hey, as long as we're all pipe dreaming here 
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
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immersion is nonsense. It needs to be dead and buried.
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Speaking of tired old canards.
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Hmm... no argument there. See I've made my arguments for why I think immersion is nonsense. Others have here as well. If you believe that view is a canard, then you can't just say that.
Well, you could, but that would make you a troll. Because a canard is a groundless belief. Since I've presented grounds for why I think immersion is a worthless design consideration and that belief that it is worthwhile is groundless.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Because a canard is a groundless belief. Since I've presented grounds for why I think immersion is a worthless design consideration and that belief that it is worthwhile is groundless.
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And yet, presented with other players' grounds for why they think it isn't a worthless design consideration - which you have been, over and over and over again - you call that belief a canard? Hmm.
Speaking of trolls.
Charles Xavier and Erik Lehnsherr have histories. Batman and Harvey Dent (depending on the continuity) have histories. The relationship between Professor X and Magneto, Batman and Two-Face however is prettty clear cut. Same thing with Peter Parker and Eddie Brock or the Osborns. Since CoH does not touch on origin stories or secret identities, I don't see what the out-of-mask time has to do with it. This is starting to get too far removed from the main topic anyway.
I'd rather keep the PvPers in the four pens that were designed for them. If they can't populate those zones by themselves, that doesn't give them a claim to spread it to the rest of the game. I would fully support something like making the PvP zones cross server.
For an exception, you have to admit that Mayhem missions are a big part of the villains game. Especially since newspapers and banks are all certain groups want to do these days, pfft. Also, I don't see what's so bad about villains fighting villains. You're still going to Paragon, and there's not much love between crooks.
Eh, you think WWs is fun, okay. I think it's a distraction at best, another pit stop between missions at neutral and busy work at worst. Comparing what you're going to sell against store prices, checking the salvage that you have in your vaults, deciding what you're going to craft and what you're going to toss, going over to the campus, etc. etc. It's best function is to just give you something other to do than cycle emotes while you wait for some PuG to take you in.
Actually, I'm watching two in development MMOs at the moment. One is so far removed from this game that it's not worth mentioning. The other? Eh, I'd rather not get this thread locked.
Aaaand it's easy for the current developers to look like the good cop when the predecessor was the one who had to give out the tough love.
<QR>
I'd like to see croatoa ported over as a villain version, where you take jobs from one of the different factions to destroy the other faction....Red Caps, Tuatha, Cabal, Ghosts.
You'd help them break into the town for whatever reason (undermine the town, recover artifacts, blame another faction, kidnap someone important, destroy some protective item, open a portal, trap sacrifices etc...). As you level up you'd work for different factions...after all we're equal opportunity destroyers here 
.
This would do a few things:
<ul type="square">[*]Require less artwork then any new zone would.[*]Gives stuff in the 20 to 30 range, which is needed (Sharkhead i'm looking at you).[*]Lets villains earn the badges that they can only get during holiday events IF the events are run.[*]More magic drops which villains are sorely lacking as most stuff is tech or tech+magic and not pure magic.[*]Chance to add some really cool new stuff to the zone as a revamp. (make the fey realms look more trippy etc)[*]Gives villains a short Strike Force (Katie Hannon Strike Force).[*]Gives villains access to the witches hat costume option, of which there is no way to get for them.[/list]
Djeannie's Costume Creator Overhaul Wishlist
Carnie Base
"Once the avalanche has started, it is too late for the pebbles to vote" -Kosh
Why are people not getting it?
You still have PvE.
You just have the option to PvP too. Wherever you want.
I swear, it's like people see "PvP" and their brains lock up. It's more realistic to see villains in hero zones and heroes in villain zones than treating them like lepers and locking them away. This current mindset in segregation is stupid. It's one of the reasons WoW has 10 million players and CoX has 100K at best.
Oh, and it's not *my* job to get more CoV players. That's the job of NCNC, NCSoft and the devs here. When they pay me to get more players I'll try to do that. Until then, sorry.
*edit: content
I really think Villains need more zones and Villians really needs more Strike Forces. My heros side base can fit 23 beacons but my villian base only needs 8. I think sharing some of the hazard zones would be a good start. This could provide a chance for more co-op content and allow for some villian only mission. The villian only mission being the real reason they are there to turn the zone right under the heroes noses. But the heroes are slowly having hazard zones repaired. Also I like the idea of opening crotoa to both sides the conflicts there are bound to hold villianous interest. Run the reg missions together and have a villian "why we are really here" arc. And a hero "What are the villians up to?" arc.
