Million dollar idea or Million ton failure?
By
2hawks,
Posted on: 2007-05-19 01:13 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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The problem with OK'ing submissions is partially an issue because of manpower. Depending on the number of submissions, you'd need people entirely devoted to reviewing, approving and ultimately putting that stuff into the game. That's not trivial, to be honest, when dealing with 100,000+
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No doubt.
That's where letting the players themselves handle the early stages of sorting comes in.
I'm completely ignorant of the economic realities of game design, but it seems that having a couple of people dedicated to guiding user-generated content into a game would be pretty cost-effective in the long run.
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Pardon me, but snark snark snark. Unless I'm completely out of left field here...but did Jack just chime in, say that he liked the idea, and that they'd consider implementing it, and you STILL played the DOOOOOM card? Okay, then--just checking.
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The problem with OK'ing submissions is partially an issue because of manpower. Depending on the number of submissions, you'd need people entirely devoted to reviewing, approving and ultimately putting that stuff into the game. That's not trivial, to be honest, when dealing with 100,000+ subscribers.
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This can't be anymore of a problem than creating the content yourself. In fact if anything it'd be much less manpower intensive. It's going to work because the game tools provided ensure that it must. The only thing you'd have to do it skim the text to make sure it doesn't contain improper language, and then play the mission once to see what you think of it. Once you pick one you like add it to test. If there's any problems the players will certainly find them.
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We've always talked about ways to get player material into the game...imagine using the base creator tools to make your own missions! Or a your own training room? Maybe some day we can figure a way to put this stuff into the game. The imagination just on these forums alone is so amazing; I can only hope we find a way an outlet for it.
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Well, perhaps once you guys are done working on the Marvel MMO then you'll have the time and resources to work on this idea.
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All I read here was 'You adressed and responded to the post idea with positive encouragement and a logical answer but Im still going to complain because this game is DOOOOOOOM'd and youre a sell out cause youre making MUO and DOOOOOOOOOOM!'
That sums it up, right?
What if this could only be done on the test server or a dedicated Player Mission server. Players could then test it and the most popular could be looked at by you guys.
Peregrine_Falcon wrote:
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This can't be anymore of a problem than creating the content yourself. In fact if anything it'd be much less manpower intensive.
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No offense, but I love it when someone not intimately involved in the project tells someone who is that it =must= be simple or it =can't= be that hard.
And some people wonder why the devs don't post as much any more.
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All I read here was 'You addressed and responded to the post idea with positive encouragement and a logical answer but Im still going to complain because this game is DOOOOOOOM'd and youre a sell out cause youre making MUO and DOOOOOOOOOOM!'
That sums it up, right?
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Wrong.
What I did was respond to Positron's post. I mentioned that I don't think it'd be as manpower intensive as Positron states. And I suggested a possible time frame for work to begin on this project. How exactly is this dOOOOm?
I realize of course that my statements are just my opinion, and Positron is certainly in a better position to know just how manpower intensive a project would be than I am. That combined with my low post count and my lack of a level 50 character will certainly lead a number of people to discount my posts no matter how sensible they are. This isn't going to stop me from stating my opinion.
It is my belief that the forum is here for all of us to state our opinions, not for all of us to simply agree with yours.
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Wrong.
What I did was respond to Positron's post. I mentioned that I don't think it'd be as manpower intensive as Positron states. And I suggested a possible time frame for work to begin on this project. How exactly is this dOOOOm?
I realize of course that my statements are just my opinion, and Positron is certainly in a better position to know just how manpower intensive a project would be than I am. That combined with my low post count and my lack of a level 50 character will certainly lead a number of people to discount my posts no matter how sensible they are. This isn't going to stop me from stating my opinion.
It is my belief that the forum is here for all of us to state our opinions, not for all of us to simply agree with yours.
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what
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All I read here was 'You addressed and responded to the post idea with positive encouragement and a logical answer but Im still going to complain because this game is DOOOOOOOM'd and youre a sell out cause youre making MUO and DOOOOOOOOOOM!'
That sums it up, right?
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Wrong.
What I did was respond to Positron's post. I mentioned that I don't think it'd be as manpower intensive as Positron states. And I suggested a possible time frame for work to begin on this project. How exactly is this dOOOOm?
