You don't miss it until it's gone. (part 2)
By
Alimistar,
Posted on: 2007-04-16 16:14 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
I'm in the pre-order beta for that game that the OP mentions. I'm also still here. I've been here for over two and a half years and I don't plan to leave soon. Many of the people in my SG have been here since beta. We've all seen all of the content. Many of us are looking for a different diversion for a bit.
Some of the people in my SG drew my attention to the other game. I poked around for a weekend stress test during its closed beta. I had fun, but it didn't grab me in the same way that City of Heroes did the first time I played it.
The "City of" games do several things very well. They do a few things poorly and they don't do some things at all. Overall, I'm happy here but I do need a break every now and again.
I tried the Insanely Popular MMO on a 10 day trial a few months back and the two things that I found most distasteful there were the graphics that look geared to a 3 year old and the fact that I ran out of missions on two different characters before hitting level 13. The game play in the new MMO is in many ways similar to that of the Insanely Popular MMO, and no, it's not great but it's not awful either. There are some settings changes I can make to make it better. In CoH, every time I make a new character I spend the first two minutes making settings changes, so that's not an argument.
Oh, and the artwork in the new MMO is breathtaking and there's absolutely no shortage of missions that I've seen yet, so it's already better than the Insanely Popular MMO that everyone says it's "exactly the same as". I've heard that there's a dead spot in the late 30's, but they've got plans to fix that in the first content patch (probably 2-3 months out). Meanwhile, CoV shipped with a dead spot in missions in the late 30's and after the first patch there was still a dead spot in the late 40's.
I agree with all of the good things that are in this game. It's why I'm still here. There are many things that are good here that are not found in any other MMO on the market, nor in any one that's in development that I know of. On the other hand, the OP is comparing a game that's been out three years and had 8 (almost 9) content patches to a game that won't even hit shelves for another week.
Oh, and I really like the pricing structure that's being proposed for the new MMO as well. I plan to pay less for that game in one payment next month than I've payed NcSoft over the past 32 months and never have to pay a subscription fee again. In another 32 months I will probably still be paying for City of, but I won't be paying for the other one. And I'll be playing both.
My local SG mates and I have been with COX from the beginning and though we all migrated to WoW, SWG, Vanguard, and now LOTR briefly, we always came running back to CoX.
Fun is the big difference.
No game comes close to matching CoX in its combat engine and I bang my head against the keyboard when I see how new MMOs just continue to not get it and there seems no attempt to learn from CoH.
In CoH, combat is where the fun is, especially grouped combat. In all the other MMOs, combat is designed to be a tool, a chore, as a means of advancement. It really isn't fun. I dread a fight in the other games and look forward to them in CoX.
Yes, I long for that other thing that will give us something to do in CoX other than combat for when we want to be in that universe without requiring full attention and energy and that is why we keep looking elsewhere.
As good as CoX is, I can't play it for long periods anymore. The gameplay flips from frentic fun to monotony surprisingly quickly but that is because there is little new to see and do.
One more thing makes this game stand head and shoulders above the others: It feels like the Devs play it. There is no hint of that in any other MMOs that I've explored.
[ QUOTE ]
And yet you are back here on the boards and playing this game. I realize you enjoy throwing fits, but to be honest if the game bothers you that much take another break from it.
Sure, there are things I don't like about CoH, but having tried many MMOs, including recently trying the beta of the one mentioned by the OP, I don't see myself leaving here. For my playstyle and tastes, CoH is still the best I've found.
[/ QUOTE ]
BIOYA. I realize it's easier to give a full-mouth kiss to statesman's crimson star-spangled cheeks, than to notice that you're being shined on, but you might want to consider taking a break from mindlessly adoring someone's PR nonsense, and try something else, like vigorous butter churning.
Bother me that much? I didn't mention the game bothering me that much. What bothers me is that for every step forward, we get two steps backward for reasons which are ambiguous.
This 'we wrote a word somewhere' thing isn't real; it's pandering. Fine. Fun. Great. As opposed to so many other franchises which put the word 'hideous boils' up on their white boards first. You don't get an award for knowing that games should be fun.
So CoH is the best you've found so far. Same here. But, that's among a very small crowd. The number of MMOs currently available is still small compared to the overall game market, especially when you group them by broad similarities. There's at least a dozen which are basically Everquest with minor adjustments.
