Discussion: Forum Rules Revision
By
Absinth_Incubus,
Posted on: 2008-07-21 13:00 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
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As such, warnings and bans are not to be discussed on the forum. Such matters shall remain private between the NCsoft and the user. Questions or comments concerning warnings and bans will be conveyed through e-mail or private messaging. Likewise, discussions regarding moderator actions are not permitted on the forum. If you have questions regarding a post or thread that has been removed or subject to other moderation, feel free to contact a moderator to discuss it.
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I disagree with this policy, to a certain extent. While I understand that your company does not want to have a public debate regarding specific conduct that results in a disciplinary action, I believe that it would be helpful to me, and others in the community, to see exactly what discipline results from engaging in certain conduct.
For example, I have seen Lighthouse and Niviene lock certain threads with a brief statement of why. Those types of moderation help me understand how the forum rules are applied in a practical and real context.
But hey, it's still your playground and you get to make the rules. Nice job getting those polished up
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It's about keeping business and pleasure separate, Flea. We, as forum-goers, really don't need to know why various bits of disciplinary action take place, or whom they affect; if we follow the rules of the realm, we typically won't find ourselves in a position where we would need to. If threads are closed for reasons other than straightforward rules violations, the community reps often do post to tell us why, and that's a very courteous action on their part. But the back-end stuff like issuing warnings to people or banning them really isn't any of our concern.
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I agree that there is no need to know. But I believe it would be helpful to both the community and NCSoft.
The community could see how the rules are enforced. It also acts as a warning, sort of like having a police car on the highway. Most people slow down when they see a police car giving someone else a ticket. Some law enforcement agencies have taken to parking empty police cars on highways because it is so effective at reducing speeding.
50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
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You are not permitted to publicize any private correspondence (including petitions, email or PM correspondence, in game chat logs, etc.) received from any of the aforementioned without permission.
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I can see the why's of this for sure, but what about tech support? We don't need to see what tech support has been doing 99% of the time but we also have, oh, a couple thousand incidents on the tech forums so we do see these from time to time. I think the rule can still work, but please tell the tech support folks to give permission to ticket holders often and, preferably, before they even ask for permission.
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As a courtesy to others before beginning a new thread, please look to see if an active thread on that topic has already been established. If so, place your comments there instead.
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Again, the tech forums are a bit of an exception. A lot of people really don't understand significant differences and thing that a crash is a crash and must be caused by the same issue, even if one crash happens before the login screen appears and another crash only happens after hours of play. In fact, even if they DO know the significant differences, a set of symptoms can have multiple causes. We like to have folks who are having crashing or disconnect issues to make their own thread each time because, in all likelyhood, they are going to need personal attention.
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"NERF X!" threads are removed for much the same reason as "I'm leaving" threads. They can turn into threads with little or no constructive information.
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I don't like this rule at all. Some things ARE overpowered and need a few whacks from ye'olde nerf bat. How are we supposed to point those out? "All powers of players and NPCs need to be cranked up heavily in order to match the Shivan temp power - or do something I can't talk about that would be effectively the same but much more simple."
The fact that these kinds of posts CAN turn into nasty threads really just isn't fair. Can I not post suggestions unless I'm sure all the folks responding will be responsible??
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Using the forums or PMs for encouraging, promoting, endorsing, or inciting any kind of legal action against anyone is strictly prohibited. Such content will be removed, and the author's posting privileges may be permanently suspended as a result.
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Ouch. We'll have to watch our wording if AMD/nVidia's price fixing lawsuit goes against them. Please have mercy on us.
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Avatar icons are allowed as long as the images are below 20kb in size.
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That's going to be a LOT of animated GIF avatars! It will sure please the dial-up users, though. Some of those things are huge!
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>> something not there! <<
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No mention of the gag order on talking about the game's PIGG files! Is that just an oversite or can we finally talk about such things? Please please be the latter!
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I agree that there is no need to know. But I believe it would be helpful to both the community and NCSoft.
