Art etiquette: May I criticize?

This is me asking for etiquette exclusive to the art community:

Is unsolicited advice acceptable?

I ask because I’ve been looking through the fantastic art of this community recently, and I saw one work that bordered on masterpiece, except for one thing that irks me. I look at it and think “If only that were different, I’d worship this work…”

The person who is displaying the piece did not ask for advice. They simply displayed the work and said “Ta da!” Should I just, then, say how much I liked it and not justify my lack of a perfect score? How do you all feel on the subject?

Personally, I'd PM the artist and ask if they wanted critique, and if so, do it through PM. Unless the topic specifically asks for feedback, I think its bad form for someone to critique what is being presented as a finished piece. WIPs, eh, I dunno, I would think comment/critique would be okay, but again, safer to PM the artist.

It's honestly very very hard to say.

Some artists always want a critique as they feel it helps them get better.

Others are OK with a critique; but would prefer not to get one unless they ask.

And some just really hate it unless asked for because they feel it steals some of the fun of presenting their new work.

I'm personally in the first category, but obviously, there's no 'right or wrong' to it; its just a matter of preference.

I agree the best way is probably to PM them if you aren't totally sure of what the person wants.

For myself - critique away; as long as people aren't rude, I appreciate anything I can get <.<b (I only mention that in case anyone is ever hesitating)

Id say it varies...

Your comission:
Critique it in private with the person doing it but remember that you chose them for their particular artstyle, just cause they have the expertise to draw it in another way, unless they are practicing other art styles they will probably stay in their comfort zone.

Someone elses commish:
Id say bite your tongue, remember that even if the artist does something, it couldbe at another persons request, therefore critiquing it could just frustrate the artist as they may not have done it by thier own choice. Now if it is in line with their other art... PM is the way to go about it.

Gift Art
If someone does gift art for you... Id say bite your tongue... honestly they are doing something out of the kindness of their own heart, even if you dont particularly like the piece know they spend thier time on it without expecting complensation except for your thanks. Now if it is someone elses gift art, id say PM them about it, as it was done usually byu thier own choice of style so it can properly be critiqued.

In General:
I have never really commished any piece but i have recieved one or two gift arts, id say if your going to critique something, be very polite and do it privately unless it is an open request for critiques

I think it's really a case-by-case thing.

The first thing I do, if I am critiquing a piece, is explain that it's merely the opinion of someone in the peanut gallery (ie, me). Nobody has the special right to tell an artist what they "must" do with their style (unless, of course, the artist is giving someone that right), but so far as I'm concerned "suggestions" tend to be perfectly reasonable - especially if the artist is looking for them.

In the case of the "Ta da!", it's harder to make a call, as you have very little to go by. In a case like that, I'd suggest...

-Look around any posts they've made in the past, especially if you can find a critique in there. Their response to past criticism is usually a pretty good indicator of how they'll take it now.
-Start with the positives. If your first reaction is "Dude, this thing is amazing!" and only after a couple of moments do you notice that the perspective is skewed, then start with the "Amazing!" commentary. It's harder if your first reaction is "Um...what? This thing is hideous!" If that happens, and you feel absolutely moved to comment, I strongly suggest that you seek some of the positive qualities in the work in question. The hideousness may even be the intent of the artist, after all.

And, of course, the ultimate rule is that all criticism should be constructive in nature. "Stop now and never draw again" isn't the sort of advice that should be passed out around here. The fact is, anybody who has the desire to learn to draw can come into a style of their own. On the other hand, "You seem to have a very dark sort of style. How about giving a vampire/demon themed piece a try?" would be far more constructive. They may not be the "perfect" artist even within their own lifetimes, nor may they ever sell a single commission - but ultimately art serves it's purpose if the artist can evoke their desired response out of even a single person.

I will say this, however - commentary must be true to be even remotely valid.

In regards to receiving critiques when posting art

Im personally selective in my reading of Critiques(and likely in my spelling of Critiqes)

If your a fellow artist i'll glady read it , look it over and see if its something I can fix .

