Million dollar idea or Million ton failure?
By
2hawks,
Posted on: 2007-05-19 01:13 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
I'm quite aware of the theory Arcanaville, and indeed, that's all it is - a theory and a gamble. (One I'd make if I ran a business sufficiently awash in cash.)
What I am challenging is the OP's assumption that the 10% program has produced significant and useful tools.
Yes, it probably attracts some talent. However it's but one of the many perks (real and virtual) of working at Google. I suspect it's a dealmaker for relatively few, if any at all.
Their sucess at (and quality of) products that have made it to market (even in Beta) is spotty at best. (And we don't really know how many are a result of the 10%, all of the ones that are the result of the 10%, or how many of the 10% get rolled invisibly into existing products.) The quality of those products is equally spotty - and Google is slow to upgrade/repair them.
http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/
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All Google engineers are encouraged to spend 20% of their work time (one day per week) on projects that interest them. Some of Google's newer services, such as Gmail, Google News, Orkut, and AdSense originated from these independent endeavors.
In a talk at Stanford University, Marissa Mayer, Google's vice president of search products and user experience, stated that her analysis showed that half of new product launches originated from 20% time."
Adsense is one of their major revenue sources.
Gmail revolutionized webmail.
Google News is causing seizemic changes in the news industry.
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Actually - your quotes prove my point exactly. (Remember my point isn't just sucess - but the quality of the tools.) Precisely one of those tools has had major sucess (AdSense), and it's quality is acceptable. (It's so simple it would be hard to be otherwise, though its webmaster UI really needs some tweaking .) Gmail is feature-lite and a distant third in the market. Google News is causing seismic changes? Hardly. Most people aren't even aware it exists. It works decently enough - but there have been multiple accusations of bias leveled against it.
Now, if you look at the remainder of their launches - you see precisely what I noted in my original post. Most are feature-lite, tend to use 'unique' user interfaces, and get fixed/upgraded at great intervals if at all. Google got lucky with AdSense - they hit the jackpot. With Gmail they got five free tickets. Orkut is a ticket with four of the five numbers needed to win.
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Pretty gigantic dividends for a tiny corporate investment.
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Gigantic dividends from precisely *one* product - and a vast 'meh' from most of the world on the rest. (And 10% of an employees salary and overhead is hardly tiny.)
http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/
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I think player created content can be GREAT...if it's handled correctly.
The problem with OK'ing submissions is partially an issue because of manpower. Depending on the number of submissions, you'd need people entirely devoted to reviewing, approving and ultimately putting that stuff into the game. That's not trivial, to be honest, when dealing with 100,000+ subscribers.
We've always talked about ways to get player material into the game...imagine using the base creator tools to make your own missions! Or a your own training room? Maybe some day we can figure a way to put this stuff into the game. The imagination just on these forums alone is so amazing; I can only hope we find a way an outlet for it.
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Should I send in my resume? 
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[ QUOTE ]
All Google engineers are encouraged to spend 20% of their work time (one day per week) on projects that interest them. Some of Google's newer services, such as Gmail, Google News, Orkut, and AdSense originated from these independent endeavors.
In a talk at Stanford University, Marissa Mayer, Google's vice president of search products and user experience, stated that her analysis showed that half of new product launches originated from 20% time."
Adsense is one of their major revenue sources.
Gmail revolutionized webmail.
Google News is causing seizemic changes in the news industry.
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Actually - your quotes prove my point exactly. (Remember my point isn't just sucess - but the quality of the tools.) Precisely one of those tools has had major sucess (AdSense), and it's quality is acceptable. (It's so simple it would be hard to be otherwise, though its webmaster UI really needs some tweaking .) Gmail is feature-lite and a distant third in the market. Google News is causing seismic changes? Hardly. Most people aren't even aware it exists. It works decently enough - but there have been multiple accusations of bias leveled against it.
Now, if you look at the remainder of their launches - you see precisely what I noted in my original post. Most are feature-lite, tend to use 'unique' user interfaces, and get fixed/upgraded at great intervals if at all. Google got lucky with AdSense - they hit the jackpot. With Gmail they got five free tickets. Orkut is a ticket with four of the five numbers needed to win.
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Pretty gigantic dividends for a tiny corporate investment.
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Gigantic dividends from precisely *one* product - and a vast 'meh' from most of the world on the rest. (And 10% of an employees salary and overhead is hardly tiny.)
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Please pick a goal post and stick with it. At what point past "gigantic divendeds +" and all the rest of the points will it be worth it? 
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Gigantic dividends from precisely *one* product
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which they wouldn't have otherwise had.
Investing in r&d is always hit or miss, but one winner can carry your entire company.
How many copys of HL did Valve sell on the back of the player-created mod CounterStrike?
Giving players the tools and opportunity to 'help' your game is never a bad idea or a wasted investment.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Gmail is feature-lite and a distant third in the market.
[/ QUOTE ] To whom, in your opinion?
And he wasn't necessarily saying Gmail is the best - but he was saying it changed web-based email. And it has.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
I mentioned a similar idea a while back that I think fits in very well here. I thought the idea of villains being able to create "deathtraps" ala Arcade from Marvel, or Dr. Doom, or ETC, ETC, would be a great customization and another way for heroes and villains to interact that was challenging and fun. PvP is usually one or the other, sometimes both. That thought appears to overlap with many of the themes listed before me in terms of creating your own maps, mobs, inserting your story etc. It would be a really great second reason to create your own arcs and build your own settings, etc.
I think another thing to consider in this is that many of us can't play our own hero's vs our own vilains because its impossible to be in both roles at once. I'd love for my characters to fight my villains because thats who they are really "paired" up with. Lord Recluse is Stateman's Villain, and he gets to fight him. Why can't I fight my arch foe? I am lucky to be part of a community where people have offered to make each other's villains so we can actually duke it out sometime. But how nice would it be for you to be your hero or villain and set one of your other chracters as your opponent? PvP ths way even as one player is minions and the other is the protagonist until that final battle. Awesome fun.
Switch it around, villains can be on a jailbreak and need to get out of a maximum security prison where the hero is called in to stop them. So many scenarios if we want to work them out.
I know there are a number of pros and cons to this type of development. Lets look at the most important aspects of this game in terms of what CoH has done very right:
Costume Generator- Hands down, the best anywhere
Base Generator- even with its limitations I can do this for hours and enjoy it
(Playstyles- Casual Play friendly to Binge Play friendly
Sidekicking/Exemplaring- There's no excuse to be a loner, unless thats )what you want)
With some polish, they can be made available to the players just like their 2 very incredibly popular tools: The Costume Generator and Base Generator which are based on their own character and mapping tools. Rememebering HOW people play should help inform the depth of time the missions can take and their difficulty. Why not give people something that can take a LOAD of development time off of the developer's plates? Want to make Boomtown, the Rikti Crash Site, Eden, & Crey's Folley 100x more appealing? Put the contacts for making your own missions in there. Want to skip having to retool all those zones in the future? Put the contacts for making your own missions in there. The tools to make missions DO exist because the devs use them.
Memorable stories and events are what make heroes great, not how their powerset is slotted or what their percentages are. I've already forgetten every mission I skated through because I was slotted well and almost all the time I've sat afk waiting for the next mission. I remember every mission that fed me creatively or pushed my team to the last second. I always get turned into a number cruncher because I play games with number crunchers. I just want to beat the paste out of evil and have fun. I beg the game to let the heroes get back to being super heroes and not just number crunching simulations.