Discussion - Dev Diary: Designing Day Jobs Feature

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It should take time to earn those. I worked three years at a garage, five years doing retail, and 7 years at my current Journalism/PR gig. I consider myself able to slip back into those prior roles without trouble. Your character shouldn't need to forget the skills learned in his prior career, but it should take some time to earn those skills.

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You shouldn't have to. But you have one day job. Does your business card say "Garage Monkey / Register Monkey / Ambulance Chaser Journalist?" No: It says "Journalist". You have ONE day job, not many.

Omitting the plethora of badges would NOT impact your ability to invest time in those other skills. Behind-scenes tracking doesn't require badge markers. So you CAN work on those other skills, or show that you HAVE worked on those other skills and can acquire the accolades associated with them, without having to suddenly change your career for it.

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And you can only wear one badge at a time.

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And for those of us with legitimate mental disorders (obsessive-compulsive collecting habits)? Why benefit is gained from making us wait, inactive, and penalize us for playing the game we want to play it?

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Get professional help if you have a disorder of this magnitude centered around something that isn't tangible... don't force this disease on the rest of us

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It should take time to earn those. I worked three years at a garage, five years doing retail, and 7 years at my current Journalism/PR gig. I consider myself able to slip back into those prior roles without trouble. Your character shouldn't need to forget the skills learned in his prior career, but it should take some time to earn those skills.

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You shouldn't have to. But you have one day job. Does your business card say "Garage Monkey / Register Monkey / Ambulance Chaser Journalist?" No: It says "Journalist". You have ONE day job, not many.

Omitting the plethora of badges would NOT impact your ability to invest time in those other skills. Behind-scenes tracking doesn't require badge markers. So you CAN work on those other skills, or show that you HAVE worked on those other skills and can acquire the accolades associated with them, without having to suddenly change your career for it.

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And you can only wear one badge at a time.

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Title does not equal day job.

Unless you're saying "Slayer of Madness" is a profession. In which case, you MUST have been in retail.

@TURGENEV - Freedom Server / IRON / B.A.N.E / HORDE

Turg Fiction: Ghost in the Machine Acts III & IV coming 2012!
Turg Fiction: IX is now LIVE on Architect Entertainment!

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It should take time to earn those. I worked three years at a garage, five years doing retail, and 7 years at my current Journalism/PR gig. I consider myself able to slip back into those prior roles without trouble. Your character shouldn't need to forget the skills learned in his prior career, but it should take some time to earn those skills.

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You shouldn't have to. But you have one day job. Does your business card say "Garage Monkey / Register Monkey / Ambulance Chaser Journalist?" No: It says "Journalist". You have ONE day job, not many.

Omitting the plethora of badges would NOT impact your ability to invest time in those other skills. Behind-scenes tracking doesn't require badge markers. So you CAN work on those other skills, or show that you HAVE worked on those other skills and can acquire the accolades associated with them, without having to suddenly change your career for it.

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And you can only wear one badge at a time.

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Title does not equal day job.

Unless you're saying "Slayer of Madness" is a profession. In which case, you MUST have been in retail.

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::chuckle::

Nope, but I still have the skills from those jobs. So while I can only call myself one title at a time, I should still be able to have all those skills at my disposal.

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If you reduce the number of days to 10 it would only take 120 days to earn 12 badges, which is a bit more reasonable but still quite a bit.

It doesn't matter one stinking bit how long it's going to take to get 12 day job badges because you're not supposed to have 12 on the same character.

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If they allow you to have 12 on the same character, then you're not not supposed to have them, either.

Any badge that's attainable is fair game, and it's not a good idea to push away collectors (who are some of the most hardcore customers you'll ever meet) by saying that you have to choose whether to get a badge exactly every thirty days or wait an extra 5 days because you're playing 4 hours a day.

And all these comparisons to coin collections aren't feasible. The whole "coin of the month" idea is the same thing as Veteran Rewards (already broken, but survivably so). It doesn't preclude you from going after other coins.

If you're a die-hard collector of ANYTHING, and you have a 90% complete collection and are working out the extra difficult and time-consuming 10%, and are suddenly told that you can choose to get a brand new doohickey for every thirty days that you don't spend collecting, it's going to kill the joy of collecting. (And that's assuming you're still enjoying it and not doing so because of OCD.)

Mr. Syndrome Icon Birthday Boy, I know you keep saying that "blah blah blah, you're not supposed to be able to get them all." But the fact of the matter is that it is possible, and several of us are trying to get a complete collection.

Those of us who are shooting for the stars don't like to see the stars suddenly jump an extra year away, especially when we're told that we have to sit on autopilot if we don't want to make that year take even longer.

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Originally Posted by Nethergoat it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!

So does this mean they should stop adding badges entirely just so you can reach your goal?

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So does this mean they should stop adding badges entirely just so you can reach your goal?

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No, but I think that they should add badges more sensibly than "if you stay logged out for X seconds, you get a badge! Gnaah! Toothpaste yum!"

@TURGENEV - Freedom Server / IRON / B.A.N.E / HORDE

Turg Fiction: Ghost in the Machine Acts III & IV coming 2012!
Turg Fiction: IX is now LIVE on Architect Entertainment!

