[ QUOTE ]
What blows my mind is that Co* is a game about Superheroes and Supervillains pitted against each other, and there seems to be some contention that it should be only Player superheroes vs. Non-Player villains and vice versa.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is a very well stated, but its a complete and total misrepresentation of the most common complaint about PvP, and you very well know it.
PvE players have nothing against PvP per se. What they have is the urge to avoid unpleasant dinks who exist only to cause other people as much aggravation as they can for their own amusement.
That's not PvP, that's sadism. And its also commonly defended here in the PvP zones. As you also well know.
So don't pretend that PvE'ers are a bunch of wusses who are over-sensitive. On the contrary, its us... the PvPers... who need to clean up our collective acts and start acting like human beings instead of a pack of rabid chimpanzees.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What blows my mind is that Co* is a game about Superheroes and Supervillains pitted against each other, and there seems to be some contention that it should be only Player superheroes vs. Non-Player villains and vice versa.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is a very well stated, but its a complete and total misrepresentation of the most common complaint about PvP, and you very well know it.
PvE players have nothing against PvP per se. What they have is the urge to avoid unpleasant dinks who exist only to cause other people as much aggravation as they can for their own amusement.
That's not PvP, that's sadism . And its also commonly defended here in the PvP zones. As you also well know.
So don't pretend that PvE'ers are a bunch of wusses who are over-sensitive. On the contrary, its us... the PvPers... who need to clean up our collective acts and start acting like human beings instead of a pack of rabid chimpanzees.
[/ QUOTE ]
Dude likes dirty things I guess
By the way, he's just here for laughs. Don't take him too seriously. He might respond to you with long posts about irrelevant things that have nothing to do with the topic of the post.
Watch...
[ QUOTE ]
[I might as well address this. Not everything has to be immediately useful or whatnot to bring pleasure to a person. Hell, some people in the real world might have their bottlecap or keychain collections...nothing incredible but there's something tied to each.
For me, I can remember exactly how each of my alts got their badges...who I was teamed with, how long it took, whether it was a farm or I faceplanted in a zone, whether they were annoying...they're something you can do in your downtime, some of them involve combat, and they're available without interfering on other player activities. 
[/ QUOTE ]
Amen.
[ QUOTE ]
By the way, he's just here for laughs. Don't take him too seriously. He might respond to you with long posts about irrelevant things that have nothing to do with the topic of the post.
Watch...
[/ QUOTE ]
No, he's exactly right.
I'm mostly a PvE'er and a badge hunter. But on several occasions I've ventured into PvP zones and enjoyed them... for awhile. I actually got very good indeed in RV. But inevitably along comes some poo-monkeys who really ruin it for me and I leave the zone for a few months. Then I'll come back to PvP, because it really can be fun... only until another jackass ruins it once again.
The so-called PvP community in this game pisses and moans and complains that the PvP zones are empty, while at the same time behaving in ways that insure they stay that way.
"OK, first of all... Shut Up." - My 13-Year-Old Daughter
29973 "The Running of the Bulls" [SFMA] - WINNER of the Mighty Big Story Arc Contest !
- The Stellar Wind Orbital Space Platform
[ QUOTE ]
Dude likes dirty things I guess
[/ QUOTE ]
Thank you for posting that. Definitions 1 and 4 fit my point perfectly as to the people who tend to drive away PvE'ers from PvP.
[ QUOTE ]
By the way, he's just here for laughs. Don't take him too seriously. He might respond to you with long posts about irrelevant things that have nothing to do with the topic of the post.
[/ QUOTE ]
Speaking of... how is this part relevant to the topic of the post?
[ QUOTE ]
So don't pretend that PvE'ers are a bunch of wusses who are over-sensitive. On the contrary, its us... the PvPers... who need to clean up our collective acts and start acting like human beings instead of a pack of rabid chimpanzees.
[/ QUOTE ]
What is that supposed to mean? Humans are and can be a number of different things. I think we all are, actiing like humans. ???