The community could see how the rules are enforced. It also acts as a warning, sort of like having a police car on the highway. Most people slow down when they see a police car giving someone else a ticket. Some law enforcement agencies have taken to parking empty police cars on highways because it is so effective at reducing speeding.
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If I may quote Lighthouse from a few posts up:
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We don't discuss disciplinary action because it is not constructive, fun or friendly discussion about the game. While there may be those who are interested in the inevitable drama surrounding such action, it's not something we want to play up or dwell on. Hence, we don't talk about it.
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There's not much else I can add to that -- the man is absolutely correct. I've got a ton of moderator and admin work under my belt, and in the long run, things like public banned lists (for example) only serve to polarize the userbase and are more trouble than they're worth.
Positron: "There are no bugs [in City of Heroes], just varying degrees of features."
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I don't like this rule at all. Some things ARE overpowered and need a few whacks from ye'olde nerf bat. How are we supposed to point those out? "All powers of players and NPCs need to be cranked up heavily in order to match the Shivan temp power - or do something I can't talk about that would be effectively the same but much more simple."
The fact that these kinds of posts CAN turn into nasty threads really just isn't fair. Can I not post suggestions unless I'm sure all the folks responding will be responsible??
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I'd vote send a PM. We really don't need the discussions and they do all become the exact same flameware between the "nerfherders" and "FOTM roller PLers."
EDIT and an aside:
I'm clearing out my ignore list. If the mods are truly serious about cleaning up this place, I'm all for helping out.
Be well, people of CoH.
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I don't like this rule at all. Some things ARE overpowered and need a few whacks from ye'olde nerf bat. How are we supposed to point those out? "All powers of players and NPCs need to be cranked up heavily in order to match the Shivan temp power - or do something I can't talk about that would be effectively the same but much more simple."
The fact that these kinds of posts CAN turn into nasty threads really just isn't fair. Can I not post suggestions unless I'm sure all the folks responding will be responsible??
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I'd vote send a PM. We really don't need the discussions and they do all become the exact same flameware between the "nerfherders" and "FOTM roller PLers."
[/ QUOTE ]QFT. Nerf X threads have lead to so much trouble on these forums. There are some players that just wont be satisfied till everyone is nerfed in some way. If that player just felt x powerset was overpowered then they can play without enhancements so it doesnt feel as overpowered, that is how I see it.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
Can I still "/em points and laughs" when BaB has pilot errors with the check-in system?
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QFT. Nerf X threads have lead to so much trouble on these forums. There are some players that just wont be satisfied till everyone is nerfed in some way. If that player just felt x powerset was overpowered then they can play without enhancements so it doesnt feel as overpowered, that is how I see it.
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Mods notified for breaking rule # 2. Abuse and disrespectful behavior is not tolerated.
Lumping all players on one side of a discussion as "wont be satisfied till everyone is nerfed in some way" is insulting and inaccurate. Not to mention disrespectful.
Be well, people of CoH.
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QFT. Nerf X threads have lead to so much trouble on these forums. There are some players that just wont be satisfied till everyone is nerfed in some way. If that player just felt x powerset was overpowered then they can play without enhancements so it doesnt feel as overpowered, that is how I see it.
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Mods notified for breaking rule # 2. Abuse and disrespectful behavior is not tolerated.
Lumping all players on one side of a discussion as "wont be satisfied till everyone is nerfed in some way" is insulting and inaccurate. Not to mention disrespectful.
[/ QUOTE ]Just wait a minute, I said some, no where in my post did I say all players.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
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As such, warnings and bans are not to be discussed on the forum. Such matters shall remain private between the NCsoft and the user. Questions or comments concerning warnings and bans will be conveyed through e-mail or private messaging. Likewise, discussions regarding moderator actions are not permitted on the forum. If you have questions regarding a post or thread that has been removed or subject to other moderation, feel free to contact a moderator to discuss it.
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I disagree with this policy, to a certain extent. While I understand that your company does not want to have a public debate regarding specific conduct that results in a disciplinary action, I believe that it would be helpful to me, and others in the community, to see exactly what discipline results from engaging in certain conduct.