I was asking Chad. He's the one who is frustrated that they keep moving the goalposts, and that will continue happening as long as they add new badges.

And if you don't like the method of earning the badges, then don't earn them Games should be about having fun. If this isn't fun to you, you shouldn't worry about them. Me? I love the idea of giving my character something to do when I'm not around. A badge and accolade on top of it is just a cherry.

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I knew we were heading down the wrong path with the silliness of crafting badges which require you to make thousands of IOs even though a vast majority of them won't get used. But this is going even further down that wrong path.

No one is required to get these. My character builds for our supergroup, so the crafter table and memorization badges are great for me. But if you are just feeding a Gotta Get Them All mentality, you are the one being silly, not the game developers.

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And for those of us with legitimate mental disorders (obsessive-compulsive collecting habits)? What benefit is gained from making us wait, inactive, and penalize us for playing the game we want to play it?

And not everyone wants to make more alts, nor do we want to play all the alts we might already have.

(As for "Gotta Get 'Em All," yes, I've played all the Pokémon games. For every single one, I catch everything that's available in the game... then buy a $20-40 cheat device to get those that are from the alternate copy or some kind of event rewards, because it's the only way I can relax in the end.)

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As a fellow "legitimate mental disorder" (bipolar, in my case), I learned a long time ago that it was my job to fit into the world with my disorder, not the world's job to change to accomodate me.

We are a minority. Deal.

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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike English does not borrow from other languages. English follows other languages down dark alleys, hits them over the head, and rifles through their pockets for loose grammar.

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And for those of us with legitimate mental disorders (obsessive-compulsive collecting habits)? What benefit is gained from making us wait, inactive, and penalize us for playing the game we want to play it?

And not everyone wants to make more alts, nor do we want to play all the alts we might already have.

(As for "Gotta Get 'Em All," yes, I've played all the Pokémon games. For every single one, I catch everything that's available in the game... then buy a $20-40 cheat device to get those that are from the alternate copy or some kind of event rewards, because it's the only way I can relax in the end.)

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You are describing a singularly specific pathology. You can have no reasonable expectation that this pathology can be taken into account by the development team when making decisions for the game. OCD sufferers need to seek proper treatment and therapy, not whine and demand game developers enable them.
I feel you are doing a disservice to people with legitimate mental disorders.

I don't neccessarily agree that the world shouldn't try to accomdate you, but there is a difference between accommodating and focusing completely on your personalized needs. There really should be a meeting half way.

I think many (and by many I mean 99%) of people make numberous alts. I have NEVER talked to a person who made one character and played only that one. While one of your alts is not being played, it is gaining time toward the accolates and badges. You can't play every charactor, all the time... So you gain this from playing alts, no big deal.

my .02

-Garber

So, any of us military around here?

What does Airborne Infantry mean jobwise to you, or ParaRescue or Military Police or Guardsman/Reservist?

To me, the title represents a plethora of training leading up to and continuing past that one job title.

Most basic military personnel (outside of USAF) get weapons training, hand to hand training, first aid training, small unit training, drill and ceremony training, orienteering training, home ed training, basic security training, hazmat training, vehicle training, communications training, etc with a specialization/emphasis on whatever their career field may hold.

Even in home construction, a well-trained crewman will be trained in carpentry, bricklaying, electrical wiring, plumbing, roofing, tiling, insulating, sheetwalling, painting, etc... all legitimate jobs in themselves (lets not even get into commercial construction)

Did anyone ever watch an old TV show called 'The Fugitive'?

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And for those of us with legitimate mental disorders (obsessive-compulsive collecting habits)? What benefit is gained from making us wait, inactive, and penalize us for playing the game we want to play it?

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I'm introverted and shy. As a result, I solo nearly all the time. I think it's been a few months since I joined a team in the game. I can't form my own teams, and I don't stick with a team very long when I do team. Even so, I don't ask the devs to make all content solo friendly. I expect TFs and trials to be team content, and I simply don't do them. I do occasionally ask the devs to make contact missions more solo friendly, but I don't expect them to comply.

There's nothing wrong with asking the devs to make the Day Jobs more badger friendly, but keep in mind that they're catering to a large audience. They want the day jobs to mean something to players, especially roleplayers, and not simply be a frivolous way to earn a bunch of new badges.

The devs aren't out to penalize you, they're looking at coming up with a system that works best for the majority of players. That may mean reducing the time to earn badges... or not.

If they allow you to have 12 on the same character, then you're not not supposed to have them, either.

Irrelevant.

Any badge that's attainable is fair game, and it's not a good idea to push away collectors (who are some of the most hardcore customers you'll ever meet) by saying that you have to choose whether to get a badge exactly every thirty days or wait an extra 5 days because you're playing 4 hours a day.

It's not a good idea to cater to an extreme minority, either.

If you're a die-hard collector of ANYTHING, and you have a 90% complete collection and are working out the extra difficult and time-consuming 10%, and are suddenly told that you can choose to get a brand new doohickey for every thirty days that you don't spend collecting, it's going to kill the joy of collecting.