Could easlily add Strigia, Creys Folly, The Hollows, Eden and the Shadow Shards to the list and boom i need another teleport room for my villian base. As well as develope some villians only content. I like the idea at the beginning of this post of invading a small country or 2. That would also give us a new foe in the for of established militias and scattered cells of freedom fighters. Seems like something Recluse would do.
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Because a canard is a groundless belief. Since I've presented grounds for why I think immersion is a worthless design consideration and that belief that it is worthwhile is groundless.
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And yet, presented with other players' grounds for why they think it isn't a worthless design consideration - which you have been, over and over and over again - you call that belief a canard? Hmm.
Speaking of trolls.
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Show me where anyone has given an ARGUMENT for Immersion. All I've seen is people say that Immersion is a design consideration, without any argument for why that is so. No basis, only their belief that it is important. A belief not GROUNDED in anything other than their preference.
So point out the rational basis presented to argue for immersion. The closest was Joyce who only said that he wouldn't argue the point.
But hey, easier to just make stuff up instead of trying to come up with a cogent argument for immersion right?
Prove me wrong, make an argument that's based in fact. Stop the stupid flaming and support your point. Or prove my point better than I ever could. Your move.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
PvP flag and PvE players
Why not just have marked Newspaper/Scanner missions that turns on the PvP flag. When you select those missions; your character isn't marked PvP until the character actually enters the mission. And a character from the opposite faction can try to stop the other player from succeeding. After the mission their PvP flag will remained on for a duration of OH! 30 minutes. And if the player attacks an NPC group in the street the time would increase for an additional 10 minutes and the location of the incedent would be given out to the other players of the opposite faction that have choosen to do the mission to turn on their PvP flag. Since it only show where the fight was at and not the character, this could be used for some tactical ambushes. And no one except the people who got the PvP flag mission would be effected by this. THEE END.
No duel invites less griefing.
No PvP flag turned on by accidently hitting a player of the opposite faction with an AoE.
Doesn't break immersion, because the hero is going after the villian for actually commiting the crime.
If it ain't broke set it on fire, then say it was a fault in the design.
Main:50 Force Encephalon Mind/Kinetic Controller, Protector Server
Well I notice allot of folks are suggesting ideas for adding hero zones to villians ect ect so I'll try to derail with a suggestion on what I think would be an awesome new Villian Zone :
I call it : Gangland (Alternate Title : The Hollows Except for Villians, but maybe thats too long....)
An early level Hazard Zone for Villians (between 10-20 perhaps)
Background : Gangland was once a thriving tourist city in the 1950's. It was once called New Hollywood, when because of the similiar arid conditions like that of California, was popularly used to film movies when an exotic local was needed or merely somewhere that American Authorities had no sway. The most popular movie of 1953 Gangland (Note there is probably a movie named gangland already irl and it probably wasn't filmed in 1953) was filmed here. The city which sprang up around the film industry was known for it's hedonistic tendacies, infact many of the more popular actors of this era choose to retire on the island, living like Kings on their wealth and fame.
During the Rikti War, an apparent Superweapon was detonated on the Island. It is unknown exactly if the defending humans or attacking Rikti detonated the weapon, but the result was the death of every animal (intelligent or otherwise) in the city. Apart from the damage from the war itself, this superweapon left the city intact, errie sets from unfinished movies remain as they were all those years ago.
Since the end of the Rikti War, attempts to reclaim the city have been foiled by a mysterious destructive force which comes and goes unexpectedly (a Giant Monster perhaps? You could just toss in Babbage easy enough). Further to complicate matters, several of the most viscious gangs of Paragon City have moved into the city, intent on finding the hidden treasure stashes of the buried moviestar estates lost in the Rikti war. Immediately the gangs began fighting for control, making the entire thing a boiling mess. The locals call it Gangland now, after that old classic movie.
Until now, Lord Recluse has been happy enough to forget about Gangland, having more important things to worry about (Statesman's favorite movie had been filmed there....grrrr....stupid hero) but rumours that the original force which depopulated the island might still exist has reached his ears. Perhaps it's time to reopen the roads and let the Destined Ones see what they can stomp up.....
