges, though, I think discussions of his OCD have stopped being relevant.

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My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.

Here's my question. Does my hero or villain stay in my day job location and wander around working his little heart out while I'm away? Meaning can I log in as an alt go to the hospital or something and see my other hero doing his day job? I think this would be pretty sweet but there have to be some technical limitations to allowing this such as overcrowding/lag.

Also I think it would be nice to have a job associated with supergroup bases. Just my opinion.

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Is this the future of CoH/V in that players complain of too much content?

Even before xp smoothing it was very easy to outlevel arcs at lower levels. People complained. They got Flashbacks.

But what will happen when hundreds of players develop missions for the Mission Architect and there is just not enough time in the day to play through them all? Will you demand a limit on player submissions?

What will happen if they develop PvP zones and games such that it will take a year to excel in them all and get their corresponding badges... and as you do so, they keep adding more zones and games such that you can never keep up?

The Badge Hound's lament that they need to get every badge should be vigorously ignored by the development team, for, in the end, it's a demand that the devs do not put in so much content that they can't do it all. In the end, it's a brake on the development of the game. It's the equivalent of demanding an amusement park that's not so large that they can't go on every ride in a single day.

We should be hoping that there's so much content and games and systems that no one person or toon can do it all.

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Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides

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Here's my question. Does my hero or villain stay in my day job location and wander around working his little heart out while I'm away? Meaning can I log in as an alt go to the hospital or something and see my other hero doing his day job? I think this would be pretty sweet but there have to be some technical limitations to allowing this such as overcrowding/lag.

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HAH! A constructive idea! We must demolish it now!

Seriously: I think this is a nifty thing to request. Maybe not for I13's release, but it would be awesome to see the NPCs in a hospital, let's say, show the face models of anyone who's logged out at that flagged location. Click on 'em, and they respond, "What? It's a living."

XD

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While that would be cool, shaqua, I doubt it. That would really beat a beating on the servers to have to account for all the characters even if they are logged off.

And I said the said thing about Supergroup Base. I want the job of Layabout

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If anything, we need more unique badges that require substantial time and skill investments.

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Therein lies the solution.

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That may include badges you aren't skilled enough to earn. Is it still OK?

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Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.

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If anything, we need more unique badges that require substantial time and skill investments.

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Therein lies the solution.

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That may include badges you aren't skilled enough to earn. Is it still OK?

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::chuckle:: For me, that includes the Skiing badges.

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Is this the future of CoH/V in that players complain of too much content?

Even before xp smoothing it was very easy to outlevel arcs at lower levels. People complained. They got Flashbacks.

But what will happen when hundreds of players develop missions for the Mission Architect and there is just not enough time in the day to play through them all? Will you demand a limit on player submissions?

What will happen if they develop PvP zones and games such that it will take a year to excel in them all and get their corresponding badges... and as you do so, they keep adding more zones and games such that you can never keep up?

The Badge Hound's lament that they need to get every badge should be vigorously ignored by the development team, for, in the end, it's a demand that the devs do not put in so much content that they can't do it all. In the end, it's a brake on the development of the game. It's the equivalent of demanding an amusement park that's not so large that they can't go on every ride in a single day.

We should be hoping that there's so much content and games and systems that no one person or toon can do it all.

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STILL my hero!

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If anything, we need more unique badges that require substantial time and skill investments.

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Therein lies the solution.

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That may include badges you aren't skilled enough to earn. Is it still OK?

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::chuckle:: For me, that includes the Skiing badges.

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Including the newer epic ski badges for this year's event. And yes, if I failed at that, I'd cry like a mewling pup. But I'd do it again until I beat it. It's an achievement.

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If anything, we need more unique badges that require substantial time and skill investments.

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Therein lies the solution.

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That may include badges you aren't skilled enough to earn. Is it still OK?

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As long as it's possible for any character, even if it's currently outside of my gaming ability, then yes. I'll work and get better at it. If it comes down to it, I'll get someone else to help me. Heck, 4½ years on my Super Reflexes Scrapper, and I'm still learning new tidbits that help me play him a little bit better.

I got the skiing badges last winter for several of my SG mates because they had problems controlling themselves during the effects of a Speed Boost. (Though it's highly possible that their problems were due to lag or underpowered machines--not everyone can build their own gaming rig.)

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Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093

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This issue is probably going to be a headache for the Mid's team.

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Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars

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If anything, we need more unique badges that require substantial time and skill investments.

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Therein lies the solution.

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That may include badges you aren't skilled enough to earn. Is it still OK?

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::chuckle:: For me, that includes the Skiing badges.

