Discussion: Forum Rules Revision
By
Absinth_Incubus,
Posted on: 2008-07-21 13:00 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
Hmmmm.... that's quite possible, Arcanaville, especially in light of what was just said regarding /signed. Maybe the point of the rule is to outlaw threads that aren't really looking to change the game but are actually trolls. Well, I'll try using your way next time I find something I think is seriously too strong.
P.S. Piggs: rats, foiled again!!
[ QUOTE ]
Of course, I've recently PM'ed about a thread that was a clear rules violation which went unlocked, so my faith in the efficacy of even using the report button is pretty low.
[/ QUOTE ]
It sounds like one of two things, or possibly both need to happen.
1) The moderators need to step up consistency. I'm giving the respondants in this thread the benefit of the doubt that their reporting of threads has been on what the the community would generally agree were reasonable grounds for moderator action.
2) If, for some reason, moderator action is deemed not required but the reporting simultaneously seemed earnest, some sort of reply, possibly in the thread in question (to cut down on PMs), may be in order.
I have to say I find the conditions for bullet (2) to be almost too narrow to imagine, but I wanted to allow for the possibility. However, I would suggest that someone notifying moderators about a thread should always PM an explanation either to Koschej himself or to an appointed general moderator PM box which all moderators can monitor in a rotating fashion. This might help ensure that the mods clearly understand why you think a thread needs moderation. Perhaps what seems really obvious isn't always, so sending a PM is a way to help be sure.
BTW, what is up with the "you can't reply here" thing?
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
As for consistency, I will remind you once again that these are proprietary forums and we can allow or disallow any posts on these forums at our discretion. The other rules are the guidelines to be followed, the proprietary rule is the overall rule there.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is exactly the reason things got into the state they are/were in. This is also the reason why nobody around here has a clue what is ok to post on any given day.
Make some rules, stick to them, change them if needed but this moderation on a whim hasn't been working very well for a while now.
[/ QUOTE ]
Two things.
First: Koschej, I've been trying to get anyone in a position of authority to just bluntly state that for awhile now. It's why I keep asking about policies and major respect for finally seeing someone just state it. I've always gotten prevarication and dodges instead every time before this that it came up. Since that's in a public post, can I quote it as my signature?
Second: DevilChilde is right. That hasn't worked so far. The community here has become more factional and antagonistic (Again, this is only my opinion) over the past couple of years along a pretty steady curve. Perhaps setting an overriding policy by which personal preferences and feelings play a completely valid role in deciding actions taken isn't the best way to go? Allowing personal discretion to be the overriding guideline is neither a way to appear impartial or fair. Everyone's judgment gets cloudy when something they feel proprietary about is threatened or insulted. Everyone has moments where, not even realizing it, they play favorites and perhaps take that extra stab at the 'troublemakers'. That's why you have rules instead of guidelines in the first place. From what you just stated, there are no hard and fast rules. I'm as likely to be hit because I said something that flipped someone's switch as I am because I did anything actually out of bounds of those guidelines. I'd say I've seen it happen more than once in fact.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
As for consistency, I will remind you once again that these are proprietary forums and we can allow or disallow any posts on these forums at our discretion. The other rules are the guidelines to be followed, the proprietary rule is the overall rule there.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is exactly the reason things got into the state they are/were in. This is also the reason why nobody around here has a clue what is ok to post on any given day.
Make some rules, stick to them, change them if needed but this moderation on a whim hasn't been working very well for a while now.
[/ QUOTE ]
These forums are full of "grey areas", there can't be 100% consistency at all times - that's just not feasible or dare I say possible, to enforce the rules with 100% accuracy.
And as a few people have already pointed out, in their own ways...
If they actually did so it would undoubtedly feel more than a little Draconian, and the Forums would likely have a decidely "empty feel" to them.
So they do their Jobs, by exercising their own discretion on a case by case basis - according to the rules - to the extent possible.
The Forums are a huge field - with pitch black on one side, and pure white on the other - and a big fuzzy patch of grey all the way down the middle, where the Mods do their best to keep things civil, constructive, happy, etc.