My problems with this game are very specific; How is it fun to do that same damn thing 100 times, when it's an automated process overlaying rolling dice? It's not. It's something I, and most people, can certainly be sucked into doing, but that's not why we play this game. Nobody, I think, would argue that pressing the same 2-5 buttons repeatedly when soloing or playing on a small team, is really what they're looking for in a game. It's not a game at all, it's a cash register with pretty lights. The innovative parts of this game have been consistently hemmed in; like freedom of movement, truely heroic battles against masses of enemies, and treadmill shortening methods. Games with gameplay that people *like* don't need to railroad people into long, slow, upgrade processes. Leveling up is not a journey, or a game. The *game* is the game. And the designers consistently screw with the game for the sake of keeping the mindless leveling up in place.
[ QUOTE ]
BIOYA. I realize it's easier to give a full-mouth kiss to statesman's crimson star-spangled cheeks, than to notice that you're being shined on, but you might want to consider taking a break from mindlessly adoring someone's PR nonsense, and try something else, like vigorous butter churning.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think personal insults is where you lose all credibility.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
I couldn't give a damn what the devs think about me. Or anyone really. I sometimes go around ganking badge-hunters and squishies in siren's call with my stalker when there's no scrappers around to pwn, just for kicks. I'm one of the people that are pointed at for ruining PvP in CoX :P
That said, you'd love them to introduce more innovation-- but innovation takes time and effort to translate into code. They're taking longer than they want, and to me it's obvious that they're (they being the devs) frustrated with having to push back the various content that they want to add in. But the fact is, they are getting content.
Wanna know why CoV was focused on? Cause CoV was the new game which needed the content, needed the attention. And now that they've given that attention, hey are starting to focus on CoX as a whole. Perhaps they're being slower than you'd like.
I have no answer for that, other than get a grip on your patience. Good things DO come to those who wait. and if you get bored, cut off your subscription temporarilly, until something new is released,a nd then you can resubscribe and see if that reinvigorates your experience.
In the place where you were, flowers have been falling. Ice that had collected is thawing
That time, you were finishing my training. I was to tell no one, and let it remain thousand times a secret
The sound of a faraway drum invites the winter that is the ancient rhythm of sadness
[ QUOTE ]
Bother me that much? I didn't mention the game bothering me that much. What bothers me is that for every step forward, we get two steps backward for reasons which are ambiguous.
This 'we wrote a word somewhere' thing isn't real; it's pandering. Fine. Fun. Great. As opposed to so many other franchises which put the word 'hideous boils' up on their white boards first. You don't get an award for knowing that games should be fun.
So CoH is the best you've found so far. Same here. But, that's among a very small crowd. The number of MMOs currently available is still small compared to the overall game market, especially when you group them by broad similarities. There's at least a dozen which are basically Everquest with minor adjustments.
My problems with this game are very specific; How is it fun to do that same damn thing 100 times, when it's an automated process overlaying rolling dice? It's not. It's something I, and most people, can certainly be sucked into doing, but that's not why we play this game. Nobody, I think, would argue that pressing the same 2-5 buttons repeatedly when soloing or playing on a small team, is really what they're looking for in a game. It's not a game at all, it's a cash register with pretty lights. The innovative parts of this game have been consistently hemmed in; like freedom of movement, truely heroic battles against masses of enemies, and treadmill shortening methods. Games with gameplay that people *like* don't need to railroad people into long, slow, upgrade processes. Leveling up is not a journey, or a game. The *game* is the game. And the designers consistently screw with the game for the sake of keeping the mindless leveling up in place.
[/ QUOTE ]
First part of your post isn't worth replying to.
For the parts that are worth responding to. Yes, this is a bit of PR. Should I hold it against them that they want to get good publicity for having the game that many consider to be different and a welcome change from the other MMOs available? If it makes me a fan boy to say that, fine.
Look I agree with you, there are issues with the game. I wish the devs were as responsive as they were when the game launched, I wish there were less nerfs and more buffs when it came to balancing, I wish there was more focus on some of the issues that will directly effect my play style rather then PvP and crafting. Thing is I've lived through worse in other games. I recognize in a MMO not everything will benefit me. I'll make my observations in the appropriate threads so my opinion is known. However, I do like to occasionally offer up the fact that I do enjoy the game. Sorry if that sets you off. I'll go make a R U Healer thread to make sure you have something to keep you busy for the next few weeks.
Zapping, 50 storm/elec
Rain King, 50 ice/storm
Ard, 50 NB/SR
The rest of my lineup
Justice, Freedom and Virtue Servers
www.repeat-offenders.net
Avatar by Altoholic_Monkey!