If your not a fellow artist (and by artist I mean anyone brave enough to post art they have done on a public forum ) then I honestly likely glaze over it don't bother to read it .

you might have the greatest artistic eye in the world but if you aren't intrested in sharing your work im likely not intrested in hearing your oponions

(As a Salient point I never do comissions so feed back from a customer is very unlikely :P )

In Regards to critiqueing others work I try to follow the very good advice of Syatfin (third post after the OP)

realizing that this isn't an art critiqueing board and for alot of folks this is their first time getting a commissioned piece (which is likely very special to them ) or working up the nerve to post their art in a friendly enviroment .

If someone asks for open critiques i'll likely give an oponion (not to be confused as fact) but still think your better off handling those sorts of things via pm's

Scarf

Liz (Syrus B) has cured me of pressing the shiny red button on unwanted members of the peanut gallery... so for now I try to take any and all critiques seriously as they come... though hopefully not often, as I hope I am getting better.

In your case, the Ta Da piece seems to be an aesthetic difference from the artist's original vision, so perhaps it's a matter of taste? I don't know unless you name names, and if it's me, then pm me quietly and allow me to focus the (sniper rifle of) attention elsewhere... just kidding.

I think all artists strive on praise, even if they don't want to admit it. Absolutely a critique helps them to push themselves, but if you only do work to get critiqued, then perhaps you're a glass is half empty kind of person...

I think in all such cases "politeness and etiquette" should be the norm. Simply walking into Mordor and telling Sauron to go jump off a volcanic cliff, well let's just say, he'd be in his rights to THWACK you thusly!

Telling an artist they could work on their anatomy, should try looking at reference, need to practice whatever can be done with a modicum of "good wording"... The internet is full of flame wars where cowardly puss like individuals can brandy about anything their miscreant hearts can think of, immune from polite society's norms, but it shouldn't be the case...

Really how hard is it to be well mannered?

*steps down from soap box*

LJ

For me, Advice and comments are always welcomed and desired. But each of us is different. *shrug*

=. .=

for the most part I agree with just about everything said before this. the good news though is that there are very very few schmucks here so the "you suck" type comments are thankfully few. indeed...it is a very helpful community and supportive community. probably one of the best I have seen in an online environment.

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Really how hard is it to be well mannered?

*steps down from soap box*

LJ

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...take a flying leap! ~

personally, in a democratic world you're allowed to give your opinion. Of course stay civilized and keep a tone of trying to help become better than they already were, not to crush the art through the ground. Here you can get away with calling the police bad names if you say it's your opinion, not when you say it as if you think it's a fact, lol... erhh, that was kinda off-topic.... If the artist doesn't want a constructive critisism, then he/she should disable comments or clearly let people know in the description. 'Nough said!

Personally I don't like critiques unless I specifically ask for them. Now there are times when I may have done something just wrong(I've accidentally made 2 left hands twice in the past). If the critique is put in a nice way I wont mind, if it's put like " EVERYTHINGS WRONG!!! That eye is quarter millimeter off, his hair is to pointy, there's to much green I hate green." I try to ignore it. Generally I think if you don't show your own work on a public forum or not an artist you don't have the right to criticize art.

Many artists take critiques very well...others do not. Best rule of thumb, if the artist has not solicited for advice and critiques...do not give them.

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If your a fellow artist i'll glady read it , look it over and see if its something I can fix .

If your not a fellow artist (and by artist I mean anyone brave enough to post art they have done on a public forum ) then I honestly likely glaze over it don't bother to read it .

you might have the greatest artistic eye in the world but if you aren't intrested in sharing your work im likely not intrested in hearing your oponions

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I agree with all of what scarf girl said in regards to reading only other artists' critiques. Usually the better the artist, the more serious I take that critique. Nothing personal you know, but I just believe that if someone is really good at what they do, they must have over come some hurdles and I want to learn from them.