That said if you're uncertain about what you can/can't or should/shouldn't say, use your own best discretion.
IMO, I believe the Mods can generally tell whether or not a poster either has, or is at least trying to - exercise some sort of discretion (and staying within the rules) when posting.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
City of Heroes didn't fail, City of Heroes was killed. If a 747 dropped on your house, you'd say you were killed, not you failed to find a safer dwelling.
|
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
As for consistency, I will remind you once again that these are proprietary forums and we can allow or disallow any posts on these forums at our discretion. The other rules are the guidelines to be followed, the proprietary rule is the overall rule there.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is exactly the reason things got into the state they are/were in. This is also the reason why nobody around here has a clue what is ok to post on any given day.
Make some rules, stick to them, change them if needed but this moderation on a whim hasn't been working very well for a while now.
[/ QUOTE ]
These forums are full of "grey areas", there can't be 100% consistency at all times - that's just not feasible or dare I say possible, to enforce the rules with 100% accuracy.
And as a few people have already pointed out, in their own ways...
If they actually did so it would undoubtedly feel more than a little Draconian, and the Forums would likely have a decidely "empty feel" to them.
So they do their Jobs, by exercising their own discretion on a case by case basis - according to the rules - to the extent possible.
The Forums are a huge field - with pitch black on one side, and pure white on the other - and a big fuzzy patch of grey all the way down the middle, where the Mods do their best to keep things civil, constructive, happy, etc.
That said if you're uncertain about what you can/can't or should/shouldn't say, use your own best discretion.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well said, thanks!
Lighthouse
Community Relations Manager
If you have a specific in game, account, tech or billing problem please contact our Customer Support team via The Knowledge Base "Ask A Question" page.
[ QUOTE ]
However it was brought up, by Turbo-Ski I believe, that there should be a mod-digest, and this is an idea that while I am not averse to, and which will probably not happen, that I find appealing.
[/ QUOTE ]
Of course you would find it entertaining since you would crave all the attention.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
False obituary threads are considered highly improper, and knowingly posting false news of a players real-life death may result in a ban of both your forum account and your game account.
[/ QUOTE ]
Wasn't aware this was an issue on the boards... 
[/ QUOTE ]
This has not been an issue, but it was put in place merely as a preventative measure to prevent it from ever becoming an issue.
That goes for a lot of these rules in fact. You guys and gals are a great community, probably the best I have ever had the pleasure to interact with, and a lot of these rules are unnecessary, but for us to be as consistent as possible in our moderation, we needed to update things. By having these rules in place, if it ever becomes an issue, it allows us to reference a broken rule rather than make our moderation seem like an arbitrary decision.
[/ QUOTE ]
I will point out to everyone that this particular rule was in the old forum rules as well.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
[ QUOTE ]
Please use this thread to discuss the below announcement.
We have recently revised the Message Forum Rules and Guidelines that govern conduct on the Official City of Heroes Message Forums. We have worked to condense the rules to a more straightforward single list and to make them more straightforward and comprehensive. Everyone is encouraged to review them.
Click here to view the revised Message Forum Rules and Guidelines.
I want to publicly acknowledge Moderator Koschej for doing much of the work on our revised rules. Should anyone have questions or desire clarification about the rules, please post here or send a private message to any of the City of Heroes Community Team: <ul type="square">[*] Lighthouse: Community Manager[*] Ex Libris: Community Coordinator[*] Niviene: Community Moderator[*] Koschej: Community Moderator[/list]We're working hard to promote the City of Heroes Community and make the Official Message Forums a great place to visit!
[/ QUOTE ]
My only problem with the rules and how they are set up is that if I have a problem with the community manager, for example if Lighthouse were to behave inappropriately, I would have no one to take it up with as he is the Community Manager. In any other industry I would be able to complain to his boss, but in this situation I would be powerless. And that just doesn't seem right to me.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
False obituary threads are considered highly improper, and knowingly posting false news of a players real-life death may result in a ban of both your forum account and your game account.
[/ QUOTE ]
Wasn't aware this was an issue on the boards...
[/ QUOTE ]
This has not been an issue, but it was put in place merely as a preventative measure to prevent it from ever becoming an issue.