[ QUOTE ]
My problems with this game are very specific; How is it fun to do that same damn thing 100 times, when it's an automated process overlaying rolling dice? It's not. It's something I, and most people, can certainly be sucked into doing, but that's not why we play this game. Nobody, I think, would argue that pressing the same 2-5 buttons repeatedly when soloing or playing on a small team, is really what they're looking for in a game. It's not a game at all, it's a cash register with pretty lights. The innovative parts of this game have been consistently hemmed in; like freedom of movement, truely heroic battles against masses of enemies, and treadmill shortening methods. Games with gameplay that people *like* don't need to railroad people into long, slow, upgrade processes. Leveling up is not a journey, or a game. The *game* is the game. And the designers consistently screw with the game for the sake of keeping the mindless leveling up in place.
[/ QUOTE ]
Is this all basically shorthand for "The devs closed my favorite exploit"? Because every time I hear this argument, it's from somebody who wants their I4 tanker back, or their pre-nerf Regen scrapper, or the old broken Smoke Grenade.
I've occasionally gotten bored with CoX and went over to Blizzard's playground for a change. Every time I come back to CoX inside a month, simply because this game does so many things right that no other MMO does. I'd argue that it's because Cryptic doesn't have a fixed mindset about The Way Things Are.
Monster grinding, camping, long travel times, mounts being restricted to the elite players; this stuff all exists because That's The Way Things Are in an MMO, and nobody's willing to break the mold because that's what everyone expects. It's a veritible heresy for a game to let you be flying inside a week of playing.
Me, I hope that more people see what CoX did, being fairly successful despite throwing out nearly every MMO preconception. More developers need to approach games without that sort of baggage. Recycle what works, but don't include the stuff that doesn't just because every other game has it.
Arc #41077 - The Men of State
Arc #48845 - Operation: Dirty Snowball
[ QUOTE ]
No game comes close to matching CoX in its combat engine and I bang my head against the keyboard when I see how new MMOs just continue to not get it and there seems no attempt to learn from CoH.
[/ QUOTE ]
Was just going on about that in my SG forum.
The sidekick system isn't simple and easy, I'm sure it takes a lot of code to keep things straight when you get sidekicked up 3 levels right in the middle of having your zombies crawl up out of the dirt. Still, other games should be using this system. It will need another name (apprentice, perhaps) but the basic system is a *MAJOR* plus to MMO gaming.
Honestly, I have trouble taking any MMO without a system like this seriously. If a friend of mine logs in, I expect to be able to play with them. And by "play" I do not mean "power-level them all night so they catch up on levels". But no other MMO has that, or even seems to be looking at it. (Or did EQ2 get something in?) CoX downright spoiled me! Am I not going to be able to play any other MMO until Cryptic pushes the Marvels out the door!?
[ QUOTE ]
First part of your post isn't worth replying to.
[/ QUOTE ]
and yet...
[ QUOTE ]
For the parts that are worth responding to. Yes, this is a bit of PR. Should I hold it against them that they want to get good publicity for having the game that many consider to be different and a welcome change from the other MMOs available? If it makes me a fan boy to say that, fine.
Look I agree with you, there are issues with the game. I wish the devs were as responsive as they were when the game launched, I wish there were less nerfs and more buffs when it came to balancing, I wish there was more focus on some of the issues that will directly effect my play style rather then PvP and crafting. Thing is I've lived through worse in other games. I recognize in a MMO not everything will benefit me. I'll make my observations in the appropriate threads so my opinion is known. However, I do like to occasionally offer up the fact that I do enjoy the game. Sorry if that sets you off. I'll go make a R U Healer thread to make sure you have something to keep you busy for the next few weeks.
[/ QUOTE ]
If genuine motivation is all it takes to be pristine, then why isn't mine equal to his? All I want to do is play a fun game--one which, at first, was a substantially different experience than what it's become--with an investment of time and effort in between. I've remained subscribed to this game, even when I didn't play it, precisely because I want it to succeed--but States gets constant pats on the back *anyway*.
The flippant comment about ruhelar is precisely the point--it's an imperfect universe, and saying the obvious might make me look bad, when there are so many innocent kittens out there just trying to live their kitten lives--but this is how the world works. In the grand scheme everybody has their innocent motivations. In the actual course of events, there's a negotiation that happens between conflicting parties. You call my legitimate grievance a tantrum, I call you fan boy, and then you bring up one of my fixations, and now I'm being pedantic. Etc etc. When we're done bouncing around, the final product is his impression of whether this game needs more substantial work or not--as far as I'm concerned, there's alot that needs to be done, at a basic level, to make this a great game. As far as he seems to be concerned, it's mission accomplished, and pass me some Marvel.