Okay thanks for reading that grammatical nightmare. Here's just a few reasons why Gangland (or a hypothetically similiar zone) could work well for CoV.
Paragon Badges, like the Trolls, Outcast, Warriors ect could be more easily obtained. The game Designers do seem to have allot of experience making Destroyed City scapes, so making the zone would be nothing too new to them. This add some needed content to the early game, and gives the Villians a Hazard zone to reach for. We could even see some cameo's by neat folks like Atta or Frostfire in Villians.
As an added "oh wouldn't this be neat" idea, the story arcs could involve the villians joining each gang, then beating their way to the top of all the factions (Along with a badge for each gang you join maybe) then at the final storyline arc you are literally the King (or Queen) of Gangland, uniting the gangs into a force to reckon with, ready to find that ultimate weapon......then everything falls apart and everyone goes back to fighting on the last mission.
oh that tangled web we weave......
anyhow, I think that would be an awesome zone, thanks for reading.
"I accidently killed Synapse, do we need to restart the mission?" - The Oldest One on Lord Recluses Strike Force
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This current mindset in segregation is stupid. It's one of the reasons WoW has 10 million players and CoX has 100K at best.
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About 130K I believe.
And I suspect the fact that Blizzard put out several high quality games before WoW and had a massive fan base in Asia had a bit more to do with it.
I get what you're saying. I'm just saying that there are people who would not like it.
I've been a lowly Druid calling down Moonbeams on a rooted PvPer in the 'safe' zone who was so much higher than me I couldn't see his level. It was fun...much more fun than getting ambushed by NPC merlocks while I'm underwater and drowning...but I digress.
But one of the reasons I play this game and not that one is that you can't do that here. It's a preference. And everytime I set foot in a PvP Zone or heck on the PvP forums, I am reminded why I have that preference.
Loners being ambushed by 3 full teams.
Stalkers who AS and run.
Having to move around like a twirling pogo stick all the time.
Being teleported to a drone.
I'm not here to condemn that gameplay. I'll have that gameplay when I choose it, and not while zoning in from a mission door, thank you very much.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
The point of porting croatoa over is:
<ul type="square">[*]Least amount of work for the developers to do. They don't have to spend resource time and money doing a whole new zone from scratch.[*]Most benefit for villains in drops and content zone gap.[/list]
Djeannie's Costume Creator Overhaul Wishlist
Carnie Base
"Once the avalanche has started, it is too late for the pebbles to vote" -Kosh
Boomtown War of Reichsman
PvP/CoOp/PvE flag
With PvP flag selected.
Heroes see reason Villains are fighting is to secure their own gains and aren't fighting for anyone else.
Villains figure while the Heroes are occupied with the Council vs. Reichsman War that the Heroes are more vulnerable.
Buffing and Debuffing missions similar to Siren's Call
PvP mission only effect PvP flaged players.
Can't do PvE missions nor CoOp missions
CoOp flag
Both figure it might be best to work together for the time. (suspicion face)
CoOp missions added.
Can't do PvP missions.
Can't do PvE missions.
PvE
Heroes concentrating on getting rid of Reichsman and ending the war.
Villains concentrating on getting the gain of it, whether it would be, being hired as a hitman, moving equipment, or sabotaging.
Same missions for heroes.
Added missions for villains.
Can't do PvP missions.
Can't do CoOp missions.
Players must choose their flag at the gate, or be defaulted PvE flag.
Players of one flag type can't effect players of a different flag type even of the same faction.
Players can only aid players of a different flag type, by helping defeat NPCs. Players can't buff players of a different flag type to help against the NPCs.
Players of a different flag type are shown as invalid target.
Must go back to the gate to change flag.
At Gate auto PvE flag in enabled
Increased Clockwork activity due to the large large increase of Tech from both sides.
Masacre of Trolls, Outcasts, and Vahzilok (Sorry guys; if there was a war between The Council and Reichmans, these guys would be without luck.)
Striga Island and the Nictus Successors
CoOp/PvE flag
PvE Flag
Villains get a story arch
Heroes remain the same.
Can't do CoOp mission
CoOp Flag
CoOp missions added.
Can't do PvE missions.
Increased spawn of Nictus and Nictus Hybrids.
Are slightly weakened to Kheldians than Nictus from other zones. Story is they just in habited their host and haven't gained their full strenght against Kheldians, yet.