That goes for a lot of these rules in fact. You guys and gals are a great community, probably the best I have ever had the pleasure to interact with, and a lot of these rules are unnecessary, but for us to be as consistent as possible in our moderation, we needed to update things. By having these rules in place, if it ever becomes an issue, it allows us to reference a broken rule rather than make our moderation seem like an arbitrary decision.
[/ QUOTE ]
I will point out to everyone that this particular rule was in the old forum rules as well.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm just rather curious if "true" obituary threads are permitted, and how one would tell the difference.
Doom.
Yep.
This is really doom.
[ QUOTE ]
First this is great news.
The forums had become anarchic of late with the snowflake posts about nerfs and the lulzy trolling as well, glad to see the mod-nukes are being armed.
I do have one question though:
Whenver I report an exploit (and boy have I in the past two months) the canned response tells me to discuss the issue on the forums.
If I find X produces an insanely quick reward thanks to an exploit, do I continue using the Petition feature and alerting Posi/Castle or do I mention it here and risk the banstick and the collapse of the gaming infrastructure?
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't know, but if I were you. (or it were me reporting something) I would...
1. Save a draft of any and all PM's sent to Devs about the possible "exploit/bug".
2. Make sure to get and keep the read receipts.
3. Give them some time to respond, notify them again, and if you still get no answer - VERY VAGUELY hint at their being a problem about "X", but don't describe it in any detail.
This would (kind of) = "discuss the issue on the Forums", and this should hopefully minimize problems so far as an exploit being made public, yet still attract enough attention to the potential issue to have it resolved, & in theory prevent you from being banned for "delicately" bringing up said problem.
Especially when you have copies of your PM's sent to Devs or Community Mods and the Read Receipts to show that you did in fact attempt to bring it to the appropriate person's/people's attention - and gave them time to read and respond to your PM's. *shrug* 
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
City of Heroes didn't fail, City of Heroes was killed. If a 747 dropped on your house, you'd say you were killed, not you failed to find a safer dwelling.
|
[ QUOTE ]
First: Koschej, I've been trying to get anyone in a position of authority to just bluntly state that for awhile now. It's why I keep asking about policies and major respect for finally seeing someone just state it. I've always gotten prevarication and dodges instead every time before this that it came up. Since that's in a public post, can I quote it as my signature?
[/ QUOTE ]
This is actually stated by, I believe, rule 17 of the new rules. If you feel the need to quote it, I would request you quote that instead of what I have said in the discussion of it.
[ QUOTE ]
These forums are full of "grey areas", there can't be 100% consistency at all times - that's just not feasible or dare I say possible, to enforce the rules with 100% accuracy.
And as a few people have already pointed out, in their own ways...
If they actually did so it would undoubtedly feel more than a little Draconian, and the Forums would likely have a decidely "empty feel" to them.
So they do their Jobs, by exercising their own discretion on a case by case basis - according to the rules - to the extent possible.
The Forums are a huge field - with pitch black on one side, and pure white on the other - and a big fuzzy patch of grey all the way down the middle, where the Mods do their best to keep things civil, constructive, happy, etc.
That said if you're uncertain about what you can/can't or should/shouldn't say, use your own best discretion.
IMO, I believe the Mods can generally tell whether or not a poster either has, or is at least trying to - exercise some sort of discretion (and staying within the rules) when posting.
[/ QUOTE ]
Honestly, this is the best response I have seen to this and I can't think of a better way to state it.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Please use this thread to discuss the below announcement.
We have recently revised the Message Forum Rules and Guidelines that govern conduct on the Official City of Heroes Message Forums. We have worked to condense the rules to a more straightforward single list and to make them more straightforward and comprehensive. Everyone is encouraged to review them.
Click here to view the revised Message Forum Rules and Guidelines.
I want to publicly acknowledge Moderator Koschej for doing much of the work on our revised rules. Should anyone have questions or desire clarification about the rules, please post here or send a private message to any of the City of Heroes Community Team: <ul type="square">[*] Lighthouse: Community Manager[*] Ex Libris: Community Coordinator[*] Niviene: Community Moderator[*] Koschej: Community Moderator[/list]We're working hard to promote the City of Heroes Community and make the Official Message Forums a great place to visit!
