[ QUOTE ]
Our devs' vision is just fine for you & you may gladly follow them wherever they take the game. However, some folks aren't as happy with some of the decisions they've made, and it's a privilege to add my voice where appropriate. It doesn't make us wrong. It makes us different and no less credible than you.
[/ QUOTE ]
Its a completely different animal to say you aren't happy with travel power suppression from saying I don't like this change and its all the fault of X. I don't know many people who are happy with suppression, but it allowed something they have consistently (and well before PvP existed here) squashed, which is leveling faster than the designers intended. The developers have modified everything from Epic power's to mob's resistance and behavior (DA) to reduce leveling speeds when they thought it was excessive.
Thorizdin
Lords of the Dead
Old School Legends
[ QUOTE ]
Its a completely different animal to say you aren't happy with travel power suppression from saying I don't like this change and its all the fault of X...
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, it is. Fortunately, I've covered both bases. To remove all ambiguity, I'm not happy with travel power suppression and I believe PvP jousting is the reason it was implemented.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
slower fights
[/ QUOTE ]
Absolutely not. The speed is the #1 ingredient keeping me and the majority of PvP'ers I know in the game. When people talk about how innovative CoX PvP the speed is usually forming the core of that opinion.
If I wanted slow I wouldn't have quit WoW PvP. The day I find myself running across Siren's using Sprint and Fitness (as the norm, not b/c I'm debuffed) is the day I quit CoX as well.
Give an Arena option to completely turn off travel powers.
[/ QUOTE ]
/qft. Arcana, I think you are a very smart problem and I like most of your ideas. But I think your idea of slowing down pvp in coh is off the wall.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
IME, the only time I have short battles is either in the Arena where the time contstraint forces the action and you have two people who want to fight a priori, or against go-for-broke blasters or people who just aren't very good at PvP.
I recall a fight against a BS/Regen in Warburg that took me 35 minutes to finally beat him and it was a monument to patience and tactical planning and execution.
[/ QUOTE ]
I have to agree (for the most part) with Mieux here. PvP combat is not a series of insta kills when the player's skill level is close to being even. When high skill team PvP groups have a match, the total kill count is often below 30 and its not uncommon to see matches where neither team gets into double digit kills in 10 or 20 minute matches. These are groups that would get over a hundred kills against an inexperienced team. I don't agree that the arena causes short battles.
[/ QUOTE ]
/qft, and from observation. Watching your old sg'smatches T_L, I've seen arena matches that are certainly not short if they opponents are skilled.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
[ QUOTE ]
Penalty-free travel powers substantially skew the risk vs reweard in PvE.
[/ QUOTE ]
How?
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
[ QUOTE ]
I strongly believe that just because they were called travel powers shouldn't imply they should only have been restricted for travel use. Travel Suppression was a mistake made long ago that some folks either just don't remember or care about anymore, apparently. I do. 
[/ QUOTE ]
They were never called "travel" powers until after suppression was added. Prior to that they were called "Advanced Movement" powers and the manual still uses that term.
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
slower fights
[/ QUOTE ]
Absolutely not. The speed is the #1 ingredient keeping me and the majority of PvP'ers I know in the game. When people talk about how innovative CoX PvP the speed is usually forming the core of that opinion.
If I wanted slow I wouldn't have quit WoW PvP. The day I find myself running across Siren's using Sprint and Fitness (as the norm, not b/c I'm debuffed) is the day I quit CoX as well.
Give an Arena option to completely turn off travel powers.
[/ QUOTE ]
/qft. Arcana, I think you are a very smart problem and I like most of your ideas. But I think your idea of slowing down pvp in coh is off the wall.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's an interesting idea, but I dislike it as well. If they slowed down combat or PvP, I'd quit as well. Suppression irks me enough as it is. There are 3 things that keep me in this game and make me laugh at everything else out there:
(In order)
Beauty - of the game world, costumes, powers and animations
Speed - of the combat in both PvE and PvP
Power - being able to take on multiple foes at once feels amazing, and having a "god mode" power later on makes me smile
[ QUOTE ]
If they slowed down combat or PvP, I'd quit as well.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't threaten to quit, and I don't claim to represent anyone's opinion but mine in this regard, but if MUO has combat that lasts more than three seconds, that will be very attractive to me. I would rather combat be designed like a poker game than a hand of blackjack, which is what CoH combat currently is.
