Oh cool! I can finally get that animation I've always wanted to make: feigning death. Ideal in those situations when a lev50 ambush is running upto my lev30 toon! Maybe they'll attack, maybe they'll run past - help me animation help! 
Pretty cool, I will have try this out. Now if they let us make new environments, or at least have us do some new textures paks
"if I am guilty for what goes on in my mind, than give me the electric chair for all my future crimes"
Ok folks, start listing listing emotes and new/redone attacts you'd like to see. I'm bored and haven't animated in a couple years. Keep in mind I'm partial to Tankers and Super Strength.
Why not starting to animate the attacks that already are in the game?
I think that if they can get their hands on a good stack of the power animations without the power effetcs (just the body animations), then power customization become possible...
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Why not starting to animate the attacks that already are in the game?
I think that if they can get their hands on a good stack of the power animations without the power effetcs (just the body animations), then power customization become possible...
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Um...wha?
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The explanation that the devs gave us as to why power customization was not possible was that the auras and power effects could not be changes, they were 'baked into' the animations themselves.
Of course, redoing the animation without them and adding a way to select which power effects you want and their color and stuff (basically power customizaiton) was possible, technically. But was not realist in term of work load for them.
Now, if there is a way for the player base to give them these animations already done... then, I guess, power customization become doable.
It is one of the most desired feature for the game, from what I read...
Could you post a link to this? That doesn't make any sense. Why wouldn't they have the source animation files for their own game?
If this is what they said, it's sounds like a fib coupled with a scapegoat to me.
They have the animations. But the animations file is both the 'Emote' part of the animation (throw the fists in front of you for power blast) and the power effect (a blue cone of energy surround your fists).
It is 'baked together' and they do not have the emote and power effects bit separated.
If they add, they could probably set up a system where you can select the emote animation of the character (like they did for flight) and then select the power effect and it's color.
But they do not have this separate animation files and it would require them going back and re-animating them for all the existing powers. Not gonna happen as they can not afford all this animator time.
that's what I understood, I will try to find oyu a linky...
I understand what you're saying there, but I think there's been a little mix up. Here is what I think is going on:
Before an animation is exported from 3d Studio Max, it exists as just the animation in .max format. No effects or anything else. That's how it's worked on by the animators.
After the animators are finished, it it exported from Max into whatever format their engine uses. Then it's scripted into a sequence and imported into their game engine.
The animations still exist by themselves in .max format. They have them saved somewhere in their database. The fact is, it's too much work for the devs to re-export every animation in the game and as well as re-write how the game handles the scripts to make power customization possible.
Having the players re-do all the animations acomplishes nothing.
However, Back Alley Brawler said earlier in this thread that it *might* be possible for users to create new Emotes (not attacks) if the Devs made a way to convert animations done with the Cryptic AR rig to their old ones.
Possible, but unlikely given the legal issues and ammount of work involved.
That being said, I still want to create a few myself. Just for fun and practice. You never know what ideas you'll give them and there's always the chance they like what they see enough to make something happen.
So, I ask again, What are some emotes / attacks you people would like to see?
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I see.
That was not the way I understood it, but it is possible.
Then, re-producing the animaitons would accomplish nothing, that's true.
But still, the more new animations/emotes are produces, the bigger is the incitation for the devs to find a way to translate these animations cheaply in the game engine.
And power customization would benefit and use this mechanism.
I dunno /e shrug. That owuld be nice...
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The explanation that the devs gave us as to why power customization was not possible was that the auras and power effects could not be changes, they were 'baked into' the animations themselves.
Of course, redoing the animation without them and adding a way to select which power effects you want and their color and stuff (basically power customizaiton) was possible, technically. But was not realist in term of work load for them.
Now, if there is a way for the player base to give them these animations already done... then, I guess, power customization become doable.
It is one of the most desired feature for the game, from what I read...
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No, the colors for a lot of particles are 'baked in' to the particle's texture. The FX scripts themselves are completely separate from animations. In fact there's a lot of animations that are shared between different powers with entirely different FX.
Power customization has some pretty big hurdles to overcome.
1) Powers currently point to one animation and one set of FX scripts. There's no way in the our engine at this time to have them reference a different animation or different FX without just changing it in the power definition (which changes it for everyone). This isn't a small or insignificant change and without it we literally can't even begin to do costumized FX or animation.