[/ QUOTE ]
My only problem with the rules and how they are set up is that if I have a problem with the community manager, for example if Lighthouse were to behave inappropriately, I would have no one to take it up with as he is the Community Manager. In any other industry I would be able to complain to his boss, but in this situation I would be powerless. And that just doesn't seem right to me.
[/ QUOTE ]
There are four people on the community team as a check and balance. However if issues you have are unable to be reconciled, and you wish promote it past Lighthouse, you can go to http://support.plaync.com and submit your issue to us via the Ask a Question tab.
I would also remind everyone, that the nature of this thread is to answer your questions regarding the new rules, not to provide a place to attack moderation actions, discuss moderation that has been done, or engender non-constructive posting on this topic. Please refrain from these types of postings, as they are not allowed according to the new rules of the forums.
I have tried to answer as many questions about the new rules as I can since I did a lot of work into writing them and will be doing even more into enforcing them, however I will continue moderating posts that are not conductive to the discussion. Constructive discussion I will continue to try and answer to the best of my ability.
Koschej
Community Moderator
If you have a specific in game, account, tech or billing problem please contact our Customer Support team via The Knowledge Base "Ask A Question" page.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
First: Koschej, I've been trying to get anyone in a position of authority to just bluntly state that for awhile now. It's why I keep asking about policies and major respect for finally seeing someone just state it. I've always gotten prevarication and dodges instead every time before this that it came up. Since that's in a public post, can I quote it as my signature?
[/ QUOTE ]
This is actually stated by, I believe, rule 17 of the new rules. If you feel the need to quote it, I would request you quote that instead of what I have said in the discussion of it.
[ QUOTE ]
These forums are full of "grey areas", there can't be 100% consistency at all times - that's just not feasible or dare I say possible, to enforce the rules with 100% accuracy.
And as a few people have already pointed out, in their own ways...
If they actually did so it would undoubtedly feel more than a little Draconian, and the Forums would likely have a decidely "empty feel" to them.
So they do their Jobs, by exercising their own discretion on a case by case basis - according to the rules - to the extent possible.
The Forums are a huge field - with pitch black on one side, and pure white on the other - and a big fuzzy patch of grey all the way down the middle, where the Mods do their best to keep things civil, constructive, happy, etc.
That said if you're uncertain about what you can/can't or should/shouldn't say, use your own best discretion.
IMO, I believe the Mods can generally tell whether or not a poster either has, or is at least trying to - exercise some sort of discretion (and staying within the rules) when posting.
[/ QUOTE ]
Honestly, this is the best response I have seen to this and I can't think of a better way to state it.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Please use this thread to discuss the below announcement.
We have recently revised the Message Forum Rules and Guidelines that govern conduct on the Official City of Heroes Message Forums. We have worked to condense the rules to a more straightforward single list and to make them more straightforward and comprehensive. Everyone is encouraged to review them.
Click here to view the revised Message Forum Rules and Guidelines.
I want to publicly acknowledge Moderator Koschej for doing much of the work on our revised rules. Should anyone have questions or desire clarification about the rules, please post here or send a private message to any of the City of Heroes Community Team: <ul type="square">[*] Lighthouse: Community Manager[*] Ex Libris: Community Coordinator[*] Niviene: Community Moderator[*] Koschej: Community Moderator[/list]We're working hard to promote the City of Heroes Community and make the Official Message Forums a great place to visit!
[/ QUOTE ]
My only problem with the rules and how they are set up is that if I have a problem with the community manager, for example if Lighthouse were to behave inappropriately, I would have no one to take it up with as he is the Community Manager. In any other industry I would be able to complain to his boss, but in this situation I would be powerless. And that just doesn't seem right to me.
[/ QUOTE ]
There are four people on the community team as a check and balance. However if issues you have are unable to be reconciled, and you wish promote it past Lighthouse, you can go to http://support.plaync.com and submit your issue to us via the Ask a Question tab.