Leave the tantrum comment by the wayside next time, and we might have a worthwhile conversation, instead of mutual recrimination bracketing summaries.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Goddamnit. Please don't be so damned smug about that fun thing, when you've missed the mark in so many ways yourself. When you wrote that word up on the board you should have written 'caution: may be subjective' next to it, and used it to remind yourself not to judge your players for pursuing behaviors that you arbitrarily deem not to be fun. You put kill X tasks in the game, and then act surprised when people camp spawners.
UGh. I find it so frustrating when he trots out this 'we're so great' mentality. This game could have been the first *real* game MMO, instead it's become more canned, and more treadmill-like as time goes by.
[/ QUOTE ]
And yet you are back here on the boards and playing this game. I realize you enjoy throwing fits, but to be honest if the game bothers you that much take another break from it.
Sure, there are things I don't like about CoH, but having tried many MMOs, including recently trying the beta of the one mentioned by the OP, I don't see myself leaving here. For my playstyle and tastes, CoH is still the best I've found.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, I have to say that I am a little curious as to what States wrote under 'Fun' on that white board. I know, 'No unlockable costume pieces' and 'Firebase Zulu' was on there. 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
On the subject of travel powers, I can see how the OP can prefer them to mounts, but I think it's a problem that either are regarded as such a necessity. It's as if what's going on around the player isn't important or dynamic enough to him, and so the journey to the mission needs to be skipped.
[/ QUOTE ]
It isn't as if that's the whole point, in any game. I'm yet to meet any MMO where what's going on around you is dynamic enough to stop and say "ooh" "ahh". You do it the first time then every time after that its ho hum.
[/ QUOTE ]
Walking through the hollows, where you're likely to get killed at any moment by purple conning trolls or sneaking up out of the ground pumicites, is an example of a dynamic stroll at fairly slow speed. I actually enjoy it on occasion.
But in most such games, the travel time is wasted from the viewpoint of XP, at least. If a game came up with a good way to reward your character just as highly for the time spent traveling as for the time spent fighting/slaying monsters/defeating enemies/finishing missions - so that your travel time was interesting innately and also rewarded - people would not care so much if there were no travel powers or mounts.
That's why people camped in one place for 4 hours or more. It was challenging to get there and it was not a challenge that was rewarded. risk = reward was not respected (and still is not for folks wandering through the hollows!)
[ QUOTE ]
Everquest didn't have mounts or teleporters until years after the game was released.
[/ QUOTE ]
"WTB Spirit of the Wolf PST!"
I remember that. Spending gold to get a movement speed buff lol...
I almost miss Everquest :P (Almost.)
[ QUOTE ]
Also, a 'response' to no one in particular ... I see a few slams here and there against the fantasy genre. I feel like I should speak up for it a little, it is a great genre, very engaging, it sparks my imagination a lot. If there was a fantasy game that gave me incredible character customization, had a sidekicking system or something similar to allow me to actually play with my friends regardless of level, enabled a primarily soloing playstyle, and avoided all the boring behavior (such as endless hours of walking) that fantasy MMOs all seem to have, I would check it out with high hopes.
[/ QUOTE ]
My main issue with the fantasy genre is that it's so horrible over done by now.
Which is funny. I've always loved the fantasy genre. 10 (or so) years ago, it was a horribly neglected genre. There were perhaps a few games. And the only movie anyone could remember was Willow (or Dragonheart it you didn't mind risking getting beat up).
At some point, all that got turned on its head. And it was great, at first. But it's really getting old by now.
Thought for the day:
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."
=][=
[ QUOTE ]
Leave the tantrum comment by the wayside next time, and we might have a worthwhile conversation, instead of mutual recrimination bracketing summaries.
[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed
Zapping, 50 storm/elec
Rain King, 50 ice/storm
Ard, 50 NB/SR
The rest of my lineup
Justice, Freedom and Virtue Servers
www.repeat-offenders.net
Avatar by Altoholic_Monkey!
[ QUOTE ]
I've reached the sliver frisbee stage, where my game disc is about to be tested for aerodynamics.
[/ QUOTE ]
Bwhahahaha
I enjoyed reading your other post so I jumped at the chance to read this one. This quote made me, seriously, spit out my coffee. Thanks for the morning chuckle.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Everquest didn't have mounts or teleporters until years after the game was released.
[/ QUOTE ]
"WTB Spirit of the Wolf PST!"
I remember that. Spending gold to get a movement speed buff lol...
I almost miss Everquest :P (Almost.)
[/ QUOTE ]
I miss character names like:
Horridsows Foraplat
Friedchkn Baskit
8)
Well at least the SOWs lasted quite a while.