For example, I have seen Lighthouse and Niviene lock certain threads with a brief statement of why. Those types of moderation help me understand how the forum rules are applied in a practical and real context.
But hey, it's still your playground and you get to make the rules. Nice job getting those polished up
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Sometimes I've needed to vent. That's usually the exception rather than the rule. So I've complained about these forums' moderation before... just not here on these forums. I would use another forum, such as an SG forum, comic forum, game website forum, etc. if you need to vent.
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QFT. Nerf X threads have lead to so much trouble on these forums. There are some players that just wont be satisfied till everyone is nerfed in some way. If that player just felt x powerset was overpowered then they can play without enhancements so it doesnt feel as overpowered, that is how I see it.
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Mods notified for breaking rule # 2. Abuse and disrespectful behavior is not tolerated.
Lumping all players on one side of a discussion as "wont be satisfied till everyone is nerfed in some way" is insulting and inaccurate. Not to mention disrespectful.
[/ QUOTE ]Just wait a minute, I said some, no where in my post did I say all players.
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Stating an opinion on a rule was the context for this post, lets try to keep the discussion on topic.
Thanks.
Koschej
Community Moderator
If you have a specific in game, account, tech or billing problem please contact our Customer Support team via The Knowledge Base "Ask A Question" page.
LH, something should be mentioned in the new forum guidelines that losing forum privileges may also exclude a player from closed beta participation, just for sake of clarity.
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As such, warnings and bans are not to be discussed on the forum. Such matters shall remain private between the NCsoft and the user. Questions or comments concerning warnings and bans will be conveyed through e-mail or private messaging. Likewise, discussions regarding moderator actions are not permitted on the forum. If you have questions regarding a post or thread that has been removed or subject to other moderation, feel free to contact a moderator to discuss it.
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I disagree with this policy, to a certain extent. While I understand that your company does not want to have a public debate regarding specific conduct that results in a disciplinary action, I believe that it would be helpful to me, and others in the community, to see exactly what discipline results from engaging in certain conduct.
For example, I have seen Lighthouse and Niviene lock certain threads with a brief statement of why. Those types of moderation help me understand how the forum rules are applied in a practical and real context.
But hey, it's still your playground and you get to make the rules. Nice job getting those polished up
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I've complained about these forums' moderation before... just not here on these forums. I would use another forum, such as an SG forum, comic forum, game website forum, etc. if you need to vent.
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And we thank you for that.
However I would also say that we try to be very approachable. While we cannot discuss moderation of other people, if you feel something or you, yourself, got moderated unfairly, or things are uneven, you can message one of us to discuss it. Keep in mind that certain actions we may not be able to talk about, but if you do have concerns, we are open to talk about them.
Koschej
Community Moderator
If you have a specific in game, account, tech or billing problem please contact our Customer Support team via The Knowledge Base "Ask A Question" page.
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LH, something should be mentioned in the new forum guidelines that losing forum privileges may also exclude a player from closed beta participation, just for sake of clarity.
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This would be considered a penalty and not a rule.
As with all things, while the rules are strict and solid, the document itself is fluid, we will take a look at how things go and possibly make revisions as they are needed.
Koschej
Community Moderator
If you have a specific in game, account, tech or billing problem please contact our Customer Support team via The Knowledge Base "Ask A Question" page.
I'm just glad there's no more 1 meg+ avatars allowed.
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"NERF X!" threads are removed for much the same reason as "I'm leaving" threads. They can turn into threads with little or no constructive information.
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I don't like this rule at all. Some things ARE overpowered and need a few whacks from ye'olde nerf bat. How are we supposed to point those out? "All powers of players and NPCs need to be cranked up heavily in order to match the Shivan temp power - or do something I can't talk about that would be effectively the same but much more simple."
The fact that these kinds of posts CAN turn into nasty threads really just isn't fair. Can I not post suggestions unless I'm sure all the folks responding will be responsible??