I would also remind everyone, that the nature of this thread is to answer your questions regarding the new rules, not to provide a place to attack moderation actions, discuss moderation that has been done, or engender non-constructive posting on this topic. Please refrain from these types of postings, as they are not allowed according to the new rules of the forums.
I have tried to answer as many questions about the new rules as I can since I did a lot of work into writing them and will be doing even more into enforcing them, however I will continue moderating posts that are not conductive to the discussion. Constructive discussion I will continue to try and answer to the best of my ability.
[/ QUOTE ]
I have been asking for clarification on how the enforcement of the rules will be any different now. Not attacking, and relevant.
I pointed out to another forum poster that asking or discussing certain things would get modded. Not attacking, and relevant.
You then did exactly that. To an answer, which has proven to be accurate, and not an attack on anyone.
None of this was an attack on anyone. It was a discussion of the rules and how they are enforced. Relevant.
It is just reinforcing some of the things that have been stated in this thread so far. <--Also relevant.
[ QUOTE ]
I would also remind everyone, that the nature of this thread is to answer your questions regarding the new rules, not to provide a place to attack moderation actions, discuss moderation that has been done, or engender non-constructive posting on this topic. Please refrain from these types of postings, as they are not allowed according to the new rules of the forums.
[/ QUOTE ]
Is discussing how these rules might possibly be applied allowed to be discussed according to the new guidelines?
[ QUOTE ]
I have tried to answer as many questions about the new rules as I can since I did a lot of work into writing them and will be doing even more into enforcing them, however I will continue moderating posts that are not conductive to the discussion. Constructive discussion I will continue to try and answer to the best of my ability.
[/ QUOTE ]
So posts about the rules and using past enforcement of said rules as examples is not allowed in an official thread that's supposed to be about the rules? Huh? I is confused now. Mayhaps you will be so kind as to explain the logic of that to me, cause I'm honestly not getting it.
[ QUOTE ]
Is discussing how these rules might possibly be applied allowed to be discussed according to the new guidelines?
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, as long as it is done constructively. Accusations and attacks against the moderation team will not be permitted however.
[ QUOTE ]
So posts about the rules and using past enforcement of said rules as examples is not allowed in an official thread that's supposed to be about the rules? Huh? I is confused now. Mayhaps you will be so kind as to explain the logic of that to me, cause I'm honestly not getting it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Again, as long as it is done in a constructive fashion it is fine, however the moment that attacks and insinuations begin to be made, they will be moderated out.
Koschej
Community Moderator
If you have a specific in game, account, tech or billing problem please contact our Customer Support team via The Knowledge Base "Ask A Question" page.
[ QUOTE ]
Again, as long as it is done in a constructive fashion it is fine, however the moment that attacks and insinuations begin to be made, they will be moderated out.
[/ QUOTE ]
But everything counts as insinuation or an attack if we even mention the community team.
So I ask you, please, tell us how we can actually discuss this stuff here without moderation.
Give an example if you have to, I am just not getting it.
[ QUOTE ]
I agree with Flea. I do think that the community should know why locks/bans/suspensions happened.
NcSoft doesn't need to tell us WHO they banned because that would have some legal issues. But if the community got, for example, a monthly newsletter that stated the number of bans and reasons why.
It would tell the community what is and what is not tolerated while keeping personal information confidential.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ummm, the rules themselves tell exactly what is and what is not tolerated. What it sounds like you're looking for is a public whipping square to satisfy a morbid desire for "revenge" or "closure". NCSoft is playing the bigger person by enforcing the rules but not publicly ridiculing the offenders like many individuals hunger for wrongly.
My impression is that the changes essentially are to limit the expressions of dissention and complaint of issues, attacks, or what have you. This is common on some forums but what does occur though is that you also gravitate towards a funneling of information that ammounts to affirmations of developers and community moderators and less of bringing real dialog and change when there are reasons of legitimacy there of.
There fore what is created is an effort to control and influence the information presented and discussed. Best intentions may or may not be the reasons for it but the end results almost invariably are always the same: disappointed on all sides.