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Including the newer epic ski badges for this year's event. And yes, if I failed at that, I'd cry like a mewling pup. But I'd do it again until I beat it. It's an achievement.

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And even when you fail, at least you're having fun.

And when it stops being fun, you can go run some missions until you're ready to try it again.

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Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093

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Snow_Globe isn't completely off his rocker here. There is an intrinsic value to the badge system that actual badge collectors provide. Unless it is required for an accolade or other unlockable, only completists really go after, or even care about things like explore badges, or many of the defeat badges. The devs have sent mixed messages about the badge system by statement and action for as long as the badge system has been in place. It is not unambiguously a given that players just aren't supposed to be able to get all the badges as Venture claims. In an absolute sense, that's technically true, but the devs have always hoped that the players would pursue everything else.

You can't tell people "be a collector, of some stuff." That's incompatible with the collector mindset, and a good game designer should acknowledge the target audience they are targetting. If the devs are targetting people who care enough to pursue some of the badges with no meaning beyond collection, and will happily ignore all the ones that are designed to be out of reach, they are targetting a phone booth: there aren't bound to be lots of people like that.

*If* the devs push the collector mindset too far, they could devalue badge collecting past a tipping point, and simply eliminate collectors from the system. The only people left would be the ones who would only pursue badges if there was something else in it for them. And in that case, badges cease to be a meaningful reward item in the game. They would only be a game mechanical contrivance to act as a placeholder to unlock the *true* rewards.

That is a gameplay loss of some value. Why its not a higher priority to address is something that I'm honestly not sure about. It almost seems like the Powers That Be think its something they can fix whenever they want, so its a low priority. I'm not sure I agree. I don't think there's any danger *now* to the badge system, but I also believe that the first sign I detect that it is in danger will be when its dead. We're not going to have swimming polar bears giving us a hint.

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Bravo Arcanaville.

Probably one of the very best posts in the forum from all these years.

Too bad Posi will never EVER understand or pay heed to that message.

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The only thing worse than devs making bad decisions is the hoard of fanboys and bootlickers that keep cheering them on.

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The Badge Hound's lament that they need to get every badge should be vigorously ignored by the development team, for, in the end, it's a demand that the devs do not put in so much content that they can't do it all. In the end, it's a brake on the development of the game. It's the equivalent of demanding an amusement park that's not so large that they can't go on every ride in a single day.

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Zomb, I like you generally.

However, today, not so much.

Yeah, I'm a badge hound. Yeah, I'm a vocal opponent of the proposed Day Jobs system. What YOU'RE not hearing (or accepting), however, is the reason WHY.

Here it is. Get ready. Put on your Guide Man cap so you get a grasp.

"Getting a badge for doing nothing isn't fun."

I'll tell you this right now: If this system went live, I'd get the badge before anyone here. Why? Cuz you're right: I'm a badger. Big freakin' deal. I'd do it at 10 days, 15, and gods forbid, 30.

That doesn't make it fun. That doesn't make it thematically sensible. That doesn't take away from the fact that the badge recording times are REALLY FRICKIN' OUT THERE.

Rewards for being logged out of a toon isn't "content". But that's what you're supporting, while turning a blind eye to the valid (and, I hope, equally constructive) complaints from the segment of the populace that knows WTH badges take to earn the MOST.

A reward for doing nothing is not a badge. You're right: Neither is Empath. Neither is Immortal. Neither are the vet badges. If I had my way, I'd see THEM removed from the badge system too.

But SINCE we're in a period where we DO have the opportunity to add constructively to the discussion BEFORE The system is implemented, as a caring player it's my right and responsibility to present these arguments to the populace, and to the Developers. THAT's why this is a forum, and not a bulletin page where we can't participate.

Something that people will shoot back to me is that, whenever someone complains about wanting the Vet Badge Rewards earlier on the badges forum, my single word answer is "Cope." That's because the system's already set.

Here, we enjoy the ability to give our two cents to other players, and the Developers, in order to make the game BETTER. By encouraging people to "vigorously ignore those people", instead of rising to the discussion and OFFERING input or compromise, you do NOTHING to add to the benefit of the readers.

Zombie, NEVER encourage the populace to ignore each other. Because at the end of the day, all that encourages is ignorance.

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"Getting a badge for doing nothing isn't fun."

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... I love you.

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Rewards for being logged out of a toon isn't "content". But that's what you're supporting, while turning a blind eye to the valid (and, I hope, equally constructive) complaints from the segment of the populace that knows WTH badges take to earn the MOST.

A reward for doing nothing is not a badge. You're right: Neither is Empath. Neither is Immortal. Neither are the vet badges. If I had my way, I'd see THEM removed from the badge system too.

