final fantasy XI is still around and maintains a large population, if i recall correctly, care to be deleveled, thus having all your armor and weapons suddenly unuseable?
wow also has degradation of equipment, which can be fairly expensive, or time consuming corpse runs that are vulnerable on pvp shards to corpse camping.
also from what i understand death in eve online can be significantly punishing.
eq2 had pretty wimpy debt penalties, though when i played they did have the some what annoying aspect that you could get debt from a teammate dying.
id say coh's exp debt is fairly mild by comparison, particularly since it has been reduced at least twice.
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Even the new forum Moderators (a position that tends to be hated everywhere) have a name and can poke fun with us! Hard to hate the guy who locks your thread when he says, "it was the history eraser button, I couldn't resist".
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Even the numbered mods we noticed before the two named ones came forward (Yes, I know 11 & 419 are the two named mods now) had something of a personality.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
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So yeah, it's great that a handful of people think that CoH is the "bestest, most goodest, uber-perfect game in creation", but at the end of the day, you're hurting the game. You're hurting it the same way the Star Wars fanboys hurt the three Prequels: by convincing the people in charge that the majority of the fanbase are "wrong", and that everything is completely peachy-keen.
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And there we go again, talking about this mythical creature, the "fanboy." In all my travels through the Internet, never once have I seen concrete, solid evidence of this animal. Oh, I've seen tall tales, speaking of how fearsome the fanboy was, how it gobbled 15 rational, reasonable people in a single bite. I've seen the witness reports, describing the hideous beast which was there, but was thankfully banned so long ago that no-one even remembers a straight line of text it posted. I've even seen the many witch hunts where innocent creatures were chased through the forums by a mob sporting torches and pitchforks, and eventually cornered and dunked until it confessed it was a fanboy, but by that point it was so beaten and bruised you couldn't tell what it was anymore.
What I have NOT seen, however, is a real live fanboy. I'd like to see one, one of these days, to look into its eye and to understand why it sparks such fascination. But all I have is tall tales and exaggerated reports, substantiated with anecdotal evidence and heavy use of clever rethoric. If these animals are so rampant that they are practically overrunning every franchise ever made, then why have I never seen one?
Frankly, the only thing I've seen is fairly innocent animals branded the words "fanboy" in hot, smouldering iron to their backsides for having the audacity to speak actually like a product, rather than supporting the heedless barbarians who seek to destroy all created things. Such barbarians themselves are decidedly rare, but every time they so much as make a step into this world of free men, they always make sure to throw the blame for their misdeeds at these mythical fanboys, for surely one has to be a mythical beast indeed to dare liking a product. "The fanboys will flame me" as their battle cry, they charge at a product, perform their pillaging raids, then retreat back into the shadows to await another opportunity.
Frankly, I'd have expected this country of CoH Forums to have grown past such old wives tales as trolls and fanboys and suchforth. I would have thought that arguments could be examined for their merit, rather than the members of the discussion who made them discredited by wide, sweeping accusations. That if people happen to like something, then perhaps they actually like it because they like it, rather than because they feel compelled to, and that if people dislike something, then perhaps they dislike it because they dislike it, rather than because the devil himself rose up to manifest the object of their dislike.
Can we please drop the fanboys thing? It's getting really old now.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Samuel waxes a mite verbose, methinks. 
I do think the "fanboi/carebear" label gets overused... a whole lot. But I do think that it applies in some cases (though in truth I've seen it more outside of this game than in... see movies, comics etc).
I know not of fanboys. But there certainly are "defenders of the faith" as you have taught me well Hallowed... Not that that is a bad thing.
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom (or freem?) fighter; just as one man's exploit is another man's feature.
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I know not of fanboys. But there certainly are "defenders of the faith" as you have taught me well Hallowed... Not that that is a bad thing.
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Heh, "Defender of the Faith"... seems to fit well with my name, no? 
I criticize when I see the need, but I try to keep things in context. For example, I was distinctly getting the feeling/suspicion months ago that this dev team was gutted and understaffed, so I took that into consideration when evaluating things they did. I like to recognize things well done, or when a particular dev seems to go the extra mile. I will freely admit that many of my posts are dev-friendly, especially in the last year or so.