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I believe its not unreasonable to suggest that since calls for nerfs are much more likely to spark unproductive controversy on the forums, calls for power reductions should be held to a higher standard than calls for buffs. If you want to say "Buff Barrage" you're unlikely to cause a major forum war. "Nerf Air Superiority" will, which means if you think Air Superiority is overpowered, its your responsibility to make an extremely strong and well-supported argument for that.
I don't think you'll be held responsible for how other people reply to your post, although if the thread goes nowhere the thread itself will probably get whacked.
And by the way, I would only consider a temp power like the Shivan temp power to be "overpowered" if it satisfied at least one of the following:
1. It allows a player to level significantly faster than average.
2. Its benefit is significantly out of line with the time and energy it takes to gain it.
3. Its presence trivializes end-game content to a higher degree than the highest capabilities of the strongest possible teams without it.
4. It confered an overwhelming advantage in PvP
5. Its capabilities can be exploited to be much higher than originally designed.
I don't think I can make an unambiguous case for any of those to be true.
Its not important if you agree with those criteria: what's important is that most people don't even state their criteria. I think the *biggest* problem with discussions about "overpowered" features of the game and "balance" in general is that most people treat both terms' definitions as self-evident, and don't bother to define them directly. As a result, arguments are easy to form when everyone is using completely different definitions of what those terms mean.
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Hi GraeKnight,
You may be aware that the above rules you quoted have always been in effect on these message forums. The revised rules pull from the original rules and nothing has changed in that respect.
If you see posts that are in violation of the rules, you can help us to address them by clicking the "Notify Moderator" button that is found in the lower left of any post.
Thanks!
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Use at your own risk.
Yes the rules have always been in place. Does this mean you guys are actually going to start enforcing them?
Well, I repsect your need to maintain order in the whirling chaos that might engulf us otherwise, I respectfully (and vehemently) disagree with the following:
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..."/signed" posts are a version of bumping and likewise are not permitted.
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When the OP has made a clear, logical coherent statement of "whatever" /signed is not a bump, it is a means of demonstrating community support without wasting everyone's time by restating.
These forums *are* supposed to be a place to express our agreement/disagreement/wishes to the rest of the community and the development team. Brevity isn't bad.
Or said another way,
Where would we be if Marvel suppressed Stan Lee?
'nuff said....
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I've complained about these forums' moderation before... just not here on these forums. I would use another forum, such as an SG forum, comic forum, game website forum, etc. if you need to vent.
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And we thank you for that.
However I would also say that we try to be very approachable. While we cannot discuss moderation of other people, if you feel something or you, yourself, got moderated unfairly, or things are uneven, you can message one of us to discuss it. Keep in mind that certain actions we may not be able to talk about, but if you do have concerns, we are open to talk about them.
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Absolutely. Like I made mention of in my edit, it's the exception rather than the rule 
Also:
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# Negative feedback can be very useful, provided that it is presented in a civil, factual manner. Tell us what you don't like and why and how you feel it could be improved. Posts that are insulting and rude may be deleted, no matter how valid the ideas behind them may be.
# A rant is a post which is long-winded, redundant and filled with angry, non-constructive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and helpful in the development of the game, but rants are disruptive and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise, clear manner and avoid going off on rambling tangents.
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Thanks for making these rule exceedingly clear. Destructive criticism usually serves little purpose.
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but for us to be as consistent as possible in our moderation
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I lold.
Does this mean you guys will get rid of the sections that encourage this type of behavior?
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Well, I repsect your need to maintain order in the whirling chaos that might engulf us otherwise, I respectfully (and vehemently) disagree with the following:
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..."/signed" posts are a version of bumping and likewise are not permitted.
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When the OP has made a clear, logical coherent statement of "whatever" /signed is not a bump, it is a means of demonstrating community support without wasting everyone's time by restating.
These forums *are* supposed to be a place to express our agreement/disagreement/wishes to the rest of the community and the development team. Brevity isn't bad.
Or said another way,
Where would we be if Marvel suppressed Stan Lee?