I realize of course that my statements are just my opinion, and Positron is certainly in a better position to know just how manpower intensive a project would be than I am. That combined with my low post count and my lack of a level 50 character will certainly lead a number of people to discount my posts no matter how sensible they are. This isn't going to stop me from stating my opinion.
It is my belief that the forum is here for all of us to state our opinions, not for all of us to simply agree with yours.
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Probably because the manpower required to just make the mission is not as intensive as reviewing, testing, and then importing it into the game. Generally speaking, with as long as it takes things to get from their internal server to live, for even small patches, I'd tend to think that this would be at least semi-obvious.
They can't just toss aside all their procedures because players created a map instead of someone on the Mission Design team.
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All I read here was 'You addressed and responded to the post idea with positive encouragement and a logical answer but Im still going to complain because this game is DOOOOOOOM'd and youre a sell out cause youre making MUO and DOOOOOOOOOOM!'
That sums it up, right?
[/ QUOTE ]
Wrong.
What I did was respond to Positron's post. I mentioned that I don't think it'd be as manpower intensive as Positron states. And I suggested a possible time frame for work to begin on this project. How exactly is this dOOOOm?
I realize of course that my statements are just my opinion, and Positron is certainly in a better position to know just how manpower intensive a project would be than I am. That combined with my low post count and my lack of a level 50 character will certainly lead a number of people to discount my posts no matter how sensible they are. This isn't going to stop me from stating my opinion.
It is my belief that the forum is here for all of us to state our opinions, not for all of us to simply agree with yours.
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Oh because I actually stated my opinion? One way or another I care less I just want new content.
I wasnt the one who made assumptions without any Idea how things work internally and said 'Oh itll be easier than anything you do now' nor did I throw a Jab that resources are being siphoned off and they are losing support because they are focusing on MUO instead, even though you have nothing but assumptions to back that and they have said otherwise before on these boards.
But Im being mean and demanding you to agree with my opinion. Right?
You do realize it was Statesman and not Positron who you were responding to?
Just observing
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I think player created content can be GREAT...if it's handled correctly.
The problem with OK'ing submissions is partially an issue because of manpower. Depending on the number of submissions, you'd need people entirely devoted to reviewing, approving and ultimately putting that stuff into the game. That's not trivial, to be honest, when dealing with 100,000+ subscribers.
We've always talked about ways to get player material into the game...imagine using the base creator tools to make your own missions! Or a your own training room? Maybe some day we can figure a way to put this stuff into the game. The imagination just on these forums alone is so amazing; I can only hope we find a way an outlet for it.
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Run "make-a-mission" contests on the test server and let the players vote on their favorites 
To be honest, your post did sound a little DOOOOMish. Might not have been intended, but that's how it came off.
If it wasn't intended, just "lol whoops" it off and continue on. Don't assume people are attacking you because of your low post count and lack of a 50.
You n00b. (*whispers* lol he has no 50)
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Well, perhaps once you guys are done working on the Marvel MMO then you'll have the time and resources to work on this idea.
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When will folks realize that the other project has its own budget and staff. Sorry but in the business world you usually end up in jail for billing two different clients for the same work. Likewise the proprietary information within the product offerings would warrant different teams.
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You do realize it was Statesman and not Positron who you were responding to?
Just observing
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Oh. So it was. My mistake.
The solution that has been suggested is making player crated submissions "What if" missions, maybe on their own server. Unless they are at some point moved over to the main servers, there's no rewards, no xp, etc., so a Monty Haul mission is impossible
And I would kill to get my hands on such a tool. I've got three task forces already written in the back of my mind.
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Yeesh Gadget Don - tell us about it! You've been around forever and a day...I'd love to see your Task Force ideas.
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It is my belief that the forum is here for all of us to state our opinions, not for all of us to simply agree with yours.
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We're just telling you that your uninformed opinion is incorrect and directly contradicts someone who has already stated an informed one.
You're wrong. Deal. 
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Well, there's one with Sebastian Frost returning to the US from Europe, rumored to be picking a successor.
Then there's one where the Circle are trying to acquire certain highly questionable technology from Crey--and the question will be why, and whether or not they should be stopped.
And then there's a low-level one with the Hellions, the Skulls, and the Outcasts, all after something.
And interestingly enough...there's something in common between all three of them.