Upsen.
[ QUOTE ]
My main issue with the fantasy genre is that it's so horrible over done by now.
Which is funny. I've always loved the fantasy genre. 10 (or so) years ago, it was a horribly neglected genre. There were perhaps a few games. And the only movie anyone could remember was Willow (or Dragonheart it you didn't mind risking getting beat up).
At some point, all that got turned on its head. And it was great, at first. But it's really getting old by now.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, good point. I remember being a young D&D nerd and getting excited any time ANY movie came out that had a dragon or an elf in it. Actually I do remember some time ago when more started coming out and I said to myself, "You know, a lot of this stuff is crap, and really not worth seeing." Not that the genre is more or less crappy than any other; it's just that a certain percentage of any art produced is going to be crap. I like cartoons, but a lot of cartoons are crap. I like punk rock, but a lot of punk bands are crap. I was starved for anything D&Dish as a kid, so I couldn't afford to exercise a little judgement as to whether a given movie or game was crap.
It was the same deal in the early days of 3D MMOs. EverQuest was crap, but without any peers to compare it to, I couldn't really make that judgement. The 3D MMO is a really great idea, so I played many many hours of the only one available. Nowadays we can pick and choose between hundreds of them, so the cream will rise to the top.
I realize I kinda got off the tracks of the fantasy genre here. Sorry. Where was I trying to go with that? Oh yeah. I don't consider fantasy to really truly be overdone. It IS everywhere nowadays, and you can't swing a dead cat etc. But I no longer try every fantasy game just because it's a fantasy game, or see every fantasy movie just because it's a fantasy movie. I try to pick and choose the actual quality productions. So I'm not sick of the genre at all. YMMV. 
I'm pretty much with y'all. I've tried all the big games, but they turned out to be just so much smoke and lights.
Nothing currently out holds a candle to teaming and combat aspects of CoH/V, at least not in MMOs. I've played more "combat oriented" games as well, but the server stability and execution of the GUIs usually makes me wanna swallow a live muskrat. Did they honestly test some of these crap fests? They can't have, I won't believe it.
Anywho! Huxley has really piqued my interest, what with the FPS aspect of it as well as the setting. Mutants and laser rifles have been done before, but this could turn out to be pretty neat. I find myself hopping on Resident Evil 4 now and then just for a little gun play, so there is something to be said for the actual skill required in a good FPS.
We'll have to see if they avoid that whole "start you out in a generic zone with hundreds of other antisocial n00bs and no direction" thing. That will usually kill a game for me right out of the box. That and if it's ugly and highly uncustomizeable. 
So yeah! I doubt I'll be hanging up CoH anytime soon! Long's I've got the means to play. Way cheaper and healthier than a hard drug habit.
"I'm flying free with my beautiful butterfly wings!" ~ Randy Marsh
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I can run from a certain Bridge between talk folks and halflings to the main Tall Folk town and do so in under 10 minutes. That's one of the longest paths in the unnamed MMO and he's grossly exaggerating how slow it is.
Then again, he also didn't mention that you have fast travel available between major cities and a somewhat slower mount travel from town to town.
I also suppose he failed to mention that other forms of teleportation ARE available, just not at the level restricted section the unnamed MMO is at right now until it goes Live.
The bad part is... no one will listen to the facts I've posted and will only remember the untrue negatives the OP stated.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm listening! That's interesting. If travel isn't actually much worse than in Co*, then way to go, developers of that game! Sounds like camping is still an issue, but I'm willing to accept that the old time rotting carcass "travel problem" isn't actually all that bad in the new game. I'm still not especially eager to try it, at least until I hear about other features that will make me like it more than Co* ... and I guess this might not be the appropriate place to talk it way up, but feel free to PM me or post a link to some good resources.
In any case, it's good to hear that another developer has made some progress out of the mire of the Bad Old Ideas.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, I had a PM from a poster here and here's what I told him...
[ QUOTE ]
What struck me as really interesting while I was typing it up was that upon close examination, both games are REMARKABLY similar. The real major difference is the content / genre.
Fast Travel = Trams
Traits = Enhancements
Skills = Powers
Instances = Missions
It is there if people choose to look. The problem is, people tend to be afraid of change.
[/ QUOTE ]
CoH/V and the Unnamed MMO *ARE* very much alike. Moreso than people are giving credit for. Travel isn't bad. There are two towns in a certain race's starting area that are about 800 yards apart. Takes me about 2 minutes to run there without run buffs and that includes following the winding path and the bridge over a beautiful double waterfall and river.