'nuff said....
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Very true.
Also re:bumping, we have been instructed in the past per a redname (think it was cuppa or cricket) that, prior to forum purges, we should indeed "bump" posts (such as the Mecha epic AT in S&I) that we don't want lost.
On another topic, how much will you be ramping up the mod staff? My concern on this can't be stated without breaking at least one, possibly two or three of the above forum rules. I can't actually expand that post to explain the question without running afoul of these.
And as for prior suggestions - well, wait, I can't actually discuss *that,* or discuss a way of helpign remedy that, without running into a few rules, as the suggestion has been suggested numerous times... frell.
No, I'm not being facetious (well, very.) Following these rules strictly, I can't voice the concerns the rules bring up. If I wanted to really feel technical, I'd say the discussion of the rules, despite being in a redname post, would themselves be a violation of the rules, as they're directly related to the guidelines for moderator action - and discussion of moderator actions (which not being spelled out would conceivably include future moderator actions) are against forum guidelines.
Post deleted by Kobolt_Thunder
It is better to ask forgiveness than permission.
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As such, warnings and bans are not to be discussed on the forum. Such matters shall remain private between the NCsoft and the user. Questions or comments concerning warnings and bans will be conveyed through e-mail or private messaging. Likewise, discussions regarding moderator actions are not permitted on the forum. If you have questions regarding a post or thread that has been removed or subject to other moderation, feel free to contact a moderator to discuss it.
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I disagree with this policy, to a certain extent. While I understand that your company does not want to have a public debate regarding specific conduct that results in a disciplinary action, I believe that it would be helpful to me, and others in the community, to see exactly what discipline results from engaging in certain conduct.
For example, I have seen Lighthouse and Niviene lock certain threads with a brief statement of why. Those types of moderation help me understand how the forum rules are applied in a practical and real context.
But hey, it's still your playground and you get to make the rules. Nice job getting those polished up
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I've complained about these forums' moderation before... just not here on these forums. I would use another forum, such as an SG forum, comic forum, game website forum, etc. if you need to vent.
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And we thank you for that.
However I would also say that we try to be very approachable. While we cannot discuss moderation of other people, if you feel something or you, yourself, got moderated unfairly, or things are uneven, you can message one of us to discuss it. Keep in mind that certain actions we may not be able to talk about, but if you do have concerns, we are open to talk about them.
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Seems like you would rather have the discussion here instead of out on the net where potential customers can get turned off by the actions of the employees.
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Does this mean you guys will get rid of the sections that encourage this type of behavior?
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This is actually a very good question. Will PWNZ and Forum Games be purged? Will threads posting off to NSFW content in the art forum be nuked?
Or will it be a case of "Continue as you were, but be more careful?"
Be well, people of CoH.
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Does this mean you guys will get rid of the sections that encourage this type of behavior?
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This is actually a very good question. Will PWNZ and Forum Games be purged? Will threads posting off to NSFW content in the art forum be nuked?
Or will it be a case of "Continue as you were, but be more careful?"
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And is S&I on that list? (See also "Nerf X," "bumping," "prior ideas" and more.)
Also, is the "If it's below the 'For Fun' header, we don't moderate anywhere near as much" no longer true? Since it seems to be going that way.
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Cool. And if I see that the rules are actually being enforced, very cool.
If you would like an example of where the rules are being completely ignored, please see the "Now Testing in the Training Room - July 15, 2008" thread.
I hope the ban stick is used often and without remorse. Even if, and especially if, I'm the one being beaten with it.
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We do try to enforce the rules whenever we see them being violated, and the community is incredibly helpful in this. If you run into a rule violation, which the new rules should help clarify what is and is not a violation. Hit the notify moderator button. And if you want to take it a step further, PM Niviene or myself or both and let us know WHY you think it's in violation of which rule and we will look into it.
Koschej
Community Moderator
If you have a specific in game, account, tech or billing problem please contact our Customer Support team via The Knowledge Base "Ask A Question" page.