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So we do about half the damage of Blasters due to Defiance (even though it's supposed to be 65%), and Controllers who share our powers only get the lower % they're supposed to on non-mez effects.
Wow... and the devs see absolutely nothing wrong with this double standard? No wonder why so many people (myself included) have virtually given up playing Defenders. Why would you play an AT when other ATs can do nearly everything you do significantly better, not to mention a crapload of things you can only DREAM of being able to do.
JUST...NOT...RIGHT...
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Well, keep in mind that you're comparing three things here. You're comparing Defenders to Blasters, Controllers to Defenders, and Blasters to Controllers. Each of these, in theory, specializes in one of three areas, damage, defense, and control. Blasters are supposed to be good at damage, not so good at defense, but still have some control. Controllers are supposed to be good at control, not so good at damage, but still have some defense. And Defenders are supposed to be good at defense, not quite so good at control, but at least have some damage.
The problem is that for most Defenders, you're talking about damage that can be boosted by their Primary. So rather than doing 65% damage, or 50% of a Blaster's damage, they can do like 85% of the base modifier, or (surprise, suprise...) 75% of a Blaster's damage. FF doesn't get that option. But for those that do, they're doing 75% of a Blaster's damage, when a Blaster doesn't have anywhere NEAR 75% of a Defender's defense. (maybe a solo FF Defender's defense, but not a Rad Defender's defense)
The problem is, that while a Defender can use his buffs to increase his damage, a Controller can, too. And Controllers have Containment, as well. Really, Controllers needed containment, you need damage to be able to solo. But it messed up the balance. Controllers now have okay damage, okay defense, and really good control. There's no longer a big gap between the damage a Defender can do, and what a Controller can do.
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Well, not really. I made a post a few pages back in comparing Blasters, Corruptors, and Defenders as they share the same AT modifiers. And even for Defender sets that get resistance debuffs, the value of the debuffs drops sharply as you fight higher level and higher class foes. So it might be 30% against a white minion, but only 15% against a +2 boss.
And you forget that it takes endurance to run these buffs and debuffs -- endurance that many Defenders, especially solo, won't have due to the borked implementation of Vigilance. So even though you *might* approach 75% of a Blaster's damage in certain situations, it's gonna cost you twice as much endurance; even MORE if you're running multiple buffs/debuffs simultaneously. Trust me, really, it DOESN'T work out well for the Defender, especially solo.
You don't really see how bad it is until you do solo, even on heroic. On a team the Defender is usually too busy defending to be blasting much, or even worrying about it. But soloing is where all the flaws shine brightly, and you get to see exactly how frakked up the entire AT really is.
And there is NO comparison between Controllers and Defenders. Controllers do more damage, have significantly better control, and only slightly weaker buffs/debuffs. All the benefits of the Defender without any of the weaknesses. And nearly all Controllers can solo at a good pace, even without the pet.
I said this before too; if you have any doubt, roll up an identical Defender and Corruptor -- same sets, same powers, slotted the same way. Then go solo each for a few levels and see it all for yourself. Corruptors do significantly more damage due to Scourge, yet have buffs/debuffs that are only a small % less effective than a Defender (roughly the same level as Controllers). It's by no means balanced; not even close.
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...but in an oh crap situation, one where you might actually use this power, you certainly don't want entire classes of critters being able to ignore or resist it.
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The animation time is too long for an oh crap power, the duration is too short, and the overall effect just not good enough. When the crap hits the fan, this is not going to stop it.
EM pulse is an oh crap power. Use it and the team gets 20-40 seconds of breathing space. Repulsion Bomb is a run of the mill power - and to be competitive, run of the mill powers cannot be situational.
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They are? I just need more sleep then. :P Didn't see anything about the Shields suggestions so wasn't sure. (the defender able to use them on themselves, but PFF cancelling it) Thanks.
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You're right, that one is missing but honestly, that will never happen. It just won't. It WOULD make us into tankers, and the devs will never do that.
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And the game engine won't allow it. We are not permitted to target ourselves for this very reason -- they do not want us using teammate-only powers on ourselves.
FF is not the only set with this kind of disparity. Empathy, Sonic, and Kinetics share it as well. Yeah, it makes no sense why I can cast Clear Mind on a teammate but not myself, but "game balance" (or lack thereof) dictates the Defender is always weaker and less protected than his teammates.
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since it's impossible using this engine to target yourself.
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There is that too. A power can either target an ally, yourself ONLY, or act as an AoE. Someone else (I believe Jock) already suggested making the bubbles into an AoE "aura", but that's not gonna happen.
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Didn't think of that due to the lack of status protection which does amount to a lot in this game.
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Excluding Sleep, which is our one and only weakness, Dispersion Bubble as it is right now gives us enough status protection to let us survive TWO holds at the same time. THREE holds have to hit us before we actually get held. If you were to add the single target bubbles to the Dispersion Bubble, all FF Defenders would have 40% Defense to ALL types of attacks PLUS Mag 8.65 Status Protection against ALL attacks but Sleep. PLUS we still have knockback powers AND we shoot ranged attacks.
That is the very definition of a Tank-Mage. The devs would never allow that. And I agree that we shouldn't have that kind of power. Right now you can "tank" inside Personal Force Field, given the tradeoff that you can't attack or taunt enemies. I think that's fair and well balanced for the best defense in the game.
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And the game engine won't allow it...
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It could be implemented as a self-affecting buff aura, like Accelerate Metabolism. Not going to happen, but it IS possible to do.
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They are? I just need more sleep then. :P Didn't see anything about the Shields suggestions so wasn't sure. (the defender able to use them on themselves, but PFF cancelling it) Thanks.
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Hi willnova. As PK said, that most likely wouldn't happen, especially since it's impossible using this engine to target yourself. But a suggestion has been entered to swap the +DEF values on Dispersion and the targetted bubbles, resulting in more DEF for the Defender, maintaining the value provided to a teammate within Dispersion, but lowering the value provided to a teammate outside of Dispersion. I think that suggestion is one you might agree with.
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It *should* be, if it were the case. I'm not any more privy to the numbers than anyone else, but I'm betting it's just not the case statistically. I think it's more of an issue where there may be some that simply don't play or have abandoned the set, there are more that simply accept it as is, taking the big 4 and ignoring the rest in favor of secondary or pool powers, and make the best of it, either in an active or barely-active playstyle.
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I disagree. I think the problem is that FF is shared by three AT's, two of which are the most powerful in the game, and the last (FF Defenders spcifically) one of the least powerful in the game. That makes for a balancing headache, and the devs have shown no desire to treat the FF Defender powerset as separate from Controllers and MM's. Quite frankly I think that FF Defenders will never see improvement, because the developers think FF works great for Controllers and MM's.
FF has always been a better secondary than a primary. It's no coincidence that it didn't make it into CoV as a primary; they've learned that the current set isn't appropriate as a primary.
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I'm sure that has a lot to do with it too. In examining how FF performs they not only look at Defenders, but Controllers and Masterminds too. And as I've stated numerous times, the set does NOT underperform, as the 4 big powers work very, very well, both as a primary and secondary set.
The benefits of using FF as a Controller secondary is that you can negate alot of the uncontrolled knockback by simply using your AoE immobilize power (turning Repulsion Bomb into an additional AoE disorient - now with even more containment damage!) and/or using your pet to suck up the aggro you get from using Repulsion Field and Force Bubble.
None of these options are available to the Defender. But I still stand by my original statement -- you can be an FF Defender, take only the big 4 powers, and still give better protection to your team than any other Defender, hands down. There is no NEED for the other 5 powers. And for many people who use the FF set, either as a Defender or something else, that's enough for them.
While it would be nice if those other 5 powers were reworked into a form that would provide some variety for the FF Defender, I simply don't think it's going to happen. Castle will ultimately decide his time is better spent fixing sets that are statistically underperforming instead of spicing up sets that perform fine but are just bland.
It's the same reason, and catch-22, that's going to keep Defenders as the suck-all AT for a long time to come. Since it's very difficult to solo a Defender, hardly no one does it; they all seek out teams. And since Defenders perform very well on teams datamining Defender performance is going to show nothing unusual.
Now if someone decided to datamine Defender performance, debt, and leveling speed while SOLO, and only SOLO, I think they'd see a vastly different picture. The question is, will anyone be bothered to do it, and if so, will anyone care?
I'm beginning to believe the devs are quite content with Defenders just the way they are; with their vastly imbalanced AT modifiers and horribly inadequate inherent ability -- so long as the datamining says Defenders are fine, to hell with what actual players are telling you.
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...but in an oh crap situation, one where you might actually use this power, you certainly don't want entire classes of critters being able to ignore or resist it.
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The animation time is too long for an oh crap power, the duration is too short, and the overall effect just not good enough. When the crap hits the fan, this is not going to stop it.
EM pulse is an oh crap power. Use it and the team gets 20-40 seconds of breathing space. Repulsion Bomb is a run of the mill power - and to be competitive, run of the mill powers cannot be situational.
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LOL, I never said it was a GOOD 'oh crap' power, I just said that's its only legitimate use. I can't see any other good reason for sending mobs flying in all directions unless there is a problem.
And it's NOT a competitive power, hence why so few take it. It is for all intents and purposes a ranged version of Super Strength/Hand Clap. And when was the last time you saw a competent tank use THAT power?
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And the game engine won't allow it...
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It could be implemented as a self-affecting buff aura, like Accelerate Metabolism. Not going to happen, but it IS possible to do.
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Y'know how much I would LOVE it if all ally-shield powers worked like this, even if they didn't buff the caster? Instead of having to cast 14 shields every 4 minutes you would only have to cast 2 AoE powers. How frakkin sweet would THAT be???
And like I said, I wouldn't even care if they didn't have a +self component. It certainly would reduce 99% of the tedium involved playing Sonic and FF.
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But that's exactly what they DON'T want us doing -- hiding in PFF with all our other toggles running, dropping it every 4 minutes to refresh teammate bubbles. It's the same reason they made drastic changes to the MM version of PFF, like the super long recharge and inability to control your pets.
I think you've got one of two options with PFF -- either leave it the way it is or drop the defense to Deflection/Insulation Shield levels and let you attack normally.
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Yeah, but therein lies the rub. PFF has a huge penalty that Controllers and Masterminds can get around. The devs can nerf it in individual Power Sets if they want, but that doesn't change the fact that Controller and Mastermind pets can attack through PFF, when Defenders, for the most part, do not have that capability.
In order to equalize that imbalance, you've got to either assume the protection is emergency only, on the part of the Defender, or as you said, completely change PFFs defensive capability and purpose. Which, while it will certainly help the FF Defender solo, it will probably interfere with Blasters or Controllers that use the power for its stated purpose of staying alive when HP hits the red. And eliminate that use of it for Defenders as well.
It's almost like FF needs two defensive powers, once that can be used normally, as a weaker version of Insulation/Deflection, and one that is still available for the emergencies. Making PFF do both is nearly impossible, and from the changes it went through during Beta, I feel the devs have already done their best to try and make it both.
Ultimately, I have turned my attention elsewhere. I just haven't abandoned the suggestion or the possibilities that it represents.
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[Repulsion Bomb] is for all intents and purposes a ranged version of Super Strength/Hand Clap. And when was the last time you saw a competent tank use THAT power?
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Very good point. And notice how much issue there is with the Thugs Bruiser continually using that power. Yet I consider it very unlikely the devs would make Hand Clap a knockdown power, because by dropping all the foes right at the Tanker's feet, you set up the potential for chained knockdown. The devs assumed it would be useful to knock foes away from you, but underestimated the impact of having to chase them down again and reestablish aggro, and aura powers such as Invincibility and Rise to the Challenge.
It's a Catch-22. You can't knock them down without making it too powerful, and can't knock them away without making it too weak.
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And even if that is the case, then why make Force Bubble a Tier 9 power? Why not make it more of a toggle buff, and move it down, and make some other short duration click power your Tier 9?
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Because they will NEVER move powers around in established sets, nor change the core function of a power. This is A#1 taboo, as stated recently by Castle. So for now till the end of days, Force Bubble will be FFs tier 9, and it will always be some kind of AoE repel power. Any changes have to be made within that framework.
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Yes, but nobody ever said that the Tier 9 power has to be the most powerful. Everybody just assumes that.
Just as an example, Foot Stomp is a very powerful attack, but going by Scrapper sets as a guide, you would find Knockout Blow in that slot.
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They are? I just need more sleep then. :P Didn't see anything about the Shields suggestions so wasn't sure. (the defender able to use them on themselves, but PFF cancelling it) Thanks.
[/ QUOTE ]Hi willnova. As PK said, that most likely wouldn't happen, especially since it's impossible using this engine to target yourself. But a suggestion has been entered to swap the +DEF values on Dispersion and the targetted bubbles, resulting in more DEF for the Defender, maintaining the value provided to a teammate within Dispersion, but lowering the value provided to a teammate outside of Dispersion. I think that suggestion is one you might agree with.
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My suggestion would be to introduce the extra +Def somewhere else. Or even in Dispersion Bubble. Just have the caster stack an extra 10% Defense or so on himself. There are other places it could be put, maybe making it a durational thing based on a click, but the idea is just to boost defense a but to duplicate the Deflection/Insulation shields.
I don't think it would make the FF Defender a "tank mage" in that there is already plenty of defense that a Dark or Rad Defender can provide for himself. In fact, the FF tendency to pick up Aid Self and Aid Other probably adds just enough damage mitigation to compensate for the lower defense. Aid Other is more of a backup for emergencies, while Aid Self is a major defense. Such a defense wouldn't be needed if the FF's personal defense was more balanced. (The same goes for any Pool power, such as Tough or Weave)
The FF's damage is already lower than any other Defender in the game, and I can tell you from experience, his defense is anything but tank mage level. And the defense does not have to be the full 15% of an Insulation or Deflection Shield, it can be 10%, as I suggested, or 7.5%, as long as it reduces the gap between the protection of Dispersion alone, and the protection of Dispersion plus the bubbles.
My own personal, preference, though, would be to get more damage. I think that I wouldn't need the protection if I had more of a balance towards offense, instead of defense. More defense WOULD help Defenders survive better in groups, though, which would likely help them more in the long run.
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FF has always been a better secondary than a primary. It's no coincidence that it didn't make it into CoV as a primary; they've learned that the current set isn't appropriate as a primary.
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Not for nothing, but no Buff-Debuff set made it into CoV as a Primary. Corruptors have Buff-Debuff Secondaries.
I believe you do have a point, though, that Corruptors don't have access to FF. I think this proves, more than anything else, that FF is not an appropriate set for a offensively oriented ranged character, and the devs are aware of this.
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[Repulsion Bomb] is for all intents and purposes a ranged version of Super Strength/Hand Clap. And when was the last time you saw a competent tank use THAT power?
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Very good point. And notice how much issue there is with the Thugs Bruiser continually using that power. Yet I consider it very unlikely the devs would make Hand Clap a knockdown power, because by dropping all the foes right at the Tanker's feet, you set up the potential for chained knockdown. The devs assumed it would be useful to knock foes away from you, but underestimated the impact of having to chase them down again and reestablish aggro, and aura powers such as Invincibility and Rise to the Challenge.
It's a Catch-22. You can't knock them down without making it too powerful, and can't knock them away without making it too weak.
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But remember, Hand Clap and Repulsion Bomb were created waaaay back in beta, long before GDN and ED, back when critters were dumb as sticks and there was no need for "aggro management" cause threat hadn't been written into the AI yet. Back when an INV tank could hit over 100% defense using Invincibility, and could do 380% damage all on his own.
Those powers were not really all that popular then, but it was a lot less of an issue if someone used it. At most it was simply annoying. Now, 3+ years later, with toons a shadow of their former selves, aggro control is absolutely necessary, and anything that tosses foes around mindlessly is not just annoying, but deadly.
The game has changed. The powers have not.
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And even if that is the case, then why make Force Bubble a Tier 9 power? Why not make it more of a toggle buff, and move it down, and make some other short duration click power your Tier 9?
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Because they will NEVER move powers around in established sets, nor change the core function of a power. This is A#1 taboo, as stated recently by Castle. So for now till the end of days, Force Bubble will be FFs tier 9, and it will always be some kind of AoE repel power. Any changes have to be made within that framework.
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Yes, but nobody ever said that the Tier 9 power has to be the most powerful. Everybody just assumes that.
Just as an example, Foot Stomp is a very powerful attack, but going by Scrapper sets as a guide, you would find Knockout Blow in that slot.
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I'm not sure I understand your point. Foot Stomp get's its tier 9 status not because it does a lot of damage (it doesn't really), it's because it's the only AoE in the set, and is superior to powers like Whirling Hands in both damage, damage mitigation, and size of AoE.
Now it could have been put lower and switched with KOBlow, I think it's six of one half dozen of the other. But tanker sets aren't a good comparison against Defender sets.
We assume, and I think rightfully so, that a tier 9 powers should be greater or more powerful than a tier 8, and so on. As we level up the powers should be more and more powerful. Which makes some of the choices in the FF set even more bewildering.
I mean, Force Bolt is like Energy/Power Push. Repulsion Bomb is basically ranged Hand Clap. Detention Field is like any other cage power. Repulsion Field is a weaker version of Kinetics/Repel, which is available much earlier, and Force Bubble is a giant-sized version of Hurricane (also available much earlier) minus all the useful debuffs.
There is nothing new or original in FF after you get Dispersion Bubble. And what is available are in many cases the 1 stinker power in a set that no one takes (Power Push, Repel, Hand Clap, and the cage powers). The only useful mimic is Hurricane. But Force Bubble is a pale imitation of it, with no debuffs and one sole attribute, repel.
Even if they gave Force Bubble the same debuffs as Hurricane you'd still have a tier 6 powers available at lvl 12 doing the same thing as a tier 9 power available at 32.
So while most other Defender primaries seem to follow some kind of rhyme and reason with their tiers, FF does not. It's like they ran out of good FF ideas after 4 powers and decided to just recycle thematic powers from other sets without any thought as to their usefulness. And then again, maybe that was the intention, we'll never know. Maybe the reason the bottom 5 suck so badly is because the big 4 are so good. Who knows?
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The FF's damage is already lower than any other Defender in the game, and I can tell you from experience, his defense is anything but tank mage level. And the defense does not have to be the full 15% of an Insulation or Deflection Shield, it can be 10%, as I suggested, or 7.5%, as long as it reduces the gap between the protection of Dispersion alone, and the protection of Dispersion plus the bubbles.
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You know, off the top of my head, why couldn't both Dispersion and Deflection/Insulation have base 15%, but lose the ability to stack? That improves the FFers DEF, but leaves teammates in the same boat as they are now. It also might free the FFer to move around more in combat. Perhaps the status resist would still apply to teammates, but not the DEF?
If that's too much, lower them both to 10%. Or whatever.
I still think giving more DEF to the Defender is a good idea, but I'm spending too much time thinking about how to work with the powers that probably don't need much (if any) work.
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My own personal, preference, though, would be to get more damage. I think that I wouldn't need the protection if I had more of a balance towards offense, instead of defense. More defense WOULD help Defenders survive better in groups, though, which would likely help them more in the long run.
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Believe me, I'd love to get more damage. My thought (as stated earlier in the thread) was to give FF a large DEF debuff in a power, with the idea (in my admittedly small brain) that the ability to hit things more consistently would constitute an indirect damage buff. Not sure if that would work.
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The FF's damage is already lower than any other Defender in the game, and I can tell you from experience, his defense is anything but tank mage level. And the defense does not have to be the full 15% of an Insulation or Deflection Shield, it can be 10%, as I suggested, or 7.5%, as long as it reduces the gap between the protection of Dispersion alone, and the protection of Dispersion plus the bubbles.
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Going to have to be a bit of a wet blanket here, but currently a FF fender has access to the following defense powers:
Dispersion - 10% base
Manuevers - 3.5% base
Weave - 5% base
Combat jumping/hover - 2.5% base (hover might be 1.87, but its close enough).
If you took tough to get weave, you have access to the steadfast +3% defense IO as well.
Assuming 56% enhancement in Dispersion, manuveres and weave, and just base CJ your looking at 31.36% defense to all, 34.36% with the steadfast unique.
You know what happens when you add another 7.5-10% defense elsewhere in the set?
Soft capped defense with very little (if any) IO investments.
Dont forget that a defender would also have access to an epic resist shield, giving you a total of 66% smash/lethal resists on top of that.
Oh yeah, you would still have a pool pick open to take aid other/aid self.*
Just saying... I dont think more defense is a viable option from a balance perspective.
*Edit - without stamina, which on second thought is probably not an option with this many toggles running. Despite that, you can still get a self heal if you take dark blast, along with all the other stuff DB brings to the table.
For those interested, I tried out the new Repulsion Bomb on test. It's damage is identical to unslotted Terrify damage. Damage type is smashing. It cannot be slotted for damage.
Recharge and casting time seemed unchanged.
That combo is just seriously sick, and is a perversion of gameplay mechanics. - Excelsio
The Infernal Challenge
Building a WarTroller
Troller Damage
<QR>
I skimmed through most of the thread and just wanted to respond to some of the suggestions from the consolidated list.
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Deflection and Insulation Shields:
Switch the Defense percentages between Dispersion Bubble and Insulation and Deflection Shields.
Make them into PBAoE auras.
Add +Recovery to Insulation Shield.
Prevent stacking from same characters on zoning and make them last 15 minutes or until zoning.
Speed up the cast times.
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I don't care for #2 because I hate crowds.
Making the shields last 15 minutes would probably cause me to weep with joy. If that trend spread to other defender powersets I would probably make one of every single defender set and enjoy the heck out of them.
The last suggestion is ok, but wouldn't it be better if they were just a PBAoE cast buff? You could do the whole team, and all those pets, in one convenient shot. I'd love it.
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Dispersion Bubble:
Replace the sleep weakness with an immobilize weakness.
Add +Recovery to all allies.
Increase the size to the same as Force Bubble, or switch their sizes.
Add some defense debuff resistance.
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I like the idea of increasing dispersions size. That would make it a lot easier to manage.
I also like the idea of adding debuff resistances, but I wouldn't mind if it were more than just defense too. That might even be a nice little niche if you could ward off a good chunk of debuffs. Although, doesn't dispersion already offer endurance drain resistance?
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Detention Field:
Change to a timed toggle power so that it can be turned off at will but is forced off if left on too long.
Change the graphic to where its super super obvious that thing has been detained.
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This suggestion is awesome because then you could make regular use of the power in a group. I'd really enjoy that added functionality for my bubbler. And, I think it goes without saying that the graphic needs to make it obvious a mob is detained.
I think a reflection field might be a fun thing for a FF. Some kind of area affect field that made it so that ranged attacks had a chance of being reflected back at the attacker or his allies. That would be a nice defensive maneuver with a little offensive fun.
Sentinel
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For those interested, I tried out the new Repulsion Bomb on test. It's damage is identical to unslotted Terrify damage. Damage type is smashing. It cannot be slotted for damage.
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You're late to the party -- it can be slotted with dual aspect enhancements to bump up the damage. The damage is also buffable by powers like Aim.
Edit: Link.
I keep a copy of my bubbler on Test with all FF powers heavily slotted, just in case of changes.
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None of these options are available to the Defender. But I still stand by my original statement -- you can be an FF Defender, take only the big 4 powers, and still give better protection to your team than any other Defender, hands down. There is no NEED for the other 5 powers. And for many people who use the FF set, either as a Defender or something else, that's enough for them.
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QFT. The problem is that this makes FF a good secondary to cherrypick from. What Defenders need is more utility in the other powers - tough perhaps not more raw power.
Not an easy thing to do.
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For those interested, I tried out the new Repulsion Bomb on test. It's damage is identical to unslotted Terrify damage. Damage type is smashing. It cannot be slotted for damage.
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You're late to the party -- it can be slotted with dual aspect enhancements to bump up the damage. The damage is also buffable by powers like Aim.
Edit: Link.
I keep a copy of my bubbler on Test with all FF powers heavily slotted, just in case of changes.
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Thanks Burning Chick. Being able to slot it with dual aspect enhancements for extra damage is great news.
That combo is just seriously sick, and is a perversion of gameplay mechanics. - Excelsio
The Infernal Challenge
Building a WarTroller
Troller Damage
Wow, Mystic_Poobah, I can honestly say I haven't heard those views of Defenders before. I usually regard them as the being very potent, especially when you get more than a couple per team--not that Dark/Sonic, for example, is going to have much trouble solo (against anything... including AV's or even GM's at high levels). We have better duff/debuff than anything else, both in our primaries and in our secondaries, and we have a wide range of versatile power sets that let us go for just about any purpose--tanking, controlling, blasting, whatever.
Then again, my opinion could be slanted just because I dislike Corrupters and post-nerf Controllers, and your logic was based somewhat on a comparison to them.
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Wow, Mystic_Poobah, I can honestly say I haven't heard those views of Defenders before. I usually regard them as the being very potent, especially when you get more than a couple per team--not that Dark/Sonic, for example, is going to have much trouble solo (against anything... including AV's or even GM's at high levels). We have better duff/debuff than anything else, both in our primaries and in our secondaries, and we have a wide range of versatile power sets that let us go for just about any purpose--tanking, controlling, blasting, whatever.
Then again, my opinion could be slanted just because I dislike Corrupters and post-nerf Controllers, and your logic was based somewhat on a comparison to them.
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Well I for one would sure love to see a Dark/Sonic Defender solo an AV or GM without having to use an entire tray of blue skittles...
Defenders are VERY potent, but only in numbers. Defenders absolutely shine when they are Defending on a team. But they can't solo for [censored]. Dark/Sonic or Empathy/Sonic I think are the two strongest combinations, but by and large Defenders can't solo worth a damn. They simply do not have enough endurance to run buffs/debuffs AND do sustainable damage. And as I've stated this before numerous times, it's mostly due to AT modifiers that have not changed in 4 years, even though 9 out of 11 ATs have gotten inherent abilities that buff damage. Defenders do significantly less damage than they should because of this. Factor in that Vigilance is completely borked and does nothing for you solo and you've got another huge nail in the coffin.
But as long as you like teaming Defenders are a blast. But it seems every time I try to play mine I quickly feel like a (de)buff bot, who can't even manage to take out a spider on the wall, let alone an actual critter. And that, frankly, infuriates me, because Defenders were once very enjoyable to play, both in teams and solo. But this is no longer true. At least not for me.
An idea that was presented on the Controller forum regarding Knockback may be useful here.
The idea was to have Knockback enhancements also add the equivlent of 1/2 a damage enhancement to the power.
That combo is just seriously sick, and is a perversion of gameplay mechanics. - Excelsio
The Infernal Challenge
Building a WarTroller
Troller Damage
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They are? I just need more sleep then. :P Didn't see anything about the Shields suggestions so wasn't sure. (the defender able to use them on themselves, but PFF cancelling it) Thanks.
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Hi willnova. As PK said, that most likely wouldn't happen, especially since it's impossible using this engine to target yourself. But a suggestion has been entered to swap the +DEF values on Dispersion and the targetted bubbles, resulting in more DEF for the Defender, maintaining the value provided to a teammate within Dispersion, but lowering the value provided to a teammate outside of Dispersion. I think that suggestion is one you might agree with.
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It *should* be, if it were the case. I'm not any more privy to the numbers than anyone else, but I'm betting it's just not the case statistically. I think it's more of an issue where there may be some that simply don't play or have abandoned the set, there are more that simply accept it as is, taking the big 4 and ignoring the rest in favor of secondary or pool powers, and make the best of it, either in an active or barely-active playstyle.
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I disagree. I think the problem is that FF is shared by three AT's, two of which are the most powerful in the game, and the last (FF Defenders spcifically) one of the least powerful in the game. That makes for a balancing headache, and the devs have shown no desire to treat the FF Defender powerset as separate from Controllers and MM's. Quite frankly I think that FF Defenders will never see improvement, because the developers think FF works great for Controllers and MM's.
FF has always been a better secondary than a primary. It's no coincidence that it didn't make it into CoV as a primary; they've learned that the current set isn't appropriate as a primary.