2) Colors in FX are often baked into the particle textures. Most of the time they're not, they use a greyscale texture and tint the color with an RGB value, but there's enough that do use a colored texture that it would require quite a bit of work to overhaul and set everything up for customization. We did test a more global system that could just shift the hue of the entire FX script around the color wheel, but it's not a complete solution to the problem. Namely that FX aren't normalized to a common color, there's no way to dynamically change this 'shift' value, and there's still issues with blend modes.
3) Particle FX most often use an additive blend mode. Additive means that the closer a color is to white (in RBG values), the more opaque it becomes. Secondaries like yellow (255, 255, 0) are more opaque than primaries like red (255, 0, 0). Black (0, 0 ,0) ends up being completely transparent. So to take the Energy Melee FX for example and make a black version or even a dark purple (64, 0, 64) or dark blue (0, 0, 64), we'd have to do more than just shift the RGB values around.
4) Even if the system could accept more than one animation or more than one FX script for a power, we don't have an in game system for allowing the player to choose this themselves. We could make one (probably based off of the costume editor in some way) but it's still another chunk of time to devote to this.
Those are the major issues that I can think of right now, there's other minor little issues here and there but it all adds up to a tremendous amount of dedicated work from multiple departments to pull it off.
It's good to see some solid dialog on this. Thanks for being upfront on this to us BAB, means a lot to us.
I'm an animator, been animating in Maya for years and I just went and got 3DS Max 9. I have no idea what I'm doing. 
So I'm asking anyone out there in the community who animates in Max and feels pretty comfortable in it if they would be able to get me up to speed on the basics. If anyone is feeling helpful/kind/mentorly/etc. please feel free to send me a PM.
Right now I'm pretty lost in the sauce. Not even sure how to set a key. 
Playstation 3 - XBox 360 - Wii - PSP
Remember kids, crack is whack!
Samuel_Tow: Your avatar is... I think I like it
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We did test a more global system that could just shift the hue of the entire FX script around the color wheel, but it's not a complete solution to the problem.
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I know this is just feeding the fire, but I'd be incredibly satisfied with just that.
Also MUCH thanks BaB, you're the first dev to give very specific details on why this can't be done. I've been hoping for power customization since i1, but now I have a better understanding of why it can't just be a 'slapped-on' feature.
I'm also guessing you can't just make the CoX rig available for legal/time/technical reasons.
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Hey, Bab!
Is it possible, then, to make the glowing aura of powers, once they are clicked or toggled on, to fade out after a bit? I really dislike the glowing on my Invuln tanker, and at times it has been nexeccary to turn the toggles off in order to 'see' something close by.
There are numerous other powers like that, and many with a totally annoying sound effect that have caused me to need to lower the sound volume to practically nill in the game settings.
A way for these to all fade away would at least be a great start.
And then....instead of fading away, maybe folks could eventually be able to set the fade to a different color.
My Deviant Art page link-link
CoH/V Fan Videos
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The explanation that the devs gave us as to why power customization was not possible was that the auras and power effects could not be changes, they were 'baked into' the animations themselves.
Of course, redoing the animation without them and adding a way to select which power effects you want and their color and stuff (basically power customizaiton) was possible, technically. But was not realist in term of work load for them.
Now, if there is a way for the player base to give them these animations already done... then, I guess, power customization become doable.
It is one of the most desired feature for the game, from what I read...
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No, the colors for a lot of particles are 'baked in' to the particle's texture. The FX scripts themselves are completely separate from animations. In fact there's a lot of animations that are shared between different powers with entirely different FX.
Power customization has some pretty big hurdles to overcome.
1) Powers currently point to one animation and one set of FX scripts. There's no way in the our engine at this time to have them reference a different animation or different FX without just changing it in the power definition (which changes it for everyone). This isn't a small or insignificant change and without it we literally can't even begin to do costumized FX or animation.
2) Colors in FX are often baked into the particle textures. Most of the time they're not, they use a greyscale texture and tint the color with an RGB value, but there's enough that do use a colored texture that it would require quite a bit of work to overhaul and set everything up for customization. We did test a more global system that could just shift the hue of the entire FX script around the color wheel, but it's not a complete solution to the problem. Namely that FX aren't normalized to a common color, there's no way to dynamically change this 'shift' value, and there's still issues with blend modes.