Sure, we don't have personal travel powers at the low end in the Unnamed MMO, but we have access to "tram" travel as well as can either run or hoof it to the next town/zone. Even with some of the travel powers in CoH/V, it can still take a few minutes to get from the tram / zone entrance to the mission door. It's no different than CoH/V.
Plus as I mentioned, there are teleport skills available but not in the early portion of the game. When I say teleport, I mean Across Zone(s) teleport such as going from Zone 1 to Zone 4 because the skill is Return to Zone 4. The CoH/V analogue would be the Pocket D Teleporter... it teleports you to Pocket D from where ever you are currently at. One class in the unnamed MMO gets 4 or 5 of those plus one that recalls the user to the closest respawn point (For CoH, it'd be a recall to hospital).
I may keep my sub open here since I have a lifetime membership option with the unnamed MMO. Given that I stay with a MMO for at least 2 years (been here since Aug 04), the lifetime membership over there is a definite steal for me. Then I can keep paying for one MMO and play the other when I see fit / feel like it.
I simply took umbrage at the OP's starting post on this thread because it's a one sided diatribe on how X game is bad and horrific while those very same attributes are perfect here even when they are done the same way.
Virtue: multiple characters.
CoH/V: Woot! Maybe Fun is to be had once again.
Ack! RUN! Regen is glowing mean & green!
If it reduces you, it's a nerf.
If it buffs the mobs, it's challenge.
They are not the same.
[ QUOTE ]
Was also in that Beta that had to do with certain magical rings. Lots of slow walking around and spawn camping were definite turnoffs. You forgot another one that really did it for me though. The lack of character options. There were only like 5 different "classes" and everyone of class X was an exact clone of each other. Not just in appearance, but in skill. You didn't even get to choose which skills as you leveled, they were all set for you. Zero choice. Say goodbye to having a bunch of alts, there would be no point. Alts are something I love about CoX.
It was quite a shock coming from a game like this where for example not only can one defender can be very different from another from having different primary/secondaries. But even defenders of the same primary/secondary can be pretty different in what skills they choose.
[/ QUOTE ]
You never got into dyeing and crafting of armor / weapons, did you? There is plenty of character diversity to be had if one is willing to use it.
I've already got my first set of dye stuff. All I need now is just one more item to start making dyes so I can have a unique looking character.
No different than here where if I want to set up a 2nd costume, I need to run a mission to do it.
Virtue: multiple characters.
CoH/V: Woot! Maybe Fun is to be had once again.
Ack! RUN! Regen is glowing mean & green!
If it reduces you, it's a nerf.
If it buffs the mobs, it's challenge.
They are not the same.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The only problem with that snippet is that he must have been walking from one end of a zone to the other end. I've timed it before. I can run from a certain Bridge between talk folks and halflings to the main Tall Folk town and do so in under 10 minutes. That's one of the longest paths in the unnamed MMO and he's grossly exaggerating how slow it is.
Then again, he also didn't mention that you have fast travel (basically travel that is faster than using the Pocket D teleporter) available between major cities and a somewhat slower mount travel from town to town.
I also suppose he failed to mention that other forms of teleportation ARE available, just not at the level restricted section the unnamed MMO is at right now until it goes Live.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hmm, the fast travel costs 10 silver and at low levels that is to much. probably not an issue at higher levels but at lower ones it is very much an issue.
And I certainly got tired of the trudging back across the zone. It went something like this, go out and wend my way 3 - 8 minutes away from town hunt for awhile then either go back to see the quest giver to turn in the quest back to town or try and get one or two more done in the area. Then 3 - 8 minutes back to town. If I need to just sell and restock I might be in luck and a general sub town center might be nearby but if I need to level off across the zone I go. I swear I spent more time trudging back to the one side of any zone that it got tiresome.
I do want to like the game more than I do. I think the thing that kills it for me isn't the travel times. They are long but not as bad as a certain other game starting with V. What does it in for me is the elite mobs you have to fight to finish a number of quests, or special sub quests. Rather than being instanced having to que up in a line is not fun and frankly ruins my sense of immersion every time.
It is like if you needed to go fight a specific EB to finish a mission and had to get in line to do so.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, they changed Fast Travel. It's 1 silver from major town to major town. The inter town travel prices are atrocious though. They are still set at the old economy levels. Going from the starting town for one race to the next town 800 yards away is 10 Silver... yet I can make the trip from one major city to another for 1 silver each way.
I've heard that travel prices are going to get adjusted for the new economy once they iron out the loot stinginess from the last change.