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Agreed. Or /signed. Or whatever the forum monkeys need to see to know that I'm completely on the same page.

Nobody's arguing that there's too much content. The argument has pretty consistently been that this adds zero content; and if you feel the need to attack badges the way some of us do, it ends up being negative content.

I won't consider a Day Job to be content until they add a mini game where I flip burgers at Up-N-Away Burger. I'll take a badge for that over not accessing my character any day.

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Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093

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"Getting a badge for doing nothing isn't fun."


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For you. For a casual player with a lot of alts, having a surprise waiting for them when they log back into a character they haven't used for a while is a nice start to a gaming session.

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Gothika (Grav/Kin) Marionette (Ill/Rad) Terra Firma (Earth/Storm) Alana Dale (Arch/Nrg)
Iceblink (Ice/Dark) Fantasia (Mind/Fire) Shadow Minx (Claws/Nin)
--Virtue

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"Getting a badge for doing nothing isn't fun."


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For you. For a casual player with a lot of alts, having a surprise waiting for them when they log back into a character they haven't used for a while is a nice start to a gaming session.

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So make it something else. It's not a badge. It's charity.

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"Getting a badge for doing nothing isn't fun."


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For you. For a casual player with a lot of alts, having a surprise waiting for them when they log back into a character they haven't used for a while is a nice start to a gaming session.

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A nice surprise != Fun.

I frequently forget what day it is as I approach the 3 month period of my Veteran Rewards. Inevitably, I'll log in and see "Badge Earned!" My reaction isn't to jump up and down and tell all my friends about how entertaining it was to get the extra badge just for playing for another three months. I go, "Oh, cool," and then (hopefully) go run some missions... which are fun.

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Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093

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I find it funny that people that log their characters in and do nothing to get certain badges are complaining about badges where they have to do half the work to do nothing to get them. People will truly complain about anything.

And what is it with people wanting to be the first to have all the badges or being so glad that they have more than someone else? Who gives a crap? The only one cares is you. I wish people would understand that the only competition between players in MMO games is in PvP.

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~ Infinity Heroes ~
Dark Voltage - 50 NRG/NRG/EM Blaster
Shure Shot - 50 Arch/NRG/MM Blaster
Silent Shadow Blade - 50 Katana/SR/BM Scrapper
Uphir - 50 Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster

the devs keep chanting the same manta every time they have adjusted down the xp for a certain monster or group "risk vs Reward",ok call me stupid I see the reward, where is the risk? other than not playing a toon and forgetting about it, i almost feel as they are setting us up for a big nerf, and then they can point back and say but we gave you tXXXX. and where is the fun value to NOT playing a toon?
and of course the smart players if they find a good spot for their day job/patrol that is NOT known to the players, they will not tell anyone as to keep it a secret.

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Fluffy Bunny 1 Person SG
Rabid Bunny 1 Person VG
Both on Pinnacle
Hobbit's Hole 1 Person SG
Spider's Web 1 Person VG
Both on Freedom

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Who gives a crap? The only one cares is you.

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pssst ... they care about your view as much as you care about theirs.

Think about that one.

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The only thing worse than devs making bad decisions is the hoard of fanboys and bootlickers that keep cheering them on.

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"Getting a badge for doing nothing isn't fun."


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For you. For a casual player with a lot of alts, having a surprise waiting for them when they log back into a character they haven't used for a while is a nice start to a gaming session.

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A nice surprise != Fun.


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For you.

In all seriousness, not all of us are 100% Achievers. It's nice to have rewards for other styles of play (or, dare I say it, not play )

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I frequently forget what day it is as I approach the 3 month period of my Veteran Rewards. Inevitably, I'll log in and see "Badge Earned!" My reaction isn't to jump up and down and tell all my friends

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That's odd, my reaction is exactly to jump up and down and tell all my friends! Does that make me weird?

Accomplishments aren't always fun and fun doesn't necessarily have to be derived from accomplishments. There is nothing wrong with rewards that cater to different kinds of people.

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Gothika (Grav/Kin) Marionette (Ill/Rad) Terra Firma (Earth/Storm) Alana Dale (Arch/Nrg)
Iceblink (Ice/Dark) Fantasia (Mind/Fire) Shadow Minx (Claws/Nin)
--Virtue

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I find it funny that people that log their characters in and do nothing to get certain badges are complaining about badges where they have to do half the work to do nothing to get them. People will truly complain about anything.

And what is it with people wanting to be the first to have all the badges or being so glad that they have more than someone else? Who gives a crap? The only one cares is you. I wish people would understand that the only competition between players in MMO games is in PvP.

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Whatcha gonna do, CodeJ, tell me to cope?

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