Discussion - Dev Diary: Designing Day Jobs Feature

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1.) If you don't want the badges that require you to do nothing, then don't get them. And, the argument is not that you don't want them you just want them quicker.

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I actually don't want them to exist, period. This is like giving a kid an "A" because he had better things to do than his homework.

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2.) Your comparison is wrong. Bowling is a competitive sport, you compete for points against another person. The fact that people created a competition on who as the most badges is a biproduct of the system. It's like 2 people competing to see who can buy the most sports cars.

The system is designed to give your alts perks while they are logged off. Big deal. The logged off time accumulates to get a badge, big deal. Why is it so important to have them all? I just don't get it.

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If I want more badges than Beef Cake, that's still a competition.

If two players want to race to level 50, that's a competition.

If two millionaires each want to try and buy more sports cars than the other? Guess what? STILL A COMPETITION.

You don't like badgers. I don't like football. Know how I handle that? I don't watch football. I don't waste my time by telling the players that they're wasting theirs.

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I see what you are saying. You don't want them to exist because you don't want someone to get something you aren't willing to try and get. Fair enough, doesn't make it a valid point.

Also you are still don't get what I'm saying about competition. Yes, players have created a competition, but badges were not designed or intended as a competition between players. They were designed as a way to represent each characters progression in the game world. The fact that players compete to see who can get the most doesn't mean that new badges have to revolve around the biproducts of the system.

I also never said I hated badgers. I like to badge every now and then. Infact my main has damn near 550 badges, but I also accept the fact that I probably will never have all of them nor do I care that someone else has more than me.

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~ Infinity Heroes ~
Dark Voltage - 50 NRG/NRG/EM Blaster
Shure Shot - 50 Arch/NRG/MM Blaster
Silent Shadow Blade - 50 Katana/SR/BM Scrapper
Uphir - 50 Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster

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but i still think 30 days per badge is ALOT of time logged off to earn something

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Do you play while sleeping? Remember this 30 Days can be non-consecutive time offline. That means 720 hours offline time to earn the badge. Assuming 8 hours sleeping and 8 hours away from your PC while at work or school, that would mean 45 days on average to earn a badge.

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The problem is that they want the badges quicker because they are impatient.

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You've completely, utterly, staggeringly, amazingly, and stupendously missed the point.

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Ok, explain to me how I missed the point. You said you think 30 days it too long to earn somethin which tells me you want them quicker. It is pretty simple.

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~ Infinity Heroes ~
Dark Voltage - 50 NRG/NRG/EM Blaster
Shure Shot - 50 Arch/NRG/MM Blaster
Silent Shadow Blade - 50 Katana/SR/BM Scrapper
Uphir - 50 Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster

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As odd as this may sound, I don't see why hard-core badgers should have a monopoly on how new badges are introduced into the game.

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This is true for just about any MMO mechanic. Letting the hardcore players dictate the game design based on their personal desires usually doesn't work out very well.

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I'm just saying make badges as a result of doing stuff, not as a result of NOT doing stuff. I can't see how anyone, regardless of "hardcore badger" status, could be objecting to that.

If you're a hardcore badger, then you can probably see my point, whether you agree with it or not. (I don't recall anyone saying "I have tons of badges and am totally stoked about getting these, too!")

If you're not a badger, then what do you care whether or not you get a badge for your Day Jobs, as long as you get the promised associated reward?

And if you're an anti-badger like CodeJunkie and Venture, then what exactly do you get from dictating that, "yes, we absolutely need to make badges for Day Jobs just so the badgers can't have them." Seriously, I want to know: what's in it for you?

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Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093

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Oh, one possible suggestion:

To get away from the stigma fo being rewarded for not playing, what about if time spent playing other characters counted more? I mean, if you log out and stop playing it takes 24 hrs to get a day job benefit, but every hour of that 24 that you are playing another of your characters advances that 24hr clock by 2hrs?

Not sure if thats clear, but the idea is that actually actively alting accrues bonuses faster than simply not playing the game at all.

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Hmmm. I just thought of something. Is this some insidious plot by the Devs to provide a solution to lag on the servers? Reward people for not playing so that the load on the servers is less by encouraging people not to be online.

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And if you're an anti-badger like CodeJunkie and Venture, then what exactly do you get from dictating that, "yes, we absolutely need to make badges for Day Jobs just so the badgers can't have them." Seriously, I want to know: what's in it for you?