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So don't pretend that PvE'ers are a bunch of wusses who are over-sensitive. On the contrary, its us... the PvPers... who need to clean up our collective acts and start acting like human beings instead of a pack of rabid chimpanzees.
[/ QUOTE ]
What is that supposed to mean? Humans are and can be a number of different things. I think we all are, actiing like humans. ???
[/ QUOTE ]
I meant act with a modicum of respect for one another. The people who give us a bad name and drive away the PvE'ers are the mooks who are only in it to bust up the other guy's fun as quickly and as cruelly as possible, laughing the whole time.
I believe that you can be a successful PvPer without acting like an [censored] about it. Unfortunately, the most visible members of our community disagree.
I've actually had people tell me that they had a right... A RIGHT... to treat other people like fecal matter when I asked them to stop being such a butthead.
Win... just be a gracious winner. And stop thinking you have "Mad Skillz" if all you're doing is ganking an opponent who can't fight back, because you don't. Any fool can shoot fish in a barrell.
Anyone that thinks that there are no PvPers that behave with respect for each other has been hanging out in the zones for way too long.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What blows my mind is that Co* is a game about Superheroes and Supervillains pitted against each other, and there seems to be some contention that it should be only Player superheroes vs. Non-Player villains and vice versa.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is a very well stated, but its a complete and total misrepresentation of the most common complaint about PvP, and you very well know it.
PvE players have nothing against PvP per se. What they have is the urge to avoid unpleasant dinks who exist only to cause other people as much aggravation as they can for their own amusement.
That's not PvP, that's sadism. And its also commonly defended here in the PvP zones. As you also well know.
So don't pretend that PvE'ers are a bunch of wusses who are over-sensitive. On the contrary, its us... the PvPers... who need to clean up our collective acts and start acting like human beings instead of a pack of rabid chimpanzees.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think you mean well Jack, but please allow me to point something out. Please read through the last 15 months of posts on these forums from this eye, which is that of someone who likes to pvp.
From that perspective, please watch the vast numbers of anti pvpers who troll and post here endlessly. Specifically, look for those whose goal is to remove pvp from this game.
You'll notice the metaphor that the number of posts is like grains of sand on a beach is no exaggeration. Notice that an equal number of trolling isn't going on and isn't being tolerated by the mods in a section of players such as Roleplayers. Then, literally go there and count the number of anti roleplayer activity that's been going over there in the past 15 months, literally as a mathematical comparsion.
Then please go back to your statement: [ QUOTE ]
"PvE players have nothing against PvP per se. What they have is the urge to avoid unpleasant dinks who exist only to cause other people as much aggravation as they can for their own amusement.
That's not PvP, that's sadism. And its also commonly defended here in the PvP zones. As you also well know.
So don't pretend that PvE'ers are a bunch of wusses who are over-sensitive. On the contrary, its us... the PvPers... who need to clean up our collective acts and start acting like human beings instead of a pack of rabid chimpanzees.
[/ QUOTE ]
Just once, please switch the words PVP and PVE, in your own point of view. Rather than perpetuating something that went completely irrational long ago, I'll humbly ask you not to feed the trolls.
This is becoming some form of endless generational conflict, in part because mods aren't smacking these forums enough and in part because no matter how tolerate or moderate someone is, they have a limit to how much irrational hate will be thrown at them.
That's true of both sides. However, the forums here are specifically designed for the PVP community. If you were to compare posts, what occurs here is as fair as the Roleplaying community being swamped by a number of posts being from people who hate Roleplaying. Then do it to any other community section, from the different servers, to discussions, to badges to anything else that the same people who come here, on the PVP forums, daily and throw venom. How would any other section feel if they were subjected to the same exact behavior, for 15 long months, with their own favorite sub section?
Psychology tells us everyone is crazy and 25% are cerifiable. There are dinks in every subsection of any group in the game or in real life. No large group has exceptions, not one.