Also usually I point out what I think is wrong with my image and what I need to improve on first (hey, I know my flaws) so its extremely ANNOYING when people just dont bother to read what I wrote and just repeat something I already know. This is akin to explaining say, creating a character/piece a certain way because it was intended and then telling people about your intention to have them not bother with your explanation and giving you suggestions on how to "fix" said piece. I think that if you're planning on taking the time to critique an image, take the time to read the description.

As for critiquing other's work? I really don't do so unless they ask for it. I get annoyed sometimes for unsolicited critiques so I wouldn't want to do the same to others.

If you're the artist and you're posting your art up on a relatively public BBS because you want attention, then you really have no choice but to take critiques regardless of if you want them. If you really don't want people to comment, don't post it.

As for giving critiques, I say that unless the thread specifically says no critiques, or the person posting it isn't the artist themselves, then it's really of no use to try. If they tell you up front they don't want critiques, then they won't listen anyways. If they're not the artist, they really can't make use of the info. Otherwise, it's open season.

Your opinion is exactly that. Your opinion. It is not fact, nor is it law. It's up to the artist themselves to decide if their art is good or not and they should not be influenced by the peanut gallery's every whim. If you're easily upset by comments from people, then you should seriously reconsider never putting up art online again. The net is a wild and untamed land of aggressive idiots, not a closed viewing hall built to rain praises down on you.

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The net is a wild and untamed land of aggressive idiots, not a closed viewing hall built to rain praises down on you.

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it's not!?

sonofa.......!!!~

If I post my art, by all means, feel free to critique it. It's considerably better than simply ignoring the thread/not responding/saying "Cool!" I posted one drawing of mine, and it has received, on DA, one comment. There was one other comment when I posted a thread about it. I had asked for comments, and was, for lack of a better word, offended at the lack of interest I received. It's really colored my thinking about posting my work, and not in a good way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Venture I'd never use a nuke in a superhero universe. You nuke a city, you kill 1.5 million people minus one. The last guy not only gets superpowers from the explosion, but ones that let him survive a nuke...and wow, is he torqued off

As an artist myself, I usually say "fire away!" in regards to the critics. I am of the view that it does help me get better. Since my biggest failing is that I work slower than most slugs, I don't put much out for public viewing, so I will take anything I can get. I do know that not everyone feels the same way.

To expound upon one thing Scarf Girl mentioned about non-artists critiquing... I think if anyone says to me, "Something about this part looks funny to me," no matter who they are, I'll take a look. I think sometimes if we stare at our own work long enough, we start seeing what we think is there rather than what is actually there. However, if that somebody has shown no artistic skill of their own, and they say, "This looks funny to me. Here is how you should fix it," my response is likely to be one of extreme irritation. It actually reminds me of an incident involving one of my pieces and a friend of mine. The piece had a gradient background that was light at the top and dark at the bottom. He said I should flip it. I said he was wrong. He was. If I made it dark at the top, the entire picture would be top-weighted, it threw off the balance of light and dark, and it drove the focal point sort of down around her thighs (?!). I tried to illustrate this point. He never agreed. However, if someone whose work I admire says, "This part looks a little off. Here is a suggestion for how you might want to fix it," then I will try my best to take the advice to heart.

Something about attracting more flies with honey? I think critiques are easier to stomach with the right phrasing. Like I bolded above, they sound better as a suggestion rather than saying, "DO THIS!" Also, specific is good. "This looks funny because..." is a lot more helpful than, "This looks funny." Finally, always pad it with the positive. My friend that I mentioned above is always quite generous with the critiques. He rarely has anything good to say. And he wonders why I hate showing my stuff to him...

I guess to echo what a lot of others said, I'd probably PM the person just to ask if they are interested in specific critiques. If they say yes, then fire away in PM number 2.

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Many artists take critiques very well...others do not. Best rule of thumb, if the artist has not solicited for advice and critiques...do not give them.