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I am not an anti-badger, stop putting words in my mouth.

---

~ Infinity Heroes ~
Dark Voltage - 50 NRG/NRG/EM Blaster
Shure Shot - 50 Arch/NRG/MM Blaster
Silent Shadow Blade - 50 Katana/SR/BM Scrapper
Uphir - 50 Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster

The problem it seems is that some of the badgers feel that they are being forced to do nothing for a badge. You are not being forced to do anything. And, it is your character that is earning a badge for doing a particular job, not you earning a badge for doing nothing.

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~ Infinity Heroes ~
Dark Voltage - 50 NRG/NRG/EM Blaster
Shure Shot - 50 Arch/NRG/MM Blaster
Silent Shadow Blade - 50 Katana/SR/BM Scrapper
Uphir - 50 Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster

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Looks good to me.
My evil half laughs wickedly at all the badge rushers that won't be able to "rush" these.

Mwa. Haha. mwahahaha.

The rested xp thing will do wonders for people with my playstyle (if others exist...): alt-aholics who cycle between 5-10 alts per week, and who don't care much about specific content because you've seen it all before, but just enjoy the chase of leveling a new character up.

I'm very curious to see how the bonus mission drops work out.

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Guides: Dark Armor and IOs | SS/DA | Crabbing | Fortunata

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I'm just saying make badges as a result of doing stuff, not as a result of NOT doing stuff. I can't see how anyone, regardless of "hardcore badger" status, could be objecting to that.

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There are badges for getting mezzed and collecting debt, which are pretty much the antithesis of playing the game well. I don't see much difference between 'time spent in a sleep, hold, or stun', 'debt collected', and 'time spent offline'. None of these are ostensibly achievements, but they're tracked anyway.
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Seriously, I want to know: what's in it for you?

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I get a cool badge that lets me display a title.

Seriously. There's one or two of my characters that it would be neat to have 'Security Chief' on. I like getting badges for titles, mainly. I went and grabbed the exploration badge out by the floating truck in the D last Winter's Event just so I could parade around with 'Trucker' under my name.

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De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.

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My definition of fun is, "I'm doing something, and I enjoy working towards completing it."

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You don't find parties fun? Or a concert? Or a date? (though that last one I suppose could fit your definition if it's only a means to an end )

As far as it applies to an in-game reward, perhaps 'fun' isn't the best word to use if the semantics bothers you. In my book, if the game system makes me feel good then it's worth having. Logging into the game and getting a badge and sometimes a temp power every once in a while would make me feel good, so it's well worth having.

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Sorry, that was my definition of "fun playing video games." Different contexts and all that.

I like concerts, though I like very few bands. I don't like parties. And dates (I never think of them as a means to an end, by your implications... I'm a gentleman ) are entirely dependant on who I'm with, where we go, and whether or not I'm so nervous that I'm visibly sweating. I've had dates that were lots of fun, and dates that were, uh, "fun" for everybody else to watch due to schadenfreude.

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Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093

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technically, they are not doing 'nothing'... even if viewed as an award... take it as an award for having a life (QoL feature?)

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Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars

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I think that the time might be a little long, but not that much. If you break down the numbers, 30 days is 720 hours which is actually 90 8-hour days, or 3 months of work.

I think it should be shortened to 528 hours, or 22 full days. Which then equals 66 8-hour days, or 3 months minus weekends.

It's not a big change, only 8 days.. but it RP's well if you think about it.

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You don't hit smiling monsters - Sister Flame

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technically, they are not doing 'nothing'... even if viewed as an award... take it as an award for having a life (QoL feature?)

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There ya go.

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~ Infinity Heroes ~
Dark Voltage - 50 NRG/NRG/EM Blaster
Shure Shot - 50 Arch/NRG/MM Blaster
Silent Shadow Blade - 50 Katana/SR/BM Scrapper
Uphir - 50 Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster

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Badges should be about showing your commitment to the game. It's about getting rewards for your hard work and dedication not to mention patience in farming completely annoying tasks.

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I (and every other badger I've seen post here for that matter) just want them to create badges based on gameplay. What's the point of having a tangible reward for not playing the game for 2.6M seconds?