There are plenty of PVPers that spend a large amount of time trying to community build. What you said is completely unfair to them, especially as they are already forced to endure a tremedous amount of crap from people whose behavior wouldn't be tolerated in such numbers on any other boards in this game. In real life, the same behavior in most industrial societies is normally defined as an -ism and normally is only tolerated so long before the law or something worse than the law corrects the malfunction. People subjected to such behavior become bitter and angry.
Keep in mind, before anyone says anything, this is the pvp forums. Once again, keep in mind, the anti-whatever behavior here that has been tolerated here for 15 months would not have been tolerated anywhere else. It literally breeds worse behavior on everybody's part.
This is becoming a chicken and the egg thing. It will only grow as long as people massively continue keep up the false perspective that they are the only victims here, even when they are obviously equally to blame.
There is nothing that forces anyone in this game to pvp. There is no real consequence to pvp in this game. If you compare this to something like Eve Online, where in a single moment from a single navigational error, a non pvper could lose 7 years of skills and everything on his ship in a split second from pvp, any of the complaints here comparititively are an absolute joke.
Should the anti pvp community ever win, you could expect the same thing here to happen that does with most pve games. The majority will leave, either because of pvp or because the majority of their friends left. The pve zones will be ghosttowns. High numbers pve content will be unplayable in 1-2 years. It's a killing the goose that laid the golden egg thing.
I doubt destroying the game is your goal Jack. Please stop feeding the trolls.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Guess what WOW had PVP from ground up day one DAOC which still has about the same subs as COX was built ground up with PVP
UO which is still going after like 10 years has PVP ground up.
None of them had it shoehorned in after the fact. COX PVP is going to do nothing for subs because it was shoehorn into a system that was not built for pvp.
Sorry since the empty arenas in I4 to what ever patch you want to talk about has had basically empty pvp zones
[/ QUOTE ]
yeah, that's why it would probably be a good thing if they came out with an expansion or maybe a new game with the CoH engine but specificly tuned around PvP
[/ QUOTE ]
qft. It's a hard pill to swallow guys, as I like pvp, but this playerbase will never be driven by pvp. The game would fundamentally have to be re-written from the ground up with balance in mind for that to happen.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
[ QUOTE ]
Anyone that thinks that there are no PvPers that behave with respect for each other has been hanging out in the zones for way too long.
[/ QUOTE ]
That is not what he said and you know it.
Bottom line is there ARE some idiots in the zones. I'm glad the arena allows you semi-exclude folks who act like that.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What blows my mind is that Co* is a game about Superheroes and Supervillains pitted against each other, and there seems to be some contention that it should be only Player superheroes vs. Non-Player villains and vice versa.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is a very well stated, but its a complete and total misrepresentation of the most common complaint about PvP, and you very well know it.
PvE players have nothing against PvP per se. What they have is the urge to avoid unpleasant dinks who exist only to cause other people as much aggravation as they can for their own amusement.
That's not PvP, that's sadism. And its also commonly defended here in the PvP zones. As you also well know.
So don't pretend that PvE'ers are a bunch of wusses who are over-sensitive. On the contrary, its us... the PvPers... who need to clean up our collective acts and start acting like human beings instead of a pack of rabid chimpanzees.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think you mean well Jack, but please allow me to point something out. Please read through the last 15 months of posts on these forums from this eye, which is that of someone who likes to pvp.
From that perspective, please watch the vast numbers of anti pvpers who troll and post here endlessly. Specifically, look for those whose goal is to remove pvp from this game.
You'll notice the metaphor that the number of posts is like grains of sand on a beach is no exaggeration. Notice that an equal number of trolling isn't going on and isn't being tolerated by the mods in a section of players such as Roleplayers. Then, literally go there and count the number of anti roleplayer activity that's been going over there in the past 15 months, literally as a mathematical comparsion.
Then please go back to your statement: [ QUOTE ]
"PvE players have nothing against PvP per se. What they have is the urge to avoid unpleasant dinks who exist only to cause other people as much aggravation as they can for their own amusement.
