Thanks Infernus_Hades! I'm poking around the website but it seems to be pretty programmer heavy for resources and guides. Am I just looking in the wrong place for beginner animation stuff in Max?
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Samuel_Tow: Your avatar is... I think I like it
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1) Powers currently point to one animation and one set of FX scripts. There's no way in the our engine at this time to have them reference a different animation or different FX without just changing it in the power definition (which changes it for everyone). This isn't a small or insignificant change and without it we literally can't even begin to do costumized FX or animation.
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This is the big one right here, I'm guessing. From a programming standpoint, I can see two ways to change this, and both of them would open the door to Bug City. It couldn't possibly be as bad as the Invention system, but this'd be another one that would demand at least a month of beta testing.
That said, I think you'll find a large portion of the player base would be very happy if you devoted an entire issue to just power customization. This would be no small game feature, and pretty much everybody would be enjoying this new content. Devoting a whole issue to just that would also solve the problem of needing every department involved.
Custom animations would be a bigger draw for me than custom coloration, but one step at a time. -_o
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The explanation that the devs gave us as to why power customization was not possible was that the auras and power effects could not be changes, they were 'baked into' the animations themselves.
Of course, redoing the animation without them and adding a way to select which power effects you want and their color and stuff (basically power customizaiton) was possible, technically. But was not realist in term of work load for them.
Now, if there is a way for the player base to give them these animations already done... then, I guess, power customization become doable.
It is one of the most desired feature for the game, from what I read...
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No, the colors for a lot of particles are 'baked in' to the particle's texture. The FX scripts themselves are completely separate from animations. In fact there's a lot of animations that are shared between different powers with entirely different FX.
Power customization has some pretty big hurdles to overcome.
1) Powers currently point to one animation and one set of FX scripts. There's no way in the our engine at this time to have them reference a different animation or different FX without just changing it in the power definition (which changes it for everyone). This isn't a small or insignificant change and without it we literally can't even begin to do costumized FX or animation.
2) Colors in FX are often baked into the particle textures. Most of the time they're not, they use a greyscale texture and tint the color with an RGB value, but there's enough that do use a colored texture that it would require quite a bit of work to overhaul and set everything up for customization. We did test a more global system that could just shift the hue of the entire FX script around the color wheel, but it's not a complete solution to the problem. Namely that FX aren't normalized to a common color, there's no way to dynamically change this 'shift' value, and there's still issues with blend modes.
3) Particle FX most often use an additive blend mode. Additive means that the closer a color is to white (in RBG values), the more opaque it becomes. Secondaries like yellow (255, 255, 0) are more opaque than primaries like red (255, 0, 0). Black (0, 0 ,0) ends up being completely transparent. So to take the Energy Melee FX for example and make a black version or even a dark purple (64, 0, 64) or dark blue (0, 0, 64), we'd have to do more than just shift the RGB values around.
4) Even if the system could accept more than one animation or more than one FX script for a power, we don't have an in game system for allowing the player to choose this themselves. We could make one (probably based off of the costume editor in some way) but it's still another chunk of time to devote to this.
Those are the major issues that I can think of right now, there's other minor little issues here and there but it all adds up to a tremendous amount of dedicated work from multiple departments to pull it off.
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So why can't you make a whole set of "new" powersets? For example. WE have a fire blaster. Why not add Fire-Blue, Fire - Green, Fire - Purple, etc etc. It would be power custimization that would work with this system. For the engines pueposes its a new powerset calling on a specific FX for that powerset useing the animations you guys use. From our end we have green fire.
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This hack is a great idea. Can it be done?
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Hey, Bab!
Is it possible, then, to make the glowing aura of powers, once they are clicked or toggled on, to fade out after a bit? I really dislike the glowing on my Invuln tanker, and at times it has been nexeccary to turn the toggles off in order to 'see' something close by.
There are numerous other powers like that, and many with a totally annoying sound effect that have caused me to need to lower the sound volume to practically nill in the game settings.