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Very wise advice.

I, however, am always open to accepting critiques.
The Elfwood community which I belong to (link in my sig) was built around critiquing each other's work to help amateur artists improve. That was my first online art experience, and I totally expect and appreciate it.

All I ask is that you be tactful.
Don't say something like "That arm is all wrong and messes up the piece." Say something more along the lines of "The elbow on that arm is wider than on the other arm, you may want to slim it down a tad. "

I say if you're specific about what bothers you, it's very helpful. But if you're just gonna trash a piece because something about it irks you, then just bite your tongue.

Also, if there are multiple things that are bugging you, just choose the most bothersome one to point out. But still, be specific about it. It's easier for an artist to focus on one portion of a picture at a time, and if they are still practicing, it's good to focus on one section of their work for improvement as they continue to practice. Just remember to also point out what you thought was good about the picture. "Positive reinforcement" and all that...

Also keep in mind that just because you may not like a style of a person's work does not mean it is a bad piece. It just means you don't like that style. And pointing that out will do nothing to help anyone.

But yeah, to anyone and everyone; tell me what I'm doing wrong, please. Just, y'know, politely.

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Many artists take critiques very well...others do not. Best rule of thumb, if the artist has not solicited for advice and critiques...do not give them.

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Very wise advice.

I, however, am always open to accepting critiques.
The Elfwood community which I belong to (link in my sig) was built around critiquing each other's work to help amateur artists improve. That was my first online art experience, and I totally expect and appreciate it.

All I ask is that you be tactful.
Don't say something like "That arm is all wrong and messes up the piece." Say something more along the lines of "The elbow on that arm is wider than on the other arm, you may want to slim it down a tad. "

I say if you're specific about what bothers you, it's very helpful. But if you're just gonna trash a piece because something about it irks you, then just bite your tongue.

Also, if there are multiple things that are bugging you, just choose the most bothersome one to point out. But still, be specific about it. It's easier for an artist to focus on one portion of a picture at a time, and if they are still practicing, it's good to focus on one section of their work for improvement as they continue to practice.

Also keep in mind that just because you may not like a style of a person's work does not mean it is a bad piece. It just means you don't like that style. And pointing that out will do nothing to help anyone.

But yeah, to anyone and everyone; tell me what I'm doing wrong, please. Just, y'know, politely.

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I was going to write something, but Aerones said it better than I could have. So, I am just going to quote him and say that I agree 100%.

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But yeah, to anyone and everyone; tell me what I'm doing wrong, please. Just, y'know, politely.

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Drawing all MEN!!!!!!!! Start drawing more hotty women JU!


Warface runs to hide in box--------->____
[___ ]


Sigh I cant draw boxes

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But yeah, to anyone and everyone; tell me what I'm doing wrong, please. Just, y'know, politely.

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Drawing all MEN!!!!!!!! Start drawing more hotty women JU!

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Click mah sig!
There's a few in there.
>.>
<.<
...And you'll be able to see why I don't draw as many women.
It's because I'm not good at it.

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Many artists take critiques very well...others do not. Best rule of thumb, if the artist has not solicited for advice and critiques...do not give them.

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Very wise advice.

I, however, am always open to accepting critiques.
The Elfwood community which I belong to (link in my sig) was built around critiquing each other's work to help amateur artists improve. That was my first online art experience, and I totally expect and appreciate it.

All I ask is that you be tactful.
Don't say something like "That arm is all wrong and messes up the piece." Say something more along the lines of "The elbow on that arm is wider than on the other arm, you may want to slim it down a tad. "

I say if you're specific about what bothers you, it's very helpful. But if you're just gonna trash a piece because something about it irks you, then just bite your tongue.

Also, if there are multiple things that are bugging you, just choose the most bothersome one to point out. But still, be specific about it. It's easier for an artist to focus on one portion of a picture at a time, and if they are still practicing, it's good to focus on one section of their work for improvement as they continue to practice.