That's not PvP, that's sadism. And its also commonly defended here in the PvP zones. As you also well know.
So don't pretend that PvE'ers are a bunch of wusses who are over-sensitive. On the contrary, its us... the PvPers... who need to clean up our collective acts and start acting like human beings instead of a pack of rabid chimpanzees.
[/ QUOTE ]
Just once, please switch the words PVP and PVE, in your own point of view. Rather than perpetuating something that went completely irrational long ago, I'll humbly ask you not to feed the trolls.
This is becoming some form of endless generational conflict, in part because mods aren't smacking these forums enough and in part because no matter how tolerate or moderate someone is, they have a limit to how much irrational hate will be thrown at them.
That's true of both sides. However, the forums here are specifically designed for the PVP community. If you were to compare posts, what occurs here is as fair as the Roleplaying community being swamped by a number of posts being from people who hate Roleplaying. Then do it to any other community section, from the different servers, to discussions, to badges to anything else that the same people who come here, on the PVP forums, daily and throw venom. How would any other section feel if they were subjected to the same exact behavior, for 15 long months, with their own favorite sub section?
Psychology tells us everyone is crazy and 25% are cerifiable. There are dinks in every subsection of any group in the game or in real life. No large group has exceptions, not one.
There are plenty of PVPers that spend a large amount of time trying to community build. What you said is completely unfair to them, especially as they are already forced to endure a tremedous amount of crap from people whose behavior wouldn't be tolerated in such numbers on any other boards in this game. In real life, the same behavior in most industrial societies is normally defined as an -ism and normally is only tolerated so long before the law or something worse than the law corrects the malfunction. People subjected to such behavior become bitter and angry.
Keep in mind, before anyone says anything, this is the pvp forums. Once again, keep in mind, the anti-whatever behavior here that has been tolerated here for 15 months would not have been tolerated anywhere else. It literally breeds worse behavior on everybody's part.
This is becoming a chicken and the egg thing. It will only grow as long as people massively continue keep up the false perspective that they are the only victims here, even when they are obviously equally to blame.
There is nothing that forces anyone in this game to pvp. There is no real consequence to pvp in this game. If you compare this to something like Eve Online, where in a single moment from a single navigational error, a non pvper could lose 7 years of skills and everything on his ship in a split second from pvp, any of the complaints here comparititively are an absolute joke.
Should the anti pvp community ever win, you could expect the same thing here to happen that does with most pve games. The majority will leave, either because of pvp or because the majority of their friends left. The pve zones will be ghosttowns. High numbers pve content will be unplayable in 1-2 years. It's a killing the goose that laid the golden egg thing.
I doubt destroying the game is your goal Jack. Please stop feeding the trolls.
[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed with everything you said. The MAJORITY of pvpers, again I say MAJORITY are good people and play fair. Unfortunatly the reality is it just takes one idiot to drive a potential pvper away.
Also, I don't necessarily agree that pvp drives this game or pve. When xp is gainable from pvp then I you can say pvp firmly drives this game.
Currently there are no real tangible rewards for pvp. And no shivans and nukes do not count as far as I'm concerned. When there is a REAL tangible reward then I can agree that the pvp will drive this game. Fact of the matter is the pvp in this game needs to be improved before I can see it really driving this game.
If pve were removed today I don't think the pvp could sustain it on its own.
Both are a symbiotic relationship that exist together.
Thankfully it looks like the devs are taking the pvp game seriously (or at least starting to). What I think they need to do is make changes in the pvp game for balance while leaving the pve game as is, WHEN IT IS POSSIBLE. Sometimes a change might need to be made that affects pve for pvp's sake, I'm fine with that. Also sometimes a change might need to be made pve side that affects pvp. I'm fine with that.
As far as I'm concerned its all one game.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Guess what WOW had PVP from ground up day one DAOC which still has about the same subs as COX was built ground up with PVP
UO which is still going after like 10 years has PVP ground up.