Most of those Elites are on a fairly fast timer (2-5 minutes) if they are general surface spawn. The ones I run into regularly are in instances which is no big deal. Likewise, forming a team (can get up to 6 people on a team) also allows folks to breeze through a lot faster in those situations where you have to defeat an open spawn Elite.
I suspect though that many people are basing their impressions on the current level 1 to 15 restriction rather than on what goes on BEYOND level 15. I got up into the mid 30s during the closed beta and the game at level 20+ is wildly different and a heck of a lot more fun than it is in the level 15 and below. There's also a ton more story there in comparison too.
It's basically set up such that you get a taste of things to come and want more. Then when you choose to get more, you find it in spades and the cycle repeats.
Virtue: multiple characters.
CoH/V: Woot! Maybe Fun is to be had once again.
Ack! RUN! Regen is glowing mean & green!
If it reduces you, it's a nerf.
If it buffs the mobs, it's challenge.
They are not the same.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Was also in that Beta that had to do with certain magical rings. Lots of slow walking around and spawn camping were definite turnoffs. You forgot another one that really did it for me though. The lack of character options. There were only like 5 different "classes" and everyone of class X was an exact clone of each other. Not just in appearance, but in skill. You didn't even get to choose which skills as you leveled, they were all set for you. Zero choice. Say goodbye to having a bunch of alts, there would be no point. Alts are something I love about CoX.
It was quite a shock coming from a game like this where for example not only can one defender can be very different from another from having different primary/secondaries. But even defenders of the same primary/secondary can be pretty different in what skills they choose.
[/ QUOTE ]
You never got into dyeing and crafting of armor / weapons, did you? There is plenty of character diversity to be had if one is willing to use it.
I've already got my first set of dye stuff. All I need now is just one more item to start making dyes so I can have a unique looking character.
No different than here where if I want to set up a 2nd costume, I need to run a mission to do it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually - I consider it a little different. You visit Icon and do a mission to gain a second alternate costume. If I just want to 'dye' my armor/whatever in COH, I just visit Icon, and 'maybe' pay a fee (if I have no free tokens). No mission needed, no gathering items, no collecting/trading/whatever.
My memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
Also, my memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
"The tip of a shoelace is called an aglet, its true purpose is sinister." The Question
[ QUOTE ]
I suspect though that many people are basing their impressions on the current level 1 to 15 restriction rather than on what goes on BEYOND level 15. I got up into the mid 30s during the closed beta and the game at level 20+ is wildly different and a heck of a lot more fun than it is in the level 15 and below. There's also a ton more story there in comparison too.
It's basically set up such that you get a taste of things to come and want more. Then when you choose to get more, you find it in spades and the cycle repeats.
[/ QUOTE ]
FYI, you are seriously turning me off with this particular line. The words of a good friend of mine keep ringing in my head ... just level up to level X and then the game really gets fun. He tried to get me to stick it out to the high level game in EQ. He tried to get me to stick it out for the end game in WoW. Other games too. "You'll have fun later" is apparently a great sales pitch for a certain type of customer (like my friend). All I can see is "We want to stretch out your fun over thousands of hours to keep your subscription dollar". Give me a game that is fun from start to finish plzkthx.
No offense, and your enthusiasm is appreciated. Keep trying if you like.
[ QUOTE ]
Actually - I consider it a little different. You visit Icon and do a mission to gain a second alternate costume. If I just want to 'dye' my armor/whatever in COH, I just visit Icon, and 'maybe' pay a fee (if I have no free tokens). No mission needed, no gathering items, no collecting/trading/whatever.
[/ QUOTE ]
Precisely. It's nothingl ike gathering a bunch of materials to edit your character's looks.
NEVERMIND the fact that you can customize your look AT CREATION to the point that no other MMO has yet to mimick.
[ QUOTE ]
Fast Travel = Trams
[/ QUOTE ]
Trams = Free regardless, thus Trams > Fast Travel
Nitpicky perhaps, but important regardless.
[ QUOTE ]
CoH/V and the Unnamed MMO *ARE* very much alike.
[/ QUOTE ]
You act as if it isn't going to be obvious that there are similarities between two games of the same genre? No [censored], really?
But who cares about that? The OP made the statement that the game has nothing that's different that's good to pull people away from this one. I can find tons of similarities between Michael Jordan and Bil Gates. However, what they can do is vastly different regardless. And to make that analogy is giving the Unnamed MMO far more credit than it seems to deserve.
[ QUOTE ]
Sure, we don't have personal travel powers at the low end in the Unnamed MMO, but we have access to "tram" travel as well as can either run or hoof it to the next town/zone. Even with some of the travel powers in CoH/V, it can still take a few minutes to get from the tram / zone entrance to the mission door. It's no different than CoH/V.