More new Nictus tech. (maybe Nictus temp-Quantum gun) Quantum equiped tech. Nictus Heavies. Nictus one-maned ships.
MegaRobot finally gets built. Completeing the Hess TF causes it to spawn.
Flyer robot guards with patrols.
Mech post guards
Skyraiders struggle to the point some enlist the aid of Heroes.
Won't be a massacre of Skyraiders, Banished, Warriors because they're better able of taking care of themselves.
Players one flag type can't buff or debuff players of a different flag type.
Players of a different type are shown as invalid target.
If it ain't broke set it on fire, then say it was a fault in the design.
Main:50 Force Encephalon Mind/Kinetic Controller, Protector Server
So immersion is now a dirty vile thing, do you people just smash buttons? Isn't the world history and background important?
Maybe it's just me, but I can suspend disbelief a little (hell, I even bought into the fact that Jeff Goldblum used an Apple to take down an entire alien race -- didn't know PASCAL was soooo damn powerful).
Above and beyond that little rant, more zones doesn't equal better gameplay. Opening all zones to both factions spreads thin the player base; even if all the other obstacles were overcome (i.e. stores, drones, trainers etc.) Adding one or two new zones to the villain side along with opening the outlying areas, like Croatoa, Striga and the Shards, would be huge.
I specifically picked these zones because they are not physically connected to Greater Paragon. Imho opening The Hollows, Boomtown, Crey's etc. would be acceptable if they were developed similiar to the RWZ.
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Imho opening The Hollows, Boomtown, Crey's etc. would be acceptable if they were developed similiar to the RWZ.
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I would be cool with this and with a few past posts on a spin-off of open-world PvP.
I think instead of taking the risky dive into the deep end by opening up all zones to both sides it may be better to have one unique hybrid PvP/PvE zone, perhaps somewhere that doesn't see much current use, like Boomtown. It may get labelled a 'PvP' zone and never used, or it may be the biggest thing since sliced bread and the Devs just have to implement it on a wider scale.
Before any of this happens though, I'd really just like to see a few more contacts sprinkled across the current villian zones for variety, and an entire new zone or two. Why? Because many Villians seem to be sick of their new zones being co-op, or hero copies, and would rather have some Villian-only love. I agree with them, as their current situation seems a bit unfair.
I guess only time will tell. Our Dev team has earned my trust in handling these scenarios, and I have a feeling they won't dissapoint, it'll just take and Issue or two.
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Show me where anyone has given an ARGUMENT for Immersion. All I've seen is people say that Immersion is a design consideration, without any argument for why that is so. No basis, only their belief that it is important. A belief not GROUNDED in anything other than their preference.
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The arguement is right in front of you. If immersion was not important, this would not be any sort of City of Heroes or City of Villians. We'd be teddy bear soldiers in space armed with magical laser guns of fun from an alternate dimension ruled by blood-sucking men from the pits of damnation. A game has a theme, and this game happens to be based on super heroes.
Now, your arguement about Doctor Xavier and Magneto are understandable points, but they are the exception, not the rule. Those two mutants may have a personal connection, but when you have a city full of super-powered do-gooders and evil-doers, such connections are more rare. Spider-Man may have a personal vendetta against Venom, but that's not his only enemy, and if he spies Juggernaught causing mayhem he'll stop him without pause. Your scenario brings to mind an intensely story-driven arch-nemesis system rather than the more-likely-under-your-system case of a hero stopping a villian, with whom he has no prior connection, but is nevertheless posing a threat to society.
Now, until I see a God-send foolproof way to give us an immersive, open-world combination of PvE and PvP without rewriting the game from the ground-up, I'll sign such a thing. But a simple 'Give Villians Paragon City' aint gunna cut it.
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The arguement is right in front of you. If immersion was not important, this would not be any sort of City of Heroes or City of Villians. We'd be teddy bear soldiers in space armed with magical laser guns of fun from an alternate dimension ruled by blood-sucking men from the pits of damnation. A game has a theme, and this game happens to be based on super heroes.