-Storm Revenant-
Fires Within: Lvl 50 Fire/Kinetics Controller (Champion)
Steamed: Lvl 50 Thugs/Dark Miasma Mastermind (Freedom)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Again, as long as it is done in a constructive fashion it is fine, however the moment that attacks and insinuations begin to be made, they will be moderated out.
[/ QUOTE ]
But everything counts as insinuation or an attack if we even mention the community team.
So I ask you, please, tell us how we can actually discuss this stuff here without moderation.
Give an example if you have to, I am just not getting it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Pause, take a deep breath. You are over analyzing things.
Really the way to think about it is this. If you are hesitant to post it because you are afraid you might get mod smacked then you probably shouldn't be posting what ever you are about to post. Really it is as simple as that.
If the discussion is straight forward and you are not being hostile or defensive in your posting there should be nothing to worry about.
And last there is no simple example that can be posted because the situation changes literally from post to post depending on what is happening. thus my comment about if you are hesitant about posting it you probably shouldn't. I usually stop and review my posts for tone or content first before posting and in a number of cases I've then not posted it because I realized it wasn't helping the discussion.
But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
List of Invention Guides
[ QUOTE ]
Yes, as long as it is done constructively.
Again, as long as it is done in a constructive fashion it is fine, however the moment that attacks and insinuations begin to be made, they will be moderated out.
[/ QUOTE ]
But one issue is by what criteria and definition is such considered constructive. I question the legitimacy of this.
-Storm Revenant-
Fires Within: Lvl 50 Fire/Kinetics Controller (Champion)
Steamed: Lvl 50 Thugs/Dark Miasma Mastermind (Freedom)
While reading many of these replies I find myself somewhat flabbergasted by the negative response and the loopholing. For a long time, we did not have predominately-displayed rules. In fact, I often found myself asking others if they knew the rules. They did not.
From the rules I have read (and I have read them all), I find absolutely nothing that is unreasonable or unexpected. In fact, many of these rules are borderline routine for a message forum. When you run message boards, your entire point is to foster discussion. It is to allow discussion on a forum (gee, where have we seen this word?) in which all people can discuss openly. The only way this is remotely doable is through requests and demands of constructive discussion.
Some specific rules I think I want to reply to:
First off, /signed is not a valid reply. Arcanaville or anyone else can post the most succinct, amazing post about anything and everything. /signed is not a good reply. It does not improve discussion in any way. In fact, it doesn't even represent your opinion beyond "I agree"
I also do not believe anyone deserves explanation of action by a moderator. Is it a nice, fun courtesy? Absolutely. I would love to know why I've had my post changed by an unseen hand. That does not mean I have any right to it. If I broke a rule, I deserve the recourse. I deserve the edit, I deserve the deletion, and I deserve the ban. I agreed to that the second I signed on, posted on, and frequented these forums. I can easily deny these terms by signing out and never returning.
Forums such as these need these rules. I appreciate Koschej taking his time to actually do them. I wish they could be much more clear and explained, but many of these replies would find some loophole.
Thank you Koschej and the others that approved these rules. Here's to hoping they are followed and enforced with zealous awesomeness.
[ QUOTE ]
Very true.
Also re:bumping, we have been instructed in the past per a redname (think it was cuppa or cricket) that, prior to forum purges, we should indeed "bump" posts (such as the Mecha epic AT in S&I) that we don't want lost.
On another topic, how much will you be ramping up the mod staff? My concern on this can't be stated without breaking at least one, possibly two or three of the above forum rules. I can't actually expand that post to explain the question without running afoul of these.
And as for prior suggestions - well, wait, I can't actually discuss *that,* or discuss a way of helpign remedy that, without running into a few rules, as the suggestion has been suggested numerous times... frell.
No, I'm not being facetious (well, very.) Following these rules strictly, I can't voice the concerns the rules bring up. If I wanted to really feel technical, I'd say the discussion of the rules, despite being in a redname post, would themselves be a violation of the rules, as they're directly related to the guidelines for moderator action - and discussion of moderator actions (which not being spelled out would conceivably include future moderator actions) are against forum guidelines.