[/ QUOTE ]
So basicly you're saying that CoX actually has larger areas and more exploring to do... oh good, another reason not to play that game Jokes aside...
[ QUOTE ]
Plus as I mentioned, there are teleport skills available but not in the early portion of the game. When I say teleport, I mean Across Zone(s) teleport such as going from Zone 1 to Zone 4 because the skill is Return to Zone 4. The CoH/V analogue would be the Pocket D Teleporter... it teleports you to Pocket D from where ever you are currently at. One class in the unnamed MMO gets 4 or 5 of those plus one that recalls the user to the closest respawn point (For CoH, it'd be a recall to hospital).
[/ QUOTE ]
And this makes it far different than you want to admit. Base portals for established groups means that you can go from one zone to any other zone that you've earned-- and not just you, anyone in the group. And these aren't too difficult to earn, either. Once earned, these portals are available to all the people in the group regardless of level (except level restricted zones, which are in a minority in CoH and don't exist in CoV).
Hell, CoV introduced customizable bases. You pick from a large number of styles for every section of the base, and you customize the floor levels, you put any of an insane number of decorations. You can put in chaingun turrets or explosive runes, storage for enhancements (further making them far different from traits in that they can be traded), inspirations, salvage. You can add in teleporters, but regardless of what you do, you can make the base your own base. you can make it look dark and gloomy, evil, magijcal, make the air look poisoned and green. You can make it an inconspicuous office complex or a set of old ruins where ancient ley magical lines meet.
Something which can't be done, in the Unnamed Game as of right now.
[ QUOTE ]
I simply took umbrage at the OP's starting post on this thread because it's a one sided diatribe on how X game is bad and horrific while those very same attributes are perfect here even when they are done the same way.
[/ QUOTE ]
Then obviously you didn't actually READ the post in question.
He complained that you didn't fight battles against REAL foes in the unnamed game until later in the game. This is completely unlike CoX-- on both sides. First mission I got as a natural scrapper going to atlas was fighting hellions, demon-worshipping traffickers of magical items whom are in an eternal war with the drug-trafficking Skulls, a death-worshipping gang. On the villain side, you fight snake people that stand up nearly eight feet tall with a tail nearly that long, wielding swords, claws, and vicious poisonous fangs.
He complained about hard to find objectives and bad directions from the quest givers. While there are some times that I've had a problem finding glowies, it's because I skipped over areas-- the maps in CoX are fairly easy to navigate and objectives relatively easy to find-- most of the time you don't really even need to search.
He complained about taking turns to do missions. No way NEAR what CoX does. Even with the new Abyss and Hive, you won't be taking turns at it.
he talks about sudden spawns of ambushes out of nowhere-- once again, this doesn't happen. Ambushes from CoH come running into the room from a different tone, rather than spawning into the room itself. You always hear a warning, and that gives you a bit more time to prepare (Even if it's not always enough).
Quite frankly, I wonder if you even know what the hell you're talking about, if you think that the problems he pointed out are in CoX. Have you REALLY played the other game, or this one for that matter... or did you just not read the post before you misjudged it?
In the place where you were, flowers have been falling. Ice that had collected is thawing
That time, you were finishing my training. I was to tell no one, and let it remain thousand times a secret
The sound of a faraway drum invites the winter that is the ancient rhythm of sadness
[ QUOTE ]
Goddamnit. Please don't be so damned smug about that fun thing, when you've missed the mark in so many ways yourself. When you wrote that word up on the board you should have written 'caution: may be subjective' next to it, and used it to remind yourself not to judge your players for pursuing behaviors that you arbitrarily deem not to be fun. You put kill X tasks in the game, and then act surprised when people camp spawners.
UGh. I find it so frustrating when he trots out this 'we're so great' mentality. This game could have been the first *real* game MMO, instead it's become more canned, and more treadmill-like as time goes by.
[/ QUOTE ]
And yet you are back here on the boards and playing this game. I realize you enjoy throwing fits, but to be honest if the game bothers you that much take another break from it.
Sure, there are things I don't like about CoH, but having tried many MMOs, including recently trying the beta of the one mentioned by the OP, I don't see myself leaving here. For my playstyle and tastes, CoH is still the best I've found.
Zapping, 50 storm/elec
Rain King, 50 ice/storm
Ard, 50 NB/SR
The rest of my lineup
Justice, Freedom and Virtue Servers
www.repeat-offenders.net
Avatar by Altoholic_Monkey!