Also keep in mind that just because you may not like a style of a person's work does not mean it is a bad piece. It just means you don't like that style. And pointing that out will do nothing to help anyone.

But yeah, to anyone and everyone; tell me what I'm doing wrong, please. Just, y'know, politely.

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I was going to write something, but Aerones said it better than I could have. So, I am just going to quote him and say that I agree 100%.

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Just wanna point out that I edited in the following line into my post apparently after you quoted it:
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Just remember to also point out what you thought was good about the picture. "Positive reinforcement" and all that...

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It's very rarely that I'll post a critique on any of the artwork on here. 'If you can't say something nice', and all that. However, there's at least one time I can recall where I've found a flaw in a picture and finally had to point it out; when I did, I said so in as nice as manner as I could. Luckily (AFAIK; the pic was never put up again that I've seen) the artist said it could be fixed.

My two cents:

I rarely post art on here. Mostly because it's not work safe. I don't ask for critiques here, because I belong to another board for just that purpose. If someone wants to offer one, yes, I would prefer it be in PM unless I'm specifically asking for critiques/advice (and there have been a lot of posts here requesting just that)

Unsolicited critiquing can grate a bit...I posted some of my recent work on the Livejournal CoH community and one person jumped on it for nit-picky things...I didn't really appreciate it.

Besides, I have a build-in critiquer sitting beside me. It usually has to pass Wyld's inspection before I post things anywhere.

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Id say it varies...

Your comission:
Critique it in private with the person doing it but remember that you chose them for their particular artstyle, just cause they have the expertise to draw it in another way, unless they are practicing other art styles they will probably stay in their comfort zone.

Someone elses commish:
Id say bite your tongue, remember that even if the artist does something, it couldbe at another persons request, therefore critiquing it could just frustrate the artist as they may not have done it by thier own choice. Now if it is in line with their other art... PM is the way to go about it.

Gift Art
If someone does gift art for you... Id say bite your tongue... honestly they are doing something out of the kindness of their own heart, even if you dont particularly like the piece know they spend thier time on it without expecting complensation except for your thanks. Now if it is someone elses gift art, id say PM them about it, as it was done usually byu thier own choice of style so it can properly be critiqued.

In General:
I have never really commished any piece but i have recieved one or two gift arts, id say if your going to critique something, be very polite and do it privately unless it is an open request for critiques

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Totally agree. When in doubt, take it to a PM. It's far too easy for a love-joy to go around bursting people's bubbles in the name of "critique"

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If you're the artist and you're posting your art up on a relatively public BBS because you want attention, then you really have no choice but to take critiques regardless of if you want them. If you really don't want people to comment, don't post it.

As for giving critiques, I say that unless the thread specifically says no critiques, or the person posting it isn't the artist themselves, then it's really of no use to try. If they tell you up front they don't want critiques, then they won't listen anyways. If they're not the artist, they really can't make use of the info. Otherwise, it's open season.

Your opinion is exactly that. Your opinion. It is not fact, nor is it law. It's up to the artist themselves to decide if their art is good or not and they should not be influenced by the peanut gallery's every whim. If you're easily upset by comments from people, then you should seriously reconsider never putting up art online again. The net is a wild and untamed land of aggressive idiots, not a closed viewing hall built to rain praises down on you.

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Totally disagree. While this forum may be semi-public, it has also enjoyed years of positive posting. The art foum has been a haven for a lot of posters. Little to no flame wars have meant that THIS is the place that they feel safe.

Not everyone is confident in their art and many need encouragement. Unless you are a pro (and I mean a teaching pro), then I don't think that your unslicited comments/critiques are able to take it all into account.

Do you know the age of the artist? The reason for doing the art? The vision desired? How long they have been drawing?

One (or a few) off handed comments could really drive away burgeoning artists.

I came here over a year ago and it was BECAUSE of all the positive coments that I gained the confidense to grow.

You might want to keep that in mind before you "insist" on your point.