My longest running issue with CoH is that I would rather kill 100 tough villains that take minutes to kill and then level, than mow down eight thousand blades of grass.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If they slowed down combat or PvP, I'd quit as well.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't threaten to quit, and I don't claim to represent anyone's opinion but mine in this regard, but if MUO has combat that lasts more than three seconds, that will be very attractive to me. I would rather combat be designed like a poker game than a hand of blackjack, which is what CoH combat currently is.
My longest running issue with CoH is that I would rather kill 100 tough villains that take minutes to kill and then level, than mow down eight thousand blades of grass.
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree with the sentiment (at least in PvP) but again, I think this happens now. Its only in mismatches that it doesn't. A FF/Rad Defender trying to solo in SC is going to be chewed up pretty quickly when he goes against most of the non-support villains, at least from a statistical point of view. He or she certainly won't have a good kill to death ratio. A good player will generally not try and solo with a support character, but instead look for a team and provide a tremendous amount of support. On the other hand, a good player with a BS or Spines / Regen Scrapper can rack up a good kill to death ratio because he can pick off the people trying to solo with squishies in relative safety. The same is largely true of Stalkers and carefully played Blasters. (Brutes and Tanks can play safely solo, but tend to lack the burst damage to kill much.)
Thorizdin
Lords of the Dead
Old School Legends
I dunno Thorizdin, I can remember long fights off the top of my head since they have been so few.
Usually you get spiked within 30-40 seconds of entering an Arena map or zone, then you run or hope your support can keep you alive.
I would get a lifetime, yearly sub to this game if fights happened where it took close to the length of a 10 minute match for one kill to be scored. Or if fights were actually two people squaring off and pounding on each other until you at the keyboard got exhausted or it just got so boring you flipped a coin or something lol.
Unfortunately, thanks to all the unresisted stuff there isn't much that could lead to that unless you're playing an Ice/EM tank or something similar. :/
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
Infinity Villains
Champion, Pinnacle, Virtue Heroes
[ QUOTE ]
I dunno Thorizdin, I can remember long fights off the top of my head since they have been so few.
Usually you get spiked within 30-40 seconds of entering an Arena map or zone, then you run or hope your support can keep you alive.
I would get a lifetime, yearly sub to this game if fights happened where it took close to the length of a 10 minute match for one kill to be scored. Or if fights were actually two people squaring off and pounding on each other until you at the keyboard got exhausted or it just got so boring you flipped a coin or something lol.
Unfortunately, thanks to all the unresisted stuff there isn't much that could lead to that unless you're playing an Ice/EM tank or something similar. :/
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't want long and boring (no one's health bar is even moving), I want long and interesting, as in at the five minute mark, its still not certain who's going to win at the ten minute mark, but you know one of you will by then (and ten minutes is probably excessive except in an arena match where both players actually explicitly want such a fight: I was thinking on a timescale of 90-180 seconds, enough to defuse the alpha strike to a moderate advantage, not an overwhelming one).
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[ QUOTE ]
I don't want long and boring (no one's health bar is even moving), I want long and interesting, as in at the five minute mark, its still not certain who's going to win at the ten minute mark, but you know one of you will by then (and ten minutes is probably excessive except in an arena match where both players actually explicitly want such a fight: I was thinking on a timescale of 90-180 seconds, enough to defuse the alpha strike to a moderate advantage, not an overwhelming one).
[/ QUOTE ]
That's exactly what happens when skill level is similar _and_ you're not talking about 1v1's between a support character and a high damage character.
The current mechanics work quite well, given that the first kill in most high skill level arena seldom occurs within the first 2 minutes.
To Neuronia, don't want to see matches that take 10 minutes to get one kill, and I'll have to say that if you're getting spiked in the first few seconds I'd say you're falling victim to be being in a mismatch. Yes, its possible for a Blaster or a Stalker to load up on Reds and go for a two shot, but you should be ready for that, after all you're inspiration tray is the same size.