If every second I spend eating, sleeping, working, reading, walking in the park across the street, etc. counts towards that thirty days I'd have to say it's a sweet deal.

Mr. Syndrome Icon Birthday Boy, I know you keep saying that "blah blah blah, you're not supposed to be able to get them all." But the fact of the matter is that it is possible, and several of us are trying to get a complete collection.

Don't do that, then.


Those of us who are shooting for the stars

You're not shooting for the stars. It's a gorram video game. If you want a "sense of accomplishment" I suggest scaling Mt. Kilimanjaro, or perhaps just volunteering for community service.

I tried, I really did. I tried to read the entire berdillion pages. I made it to 8.

I am a badger. I am a 51 month vet. And I like to have as many badges as I can. The problem with a lot of badgers in here in this thread is that they want them now. They want them immediately. I have a ton of alts. My badgers (1 H and 1 V) hit 50 ages ago. I essentially drag them out when there is a new badge or some new content. So resting them in a day job works for me. I have a heap of other toons to drive up the levels.

I am glad these arent instant gratification badges. I am glad they take time to earn. and I hope they dont cave and shorten the duration required to earn them.

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I don't neccessarily agree that the world shouldn't try to accomdate you, but there is a difference between accommodating and focusing completely on your personalized needs. There really should be a meeting half way.

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He played the "disorder" card. I have no patience with people who do that, and since I'm one of them I have no trouble calling them out for it.

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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike English does not borrow from other languages. English follows other languages down dark alleys, hits them over the head, and rifles through their pockets for loose grammar.

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It doesn't matter one stinking bit how long it's going to take to get 12 day job badges because you're not supposed to have 12 on the same character.

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But four or five are okay? What's the demarcation line?


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If you have more jobs than Buckaroo Banzai, then you have too many jobs.

Edit: speaking of which, we need a Rock Star job!

30 days is not very long at all.

Even if you play the character 12 hours a day every single day - that still means they'll get the 30 days logged out badge in 2 months. Without you doing anything other than logging them out at the same place every night.

Alternatively you can get all your characters a badge every month. It's 3 times faster than veteran rewards.

30 days seems perfectly fine.

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I don't neccessarily agree that the world shouldn't try to accomdate you, but there is a difference between accommodating and focusing completely on your personalized needs. There really should be a meeting half way.

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He played the "disorder" card. I have no patience with people who do that, and since I'm one of them I have no trouble calling them out for it.

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Agreed, I was just saying for you specifically, you were saying that you don't expect the world to accommodate you, and I consider that unfair too

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I posted a similar response on another thread, but I feel this is the best interpretation of my viewpoint I may type:

The purpose of the Badge system, as stated by Posi on several occasions, was never to be able to obtain all the badges on a single character. Obviously, many players don't feel this way, but that's the design philosophy stated by the devs.

In an RP sense, your character is working during the day - one could even call it a career. One doesn't get ahead in a career by being lethargic- one has to dedicate time and effort to make a career worthwhile. Eventually, the hard workers are rewarded for their dedicated service.

One argument is that it rewards people for doing nothing. However, how is this any different from Veterans' Rewards? Both require active accounts over X amount of time.

One difference is that Vet Rewards are earned for total time, not just offline time. However, it's usually a given that a player will eventually log off, or at least play another character. Really, the system is geared more for altitis, but badges in general are each geared for specific activities (healing others, taking damage, persistent hunting, etc.). It might not be so beneficial for players who don't play many characters, but there again, healing badges aren't so beneficial for my Tank.

When compared to the Vet Reward badges, the requirements for these badges are nothing. I can literally earn them in my sleep, and at a faster rate than Vet Rewards.

That's my 2 cents.

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I was asking Chad. He's the one who is frustrated that they keep moving the goalposts, and that will continue happening as long as they add new badges.

And if you don't like the method of earning the badges, then don't earn them Games should be about having fun. If this isn't fun to you, you shouldn't worry about them. Me? I love the idea of giving my character something to do when I'm not around. A badge and accolade on top of it is just a cherry.

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I have no problems with them adding new badges. I like that they add new badges, in fact, because it temporarily enables me to do things other than arena farming--which, as I've mentioned, I hate and is no fun.

I (and every other badger I've seen post here for that matter) just want them to create badges based on gameplay. What's the point of having a tangible reward for not playing the game for 2.6M seconds?

You guys want your temp buffs and what-not? Go ahead. I don't want the buffs or temp powers. I just want the badges. I'm okay with not getting them all "Now now now now NOOOOW!!!" but I'd like to earn them for actually actively doing something.

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Originally Posted by Nethergoat it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!

Yeah, there are a lot of other jobs I hope they look into...

Politician - City Hall
Bouncer - Golden Giza
Layabout - Group Base

That's what I get for skimming, they already have City Official

This is totally off track. I doubt anyone but the poeple forum-jousting are even reading this anymore. Venture is just baiting and antagonizing the Collecter guys with OCD, and they are bickering back. I was hoping to see some sort of redname response to the opinions of the forumites, but 40 pages of personal arguments isnt going to garner any official response. Cut it out guys! Constructivityness!