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Badges are signs of a variety of achievements that can be gotten in various ways and are being engineered more and more so that a variety of playstyles are included. I am glad that more and more badges are seen as out of reach by more and more people (but most badges are still obtainable by most people). Everyone should have some badges they view as unavailable or unobtainable by them or by their playstyle choices, IMO.

Making all badges forever be achieved in the same manner as previous badges is not a direction I want to see the game take. I want to see more and more variety in the types of badges created, not less.

30 days sounds fine to me. So does 20 and so does 40. 15 and 45 seem a little too short or too long. 10 seems very short and 50 seems very long. 1 month just seems like a good period of time to me.

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Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.

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technically, they are not doing 'nothing'... even if viewed as an award... take it as an award for having a life (QoL feature?)

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There ya go.

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I play an MMO. I have no life. Duh.

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Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093

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technically, they are not doing 'nothing'... even if viewed as an award... take it as an award for having a life (QoL feature?)

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There ya go.

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I play an MMO. I have no life. Duh.

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I'm sorry.

---

~ Infinity Heroes ~
Dark Voltage - 50 NRG/NRG/EM Blaster
Shure Shot - 50 Arch/NRG/MM Blaster
Silent Shadow Blade - 50 Katana/SR/BM Scrapper
Uphir - 50 Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster

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I'm just saying make badges as a result of doing stuff, not as a result of NOT doing stuff. I can't see how anyone, regardless of "hardcore badger" status, could be objecting to that.

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Because you have to log out in a certain spot to play the mini game. Nothing is a concept that describes the lack or absence of anything at all. Picking a spot to log out is your choice to play or not to play. Don't like it then you can opt out and skip the mini game. For the rest of us this sounds like a nice perk and I'll take a badge anyway I can get one.

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I'm just saying make badges as a result of doing stuff, not as a result of NOT doing stuff. I can't see how anyone, regardless of "hardcore badger" status, could be objecting to that.

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There are badges for getting mezzed and collecting debt, which are pretty much the antithesis of playing the game well. I don't see much difference between 'time spent in a sleep, hold, or stun', 'debt collected', and 'time spent offline'. None of these are ostensibly achievements, but they're tracked anyway.
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Seriously, I want to know: what's in it for you?

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I get a cool badge that lets me display a title.

Seriously. There's one or two of my characters that it would be neat to have 'Security Chief' on. I like getting badges for titles, mainly. I went and grabbed the exploration badge out by the floating truck in the D last Winter's Event just so I could parade around with 'Trucker' under my name.

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Which is fair enough, but the question wasn't directed at players like you (not that I mean that in a bad way).

Your response is, in fact, valued and refreshing, as someone who collects CERTAIN badges, but not ALL badges.

I myself have a SS/Invuln Brute called "B1zZ3rK" who was sent by Dreck to shape up the Freakshow in the Rogue Isles. I purposely hunted down enough Freak bosses so I could use /settitle to have it say "Tank Smasher" under his name.

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Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093

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technically, they are not doing 'nothing'... even if viewed as an award... take it as an award for having a life (QoL feature?)

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There ya go.

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I play an MMO. I have no life. Duh.

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I'm sorry.

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Smart alec.

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Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093

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Agreed, I don't want everything "now now NOW!" I just want it in a reasonable amount of time.

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"Reasonable amount of time" is entirely subjective. I think the time they've set the badges at looks about right. Obviously you don't. Neither one of us is 'right' because what's reasonable is just an opinion. So keep in mind when you say "I just want it in a reasonable amount of time", everyone's definition of reasonable is different.

I'll say this much though: better to err on the side of a long timer because if it's set too short, people will get all the badges quickly and then there'll be no other badges for them to get.

I think a lot of people in this thread don't really realize how much their characters are really offline, Heal farms excepted. But then it's not intended that someone get a Heal badge using a Heal farm anyway. In fact, the more people who do that and get the badge that way, the less likely Positron will ever change the requirement to something more reasonable.

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QFT. And what players dont seem to realize is that ALL their offline characters will simultaneously be getting time toward the Day Job badges.

So basically, once the first 60 days have passed, pretty much every characters you own will now have access to a FREE bonus you didnt even had to really work for.

How is that not cool?

People really complain about a gifted horse in this case. Its not even funny. Its sad.