This has not always been the case though. I was highly critical of many of the decisions made under the "old regime". However, I usually restricted those thoughts to my SG boards or in-game conversations, where people knew me and understood where I was coming from. Mostly I didn't post here early on, b/c I wasn't sure my posts would be phrased in a manner that they'd be in any way, form or function constructive. There was a good chance they'd just be rants contributing to, or starting, flame-wars. Since there are always plenty of those posts around, I didn't feel the need to join the unwashed masses.
Heck, Julie the Cruise Director (LH 
) has raised my ire on several occasions, even within the last year, and I know I probably tip-toed that decency/anger/outrage/frustration line...
Honestly, I get more p/o'ed at some of the total lack of decency and respect shown on these forums. Most of the time, I ignore it, but repeated ignorant/nasty postings from the same individual(s) will eventually get to me and may prompt a response. I have understanding for people occasionally stepping over the line, especially about something that effects them "directly" and they are passionate about. But, there should be limits.
Eventually I feel compelled to defend those being (in my opinion) unjustly attacked. I've done it for devs and forumites alike. It's a character-flaw perhaps... a bit of a white knight complex...
And then, occasionally, there are the my stupid attempts at humor... no comments from the peanut gallery please! Critics be damned.
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During the first month or so after Release, I sent an eMail to Statesman, and outlined everything that I saw as a potential problems with the game. He graciously and politely wrote back to me. He seemed to understand what I was saying and encouraged me to hang in there until they got all the kinks worked out. A lot of the problems I noticed have been addressed: The insane leveling curve, the overly-zealous Debt mechanics, the lack Enhancements that don't decay with levels, the complete uselessness of Scrappers, and so forth. However, there are still big, huge problems that are keeping the average gamer away- the biggest being the entire Bridging/Doorsitting/PLing nonsense. Normal gamers won't play a game with those issues. But instead of fixing it, as it should have been fixed on Day One, the Devs ignore it.
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You made a couple of good points in this post, but I have to take issue with two things in this paragraph, which Ive outlined above.
For the first, I have to wonder what youre smoking. Scrappers have, historically, been gods in this game. They had the living hell nerfed out of them, in fact (although theyre still just about the most powerful ATs in the game). No game nerfs useless things.
As for the second, there have been numerous game changes to address PLing. Several missions had timers added to prevent farming it over and over and over and over forever. There was the nerf to burn, and the nerf to nova, and the nerf to taunt, and the nerf to herding, and changes to how XP is awarded in teams. This is nothing at all like "ignoring." Also, Id have to say that PLing is very, very typical in MMOs, and therefore normal gamers will indeed play a game with this in it (since typical = normal).
"OK, first of all... Shut Up." - My 13-Year-Old Daughter
29973 "The Running of the Bulls" [SFMA] - WINNER of the Mighty Big Story Arc Contest !
- The Stellar Wind Orbital Space Platform
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For the first, I have to wonder what youre smoking. Scrappers have, historically, been gods in this game. They had the living hell nerfed out of them, in fact (although theyre still just about the most powerful ATs in the game). No game nerfs useless things.
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You mean that AT that doesn't do half the damage of a Blaster, has heavily resisted damage types, has been nerfed well past the level of usefulness in team situations (Seriously, my Blaster scraps better than my Scrappers and has the best damage mitigation in killing the enemies before they kill me) where everyone will do what you do, except, y'know, better.
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For the first, I have to wonder what youre smoking. Scrappers have, historically, been gods in this game. They had the living hell nerfed out of them, in fact (although theyre still just about the most powerful ATs in the game). No game nerfs useless things.
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You mean that AT that doesn't do half the damage of a Blaster, has heavily resisted damage types, has been nerfed well past the level of usefulness in team situations (Seriously, my Blaster scraps better than my Scrappers and has the best damage mitigation in killing the enemies before they kill me) where everyone will do what you do, except, y'know, better.
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The AT you describe would, indeed, be pretty useless. But I was talking about scrappers.
"OK, first of all... Shut Up." - My 13-Year-Old Daughter
29973 "The Running of the Bulls" [SFMA] - WINNER of the Mighty Big Story Arc Contest !
- The Stellar Wind Orbital Space Platform
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For the first, I have to wonder what youre smoking. Scrappers have, historically, been gods in this game. They had the living hell nerfed out of them, in fact (although theyre still just about the most powerful ATs in the game). No game nerfs useless things.
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You mean that AT that doesn't do half the damage of a Blaster, has heavily resisted damage types, has been nerfed well past the level of usefulness in team situations (Seriously, my Blaster scraps better than my Scrappers and has the best damage mitigation in killing the enemies before they kill me) where everyone will do what you do, except, y'know, better.