Now, your arguement about Doctor Xavier and Magneto are understandable points, but they are the exception, not the rule. Those two mutants may have a personal connection, but when you have a city full of super-powered do-gooders and evil-doers, such connections are more rare. Spider-Man may have a personal vendetta against Venom, but that's not his only enemy, and if he spies Juggernaught causing mayhem he'll stop him without pause. Your scenario brings to mind an intensely story-driven arch-nemesis system rather than the more-likely-under-your-system case of a hero stopping a villian, with whom he has no prior connection, but is nevertheless posing a threat to society.
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OK, that's a decent and reasoned argument. I'm not so set in my view that I won't acknowledge a reasoned point.
But let me retort.
The game's theme is superheroes. Fair enough. You state that immersion requires that we remain separate because the alternative would require PvP or nothing. My view is that position is AT BEST the lesser of two evils on the immersion front.
Because, if we look at NY City in the Marvel Universe, no reasonable person could argue that the City isn't absolutely filled with both heroes and villains. No person who reads comics could reasonable argue that every time heroes and villains see each other they break into open combat.
Thus by keeping player villains out of Paragon City we simply create the opposite problem for immersion. We have a City where there are few costumed villains. Even among the NPCs, most villains are part of the organized militias. That's really not particularly in theme.
It would be in theme for villains to be able to run around Paragon City. The ONLY thing that would break immersion, such as it is, is the inability to combat player villains at will. That cannot break immersion to any greater extent than the current situation where heroes purposefully ignore NPC villains simply because they aren't worth any exp (grey) or they are not in a mission instance.
The thing you claim would break your immersion, already exists in a very real sense. Heroes ignore crime and villainy simply because the game's rules make it not worthwhile. That is NOT in theme for comics.
So if we're really just choosing between two situations, neither of which are in theme, then how can it be unreasonable to choose the option that provides more gameplay choices for the majority of players?
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Show me where anyone has given an ARGUMENT for Immersion.
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The game itself is a strong argument for immersion. All games that are not completely abstract are. That's why we have games with themes, instead of just featureless black and white pieces, in the first place. Otherwise, we might as well just be in a huge white room with a level dispenser and some mission doors off to one side. Cripes, even incredibly primitive computer games like Spacewar and Arkanoid involve at least attempting to imagine you're someone else, somewhere else, doing something else. They required more suspension of disbelief than modern games, but that's just a function of the technology involved. The principle remains the same, and just as fundamental now as then.
See, this is why I think you're trolling - because the alternative is to believe that you're just so monumentally culturally tone-deaf that you don't grasp this fundamental fact underlying the entire concept of games, and since you're able to operate a computer and form sentences, that seems somehow unlikely.
As for where players have specifically made the case for immersion in City of Heroes? Grow up. You've been around here a long time, I've been here a long time, and I've watched you have this same ridiculous argument four or five times over the years against whole successive generations of people. The phrasing changes, the avatars change, the song remains the same. And since I don't think you're genuinely clueless enough to believe what you're saying, the only alternative is that you just get off on taking untenable positions and "defending" them with cheap rhetorical stunts.
I suppose everyone needs a hobby.
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Show me where anyone has given an ARGUMENT for Immersion.
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The game itself is a strong argument for immersion. All games that are not completely abstract are. That's why we have games with themes, instead of just featureless black and white pieces, in the first place. Otherwise, we might as well just be in a huge white room with a level dispenser and some mission doors off to one side. Cripes, even incredibly primitive computer games like Spacewar and Arkanoid involve at least attempting to imagine you're someone else, somewhere else, doing something else. They required more suspension of disbelief than modern games, but that's just a function of the technology involved. The principle remains the same, and just as fundamental now as then.
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A theme is simply a starting point. Despite the fact that theme can go either way in this specific context, theme cannot be used as the sole argument to defeat anything you don't like.
Because if it does, then you have to be consistent.
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See, this is why I think you're trolling - because the alternative is to believe that you're just so monumentally culturally tone-deaf that you don't grasp this fundamental fact underlying the entire concept of games, and since you're able to operate a computer and form sentences, that seems somehow unlikely.
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I could literally say the same thing. You all ignore the dozens of inconsistencies with theme, deeming them all acceptable, but then condemn this idea because it would be the most anti-thematic thing in the universe. That's why it's difficult to take any of you seriously. You use immersion tactically, only to down the things you don't like. While I'm consistent and admit quite reasonably that it's not a consideration that's worth worrying about.