A way for these to all fade away would at least be a great start.
And then....instead of fading away, maybe folks could eventually be able to set the fade to a different color.
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Try going into your graphic options and turning the particle count down. With the particle count high the Invul toggles are obnoxiously bright.
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Derrr.....duhhhh....I know all that stuff.
The thing is, I don't want to glow. I don't want to glisten. I don't want to shine. I don't want to thrummm, or throob, or whroom, or whooob. I just want to beat up the bad guys in peace. 
My Deviant Art page link-link
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1) Powers currently point to one animation and one set of FX scripts. There's no way in the our engine at this time to have them reference a different animation or different FX without just changing it in the power definition (which changes it for everyone). This isn't a small or insignificant change and without it we literally can't even begin to do costumized FX or animation.
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This is the big one right here, I'm guessing. From a programming standpoint, I can see two ways to change this, and both of them would open the door to Bug City. It couldn't possibly be as bad as the Invention system, but this'd be another one that would demand at least a month of beta testing.
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Agreed.
Colorizing a "baked on" power is theoretically possible. Not easy, not at all, but theoretically possible. However it's no use at all if you can't make use of it. I take BAB's comment as meaning that by the time the particle system gets round to rendering a power effect, it has no idea who started it and so has no idea how to color it, or if it should even be colored at all.
Yes, they could attempt to retrofit something in, but a change of that sort is not something you do lightly. As noted, it's just way too easy to break things in subtle ways that are mind-bendingly difficult to debug.
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That said, I think you'll find a large portion of the player base would be very happy if you devoted an entire issue to just power customization. This would be no small game feature, and pretty much everybody would be enjoying this new content. Devoting a whole issue to just that would also solve the problem of needing every department involved.
Custom animations would be a bigger draw for me than custom coloration, but one step at a time. -_o
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This is the old "convincing the devs it's worth it" problem. It represents a huge investment of their time. The fact that it keeps coming up here on the forums, over and over says there is a desire for it. Custom colored powers seems so natural as a L40 reward to follow capes and auras at L20 and L30.
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No, the colors for a lot of particles are 'baked in' to the particle's texture. The FX scripts themselves are completely separate from animations. In fact there's a lot of animations that are shared between different powers with entirely different FX.
Power customization has some pretty big hurdles to overcome.
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Woaw, thanks BaB to take so much time to correct all my misconceptions.
I don't know much about animation unfortunatelly.
It just, so many people want power customization so much... I can't help myself but daydreaming solution for it...
I know it would be a lot of work and would require putting many things on the back burner. But I think you would be surprised how many players would be ready for that. I think that it is such a desired feature than an issue with just power customization (like I9 was almost just the Invention system) would be pretty well received...
Well, keep up the good work.
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This is the old "convincing the devs it's worth it" problem. It represents a huge investment of their time. The fact that it keeps coming up here on the forums, over and over says there is a desire for it. Custom colored powers seems so natural as a L40 reward to follow capes and auras at L20 and L30.
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This slightly derails the conversation up to this point, but IF it were to be level-based, it should be made available at 10, not at 40. This is the kind of system every player of the game should have access to. IMO, it should be available from the moment your character blinks into existence.
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So why can't you make a whole set of "new" powersets? For example. WE have a fire blaster. Why not add Fire-Blue, Fire - Green, Fire - Purple, etc etc. It would be power custimization that would work with this system. For the engines pueposes its a new powerset calling on a specific FX for that powerset useing the animations you guys use. From our end we have green fire.
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This very likely would be the best compromise, although I wonder if it would make the game 10x larger... but a new menu that basically sets up fire as a category and the colors as a powerset like that that displays say 9 color choices... ROYGBIV + B/W and the approximate color shade used throughout the powerset. Would require revamping the character creation slightly to two menus or one huge one... But that's a great idea to meet in-between for what's probably their #1 request of all things people want for this game.