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"Doesn't do half the damage of a Blaster?" Scappers have the single highest damage modifier in this game, short of Nova form Kheldians, and the second best form of personal protection available to any hero AT. I'm confused and bewildered as to how exactly they've "nerfed past the level of uslessness," to say the least. And I own both Scrappers and Blaster, so you'd think I could compare.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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For the first, I have to wonder what youre smoking. Scrappers have, historically, been gods in this game. They had the living hell nerfed out of them, in fact (although theyre still just about the most powerful ATs in the game). No game nerfs useless things.
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You mean that AT that doesn't do half the damage of a Blaster, has heavily resisted damage types, has been nerfed well past the level of usefulness in team situations (Seriously, my Blaster scraps better than my Scrappers and has the best damage mitigation in killing the enemies before they kill me) where everyone will do what you do, except, y'know, better.
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?!?
I'm glad I'm not playing whatever scrapper it is you're trying to play.
Scrappers: Not the best at any one thing, but very good at everything (well... other than range, lol). One of, if not the best soloers in the game.
In the formative days of the game scrappers kinda stunk and nobody wanted them for teams.
Kids today, think ya know everything. =P
Anyone who says they stink now is smoking the good stuff, but back in the day they did indeed underperform & were kinda sucky.
This is back when you could do more DPS using pool power attacks than using the MA primary, and when hurdle was faster than fly.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
yeah ma scrappers were bad around issue 1, i stuck it out on pure stubbornness.
Would you, per chance, be referring to "City of Blasters?" Yeah, I remember that time I somehow never got made fun of for playing a Scrapper back then, but there was never a shortage of people telling me I was stupid for picking Super Reflexes and those letting me know that Katana was just an inferior version of Broadsword.
Last time I checked, though, Blasters were at the rock bottom of performance, which is why they needed the Defiance changes. What happened to make them kings of the world that I missed? Surely it cannot have been the Defiance changes just by themselves. They weren't making my Blasters any more survivable than my Scrappers last time I checked.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I dunno about rock bottom. Blasters are apparently the order of the day in PvP in any case.
You just gotta be canny when soloing. On a team, you're an incredibly boon. Defiance did help a lot solo though.
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Last time I checked, though, Blasters were at the rock bottom of performance, which is why they needed the Defiance changes. What happened to make them kings of the world that I missed? Surely it cannot have been the Defiance changes just by themselves. They weren't making my Blasters any more survivable than my Scrappers last time I checked.
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Survivability is in the eye of the beholder anyway. My Blaster survived VERY well without Defiance 2.0. I remember the Stalkers' defense being quite right in "Blasters need to learn to play." 'cause it applied to me.
My scrappers barely do any damage when compared to blasters, we're talking like... with the same buffs and everything, a good 200 damage less on an attack chain. Factor in that I rolled EM, so I have access to two excellent melee attacks in Bonesmasher and Total Focus...
Excuse for "damage is less" is that they can't be mezzed as easily. Which is true. It's still pretty sad to find out that, the undisputed "king" of melee damage Hero-side gets outdamaged by Blasters who pick EM.
Kinda understand why I feel gimped whenever I play my Scrappers now, and probably why I've pretty much given up on bothering to IO out my MA. Especially since I primarily play in teams, where a Tanker would take damage better than I would, and a Blaster outdamages me like hell.
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In the formative days of the game scrappers kinda stunk and nobody wanted them for teams.
Kids today, think ya know everything. =P
Anyone who says they stink now is smoking the good stuff, but back in the day they did indeed underperform & were kinda sucky.
This is back when you could do more DPS using pool power attacks than using the MA primary, and when hurdle was faster than fly.
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Heh. Been here since day 2 (damn pre-order snafu) granpa. Played both blasters and scrappers quite a bit early on. I remember being told that DM/Regen scrappers sucked... until we started soloing AVs.
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"Doesn't do half the damage of a Blaster?" Scappers have the single highest damage modifier in this game, short of Nova form Kheldians, and the second best form of personal protection available to any hero AT. I'm confused and bewildered as to how exactly they've "nerfed past the level of uslessness," to say the least. And I own both Scrappers and Blaster, so you'd think I could compare.