Trolls say anything to keep a fight going. I've been clear and consistent. I will acknowledge reasonable points. I'll give you specifically this. Of the many people I've had these arguments with, you are at least somewhat consistent. You do seem to have a fairly consistent view about the way you would like the game to be and what you think is in theme. It's a terribly boring and limited theme and thankfully the devs have moved on, but at least you seem to stick to it.
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As for where players have specifically made the case for immersion in City of Heroes? Grow up. You've been around here a long time, I've been here a long time, and I've watched you have this same ridiculous argument four or five times over the years against whole successive generations of people. The phrasing changes, the avatars change, the song remains the same. And since I don't think you're genuinely clueless enough to believe what you're saying, the only alternative is that you just get off on taking untenable positions and "defending" them with cheap rhetorical stunts.
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Yes, I've had this argument multiple times. And each time we boil this immersion nonsense to it's core. There is no "immersion". It's just like Vega said. It's something someone doesn't like so they trot out immersion as their shield.
It didn't work with crafting, it didn't work with loot, and hopefully it will not work to defeat a proposal that will add more vibrancy to the game.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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You all ignore the dozens of inconsistencies with theme, deeming them all acceptable, but then condemn this idea because it would be the most anti-thematic thing in the universe.
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Er, actually, no. I deplore a number of the alterations to the game that have damaged my ability to suspend disbelief. Don't take being stuck with something for accepting it.
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hopefully it will not work to defeat a proposal that will add more vibrancy to the game.
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Oh, there are plenty of other reasons not to do the "open all zones" thing. The documented fact that flagged PvP has failed miserably in other games, for instance. But hey, you don't really want to hear any of that. The really funny thing here is that you're doing exactly what you're huffily indicting everyone else for. You like this idea, and that's all that really matters to you.
So, fine. You hope it happens; I hope it doesn't. The main difference is that if it doesn't, your enjoyment level remains the same; if it does, mine goes down. I'll take your no-op over my net loss any day. That's just logical self-interest.
Ironically, in neither event will our feelings affect whether the development team takes action. We're just two clowns fighting in a tiny car over something about which the vast majority of the circus's other 130,000 clowns don't even care.
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Stalkers who AS and run.
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Take AS away from a stalker and what do you have? A very gimp scrapper. Take defiance along with BU + AIM away from a blaster, and you have a very gimped Corruptor. Defender without buffs/debuffs? Not very useful.
Please, don't complain about stalkers ASing you. You know how stalkers work, if you're in a pvp zone, don't stand still. Make it harder for them to AS you. If they AS and run, and you happened to get killed, they did their job and accomplished, you failed at stopping them. Don't wanna get ASed? move around, and bring greens to get past the burst damage. Not too complicated? But I guess when you PvE all the time, you want it to be just as easy no?
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The arguement is right in front of you. If immersion was not important, this would not be any sort of City of Heroes or City of Villians. We'd be teddy bear soldiers in space armed with magical laser guns of fun from an alternate dimension ruled by blood-sucking men from the pits of damnation. A game has a theme, and this game happens to be based on super heroes.
Now, your arguement about Doctor Xavier and Magneto are understandable points, but they are the exception, not the rule. Those two mutants may have a personal connection, but when you have a city full of super-powered do-gooders and evil-doers, such connections are more rare. Spider-Man may have a personal vendetta against Venom, but that's not his only enemy, and if he spies Juggernaught causing mayhem he'll stop him without pause. Your scenario brings to mind an intensely story-driven arch-nemesis system rather than the more-likely-under-your-system case of a hero stopping a villian, with whom he has no prior connection, but is nevertheless posing a threat to society.
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OK, that's a decent and reasoned argument. I'm not so set in my view that I won't acknowledge a reasoned point.
But let me retort.
The game's theme is superheroes. Fair enough. You state that immersion requires that we remain separate because the alternative would require PvP or nothing. My view is that position is AT BEST the lesser of two evils on the immersion front.
Because, if we look at NY City in the Marvel Universe, no reasonable person could argue that the City isn't absolutely filled with both heroes and villains. No person who reads comics could reasonable argue that every time heroes and villains see each other they break into open combat.
Thus by keeping player villains out of Paragon City we simply create the opposite problem for immersion. We have a City where there are few costumed villains. Even among the NPCs, most villains are part of the organized militias. That's really not particularly in theme.