None of them had it shoehorned in after the fact. COX PVP is going to do nothing for subs because it was shoehorn into a system that was not built for pvp.
Sorry since the empty arenas in I4 to what ever patch you want to talk about has had basically empty pvp zones
[/ QUOTE ]
yeah, that's why it would probably be a good thing if they came out with an expansion or maybe a new game with the CoH engine but specificly tuned around PvP
[/ QUOTE ]
qft. It's a hard pill to swallow guys, as I like pvp, but this playerbase will never be driven by pvp. The game would fundamentally have to be re-written from the ground up with balance in mind for that to happen.
[/ QUOTE ]
I disagree, i think the imbalances are just as much of a problem in PvE. People just get more frustrated at the nature of PvP, and that it is actually challenging.
Eventually people who level slow, or run through the content at a snails pace will catch up, and get bored like the rest of us. The PvP engine in this game is so superior to other games its such a shame it isnt utilized more. As far as balance goes, its not to bad in large teams. Sure, some powersets need some attention, however they can be made to work with a different set of rules for PvP.
Example, taking away blasters 30% unresisted dmg, but giving sets like AR /Fire/Ice/Devices, TA Etc a small boost of unresisted dmg to be on par with fire/ice, and /energy /electric.
Tankers and scrappers with underused melee can also get similiar bonus, so that their overall dmg is on par with EM. I wouldnt tone down EM because it really isnt overpowered in team PvP.
These are examples, and their are many more...basically all the devs have to do is give a reason to bring the underused powersets and at's into PvP. Its all in the numbers and CAN be done if they so took the time to do it.
There would be no re-writing or anything like that. The overall mechanics are good, fast paced, and just need some fine tuning.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Guess what WOW had PVP from ground up day one DAOC which still has about the same subs as COX was built ground up with PVP
UO which is still going after like 10 years has PVP ground up.
None of them had it shoehorned in after the fact. COX PVP is going to do nothing for subs because it was shoehorn into a system that was not built for pvp.
Sorry since the empty arenas in I4 to what ever patch you want to talk about has had basically empty pvp zones
[/ QUOTE ]
yeah, that's why it would probably be a good thing if they came out with an expansion or maybe a new game with the CoH engine but specificly tuned around PvP
[/ QUOTE ]
qft. It's a hard pill to swallow guys, as I like pvp, but this playerbase will never be driven by pvp. The game would fundamentally have to be re-written from the ground up with balance in mind for that to happen.
[/ QUOTE ]
I disagree, i think the imbalances are just as much of a problem in PvE. People just get more frustrated at the nature of PvP, and that it is actually challenging.
Eventually people who level slow, or run through the content at a snails pace will catch up, and get bored like the rest of us. The PvP engine in this game is so superior to other games its such a shame it isnt utilized more. As far as balance goes, its not to bad in large teams. Sure, some powersets need some attention, however they can be made to work with a different set of rules for PvP.
Example, taking away blasters 30% unresisted dmg, but giving sets like AR /Fire/Ice/Devices, TA Etc a small boost of unresisted dmg to be on par with fire/ice, and /energy /electric.
Tankers and scrappers with underused melee can also get similiar bonus, so that their overall dmg is on par with EM. I wouldnt tone down EM because it really isnt overpowered in team PvP.
These are examples, and their are many more...basically all the devs have to do is give a reason to bring the underused powersets and at's into PvP. Its all in the numbers and CAN be done if they so took the time to do it.
There would be no re-writing or anything like that. The overall mechanics are good, fast paced, and just need some fine tuning.
[/ QUOTE ]
I disagree. It takes a lot more than fine tuning. Unless they plan to have an issue of nothing more than pvp-focused changes (which I don't see them EVER doing) then it would take some serious work. And I would tone down EM, as I do think for some it IS overpowered. (A dev has already stated that they believe it IS overpowered in pvp btw. I'll have to find the post.) That right there is part of the problem. No two pvpers will ever agree totally on what needs to be balanced. I assume its that way in a dev team as diverse as we have. Hell if you read the pvp forums there is disagreement as to wether inspirations are overpowered. BTW, they aren't as far as I'm concerned.