[/ QUOTE ]
I gotta say that reading through the fresh rules and this thread makes me feel as if I should seek legal representation before posting. I'm concerned that over-moderation, or at least the fear of over-moderation may do more to stifle the constructive and useful posts and responses on this board. I'm all for trolls being suspended (and maybe banned if they show to be habitual in nature), and spam being deleted. However some degree of trolling and spamming (especially something as innocent as "/signed"... dang, those signers are really malicious, aren't they... practically trying to crash the boards.) is to be expected in a place where people have the capability to express themselves in a manner consistent with their personality, especially considering that many people who dedicate as much of their lives to an MMORPG as some of us do (including myself, though I'm sure somebody will take offense to my statements... in this day and age, everything will offend somebody, and they'll take the opportunity to try and get "revenge" for their sensitivity), some folks just aren't going to have communication skills on par with professional public speakers... if they did, they'd probably be professional public speakers of some sort or another, leaving little time to obsess over a video game.
I can't help but wonder if anything that I post (including feedback regarding beta testing or game features, especially if it is negative) is actually valued by anyone sufficiently for me to risk my account access by posting anything with an opinion attached to it. Of course, without attaching an opinion, is there any point to making the post? Maybe it would be safer just to leave the forums alone and limit myself to interacting only with the game itself, and presume that all that can be found here is politically correct admiration for the moderation that nobody is allowed to talk about... except I can't go with that, because that might make this post mistaken for an "I'm Leaving" post...
[ QUOTE ]
[*]No necro-posting. Necro-posting is responding to an old discussion thread and is just a form of 'bumping.' One can bring up an old topic by starting a new thread and linking to the old discussion.
[/ QUOTE ]
Isn't that specifically against the rules though, since we're supposed to post in existing topics instead of making a new post?
Gotta say, some serious cleaning of the boards and maybe a new search function would help alot with this... The SEARCH function on these boards has almost never resulted in anything useful for me. I either find hundreds of posts that have absolutely nothing to do with the context I'm actually searching for, until I spend a couple hours sifting through them, refining the search, repeating, and eventually get "No Matching Results", and then make a new post, and quickly get jumped on for posting about something that a thousand other threads have been made about, and "Why didn't you use the search function, noob!"
Perhaps if moderators would make a habit of merging new threads into old threads about the same topic, it might help, though that may be more effort than anyone's willing to put forth. It would certainly prove more constructive than people ranting about how we should have used the almighty [yeah, right] search function.
[ QUOTE ]
16. Zero Tolerance Policy
Immediate suspension or bans from the forum can result from any of the following:
The posting of pornography; discriminatory remarks which are sexually explicit, harmful, threatening, abusive, defamatory, obscene, hateful, racially or ethnically offensive; excessive obscene or vulgar language; posts which discuss or illustrate illegal activity; providing links to sites that contain any of the aforementioned.
[/ QUOTE ]
Just curious if anyone else sees that discussing the robbing of a bank, or performance of vigilante activity can get you banned...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
We should just be grateful that Koschej doesn't spell it 'behaviour.'
[/ QUOTE ]
You guys are just lucky I didn't write the rules in Russian.
[/ QUOTE ]
"...but he was not loyal enough to the communist party to hold his breath until the capsule landed, and so he does not exist"
Players who are sufficiently loyal to NCSoft would already know Russian, as a contingency to this possibility...
[ QUOTE ]
8. Compare/Contrast and Off-topic threads.
Posts about other games or game companies, products or services not related to City of Heroes/Villains are not permitted in any of these forums. However, we do allow a wider variety of discussion topics in the Comic and Hero/Villain Culture forum and on the server forums. Non disruptive off topic discussion in those forums fits with the community of posters who frequent them. However discussion of competitive products/games (other MMO games), political, religious, or other volatile or disruptive topics will be removed.
[/ QUOTE ]
This one really irks me. When I see some feature in game X and want to offer the suggestion that it, or a variation of it, would work well in City of... I can get banned for it. Perhaps NCSoft would like to propagate the illusion that City of Heroes is the only game that any of us play, and that there are no viable ideas generated by any other company, but we all know that's just not true.
I agree that posting links to other games might qualify as advertising, and ranting about how "CoH sucks because Game X is better, blah, blah, blah" is certainly inappropriate, but I think that moderating someone for constructive comparisons and discussion that involves other games is going to do more harm than good.