It would be in theme for villains to be able to run around Paragon City. The ONLY thing that would break immersion, such as it is, is the inability to combat player villains at will. That cannot break immersion to any greater extent than the current situation where heroes purposefully ignore NPC villains simply because they aren't worth any exp (grey) or they are not in a mission instance.
The thing you claim would break your immersion, already exists in a very real sense. Heroes ignore crime and villainy simply because the game's rules make it not worthwhile. That is NOT in theme for comics.
So if we're really just choosing between two situations, neither of which are in theme, then how can it be unreasonable to choose the option that provides more gameplay choices for the majority of players?
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Excellent points.
I totally agree on your assessment of our current situation. This game certainly isn't the paradigm of immersement, and many things could very easily be changed for the better with a little thinking. I hope you understand that I don't only bring this immersion shpeel out to defend my beliefs, but also to confirm other suggestions. I know the neccessity of some suggestions regardless of their realism, but I also know suggestions that are already on shaky grounds, and not being true to the theme doesn't help them stand. Regardless, we can agree to disagree that immersion may or may not be an important consideration.
In case it hasn't been noted, I could completely /sign with a totally open-world, I just think it needs much more refinement than your simple first reply to this thread explained. If we had a system for villians hiding in the seedy underbelly of Paragon, and Heroes going undercover with the help of Legacy Chain or Longbow in the Isles (perhaps something like a special 'disguise' costume, and a permanent Confuse on the enemies that can be broken in very unique situations) than I could very easily drop the immersion arguement. It could be done, just some planning is needed.
I'm not complaining; I understand why Stalkers play that way, and it makes sense.
It's just not fun for me to perform or experience very often, thus one reason I don't PvP much.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
IMHO, immersion is something th game needs more of, rather than less of.
However, immersion is not my only reason for not wanting an FFA world as my only choice. It's just that having to ask a villain politely to stop beating down that PPD cop so I could duel him please would be something I disliked.
Please don't add things to the game that I dislike. 
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
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) in that any allocation of resources that does not LOOK LIKELY to garner a profit just ain't happening.
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You go to the Tram (or submarine) and see:
Atlas Park (PvE)
Atlas Park (PvP)
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I like this idea. It keeps PvP optional while adding variety to the zones. However, I'd group all the PvE stuff at the top, have it so people have to scroll down to the PvP group at the bottom... just so there aren't any complaints about accidentally clicking on the one below what they wanted.
OR, thinking a bit more on it... have the PvP versions be accessable from OB portals, so that they could be on a different "shard" where some key technologies were circumvented and Arachnos has a bigger foothold.
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You might as well leave things the way they are now. That's a big waste of resources for what amounts to what we already have, which is PvPers stuffed away in a corner somewhere.
I'm guessing many of you have never tried WoW because you don't understand what I was talking about, and I think EG is talking about too. Heroes and villains in the same zone doesn't mean world PvP, it doesn't mean you can attack each other at any time. That's what a PvP server is.
What I was suggesting is like the PvE servers of WoW; both factions can enter any zone, but can only PvP if they turn on their PvP flag. Also, attacking a member of the opposite faction automatically turns on the flag.
Missions would need to be spread out across all zones. New contacts and stores would need to be placed, but that isn't any more work than is being suggested in this thread, especially the suggestion of running 3 versions of each zone. That's 3 versions of each zone on every server!
Heroes and villains would not be "paling around" because it's not a shared zone of the type we now have. The missions would not suddenly all become co-op. PvP could take place anywhere if players wanted to take part in it. It would not be forced upon anyone like in the current PvP zones.
As for the comments that PvPers or villain players don't matter because their numbers are so small....I'm sick of the elitist attitude in this game. Those players pay the same each month that hero players do. They're entitled to the same treatment by the dev team that the hero players receive. Alienating any subset of players, for any reason, is not good business practice. Doing that anywhere else would be construed as prejudice and unacceptable. Why is it acceptable here?
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I can see that in some game, maybe CO. I just don't want it here. If CO were that way (WoWesque), I might play it, but I'd still want to have the same option of PvE gameplay I have now as well.
Even if I were hardcore PvP, I wouldn't want to 'force' it on others who don't want it if there is an option.
As far as Villains or PvP not getting equal treatment, that's something you have to take up with the bean counters (no offense to any bean counters, such as Arcanaville
Catch-22: Get more villain players and PvP players into the game, and more resources will get thrown that way.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!