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Yeah, you'd THINK so. But I'm kinda gettin' the vibe that if this were WoW, you'd be telling us how you beat up Warlocks with your Mage.
But all joking aside...
In the early days of the game, (which you apparently weren't around for), Scrappers couldn't even level as fast as Blasters, because they had no way to stop Runners. Blasters would be standing half a block away, getting kills without moving, and Scrappers would be scrambling around like roaches on a hotplate trying desperately to get in a Killing Blow on a mob that was sprinting across Galaxy City at right around Mach Ten.
Scrappers may be better now. I wouldn't know, as the early days left me so angry over the whole thing that I now play exclusively Blasters/Tankers. Yeah, I hope they fixed them, but it doesn't alter the fact that Scrappers got the short end of the stick for a LONG time in this game.
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Yeah, I hope they fixed them, but it doesn't alter the fact that Scrappers got the short end of the stick for a LONG time in this game.
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... I started off in the last days of i2. Far as I remember, the Six-Second Rule was still extant back in those heady days, and it wasn't uncommon to see Scrappers discussing how to solo various (pre-EB patch) AVs.
So... 'long' time being, what, a couple of issues, at most?
"A soft answer turneth away wrath. Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head." Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates
MA Arcs: #12285, "Small Fears", #106553, "Trollbane", #12669, "How to Survive a Robot Uprising"
I *love* my Spines/Regen Scrapper. ED, which I hated, forced me to rethink his secondary effect of poison/slow. So, I slotted for that and man, it has made a difference. I am not the greatest player, but my scrapper is 47 now and soloed most of the Preatorians (could have soloed all of them, but was teaming), as EB's of course.
While I still hate ED, something good did come out of it. I think the devs have done a very good job trying to balance all the AT's so that they work. Yes, some do under perform, but if it's fun to play, I'll still play it.
You don't hit smiling monsters - Sister Flame
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Last time I checked, though, Blasters were at the rock bottom of performance, which is why they needed the Defiance changes. What happened to make them kings of the world that I missed? Surely it cannot have been the Defiance changes just by themselves. They weren't making my Blasters any more survivable than my Scrappers last time I checked.
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Survivability is in the eye of the beholder anyway. My Blaster survived VERY well without Defiance 2.0. I remember the Stalkers' defense being quite right in "Blasters need to learn to play." 'cause it applied to me.
My scrappers barely do any damage when compared to blasters, we're talking like... with the same buffs and everything, a good 200 damage less on an attack chain. Factor in that I rolled EM, so I have access to two excellent melee attacks in Bonesmasher and Total Focus...
Excuse for "damage is less" is that they can't be mezzed as easily. Which is true. It's still pretty sad to find out that, the undisputed "king" of melee damage Hero-side gets outdamaged by Blasters who pick EM.
Kinda understand why I feel gimped whenever I play my Scrappers now, and probably why I've pretty much given up on bothering to IO out my MA. Especially since I primarily play in teams, where a Tanker would take damage better than I would, and a Blaster outdamages me like hell.
[/ QUOTE ]well, the response is that your blaster ties up the buffer more to keep him/her unmezzed particularl in the end game witha lot of aoe mezzes, and your tank, unless its a very specific build, is not going to do anywhere close to the damage of a scrapper. the deal is that the scrapper will solo better than both of them, but individually they will contribute more to a team, and thats really how it shoudl be. a tnakers job is survivability and aggro management, and a blasters job is pure damage, a scrapper is mostly a solo specialist but has both survivability and damage. and yes hatman, em is a broken powerset, its broken on blasters, broken on stalkers, broken on brutes, it offers way too much single target with too good of a secondary effect with too little sacrifice, comparing anythign to em is going to hurt becaue its a stupidly overpowered power. bottom line is your blaster may be outdamaging scrappers in melee, but once a few rikti mentalists pop out, or carnie master illusionists you either have a tray of breakfrees, or you are down to only 3 useable powers for the majority of the fight. whereas the scrapper is almost totally unaffected and still fighting.
Getting back on topic, I want to ask (in the nicest way I can) if it's not unreasonable to believe the following:
I love to play Cox. It's the best MMO on the market.
I believe everything in CoX should work as advertised. But it's not a perfect world so when it doesn't NCSoft should fix it in a timely manner. I believe the "known issues" list should be complete and up to date.
I should not have to be "buddies" with the devs to get what's broke fixed or have my point of view heard.