Thorizdin
Lords of the Dead
Old School Legends
I've been meaning to respond to this...
[ QUOTE ]
What I was referencing is actually a concept that the devs originally had in the plan for CoH 1.0: combat stances.
[/ QUOTE ] In reality, the game already posses combat stances. It isn't a coded construct, but an inherent aspect of tactics. If I want to play defensively, I leave on my travel power, don't attack, and use terrain to minimize my exposure. If I want to go on the offenseive, I do things like hit Hasten, BU, pop Rages, etc, and generally use less mobility in order to maximize DPS. Imposing actual stance constructs is unnecessary.
What I do agree with in principle is the need to have more circumstancial powers. Elude use to be exactly that kind of power....it was in effect, a Defensive Stance power. But the devs have taken that away. Unyielding Stance was similar. Using the power had severe tactical advantages and disadvantages.
Now, I'm not saying the changes to those powers were a net negative, but it revealed a very important psychological aspect of power set design:
People don't like circumstancial powers unless there is an overcompensating benefit.
Part of that assessment is undoubtedly affected by comparaing powers against powers in other sets. When I first read about Elude (the version where you couldn't attack) in the game manual, I immediately thought that this is a cool power and is consistent with my concept of when Spiderman is trying to get away. It'll be neat to pop Elude and escape, or make it to a door safely, so on and so forth. However, when I started playing the game, you can't just toggle Elude on and off. It's on...and it stays on. This is severly limiting from a tactical perspective. In addition, the other sets had no need of such a pure defensive power. There was no situation where Elude was critical to the missions success. The game didn't offer any context in which Elude (wiithout the ability to attack) offered an overwhelming or even a substantially important tactical advantage. And here's what made it worse. Other comparable tier 9's like US and MoG, allowed people to attack. Here is my "Oh s**t!!" power and so what? I'm the only who has a power like this and it turns out to be comparatively worthless. Great in concept, lousy in practice.
The point it not to criticize the devs for their initial design decisions, but to point out that this game, does not really reward anything but the ability to defeat your enemies. People won't embrace "Defenseive" stances so long as there is no PvE reason to have them. People simply run away since there is no mission that I can recall where you simply need to survive for a given amount of time to win.
[ QUOTE ]
Combat stances change the equation somewhat. Even if you've fought the same person ten times before...
[/ QUOTE ] You're suggesting that Stances would allow someone to force the other person to respond tactically, that Stances should be outcome determinative. If not, then who cares what stance you use? In fact, you say this here:
[ QUOTE ]
Firing an opener and running gains you no significant knowledge, because that stance can be reset periodically.
[/ QUOTE ]
But this isn't going to accomplish what you think it will...because this already exists. Ultimately, your suggestion still results in a fixed, finite set of options. As such, experienced PvPers will intuitively learn the performance boundaries. Either I will be able to defeat you in pure defensive mode or I can't or vice versa, because if you can't defeat me, you'll switch over and so will I. We haven't gained anything.
In fact, we already have that situation now. When I fight /Fire brutes or /Inv Tankers, they can basically just go pure defensive by putting HF/DP on auto, using Aid Self when ever it recharges, and making sure they never run out of endo. Similarly, I can do the same with Touch of Fear and Siphon Life. Avoid attacking except to heal and Fear the opponent. Ergo, to beat an /Inv tanker, I already have to be able to defeat him in his "Defensive Stance" and he has to be able to beat me in mine.
The game has already provided us with "Combat Stances," they just aren't artifically linked to buttons. What we have now, provides a far more fluid transition between defensive and offensive extremes with infinite variation between them. More importantly, I would vote against such an imposition. It runs the risk of unnecessarily limiting tactical flexibility and creativity.
The other thing I read in your suggestion is this idea that we need the ability to reset the battle. I obviously disagree with that.
If you want to create more situationally, PvP-centric powers, I'm listening, but they had better be useful in the context of PvE or people will complain about useless powers....and frankly, creating new powers primarily for PvP is expensive from a development perspective.
[ QUOTE ]
Part of the problem with 1v1 combat, or even teamed combat to a certain degree, is that at some point, there are really only two things a player can do to alter their effectiveness in a material way: hop around, and shoot in a different order.
[/ QUOTE ] This is just not an accurate assesemnt of PvP, in my experience. I think this exposes the crux of the problem and perhaps provides insight as to why many people don't like PvP. No offense, but PvP is far more tactically complex than what you've described. You're attempting to compress all uses of powers as a modification of firing order. Timing....is the critical element...not firing order. I can even use the same firing order but achieve dramatically different results based on when I excecute my attacks. When I use BU and Hasten is a tactical consideration and to simplify it as a change in firing order is to demonstrate a fundamental disconnect with how PvP works. Such a categoriztion will lead you to false assessments on the nature of PvP.
In addition, you've completely ignored envorinment as well as inspiration use. Even in the Arena, you can achieve dramatically different outcomes by using terrain. I have played lame duck through most of an Arena battle and then popped my four Rages at the end to steal a victory.
If your perception of PvP success is truly based on people's ability to hop around and change their firing order...and if there are many others who agree with you....then the devs/player community has a separate issue to address.
[ QUOTE ]
Once I know how you hop around and the order in which you shoot, I can easily tell if I have a mathematical advantage over you or not from an offensive or defensive perspective:
[/ QUOTE ] This is somewhat baffling. I know my range of outcomes based on what set you have. I know a Trick Arrow defender isn't a threat in melee where any */EM blasters is. I know from past experience how long I will survive when I see a */EM blaster hit BU+POwerboost+AIM if I let him get within melee. Experience, is what tells me what upper limit is...not how you hop around. As far as the order in which someone shoots...???? I never use a consistent attack chain. It's completely dependent on the exact situation I am in. Obviously some powers like Siphon Speed you might fire off as soon as they recharge, but that gives you no clue as to what order it will appear in a set of my attacks, unless you are an android with an internal chonometer. While I believe you exhibit android-like tendencies, I don't know anyone who has an internal chronometer with atomic-clock accuracy...or even Swatch acccuracy for that matter.
[ QUOTE ]
That ratio is largely fixed for any two combatants in PvP, except for running and jousting which, even if you thought was a good idea for combat in an MMO, this game engine doesn't support well.
[/ QUOTE ] I have to disagree with both halves of that statement. First, while there is a theoritical max DPS you can do...the fundamental issue here is execution. I can tell you that any time I see someone hit Build-Up, I react to make sure they can't deliver their full spectrum of attacks for the 10 seconds it lasts. As to your statement that this game engine doesn't support running and jousting....????? You must mean to say something other than what you said because CoX supported running and jousting so well they had to impose travel suppression. And despite travel surpression, there are many jousting techniques that still work extremely well.
In a nutshell, your perspective seems to be of someone with very limited exposure to the complexities of PvP in CoX. I'm not chastising you for it, but it underscores how preceptions differ and the challenge the devs face in making PvP enjoyable to the larget number of people.
Your exposition on the problems also underscores a critical question in who should PvP enjoyment be centered around. People with relatively little experience, or the hardcore players? Clearly you'd want it to appeal to all, but if it was somewhat of a zero-sum game, I'd focus on making it fun for the neophyte over the veteran.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Many folks (like me) disagreed with this facade and called it what it truly was, a significant correction of a PvP problem that significantly affected PvE playstyle. My sarcasm above clearly reflects my chagrin with the devs' answer to jousting. There were no problems with PvE for 4 isssues. As soon as PvP reared it's ugly head, all of a sudden it was all about how unfair we had been exploiting the AI of all those poor NPCs. Thank you, very much, Dread Lords. 
[/ QUOTE ]
You know, its funny I keep seeing people post this and it always make me laugh. I certainly exploited travel powers in PvE with my Blaster (first character) and suppression is more likely to be negated in (team) PvP via buffs than it is in PvE. I can't say what the devs "true" motivations are/were, but to claim that there was no PvE justification for making changes to how travel powers operate in combat is false. Would if have been changed if PvP were never introduced? I don't know, but at a minimum the situation is more complex than you've presented it.
*anti-smirk*
[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry, but if a problem doesn't actually present any difficulty, then its not a problem; it wasn't presenting any difficulty before PvP, ergo it was not a problem prior to PvP.
[ QUOTE ]
I don't threaten to quit, and I don't claim to represent anyone's opinion but mine in this regard, but if MUO has combat that lasts more than three seconds, that will be very attractive to me. I would rather combat be designed like a poker game than a hand of blackjack, which is what CoH combat currently is.
My longest running issue with CoH is that I would rather kill 100 tough villains that take minutes to kill and then level, than mow down eight thousand blades of grass.
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh it wasn't a threat. Making threats over a game is just silly 
I'm simply saying that there is a characteristic in CoH (Speed) that keeps my interest and if this characteristic were taken out, I would lose interest and thus discontinue to play the game. My personal preference for combat in most any game revolves around it being fast and twitchy.
I like mowing down the eight thousand blades of grass for some weird reason
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Many folks (like me) disagreed with this facade and called it what it truly was, a significant correction of a PvP problem that significantly affected PvE playstyle. My sarcasm above clearly reflects my chagrin with the devs' answer to jousting. There were no problems with PvE for 4 isssues. As soon as PvP reared it's ugly head, all of a sudden it was all about how unfair we had been exploiting the AI of all those poor NPCs. Thank you, very much, Dread Lords.
[/ QUOTE ]
You know, its funny I keep seeing people post this and it always make me laugh. I certainly exploited travel powers in PvE with my Blaster (first character) and suppression is more likely to be negated in (team) PvP via buffs than it is in PvE. I can't say what the devs "true" motivations are/were, but to claim that there was no PvE justification for making changes to how travel powers operate in combat is false. Would if have been changed if PvP were never introduced? I don't know, but at a minimum the situation is more complex than you've presented it.
*anti-smirk*
[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry, but if a problem doesn't actually present any difficulty, then its not a problem; it wasn't presenting any difficulty before PvP, ergo it was not a problem prior to PvP.
[/ QUOTE ]
Whose definition? The devs said it was a problem in PvE and numerous players have stated how it was used in an exploitive fashion. Correlation is _not_ causation. The fact that travel suppression was added in after does not indicate that it was added because of PvP. AFAIK the only evidence that PvP influenced the decision to add suppression is the fact that it came shortly after the initial introduction of the arena.
Thorizdin
Lords of the Dead
Old School Legends
I did read in a thread that has been removed about Jousting in PvP that Statesman replied to.
I am sorry I did not save it now - why? It was the death knell for smoothly flowing travel powers.
In the thread Statesman was discussing an arena battle where scrappers were jousting and landing Crits and running. He said then something would be done - it was SUPPRESSION.
Uh, for the apologists - Malta, Tsoo, CoT and all the other mobs in the game do not start 100 threads on jousting being unbalanced.
PvP players did.
If you have ever played a blaster you would no jousting was not and never has been "safe." As for suppression in Flight - Statesman quoted "Hover Sniping" as being unfair and guess what? You still can Hover Snipe just fine.
PvP in this game is awful - yes my opinion but then again out of the 20+ friends I had at one time start this game all are gone and won't return citing nerfs and terrible PvP as the main causes.
2 nerfs that are dismissed now but were critical for my friends leaving:
1) Purple Patch
2) Regen +8 server fiasco.
We lost 10 of my friends the day of the purple patch. We lost 6 more over the +8 one shots on the Dev test server. Since then a few returned saw what Enhancement Dysfunction did to their characters and never looked back.
I said in another thread that if the Devs had waited to introduce the huge nerfing of Issues 4,5,6 and ED and offered a replacement - namely inventions - the anger and screaming would have been far less.
2 years of nerfed play and the XP and INF has not been buffed to account for the slower game play. The 30-40 levels are flat out boring.
The changes to "Content" like the sewer Trial and other similar changes has resulted in no one doing the content now. How is this an improvement?
I understand it now though. CoH was beta for CoV and Coh/V is beta for Marvel MMO. I get it.