Also I fear any tweaking that this dev team does. Until recently they have been known for OVER tweaking. It would have to be done very carefully.
And the imablance isn't as big a deal in a part of the game where you are fighting mindless AI. Whatever changes are made to pvp I think they should keep them as separate from pve as possible.
And challenging is open to interpretation. If I can build a fotm and start to pwn, that's not really challenge, that's just picking the right build.
In general I agree, there does need to be balancing all around. But as to what exactly needs to be balanced is where many would disagree.
Also the reason why i don't think pvp will ever drive this game is mainly because there are no real tangilbe rewards for it. It doesn't open up new powers, doesn't make you better at anything anyone else does. At the end of the day its just pride in your ability to play the game that's it. For a lot of people that's just not enough.
I would be open to REAL rewards for pvp. What that would be is where I'm stuck on. (And no I don't see shivans and nukes as serious rewards.)
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
real rewards for PvP are being worked on by the PvP event committee.
While PvP doesnt drive this game, it eventually will have to if the Devs do not put out enough content per issue to keep folks busy and entertained.
I think its lame that i pay 15 bucks a month for content that takes me 2 weeks to go through. If it wasn't for PvP, i wouldnt be here, and neither would a lot of other ppl. I dont know if you noticed it, but the lower end PvP is actually growing while the Higher end is filtering out. I think that is because a lot of ppl are looking for something else to do.
[ QUOTE ]
real rewards for PvP are being worked on by the PvP event committee.
While PvP doesnt drive this game, it eventually will have to if the Devs do not put out enough content per issue to keep folks busy and entertained.
I think its lame that i pay 15 bucks a month for content that takes me 2 weeks to go through. If it wasn't for PvP, i wouldnt be here, and neither would a lot of other ppl. I dont know if you noticed it, but the lower end PvP is actually growing while the Higher end is filtering out. I think that is because a lot of ppl are looking for something else to do.
[/ QUOTE ]
Which is why I think pvp IN ITS CURRENT STATE cannot sustain this game on its own.
If the higher people are filtering out, they are also taking their low level alts with them.
ALOT needs to be done (which should have been being done all along--but I'm not going to whine about that) to pvp before I ever see it as being able to sustain this game on its own.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Anyone that thinks that there are no PvPers that behave with respect for each other has been hanging out in the zones for way too long.
[/ QUOTE ]
That is not what he said and you know it.
Bottom line is there ARE some idiots in the zones. I'm glad the arena allows you semi-exclude folks who act like that.
[/ QUOTE ]
The worst griefing I've ever experienced has been in the PVE game. PVP at least gives me the opportunity to fight back.
Griefing I've received in PVE:
-Lowbie TP-from-up-high fun before they gave us the TP team prompt
-TP'd into spots I couldn't get out of until someone came to rescue me
-Doing an influence exchange and the guy took my million then ran off
-Stuck to the bottom of a GM's foot as some smacktard ran nearby GM's over me.
-Overwhelmed by stampeding Nemesis that had been herded up by a Fire tanker on the docks of PI....repeatedly.
I could go on....but you get the point.
PVP zones are not the exclusive domain of idiots. Just idiots with better travel powers.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Anyone that thinks that there are no PvPers that behave with respect for each other has been hanging out in the zones for way too long.
[/ QUOTE ]
That is not what he said and you know it.
Bottom line is there ARE some idiots in the zones. I'm glad the arena allows you semi-exclude folks who act like that.
[/ QUOTE ]
The worst griefing I've ever experienced has been in the PVE game. PVP at least gives me the opportunity to fight back.