[ QUOTE ]
As for exploit postings, if it is an actual exploit, come to the forums and message one of the Community team about it, and we will forward it on to the proper sources to get it taken care of. By placing it on the forums you put it in a place where people can see it, use it and possibly be caught using an exploit, etc. etc. before it gets fixed.
By letting us know however, you have a direct tap to get it taken care of.
[/ QUOTE ]
So are we ever going to get a list of specific criteria that helps us determine whether something is an exploit, a workaround, a simple bug, an unintended but tolerated feature, or an intended but undisclosed feature?
Sorry if my responses seem a bit varied, I'm catching up on this whole thread, before I go back to playing the game, which will probably keep me busy for awhile. I have keybind files that would leave Rube Goldberg slackjawed, and need to configure in some new ones to bring my new Dwarf Form into full functionality...
Dear NCsoft, if you go through with this shutdown you've guaranteed you'll not see another dime from me on any project you put out, ever.
http://xx-starhammer-xx.deviantart.com/
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I agree with Flea. I do think that the community should know why locks/bans/suspensions happened.
NcSoft doesn't need to tell us WHO they banned because that would have some legal issues. But if the community got, for example, a monthly newsletter that stated the number of bans and reasons why.
It would tell the community what is and what is not tolerated while keeping personal information confidential.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ummm, the rules themselves tell exactly what is and what is not tolerated. What it sounds like you're looking for is a public whipping square to satisfy a morbid desire for "revenge" or "closure". NCSoft is playing the bigger person by enforcing the rules but not publicly ridiculing the offenders like many individuals hunger for wrongly.
[/ QUOTE ]
They are basically asking for a report kinda like this on a regular schedule :
Four people temp banned for X, one permanent.
Six banned permanently for cyberstalking.
One banned for TPing people into those towers in the PvP zones so people couldn't play.
Etc.
Which, as you say, is unneeded. If something becomes a huge issue, they usually post a "Hey, this is wrong, you can be banned for it" message. Like with the PvP watch towers and teleporting people into them.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
[ QUOTE ]
I gotta say that reading through the fresh rules and this thread makes me feel as if I should seek legal representation before posting. I'm concerned that over-moderation, or at least the fear of over-moderation may do more to stifle the constructive and useful posts and responses on this board.
[/ QUOTE ]
Why?
These are pretty much standard rules for any message board. And they are the rules this board has been operated under for the last 4 years. All that has happened is that they where polished a bit and reposted so you would be reminded of them. Nothing has changed with the moderation so why would you suddenly be paranoid.
Oh and you did just violate the legal one. And that is a dumb claim to make anyway. Private message board their rules. Freedome of speech etc do not apply to private message boards.
But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
List of Invention Guides
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
First: Koschej, I've been trying to get anyone in a position of authority to just bluntly state that for awhile now. It's why I keep asking about policies and major respect for finally seeing someone just state it. I've always gotten prevarication and dodges instead every time before this that it came up. Since that's in a public post, can I quote it as my signature?
[/ QUOTE ]
This is actually stated by, I believe, rule 17 of the new rules. If you feel the need to quote it, I would request you quote that instead of what I have said in the discussion of it.
[/ QUOTE ]
[/ QUOTE ]
Placing it 17th on the list gives the false impression that the other rules are enforced impartially. Your statement had no such illusion. If that is the primary rule of the board then shouldn't it be first with a notation that this rule supersedes all other rules? That said, I'll just keep it for my own amusement instead of making it a signature since you responded so nicely. It still gives me more respect for you than most of the other responses I've seen (or had sidestepped) on the subject
[ QUOTE ]
As for consistency, I will remind you once again that these are proprietary forums and we can allow or disallow any posts on these forums at our discretion. The other rules are the guidelines to be followed, the proprietary rule is the overall rule there.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is exactly the reason things got into the state they are/were in. This is also the reason why nobody around here has a clue what is ok to post on any given day.
Make some rules, stick to them, change them if needed but this moderation on a whim hasn't been working very well for a while now.