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And then there's a low-level one with the Hellions, the Skulls, and the Outcasts, all after something.
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Level 5+ please. It would be awesome to have a beginning TF to start out the game. You'd barely have any powers, you would need to rely more on teamwork than anything, and it's always fun kicking Hellion butt on a grand scale.
Ooooh, I think you should flesh those out and write em' up GadgetDon! Those sound great. 
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Designing a mission isn't really all that great (as it stands) since you basically get to define the text involved (mission offer, mission acceptance, mission entry, possibly mob flavor text) and a few basic elements (kind of mission, type of clicky (if any), name of hostage/boss, enemy types, tileset used).
I would much rather the devs provided the tools (or at least let us know which public tools should be used) to create our own tilesets FOR missions, and maybe script some text/plot for inclusion as policeband/newspaper missions....maybe even for TFs/Trials (though trials usually use custom, fixed maps in places).....and provide a SDK with the current tilesets/textures as a template.
All non-special missions are (mostly) randomized tiles connected together. Natural Cave, Dug Cave, Orenbega, Lab, Warehouse, Office, Arachnos Base, etc.
If we know the needed tile designs and the specific connection points, as well as the texturing restrictions, we (the community) could quickly build HUNDREDS of new tilesets in a relatively short order.....
Give us the needed info & tools, and the modders will come out of the woodwork and dive in head first.
Remember, 90% of the players won't even try. Of the 10% who do, about 75% won't ever get anything built they will submit. And of those who do build and submit, probably one quarter to one half will be joke/nude/etc. that can be quickly tossed out (at least at first.) So that's about 1.25% of the playerbase that knows about it that actually creates something useable. If about 1% know, that's about 0.0125% of the 120,000+ players. That still works out to 1500 players submitting work!
Now, allow it to be peer-reviewed via forums (for initial review) and Test Server (test review). Expect only 10% to make it to Test, and of those, probably around 20% would make it to Dev Review.....about 30 submissions. How often? Well, that depends on the specifications provided.....and it could be controlled (say, each player/team is allowed one submission per month.)
That seriously knocks down the chaff, and the added workload to the Dev/Support teams, while allowing players the opportunity to actually ADD something to the game they've worked hard on and supported.
(naturally, all submissions would become the property of NCSoft/CrypticStudios, as needed for them to be able to use/modify them freely)
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I have plenty of content ideas for COX, but no way to implement them 
for example, we dont have any missions with an insane amount of waves of ninja mobs ( think kill bill, or any hong kong MA film) and we don't have a Tsoo TF. This TF would allow heros to fight Tub Ci and a giant chinese dragon.
Another idea involves a trial that is a raid on a flying sky raider base and focuses on using current base defense technology for base raids to create a mayhem mission of sorts, but for heros.
If I could create custom missions and tfs and trials, I probably wouldnt sleep...ever...again.
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I like your idea of new tilesets heliumphoenix. I'd love to see some of the tilesets that are already in the game be made available for SG bases.
New tilesets for missions would be great. I'd like to see them in conjunction with new mission maps, preferably ones that are randomly generated. Randomly generating maps (within certain guidelines set by the programmers) adds a lot of "new content" with less effort. It also helps fight the boredom by preventing the situation wherein everyone has the whole map memorized.
[ QUOTE ]
The problem with OK'ing submissions is partially an issue because of manpower. Depending on the number of submissions, you'd need people entirely devoted to reviewing, approving and ultimately putting that stuff into the game. That's not trivial, to be honest, when dealing with 100,000+ subscribers.
[/ QUOTE ]
This can't be anymore of a problem than creating the content yourself. In fact if anything it'd be much less manpower intensive. It's going to work because the game tools provided ensure that it must. The only thing you'd have to do it skim the text to make sure it doesn't contain improper language, and then play the mission once to see what you think of it. Once you pick one you like add it to test. If there's any problems the players will certainly find them.
[ QUOTE ]
We've always talked about ways to get player material into the game...imagine using the base creator tools to make your own missions! Or a your own training room? Maybe some day we can figure a way to put this stuff into the game. The imagination just on these forums alone is so amazing; I can only hope we find a way an outlet for it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, perhaps once you guys are done working on the Marvel MMO then you'll have the time and resources to work on this idea.