Griefing I've received in PVE:
-Lowbie TP-from-up-high fun before they gave us the TP team prompt
-TP'd into spots I couldn't get out of until someone came to rescue me
-Doing an influence exchange and the guy took my million then ran off
-Stuck to the bottom of a GM's foot as some smacktard ran nearby GM's over me.
-Overwhelmed by stampeding Nemesis that had been herded up by a Fire tanker on the docks of PI....repeatedly.
I could go on....but you get the point.
PVP zones are not the exclusive domain of idiots. Just idiots with better travel powers.
[/ QUOTE ]
Point is you can get away from all of that PVE greifing.
You can't get away from the idiot in a pvp zone if you wish to to pvp in the zone. The griefing in PVE is nothing compared to pvp as far as I'm concerned.
You can't really drive someone out of a pve zone as then you'd be driving them out of the game. Driving someone out of a pvp zone is only driving them out of pvp, which is what we all don't want.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
[ QUOTE ]
Anyone that thinks that there are no PvPers that behave with respect for each other has been hanging out in the zones for way too long.
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree, which is why I didn't argue that there were none. I said that the problem was that the poo monkeys are (and will likely continue to be) the most visible members of our communities.
[ QUOTE ]
Agreed with everything you said. The MAJORITY of pvpers, again I say MAJORITY are good people and play fair. Unfortunatly the reality is it just takes one idiot to drive a potential pvper away.
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And as I have already pointed out, when a PvE'er looks at PvP, he doesn't see the community-builders because the poo monkeys are making all the noise and gaining all the attention.
The PvE'ers aren't going to band together to make PvP more novice-friendly by putting leashes on the jerks... they're just going to walk away with the opinion that, because the loudest guys in the room are jerks, we're all jerks.
No, its up to us to police our own community. The problem is people who either a) see nothing wrong with the jerks, or b) see it all as an attitude problem on the part of the PvE'ers rather than as a problem on both sides.
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As far as I'm concerned its all one game.
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QFT
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PVP zones are not the exclusive domain of idiots.
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You are trying to refute a point that no one was making.
Ok just something interesting to note. I don't think PVP is as important as you say, because as several people here mentioned... The pvp areas are almost always empty... Now heres the interesting part... I tried pvp, but I personally find it annoying in the idea that in coX you find out that there are only so many powersets and setups that are really at all good for pvp. I have experimented with all sorts of at's and powersets, and well, lets just say only some of those excel at pvp, and the rest are mostly pve. And some of the pvp excelling powersets also excel at pve... so the game is way more balanced for pve, as it has been since the arena opened. If it gets a little more balanced, I might just join in on all this pvp fun, but until then... I"m pve all the way.
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Originally Posted by Galactoman
Poor Coyote... I've always wondered what he did to piss off Statesman badly enough to earn himself a lifetime of telling newbies to punch sick people...
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Ooohhhh Snap - 50th level Fire/Kinetic Controller - Guardian
Frigid Hottie - 50th level Fire/Cold Controller - Guardian
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Point is you can get away from all of that PVE greifing.
You can't get away from the idiot in a pvp zone if you wish to to pvp in the zone. The griefing in PVE is nothing compared to pvp as far as I'm concerned.
You can't really drive someone out of a pve zone as then you'd be driving them out of the game. Driving someone out of a pvp zone is only driving them out of pvp, which is what we all don't want.
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Actually, you are wrong. You can't avoid griefing in the PVE world any differenty than in the PVP world. In all the cases I listed, I had to leave the zone and go somewhere else as I had NO WAY to fight back at the griefers doing it. I was a blaster, the guy was a fire tanker and he had aggro'd dozens of critters on top of me...I had no choice but to go play elsewhere. NO WAY I could retaliate against him. In PVP, I've the option to fight back or flee. My option in PVE is to flee.