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I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

Voltaire

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but i still think 30 days per badge is ALOT of time logged off to earn something

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Do you play while sleeping? Remember this 30 Days can be non-consecutive time offline. That means 720 hours offline time to earn the badge. Assuming 8 hours sleeping and 8 hours away from your PC while at work or school, that would mean 45 days on average to earn a badge.

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The problem is that they want the badges quicker because they are impatient.

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You've completely, utterly, staggeringly, amazingly, and stupendously missed the point.

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Ok, explain to me how I missed the point. You said you think 30 days it too long to earn somethin which tells me you want them quicker. It is pretty simple.

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Explain to me how one toon can have twenty or thirty day jobs. (Trizz, do NOT post that youtube here!)

Explain to me how it fits into the current badge design to reward passivity. (And we know about AFK farms, we know about vet rewards, and we think there's a better way for THAT too.)

Explain to me how changing the Day Job reward to a single badge, instead of 20+, is a bad thing.

I threw in the "30 days is really long" because, well, it is, but the above are the crux of my arguments. I can live with the 30 days IF the other items are addressed.

It's just that simple.

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So basically, once the first 60 days have passed, pretty much every characters you own will now have access to a FREE bonus you didnt even had to really work for.

How is that not cool?

People really complain about a gifted horse in this case. Its not even funny. Its sad.

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I abhor the idea of being coddled and given freebies in a game that don't require me playing it, specifically in the sense that time spent playing means time not earning. If not for the badges, I'd just go off in my own "Meh." corner and ignore that Day Jobs were ever even added.

Well, there's also the 2xXP * 1 bar for every 24 hours you spend logged out. I don't like that much either, and you can't avoid it. But it also doesn't matter terribly to me, since I pretty much only play with my 50s at this point.

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Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093

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A toon is not concurrently holding 20+ day jobs, he's holding one job at a time... what the toon does have however, once they get 20-30 of these badges is more akin to a certificate of accomplishment, completion, graduation, time-served, merit badge, service ribbon, whatever.

Holding 30 of these badges doesn't mean that you are working all of these jobs at the same time... it just means that you've gotten enough training in each of these tasks that you are qualified to do any of these 20-30 tasks (at least in basic capacity) if asked to do so.

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Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars

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I'm just saying make badges as a result of doing stuff, not as a result of NOT doing stuff. I can't see how anyone, regardless of "hardcore badger" status, could be objecting to that.


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I am not a hardcore badger, but I understand your point. However, the point of doing something for a badge, kinda blows itself in the foot when it comes to "spend time in X zone badges."

How many people have gotten the "spend time in zone" badges without actually being at their computer? (Incase it's an exploit, I am not stating how to do it.)

Or, the infamous damage badge trick? Which also lets you not log off, go to sleep, and wake up with a badge or two.

Isn't this the same principle as staying in one place and actually logging off?

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You don't hit smiling monsters - Sister Flame

People change jobs all the time. If you want to have all the jobs get them and if you don't, don't. You can only display one title, but wouldn't an easier solution be to not allow players to see each others badges?

You are essentially stating that you don't want to have a way to allow other players to obtain more badges than you simply because you don't want to get them in the manor they were designed.

I still believe nothing needs to change about them. If the devs decide to change the amount of time it takes to get them then so be it. There is nothing inherently wrong with the system as currently stated.

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~ Infinity Heroes ~
Dark Voltage - 50 NRG/NRG/EM Blaster
Shure Shot - 50 Arch/NRG/MM Blaster
Silent Shadow Blade - 50 Katana/SR/BM Scrapper
Uphir - 50 Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster

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A toon is not concurrently holding 20+ day jobs, he's holding one job at a time... what the toon does have however, once they get 20-30 of these badges is more akin to a certificate of accomplishment, completion, graduation, time-served, merit badge, service ribbon, whatever.

Holding 30 of these badges doesn't mean that you are working all of these jobs at the same time... it just means that you've gotten enough training in each of these tasks that you are qualified to do any of these 20-30 tasks (at least in basic capacity) if asked to do so.

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This is better than what I just said.

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~ Infinity Heroes ~
Dark Voltage - 50 NRG/NRG/EM Blaster
Shure Shot - 50 Arch/NRG/MM Blaster
Silent Shadow Blade - 50 Katana/SR/BM Scrapper
Uphir - 50 Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster