[ QUOTE ]
I bet the dev realize the issue already, so the work is not wasted. Concerning whether and when the set will be fixed, it's not really something we can control.
Maybe, one thing you can do is to keep a record of the ice melee issue/suggestion list, and various arguments with those headache-inducing maths. When the forum purges old threads, you can re-post it such that the information will not be gone. And I'm sure that suggestions to buff ice melee will come up occassionally, it will be nice if we can always point people to your issue/suggestion list.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think the Tanker fans have been doing everything you suggested for a LOOOOOOOONG time.
The dev knew about it but they still have not got to it. I don't like to trash the dev as they seem to know what they are doing....
To give you an example, they recently buffed Bitter Freeze Ray in Ice Blast set (which I believe is the top 3 most used range set of ALL). I wonder which genius had BFR on the "to do" list and actually persuaded the team to fix it first? 
The dev's priority is very weird. The next "big project" is to fix Blasters which I don't agree but oh well...
They won't fix Ice Melee. Don't bother. The dev have shown tendency of not fixing something that requires too much work. Stalker's placate bug is well known and the dev has pretty much given it up. Ice Melee's fix may require more changes or the dev simply doesn't care.
Enjoy Ice Melee as a gimped set. It's the gimp's choice.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Thank you everyone! I can't say how much all this means to me. Reading it over though, it does seem like a very very emo and egotisticle mini-rant. >_< Surprised I didn't call meh out on that. Really shows how polite and comunity orientated the Tankers are. You all are really a great bunch of people.
[ QUOTE ]
You've done more than any of us on this matter, and that is to truly be applauded. You should not feel bad about this. These forums are not life, and should not be treated as such. Things get in the way of posting. It happens to all of us. Don't beat yourself up for things that happen here when you're out in the real world.
[/ QUOTE ]
The sad thing is, and one of the prime contributing factors on my burnout, is that for me these Forums and the battle for Ice Melee did become my life. I'm obsessive-compulsive and I've been obsessed with getting Ice Melee it's changes. For a year now these forums have been a huge part of my life. I can honsetly say with a strait face that I have not a single friend beyond CoH. Not one. It's long and complicated the reasons why. SUffice it to say I have a social anxiety disorder that I've only recently begun seeking help to cope with.
Anywho, enough of the Emo Otter. Thanks one and all for the kind words and support. And who knows, maybe changes are on the way, we just need that little bit more pasience.
=. .=
Well, you're fighting the good fight. I've read the 3 threads on improving Ice Melee. I suspect the lack of contribution is b/c not many play the set. Like Juzam, I don't have my own conclusions b/c my Ice/Ice and Invul/Ice are just babies. Nor do I want to support or condemn a position based on ignorance.
I always think of what was done with "Healing Flames" when I think that nothing will be done with tankers. I dont think that the devs are completely done with tankers...it's just that other matters are a higher priority. Take a break if need be, but keep on tankin'.
I do miss your double otter thumbs up...they've always made me smile. 
[ QUOTE ]
I always think of what was done with "Healing Flames" when I think that nothing will be done with tankers. I dont think that the devs are completely done with tankers...it's just that other matters are a higher priority. Take a break if need be, but keep on tankin'.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, my problem with this is that the Devs seem to me to be taking a very piecemeal look at tankers. What we need is a good, thorough look (and I know I just heard Tundara, gWrath, and Golden_Ace groan) at the AT as a whole. Why do I think this? Because they seem to do one thing to one set, then disappear for a few months, then come back and fix one more thing, then disappear again.
So by that process, it could take a long time to get changes to all the sets I think need them. I think that if the Devs could take a look at the balance between all of the sets, and figure out what they want from the tanker AT, it would be a lot better.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
[ QUOTE ]
Well, my problem with this is that the Devs seem to me to be taking a very piecemeal look at tankers. What we need is a good, thorough look (and I know I just heard Tundara, gWrath, and Golden_Ace groan) at the AT as a whole. Why do I think this? Because they seem to do one thing to one set, then disappear for a few months, then come back and fix one more thing, then disappear again.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think that this (tweaks versus a thorough look) is how they will proceed with tankers from now on, frankly (unless one of their metrics shows that there is a 'serious' problem). I'm hoping that with I5, I6 and I9 done, they will have the time to focus on the problem sets (while creating new ones). _Castle_ revamping Defiance seemed to indicate that.
I'm not sure where fixing Ice Melee fits in all this though. Even _Castle_ indicated that the set has problems (though not the most pressing).
Based on what I've read, the reason why Ice Melee was originally designed (for control) has either been diminished or usurped (by Stone for example). I see, overall, the set needs to be improved, though I am still unclear about the specific details.
[ QUOTE ]
Based on what I've read, the reason why Ice Melee was originally designed (for control) has either been diminished or usurped (by Stone for example). I see, overall, the set needs to be improved, though I am still unclear about the specific details.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's a long story (as can be evidenced by the three long threads on the topic) but it boils down to this:
Many /Ice tankers do not feel that they have enough control in their secondary to balance out the lack of damage the set offers. When compared with sets like Stone Melee, SM gets a similar level of control, with higher endurance costs and much higher damage. Ice melee has been relegated to the control 'efficient' set, not necessarily the control set. When you look at the sets for control, you see that a large portion of Ice/'s control comes from Frozen Aura, a power that many feel is unusable because of the nature of the effect.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
I don't have a complaint about my Fire/Ice Tank atm - he's lvl 25 now.
On the other hand, I've got Frozen Fists and Ice Patch from /Ice and have no great need for any more, which is obviously a problem. I should want much more of a secondary power set.
I'll probably get the hold to be able to stack with an Epic Hold, but that's it.
@JohnP - Victory
On a similar topic, what happened to the recent tank vs scrapper testing that was firing up this forum.
-A
Can you come fight for Invuln tanks then? We need you 
View the story of W.A.R.F.A.C.E. and Septimus Bane here: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6785073/1/Meus_Profiteor#
my email chrismfears99@yahoo.com
[ QUOTE ]
Many /Ice tankers do not feel that they have enough control in their secondary to balance out the lack of damage the set offers. When compared with sets like Stone Melee, SM gets a similar level of control, with higher endurance costs and much higher damage. Ice melee has been relegated to the control 'efficient' set, not necessarily the control set. When you look at the sets for control, you see that a large portion of Ice/'s control comes from Frozen Aura, a power that many feel is unusable because of the nature of the effect.
[/ QUOTE ]
That surprises me. I thought the core control would be Ice Patch.
While I dont have a high level */Ice Tanker I do have a lvl 40 Elec/Ice blaster. (putting Elec aside) I like Ice Manipulation on my blaster and I'm thoroughly impressed with Ice Patch (and Freezing Touch).
I understand the rationale for change in the 3 posts, and agree with the general conclusion (Ice Melee should be fixed). When I read the threads, I compared Ice Melee to my fave set, Fiery Melee, which I view as its antithesis.
Most everyone (including me) believes that FM is the King of AOE for tankers. In exchange, it gives up *all* of its control. Personally, it's a tradeoff I am happy to make.
Ice Melee, OTOH, *should* have the most control of all the sets. But in exchange, it gives up damage (not completely but significantly).
In other words, Ice Melee should be as strong in control as Fiery Melee is with AOEs (to the extent a tanker can without intruding on controller turf I guess). At least that's how I saw things.
So, if it doesn't have this much control, then something else (like dmg) should be buffed.
That makes sense to me.
[ QUOTE ]
Thank you everyone! I can't say how much all this means to me. Reading it over though, it does seem like a very very emo and egotisticle mini-rant. >_< Surprised I didn't call meh out on that. Really shows how polite and comunity orientated the Tankers are. You all are really a great bunch of people.
[ QUOTE ]
You've done more than any of us on this matter, and that is to truly be applauded. You should not feel bad about this. These forums are not life, and should not be treated as such. Things get in the way of posting. It happens to all of us. Don't beat yourself up for things that happen here when you're out in the real world.
[/ QUOTE ]
The sad thing is, and one of the prime contributing factors on my burnout, is that for me these Forums and the battle for Ice Melee did become my life. I'm obsessive-compulsive and I've been obsessed with getting Ice Melee it's changes. For a year now these forums have been a huge part of my life. I can honsetly say with a strait face that I have not a single friend beyond CoH. Not one. It's long and complicated the reasons why. SUffice it to say I have a social anxiety disorder that I've only recently begun seeking help to cope with.
Anywho, enough of the Emo Otter. Thanks one and all for the kind words and support. And who knows, maybe changes are on the way, we just need that little bit more pasience.
=. .=
[/ QUOTE ]
Polite???
HOW DARE YOU CALL ME POLITE!
Bite my Glorious Golden [censored]!
Quick someone get me a dictionary! 
P...
PO
POL
POLICE
POLICY
POLISH
POLITE
adjective: showing regard for others in manners, speech, behavior, etc.
adjective: not rude; marked by satisfactory (or especially minimal) adherence to social usages and sufficient but not noteworthy consideration for others
adjective: marked by refinement in taste and manners.
Oh Nevermind then. 
[color=gold][b][size=5]♪ Sometimes you feel like a Tank, Sometimes you don't! ♪[/size][/color][/b]
[url=http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=114726][color=black][b][size=5]Moon [color=red]Hazard [color=black]Zone![/size][/color][/color][/color][/b][/url]
Tundara, to use one of the 7 habits for effective people:
Some things are of concern and some things are within your influence.
Things you can't influence directly - should be of a lesser importance to you. You can share your Concerns here and with the Devs. Concerns are items you personally can't influence.
You can Influence:
That you have fun with /ice melee.
That you learn how the powers are most effectively used.
That you share the uses of these powers with us.
That you suggest IO slotting and various strategies.
In short you can HAVE FUN and still show both influence of your surroundings and of our community.
I don't think it's not that all of your (and everyone elses) hard work wasn't appreciated.
I just think, that some of us don't have the numbers to put forth the great ideas, and those of you who have done the hard work, have probably done everything that can be done.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
[ QUOTE ]
I don't have a complaint about my Fire/Ice Tank atm - he's lvl 25 now.
On the other hand, I've got Frozen Fists and Ice Patch from /Ice and have no great need for any more, which is obviously a problem. I should want much more of a secondary power set.
I'll probably get the hold to be able to stack with an Epic Hold, but that's it.
[/ QUOTE ]
I sort of echo this, ice melee works fine on a fire/ice, but I could imagine it being not much fun with any other primary, the damage just isn't there. The issue I suspect is a bit like the controller one with fire/kin where neither set is broken, but the combination is better than intended, fixing ice melee while not making it too good while combined with the fire primary is a difficult balancing act.
Abu ben Adchem 44 fire/ice Victory and 14 50s
It's true. This game is NOT rocket surgery. - BillZBubba
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't have a complaint about my Fire/Ice Tank atm - he's lvl 25 now.
On the other hand, I've got Frozen Fists and Ice Patch from /Ice and have no great need for any more, which is obviously a problem. I should want much more of a secondary power set.
I'll probably get the hold to be able to stack with an Epic Hold, but that's it.
[/ QUOTE ]
I sort of echo this, ice melee works fine on a fire/ice, but I could imagine it being not much fun with any other primary, the damage just isn't there. The issue I suspect is a bit like the controller one with fire/kin where neither set is broken, but the combination is better than intended, fixing ice melee while not making it too good while combined with the fire primary is a difficult balancing act.
Abu ben Adchem 44 fire/ice Victory and 14 50s
[/ QUOTE ]
fire/ice is a one trick pony... and it sucks.
mine lvl'd to 50 in I4 during the heyday, but it is crap now imo. I would much rather it be ice/fire.
even with burn and blaing aua doing 80% or so of the damage (and probably more) it still solo's horribly slow.
herd, ice patch, burn, repeat... chase down runners, repeat... sometimes a boss will actually be defeated
ice melee is total crap.
YMMV---IMOIce Ember
But, but, ... I love my pony!!!
50 Tanks: Invul/ss, Fire/ice/fire, Ice/em, Stone/fire
WP/Stone, dark/dark, shld/mace
50 Other: WS, SS/dark/sc brute, BS/Regen/WM scrpr, fire/fire/force blaster, rad/kin corr, mind/rad ctrl, ill/storm cntrl
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I always think of what was done with "Healing Flames" when I think that nothing will be done with tankers. I dont think that the devs are completely done with tankers...it's just that other matters are a higher priority. Take a break if need be, but keep on tankin'.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, my problem with this is that the Devs seem to me to be taking a very piecemeal look at tankers. What we need is a good, thorough look (and I know I just heard Tundara, gWrath, and Golden_Ace groan) at the AT as a whole. Why do I think this? Because they seem to do one thing to one set, then disappear for a few months, then come back and fix one more thing, then disappear again.
So by that process, it could take a long time to get changes to all the sets I think need them. I think that if the Devs could take a look at the balance between all of the sets, and figure out what they want from the tanker AT, it would be a lot better.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, _Castle_ plays a Fire/Fire tanker and they finally get a buff. _Castle_ plays a Blaster, they finally get defience looked at. So maybe, if the devs played the game or AT's/Powersets in question then maybe they would see what people are talking about. Boosting a character to level 22 , 35, and 50 doesn't give you much of a feel for how the character plays from 1-50. I found this out when the test server had level bump to test RV.
I mean come on, Chain Induction for Elec Melee is still not fixed after it has been said that it needs to be fixed. I mean how damn hard is it to boost the recharge, or acc, or damage or a combo of the three attributes to a power? Tired of the FOTM PvP builds? Yeah, I am too. How about fixing the other sets so that they can be competitive as well.
I don't play /ICE tanks, but I have been around long enough to know the ABSOLUTE frustration you guys feel. I would bet, that out of the 120,000+ number of players playing CoX, 90% of them are veterans with at least Four-Five issue behind them. They know whats gimped and what isn't. This then cuts into the Alts that people really take seriously.
Devs please, TAKE SOME TIME AND FIX POWER SETS.
Edited: To make ICE/ to (/ICE)
TA
Been Playing since Issue 3(Account Back Online)
Champion Server - For Life
Titanium Alloy- (50 SS/ELC/Mu brute)
Rendorul- (50 Em/ELC/Ghost brute)
Ventor The Sacred -(45 EM/EA/Ghost brute)
Platonic Shift -(43 EM/Stone/Mu brute)
Wish Master - (32 DM/Fire brute)
DexRon -(50 Fire/SS Tank)
[ QUOTE ]
I don't play ICE/ tanks, but I have been around long enough to know the ABSOLUTE frustration you guys feel. I would bet, that out of the 120,000+ number of players playing CoX, 90% of them are veterans with at least Four-Five issue behind them. They know whats gimped and what isn't. This then cuts into the Alts that people really take seriously.
[/ QUOTE ]
I would argue your numbers are way off. It's not even 90% of the forums users who are familiar with every nuance and mathematical value behind the various powersets, much less being in complete agreement about what's 'gimped' or not. And by last account, the forum users represent about 10% of the entire playerbase...the 10% most likely to be hardcore enough to actually know the numbers, much less have done any sort of work to quantify how well sets are balanced with each other.
I would wager the number of players in game who are actually aware of Ice Melee's actual numbers and are convinced they're somehow gimpy is actually very few and far between. Most people who play an */Ice tank are probably quite happily zipping along doing their thing and will continue to do so until someone 'in the know' graciously informs them of how 'gimped' they are so they can be bitter as well.
Formerly "Back Alley Brawler"
Thanks, I edited it.
Edited: Been playing brutes to much, lol. Always thinking offense first.
TA
Been Playing since Issue 3(Account Back Online)
Champion Server - For Life
Titanium Alloy- (50 SS/ELC/Mu brute)
Rendorul- (50 Em/ELC/Ghost brute)
Ventor The Sacred -(45 EM/EA/Ghost brute)
Platonic Shift -(43 EM/Stone/Mu brute)
Wish Master - (32 DM/Fire brute)
DexRon -(50 Fire/SS Tank)
[ QUOTE ]
*sigh*
I go away for just a few days, and look what I come back too. The thread's buried several pages down. No talking, discussion, bouncing ideas, just the silence of defeat.
You know what, I think this is it. I'm done with Ice Melee. It seems like without a constant whip the other Ice Melee tanks are content to sit silent. I'm very disappointed. For months I tried to spur discussion, keep thread after thread going. I even did something I knew so little about and am terrible at; Did the Math and Crunched Numbers. Yes, as often as not I goofed, didn't carry a decimal point, and got it wrong. But hey, I friggin dropped out of remedial math for a reason. Still, I pushed onwards even when I was giving myself migraines trying to figure out how to balance the set. At least back then I felt like it was worth it and I wasn't alone.
[/ QUOTE ]
I hear ya, you can only for so long keep marching to a beat untill the drum goes silent. Momentum is everything. Yes we lost quite a bit of steam and honestly, I have been staring at so many spreadsheets that it all looks the same. Just a blur of the senses. Honestly I have done everything I can do with respects to Ice Melee. I began to feel like I was repeating myself. Then work exploded and other things and here we are. We are frustrated and honestly feel like we have not been heard. There comes a point were you start to think is anyone paying attention or are we just telling each other over and over again how bad everything is for our health. I applaud your persistence on this issue and understand and respect your opinions in the Ice Melee fight. maybe one day our work will have some effect some were.
[ QUOTE ]
So, I just want to thank a few people quickly. Molar_Mauler, Ice_Ember, Ice_Knight, Wonderslug, and of course, Aett_Thorn. Thank you all so much for your support, ideas, and time over all three threads. I wish I could givce all of you a basket of cookies for the help you were back in the golden age of 'Fixing Ice Melee'.
[/ QUOTE ] I like cookies, however you rallied us many times and kept us in the spirit. I thank you for that.
[ QUOTE ]
As for Redlynne, well, I feel really sorry for her. She has put in a ton of effort on her latest ideas and they have been by and large ignored by everyone, myself included. I could claim burn out, but that's no excuse. The least I should have done was really read them and said if I felt she was still on the right track, or if there were grevous flaws. She deserved a lot better then to be largely ignored.
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree and I am sorry I have not taken a closer look, honestly I have not had as much time on the forums as I would like.
[ QUOTE ]
To every other Ice Melee tanker out there who has been here for most of Fixing Ice Melee One and Two; :disappointment:
No one person or Otter can do this alone. For a long while I felt I was alone during the final few pages of 2.0 and now when Redlynne needed support I abandoned her. For this, I am deeply sorry. I feel like I've failed not just her, but the entire community. It's only now thinking back over this summer and spring, at all the Fixing Ice Melee threads that it seems like I was in a way the leader the community rallied around. No, I was far from alone and had excellent help (All the people I thanked above). Still, even though my math was weak and I didn't do some of the exhaustive number gathering and crunching, it feels like I was the Mother for the movement. Encourging, pitching in, propping things up when they faltered. Maybe I'm wrong and am just over blowing my role in the threads over the last few months. Maybe.
I guess in a way this is a good-bye thread, though it isn't that really. Afterall, I do still play. I will continue to come to the Tanker forum. But I just can't do -THIS- anymore. I can't pour my heart and soul into the fight and feel like I am alone. That is exactly how I felt at the end of 2.0. So, not good-bye, rather throwing in the towel on the fight.
I am really sorry I couldn't get you all the changes the set needs.
I am sorry.
-Tundara
=. .=
[/ QUOTE ]
You have nothign to apoligise for, you did your best and I think for the most part we all did. Unfortunantly, we have no resolve at the moment, taking a break and revisiting this would be a good idea. I wish you the best and I am sure we will cross paths again.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't play ICE/ tanks, but I have been around long enough to know the ABSOLUTE frustration you guys feel. I would bet, that out of the 120,000+ number of players playing CoX, 90% of them are veterans with at least Four-Five issue behind them. They know whats gimped and what isn't. This then cuts into the Alts that people really take seriously.
[/ QUOTE ]
I would argue your numbers are way off. It's not even 90% of the forums users who are familiar with every nuance and mathematical value behind the various powersets, much less being in complete agreement about what's 'gimped' or not.
I would wager the number of players in game who are actually aware of Ice Melee's actual numbers and are convinced they're somehow gimpy is actually very few and far between. Most people who play an */Ice tank are probably quite happily zipping along doing their thing and will continue to do so until someone 'in the know' graciously informs them of how 'gimped' they are so they can be bitter as well.
[/ QUOTE ]
I can count the number of times I have seen /ICE as a secondary on a tanker with two hands, across three servers. I am sure there are many more then that, but not like SS, Fire, EM, SM. If the majority of tankers were /ICE, /AXE, and /Mace would we still be having this discussion?
They may feel the set is just fine until they see someone else playing a different secondary, doing twice as much damage and surving or tanking just as well as they are. Once they roll another secondary they come to find out why. It would behove the devs to bring more balance across all AT's and their powersets to maxiumize retention. If I play a character for 22+ levels and still feel like its under par why would I continue with said powerset?
But, you are right, that 90% was a complete guess on my part. I still think my point stands though.
TA
Been Playing since Issue 3(Account Back Online)
Champion Server - For Life
Titanium Alloy- (50 SS/ELC/Mu brute)
Rendorul- (50 Em/ELC/Ghost brute)
Ventor The Sacred -(45 EM/EA/Ghost brute)
Platonic Shift -(43 EM/Stone/Mu brute)
Wish Master - (32 DM/Fire brute)
DexRon -(50 Fire/SS Tank)
Tundra,
You have, with the help of others, made a very well thought out fix for /ice. Perhaps too well thought out. What has been presented is a Mt. Everest of information. You have covered all of the/ice set.
Perhaps all of this should be broken down into bite sized chunks. What is in the most need of repair. What is ok for now but should be fixed at a later date. If as Att has said the devs. are just patching a bit here and there, give them somthing they can go in a patch fix.
What should get fixed now and what can wait can be a new area of discution. Get people talking again. Get attension back on the topic, and give poeple somthing new to talk about.
F1
[ QUOTE ]
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[ QUOTE ]
I don't have a complaint about my Fire/Ice Tank atm - he's lvl 25 now.
On the other hand, I've got Frozen Fists and Ice Patch from /Ice and have no great need for any more, which is obviously a problem. I should want much more of a secondary power set.
I'll probably get the hold to be able to stack with an Epic Hold, but that's it.
[/ QUOTE ]
I sort of echo this, ice melee works fine on a fire/ice, but I could imagine it being not much fun with any other primary, the damage just isn't there. The issue I suspect is a bit like the controller one with fire/kin where neither set is broken, but the combination is better than intended, fixing ice melee while not making it too good while combined with the fire primary is a difficult balancing act.
Abu ben Adchem 44 fire/ice Victory and 14 50s
[/ QUOTE ]
fire/ice is a one trick pony... and it sucks.
mine lvl'd to 50 in I4 during the heyday, but it is crap now imo. I would much rather it be ice/fire.
even with burn and blaing aua doing 80% or so of the damage (and probably more) it still solo's horribly slow.
herd, ice patch, burn, repeat... chase down runners, repeat... sometimes a boss will actually be defeated
ice melee is total crap.
[/ QUOTE ]
I really don't see the problem with bosses, I kill them relatively quickly (having 2 holds so they will always take the whole burn hit helps). I agree ice/fire is better having played one to 50 (and ice/stone a lot better but that's another story). I have an issue with some EBs that don't take the KD and won't stay in the burn patch, although an empath and I duod Nemesis, the clockwork king and HroD'tohz pretty brutally fast yesterday. My fire/ice solos faster than some of my tanks and slower than others but I wouldn't say it's flat out gimped. If I was trying to solo an invul/ice then I would probably say that ice melee is teh suxx0rz.
It's true. This game is NOT rocket surgery. - BillZBubba
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I always think of what was done with "Healing Flames" when I think that nothing will be done with tankers. I dont think that the devs are completely done with tankers...it's just that other matters are a higher priority. Take a break if need be, but keep on tankin'.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, my problem with this is that the Devs seem to me to be taking a very piecemeal look at tankers. What we need is a good, thorough look (and I know I just heard Tundara, gWrath, and Golden_Ace groan) at the AT as a whole. Why do I think this? Because they seem to do one thing to one set, then disappear for a few months, then come back and fix one more thing, then disappear again.
So by that process, it could take a long time to get changes to all the sets I think need them. I think that if the Devs could take a look at the balance between all of the sets, and figure out what they want from the tanker AT, it would be a lot better.
[/ QUOTE ]
They are looking at Blasters now.... the top 3 most used hero AT. That's their priority.
I think somebody nailed it right. The dev only want to fix something that is popular. Ice Melee is not a popular set (MAYBE IT'S BECAUSE THE SET IS WEAK??!!!!) so it's not on the priority "to do" list.
Just look at my Bitter Freeze Ray example. Who would have thought the dev wants to improve Ice Blast set first?!!! The reason given is that sets like Blaster's /Fire will have more control powers. How about improving /fire set itself?!! What if the Blaster's secondary is not /fire?
This goes to show you what their priorities are. It's clear they only want to fix something that is popular.
(I honestly believe the only reason Dominator got two buffs is that Positron is a fan of Dominator)
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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Maybe we need a devil's advocate, or even just a troll that argues with us. Because right now, it's pretty much all of us saying "yup, it needs a'changin'."
[/ QUOTE ]
One of my current new projects is an Ice/Ice tanker. And I have never been accused of being shy...
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Shy, no. Balanced against other secondaries, especially in the high levels, no.
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It will be a bit before I can come to my own conclusions. I don't like to offer opinion until I have some experience to argue from.
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Juzam, my Ice/Ice is 39 and yes, Ice Melee could definitely use some work.
"I never said thank you." - Lt. Gordon
"And you'll never have to." - the Dark Knight