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Ok just something interesting to note. I don't think PVP is as important as you say, because as several people here mentioned... The pvp areas are almost always empty... Now heres the interesting part... I tried pvp, but I personally find it annoying in the idea that in coX you find out that there are only so many powersets and setups that are really at all good for pvp. I have experimented with all sorts of at's and powersets, and well, lets just say only some of those excel at pvp, and the rest are mostly pve. And some of the pvp excelling powersets also excel at pve... so the game is way more balanced for pve, as it has been since the arena opened. If it gets a little more balanced, I might just join in on all this pvp fun, but until then... I"m pve all the way.
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Don't confuse a low popualation in a PVP zone for anything other than those folks are grinding up there next PVP toon. We have to lvl too. Further many PVP minded folks play on several servers and go from server to server PVP zone to PVP zone to find the fight that intrests them most.
Freedom
Mors Pedes - 50 MA/Regen Scrapper
Victory
Terra Tron - 20 Stone M/Invuln Brute
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PVP isn't optional for COX's long term survival. The PVE is stale and most people in the anti pvp crowd turn to badge hunting just to keep themselves entertained. Most of the people I talked to had servers that went through a shock when the zone bugs effectively shut down pvp on most servers from november to february. Most people stopped logging in and serveral people quit, who are only now coming back. Since COX is a game of many alts, these people turned out to be a lot of toons people had known in other venues.
On one of the first four pages on this thread someone brought up that SWG had been pvp centric as it's end game and had then switched to pve for a bit. They incorrectly assumed that's what hurt that game. By contrast, in 2003, SWG had the biggest openning of any MMORPG which it lost by being eclipsed by WOW. It's numbers dropped overnight and half it's servers closed by becoming a grind game with Jedi and the CU. It numbers were harmed even worse by becoming even more PVE centric NGE. SWG had to suck up that PVP paid the bills to begin regrowing now.
While approaching 9 million paying subscribers, which is more than the Nelson rating of most tv shows, WOW has servers that are labeled PVE and Roleplaying, which have pvp zones and have pvp hot options. Eve Online, MXO, Guildwars, COX, Vanguard, and every other game have the pvp components. Warhammer, Age of Conan, Gods & Heroes: Rome Rising, Star Trek Online, Marvel, DC, Firefly Online, and World of Darkness Online, are being pre built with PVP in mind and that's every major game being released from 2007-2009.
PVP pays the bills. PVE does not.
That's not me saying that. That's the entire video game industry saying that. They are saying that now. They are saying that through 2010 and quite possibly beyond.
In fact, PVE does the opposite of pay the bills. PVE only develops a core of players that burn through 3 month of development in a weekend. Does that make them happy? Not at all, they go on to cry on whatever forum board that another 3 months of development can't be done instantly to stop their boredom.
As much as the anti pvp crowd might stalk these forums and scream endlessly in the throws of obsessive compulsive disorder that they don't like pvp in this game. This game will have to have it and balance it to survive.
If the developers of this game ever get silly enough to listen to the screams of the anti pvp crowd, this game will have its life support plug pulled much sooner. Right now, without the balance issues being fixed, this game is expected to only edge out a suvivable profit by the time Marvel and DC come out. Paradoxically, NCSoft is developing Marvel and I'll bet real money it's being required to be absolutely balanced from the beginning.
PVP creates long time rivalries. PVP creates player driven content. PVP communities are the group that stay with a game for years in the highest numbers.
You might believe in your heart pvp doesn't pay the bills. But all the industrial side market research for the past two years says that you are saying the world is flat.
Here is your proof from just one major developer, watch all 7:26 minutes: http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZOTRjWGxmjI
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Agreed. All.
It's what MANY of us have been preachin to the dev's and the general player base for years and years.
All of my pals that were 100% pve have LONG since moved on from this game, as the pve content go boring, naturally. You can only experience the 1 to 50 game so many times before you realize that it's nothing more than a photo copy of what you did the last time...
Now, my pals that were more pvp centric, are still around and hoping for new pvp content and fixes. Even those that have left still check back in from time to time to see if pvp has been given any love.....I think that says something.