I think the #1 request is probably more things for high level characters to do.
There are quite a few people that really just don't care about color customization, and would be up in arms that significant developer time would be put to something that a large percentage of players couldn't care less about.
Personally, it would be nice to have, but I really wouldn't use it much.
-- War
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So why can't you make a whole set of "new" powersets? For example. WE have a fire blaster. Why not add Fire-Blue, Fire - Green, Fire - Purple, etc etc. It would be power custimization that would work with this system. For the engines pueposes its a new powerset calling on a specific FX for that powerset useing the animations you guys use. From our end we have green fire.
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This hack is a great idea. Can it be done?
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I've brought this particular varient up a few times in the past. Not only can it be done, it has been done. Just take a look at Luminary's powers in CoV, or Electric Melee compared to Electricity Manipulation.
The two big problems with the simplified version are providing an interface to impliment it, and far, far more difficult, actually redoing enough powers like that. How many hundreds (thousands) of recolors would have to be done to provide even 3 color options per set?
Then again, we are in a thread talking about player creations...
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I think that it is such a desired feature than an issue with just power customization (like I9 was almost just the Invention system) would be pretty well received...
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Sorry, but no way. I would actually be upset if the devs gave us an issue with nothing but the ability to change the colors of our powers. I can think of nearly a dozen things I would rather see added to the game.
1) endgame content (for level 50s)
2) new powersets
3) epic ATs
4) new zones
5) new emotes
6) new salvage and recipes
7) new task forces
8) new trials
9) new enemy groups
10) new costume parts
The game really, really, really needs new content for level 50s. Changing the colors of powers should be very low on the list of priorities.
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So why can't you make a whole set of "new" powersets? For example. WE have a fire blaster. Why not add Fire-Blue, Fire - Green, Fire - Purple, etc etc. It would be power custimization that would work with this system.
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My bet is, because old players who picked the original 'Fire' blaster would whine about not being able to change their color and demand the devs allow them to switch to another of the 'Fire' powersets (which, even if the devs allowed to happen, is a powerset switch and a bug could make it switch into another powerset instead of just another color of the same powerset...)
I can see why they don't want to do it that way.
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Precisely. Sloppy design only gets you into trouble.
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Samuel_Tow: Your avatar is... I think I like it
I wouldn't call it sloppy so much as a lack of foresight.
Remember, Cryptic was kinda new when CoH launched. There's just some things they didn't know and couldn't foresee. They probably know better now but that doesn't changed code that was written 3+ years ago.
I'll cut them some slack for not knowing some things but I hope that some of the changes today address some of the spots where they've coded themselves into a corner so to speak.
In other words devs, I hope that some of the updates now have some effect on altering some of what was 'hard-baked' into the code lo those many years ago. Granted, I'm a hopeless optimist.
I wasn't saying their initial design was sloppy. Just replying to that idea that you could have the same Fire Blaster powersets copied as different colors. That is just something waiting to cause trouble.
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Samuel_Tow: Your avatar is... I think I like it
Meep!
Never mind then. Sorry for the confusion.
I got a meep outta Athyna! I live for this stuff! 
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Remember kids, crack is whack!
Samuel_Tow: Your avatar is... I think I like it
BAB---
Could you float this idea past the 'powers that be (that so happen to make these decisions)'---
Would you all consider taking a survey of your gaming accounts---a survey sent to all account holders---that would ask (1) if the account holder would consider investing a sum of money to the game developers for the sole purpose of paying for the additional work required (for powers customization)? (That would be just be a yes or no choice).
And (2) if yes, then provide a spread answer choice of anywhere from $5, $10, $15, $20, or $25 of how much said account holder would be willing to invest in this new service from the developers.
Once all surveys would be tabulated---the first measure would be to determine if a significant majority of the paying base would consider paying something more for this added feature.
The second measure would be to determine if the the amount willing to be offered for this added feature would be enough to pay for the additional man-hours required to create this feature.