3) Particle FX most often use an additive blend mode. Additive means that the closer a color is to white (in RBG values), the more opaque it becomes. Secondaries like yellow (255, 255, 0) are more opaque than primaries like red (255, 0, 0). Black (0, 0 ,0) ends up being completely transparent. So to take the Energy Melee FX for example and make a black version or even a dark purple (64, 0, 64) or dark blue (0, 0, 64), we'd have to do more than just shift the RGB values around.
4) Even if the system could accept more than one animation or more than one FX script for a power, we don't have an in game system for allowing the player to choose this themselves. We could make one (probably based off of the costume editor in some way) but it's still another chunk of time to devote to this.
Those are the major issues that I can think of right now, there's other minor little issues here and there but it all adds up to a tremendous amount of dedicated work from multiple departments to pull it off.
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It's REALLY awesome to get such a solid peek at some of your architecture.
Sgt Liberty - 50 Martial Arts / Super Reflexes
Verdigris Eagle - 50 Archery / Energy Manipulation
Stormeye - 50 Storm Summoning / Electric Blast
Another "thank you, BAB!" I completely understand that making power-graphics customization may entail on overhaul of a ton of code, similar to making a whole new game. That isn't what a company wants to spend their time and money on unless it IS a new game.
And I, for one, feel that you Devs do pay a good deal of attention to what players talk about, and I am also appreciative of this. If you aren't aware of it, there is a very good thread here by Euler where a ton of people chime in about how much they love the character design aspect in CoX, and how much it plays a decision on their choice of MMOs. So, considering this, I wonder if some kind of customization may be worth the work put into. I know you aren't talking about a small- or even medium-sized project, but sounds like the customers as a whole [u]love[u] the idea.
Sounds like there are hurdles-a-plenty for colour changes, but what about different kinds of claws, swords, axes?
I, too, am a programmer, though not anything visual(heck, my users don't even use a mouse!) I greatly appreciate what work you devleopers continue to put into my favorite game(not counting Xcom, but I need dos for that). And I greatly appreciate that the company continues to value our involvement in the game, and shows it by continuing to support it.
Thanks!
Oooh, 2 posts by BAB in my topic
Anyways, like Angello said, I'd actually like just having the ability to change the color(s)/hue(s) of a power. Now I know maybe that wouldn't be the bestest thing ever but...it would be neat/cool to have Hasten be a light green color like Radiation Blast set, or to have Dark Blast be colored red or just a pre-select number of colors.
That's just me though...
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MKW FC: 4167-4891-5991
I hope i speak for most that custom ANIMATIONS are just the most ridiculous request ever. Its a great fantasy, but come on people. Lets be realistic.
As for color customization, thatsa whole different story. It is feaseable without breaking anything in game, it would just require time, like with capes, wings, and trenchcoats. And I can wait.
Go to here and get help
http://www.gamedev.net/
Check out the forums:
http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/
They can help you with everything from programming to music and including all graphics engines.
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Hey, Bab!
Is it possible, then, to make the glowing aura of powers, once they are clicked or toggled on, to fade out after a bit? I really dislike the glowing on my Invuln tanker, and at times it has been nexeccary to turn the toggles off in order to 'see' something close by.
There are numerous other powers like that, and many with a totally annoying sound effect that have caused me to need to lower the sound volume to practically nill in the game settings.
A way for these to all fade away would at least be a great start.
And then....instead of fading away, maybe folks could eventually be able to set the fade to a different color.
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Try going into your graphic options and turning the particle count down. With the particle count high the Invul toggles are obnoxiously bright.
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The explanation that the devs gave us as to why power customization was not possible was that the auras and power effects could not be changes, they were 'baked into' the animations themselves.
Of course, redoing the animation without them and adding a way to select which power effects you want and their color and stuff (basically power customizaiton) was possible, technically. But was not realist in term of work load for them.
Now, if there is a way for the player base to give them these animations already done... then, I guess, power customization become doable.
It is one of the most desired feature for the game, from what I read...
[/ QUOTE ]
No, the colors for a lot of particles are 'baked in' to the particle's texture. The FX scripts themselves are completely separate from animations. In fact there's a lot of animations that are shared between different powers with entirely different FX.
Power customization has some pretty big hurdles to overcome.
1) Powers currently point to one animation and one set of FX scripts. There's no way in the our engine at this time to have them reference a different animation or different FX without just changing it in the power definition (which changes it for everyone). This isn't a small or insignificant change and without it we literally can't even begin to do costumized FX or animation.