I do not care if NCSoft has 15, 150, or 1500 dev employees. But I do expect a level of service for my subscription fee.
I do not care who does what function at NCSoft. Tell me how my complaints are heard and act on them (even if it means telling me "no") and I will be happy.
I understand that when it comes to "new stuff" or changes in CoX my opinion on what should occur may not happen.
I know that chances are whatever I say in the forums (no matter how well I say it) I will be probably slammed for my opinion. So please Fire Away.
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom (or freem?) fighter; just as one man's exploit is another man's feature.
Not firing away per say, but... I think maybe you've never worked in a high-demand job. Say, fast food - have you ever run the counter, done fries, cleaned tables, AND counted cash at the end of the night - mostly positions filled by different people during the course of a day?
15 people cannot miraculously whip up all the changes you want. 30 people CAN. They can get on top of it, back track in here and see "hey there really is a lot of complaints about x maybe I'll look into that now that we're done with Y".
Patience. The team hasn't gotten back up to full steam just yet. Your subscription dollars give you the right to open an account and access the game, nothing more. Their salaries give them the right to create the game, but their salaries have been limited, as well as their time and ways to get things done.
Now that they've got a little more of everything, give them that time to work on those little fixes. Plus: just because you believe something is a bug, does not mean it's worth their time to work on at all, but they may still look into things.
Create a full bug list (i'm pretty sure someone has, was it you recently?) and send it in a PM to Positron. Top dog, will know what to do with it.
Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
Repurposed
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Getting back on topic, I want to ask (in the nicest way I can) if it's not unreasonable to believe the following:
I love to play Cox. It's the best MMO on the market.
I believe everything in CoX should work as advertised. But it's not a perfect world so when it doesn't NCSoft should fix it in a timely manner. I believe the "known issues" list should be complete and up to date.
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Agreed on the known issues list. 100%
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I should not have to be "buddies" with the devs to get what's broke fixed or have my point of view heard.
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You don't have to be. But the better informed and phrased your requests/issues are, the more likely they will be looked at.
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I do not care if NCSoft has 15, 150, or 1500 devs employees. But I do expect a level of service for my subscription fee.
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First part of this is unreasonable. You simply can't expect a 15 person team to deliver what a 150 or 1500 person team can. And you do get a level of service. It's up to you to decide if it's a level of service that you deem acceptable vs the cost. If it's not, you need to decide if it's worth your continued financial support (note this is not a "LEAVE so I can haz your stuff").
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I do not care who does what function at NCSoft. Tell me how my complaints are heard and act on them (even if it means telling me "no") and I will be happy.
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Again, unreasonable. If you take your issues to the wrong person, how do you expect them to be properly addressed? If you make a deposit with the janitor at the bank, don't be surprised if your account doesn't reflect it. 
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I understand that when it comes to "new stuff" or changes in CoX my opinion on what should occur may not happen.
I know that chances are whatever I say in the forums (no matter how well I say it) I will be probably slammed for my opinion. So please Fire Away.
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The better you state it, and more rational you are, the less likely you are to get slammed. Unfortunately, this is by no means a guarantee... 
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A lot of the problems I noticed have been addressed: The insane leveling curve, the overly-zealous Debt mechanics, the lack Enhancements that don't decay with levels, the complete uselessness of Scrappers, and so forth. However, there are still big, huge problems that are keeping the average gamer away- the biggest being the entire Bridging/Doorsitting/PLing nonsense. Normal gamers won't play a game with those issues. But instead of fixing it, as it should have been fixed on Day One, the Devs ignore it.
[/ QUOTE ]Uh, have you played any other MMO, ever? Our "insane leveling curve" and "overly-zealous Debt mechanics" are a drop in the bucket compared to the grind and death penalty in most games, not to mention the fact that PLing and farming (or something with similar effect) will always happen, in any and every game, no matter what the developers do to try and prevent it.
Games are a time sink, MMOs doubly so.
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Which games are you referring to? The ones I consider direct competition to CoH/V are no worse and in some cases better than CoH/V in terms of "grind" or death penalty. CoH/V was a clear break from the "hardcore" style of the original EQ back in 2004 but really, I can't think of any big MMO that follows that old model now. Certainly every game I've tried has had a gentle leveling curve and minimal death penalty. These things are not exclusive to CoH/V anymore and haven't been for some time.
The leveling curve in nearly any MMO could still be considered a grind if you compare it to a single player RPG, though.