Personally, I would be willing to pay the $20 to 25 zone...and we have 3 accounts in my household.
---or---
Would the developers consider creating a paid-for expansion box that would feature (primarily) powers customization? You KNOW it would sell off the racks.
~ Jonathan
Isn't BAB the producer? Wouldn't he be the powers that be? I guess part of the job is convincing not only others but yourself that something is worth it.
I might be wrong on the producer thing though.
Playstation 3 - XBox 360 - Wii - PSP
Remember kids, crack is whack!
Samuel_Tow: Your avatar is... I think I like it
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The explanation that the devs gave us as to why power customization was not possible was that the auras and power effects could not be changes, they were 'baked into' the animations themselves.
Of course, redoing the animation without them and adding a way to select which power effects you want and their color and stuff (basically power customizaiton) was possible, technically. But was not realist in term of work load for them.
Now, if there is a way for the player base to give them these animations already done... then, I guess, power customization become doable.
It is one of the most desired feature for the game, from what I read...
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No, the colors for a lot of particles are 'baked in' to the particle's texture. The FX scripts themselves are completely separate from animations. In fact there's a lot of animations that are shared between different powers with entirely different FX.
Power customization has some pretty big hurdles to overcome.
1) Powers currently point to one animation and one set of FX scripts. There's no way in the our engine at this time to have them reference a different animation or different FX without just changing it in the power definition (which changes it for everyone). This isn't a small or insignificant change and without it we literally can't even begin to do costumized FX or animation.
2) Colors in FX are often baked into the particle textures. Most of the time they're not, they use a greyscale texture and tint the color with an RGB value, but there's enough that do use a colored texture that it would require quite a bit of work to overhaul and set everything up for customization. We did test a more global system that could just shift the hue of the entire FX script around the color wheel, but it's not a complete solution to the problem. Namely that FX aren't normalized to a common color, there's no way to dynamically change this 'shift' value, and there's still issues with blend modes.
3) Particle FX most often use an additive blend mode. Additive means that the closer a color is to white (in RBG values), the more opaque it becomes. Secondaries like yellow (255, 255, 0) are more opaque than primaries like red (255, 0, 0). Black (0, 0 ,0) ends up being completely transparent. So to take the Energy Melee FX for example and make a black version or even a dark purple (64, 0, 64) or dark blue (0, 0, 64), we'd have to do more than just shift the RGB values around.
4) Even if the system could accept more than one animation or more than one FX script for a power, we don't have an in game system for allowing the player to choose this themselves. We could make one (probably based off of the costume editor in some way) but it's still another chunk of time to devote to this.
Those are the major issues that I can think of right now, there's other minor little issues here and there but it all adds up to a tremendous amount of dedicated work from multiple departments to pull it off.
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The $64,000 question is; is it worth it?
My opinion is 'yes'. But I won't pretend my opinion is anything more than my own. *nod*
I will not rest until we have in-game throwable pies!
Am I the only one who chuckles everytime someone asks for 'endgame content for 50s'?
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Those are the major issues that I can think of right now, there's other minor little issues here and there but it all adds up to a tremendous amount of dedicated work from multiple departments to pull it off.
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To be honest that sounded like a lot less work that I was expecting.
So get on it already!
j/k 
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Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
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Am I the only one who chuckles everytime someone asks for 'endgame content for 50s'?
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Nope
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Quick and Dirty Solution to Power Customization:
In new CoX box sets, include squares of tinted polypropelene (cut to fit, square, 22" on diagonal) and scotch tape.
Pick the shade you wish, and tape it to your monitor. Voila!! Instant power color customization!!
They even have printed polypropelene for patterned effects.
I would, without reservation, pay for another box @ up to $50 and pony up $5 more/month if you made this possible.
I'm not kidding, and I can't see any market surveys you have done on the matter, but I know of at least 20 other people that would be willing to do one or the other as well.