2) Colors in FX are often baked into the particle textures. Most of the time they're not, they use a greyscale texture and tint the color with an RGB value, but there's enough that do use a colored texture that it would require quite a bit of work to overhaul and set everything up for customization. We did test a more global system that could just shift the hue of the entire FX script around the color wheel, but it's not a complete solution to the problem. Namely that FX aren't normalized to a common color, there's no way to dynamically change this 'shift' value, and there's still issues with blend modes.
3) Particle FX most often use an additive blend mode. Additive means that the closer a color is to white (in RBG values), the more opaque it becomes. Secondaries like yellow (255, 255, 0) are more opaque than primaries like red (255, 0, 0). Black (0, 0 ,0) ends up being completely transparent. So to take the Energy Melee FX for example and make a black version or even a dark purple (64, 0, 64) or dark blue (0, 0, 64), we'd have to do more than just shift the RGB values around.
4) Even if the system could accept more than one animation or more than one FX script for a power, we don't have an in game system for allowing the player to choose this themselves. We could make one (probably based off of the costume editor in some way) but it's still another chunk of time to devote to this.
Those are the major issues that I can think of right now, there's other minor little issues here and there but it all adds up to a tremendous amount of dedicated work from multiple departments to pull it off.
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Ok, I expect this all done before your Thursday meeting, get hopping!
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The explanation that the devs gave us as to why power customization was not possible was that the auras and power effects could not be changes, they were 'baked into' the animations themselves.
Of course, redoing the animation without them and adding a way to select which power effects you want and their color and stuff (basically power customizaiton) was possible, technically. But was not realist in term of work load for them.
Now, if there is a way for the player base to give them these animations already done... then, I guess, power customization become doable.
It is one of the most desired feature for the game, from what I read...
[/ QUOTE ]
No, the colors for a lot of particles are 'baked in' to the particle's texture. The FX scripts themselves are completely separate from animations. In fact there's a lot of animations that are shared between different powers with entirely different FX.
Power customization has some pretty big hurdles to overcome.
1) Powers currently point to one animation and one set of FX scripts. There's no way in the our engine at this time to have them reference a different animation or different FX without just changing it in the power definition (which changes it for everyone). This isn't a small or insignificant change and without it we literally can't even begin to do costumized FX or animation.
2) Colors in FX are often baked into the particle textures. Most of the time they're not, they use a greyscale texture and tint the color with an RGB value, but there's enough that do use a colored texture that it would require quite a bit of work to overhaul and set everything up for customization. We did test a more global system that could just shift the hue of the entire FX script around the color wheel, but it's not a complete solution to the problem. Namely that FX aren't normalized to a common color, there's no way to dynamically change this 'shift' value, and there's still issues with blend modes.
3) Particle FX most often use an additive blend mode. Additive means that the closer a color is to white (in RBG values), the more opaque it becomes. Secondaries like yellow (255, 255, 0) are more opaque than primaries like red (255, 0, 0). Black (0, 0 ,0) ends up being completely transparent. So to take the Energy Melee FX for example and make a black version or even a dark purple (64, 0, 64) or dark blue (0, 0, 64), we'd have to do more than just shift the RGB values around.
4) Even if the system could accept more than one animation or more than one FX script for a power, we don't have an in game system for allowing the player to choose this themselves. We could make one (probably based off of the costume editor in some way) but it's still another chunk of time to devote to this.
Those are the major issues that I can think of right now, there's other minor little issues here and there but it all adds up to a tremendous amount of dedicated work from multiple departments to pull it off.
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So why can't you make a whole set of "new" powersets? For example. WE have a fire blaster. Why not add Fire-Blue, Fire - Green, Fire - Purple, etc etc. It would be power custimization that would work with this system. For the engines pueposes its a new powerset calling on a specific FX for that powerset useing the animations you guys use. From our end we have green fire.
Its as simple as make it happen and you can start having my money again.
It outweighs my hatred of hunting for costume parts.
It outweighs my disgust with the rate of new mission production.
It is the one thing I can think of that would without question get me back on board (and keep me long enough for some of these pie in the sky plotline promises to actually materialize).
This is amazing!
This could be THE solution that finally makes power customization possible!
from what I heard their main difficulty with power customization would be to redo all the animation without the power effects so that these effects could be added later.
Not a huge technical hurdle but a huge and unafordable use of time for them. but if player did that part of the job...
Start drooling again. Power... customization...