[ QUOTE ]
It was never really necessary to run all your armors, it was just 'more fun'. The players demanded it, and they got it, and it broke the system to a degree.
[/ QUOTE ]
I gonna have to disagree with you here. I'd say it becomes a requitement as you level up. Multiple damage types and positional attack are flying during battles. An SR Scrapper not running his 3 main toggles fight Nemesis is gonna get slaughtered . And Invuln Tanker had to run Unyiellding in the upper game or risk getting mezzed and getting a full or partial team wipe. And choosing then to use Unylelding was a gamble. Don't get close enough and your Invincility was virtually useless for Taunting, youre out of ranged to use the taunt in your attacks, and we only had the single target Taunt. And o h yeah, Rikti Mentlists. They stayed ranged. So had the choice be unmezz, rooted, and unable damage the Rikti. Or stand a very good chacne of geting slept/held before you could make it over ti him. And you have the 10+ second recoarge of Unyielding. On yeah, that was really fun. Not!
[ QUOTE ]
I did read in a thread that has been removed about Jousting in PvP that Statesman replied to.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry, but I don't believe that thread ever existed, at least not in a form that said the reason was PvP. IIRC, the devs have never admitted to a strong link between PvP and the introduction of suppression. If they had, this debate wouldn't have been going on for years the way that it has.
(the rest of your post was nothing but propaganda so I didn't bother to respond to it.)
Thorizdin
Lords of the Dead
Old School Legends
Actually, didn't the devs first correct the problem by introducing -tohit, switching to suppression only after player outcry?
So it doesn't seem likely that Statesman would introduce the problem of 'jousting in PVP' with 'suppression' as the solution.
[ QUOTE ]
I would get a lifetime, yearly sub to this game if fights happened where it took close to the length of a 10 minute match for one kill to be scored. Or if fights were actually two people squaring off and pounding on each other until you at the keyboard got exhausted or it just got so boring you flipped a coin or something lol.
[/ QUOTE ]
back in asheron's call I had some really epic, long fights. sometimes they were cool, but sometimes it was just ugh, someone die already. (we're talking way more than 10 minutes though)
[ QUOTE ]
Actually, didn't the devs first correct the problem by introducing -tohit, switching to suppression only after player outcry?
[/ QUOTE ]
Fly had a sizable tohit penalty from launch to i4. Superjump didn't have any penalties until suppression. Superspeed... had enourmous +def and -tohit before launch, but I think it was changed to not have any penalties but providing minor stealth around launch.
[ QUOTE ]
Whose definition? The devs said it was a problem in PvE and numerous players have stated how it was used in an exploitive fashion. Correlation is _not_ causation.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, I am quite aware of post hoc ergo propter hoc. However, the timing is suspicious. The devs said it was a problem only {i]after[/i] they implemented travel suppression. Numerous players have stated that it was a problem since the implementation of travel suppression. However, I remember the "good old days" pre-travel suppression, and at that point no great cloud of players were demanding that travel powers needed gimping, and there was no indication whatsoever pre-PvP that it would occur.
In short, it was a problem that no one noticed because it was causing no one any difficulties. Had it not been for PvP, no one would have cared.
[ QUOTE ]
The fact that travel suppression was added in after does not indicate that it was added because of PvP. AFAIK the only evidence that PvP influenced the decision to add suppression is the fact that it came shortly after the initial introduction of the arena.
[/ QUOTE ]
Just FYI: Ignoring a common cause is just as much a logical fallacy as post hoc ergo propter hoc.
[ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry, but I don't believe that thread ever existed, at least not in a form that said the reason was PvP. IIRC, the devs have never admitted to a strong link between PvP and the introduction of suppression. If they had, this debate wouldn't have been going on for years the way that it has.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sure it would.
But he was right about one thing... it wasn't the Tsoo, the Clockwork, the Skulls, and so on creating the hue and cry to end jousting and hover sniping... it was the PvP players.
Who, of course, weren't PvP players prior to I4.
[ QUOTE ]
I don't agree that the arena causes short battles.
[/ QUOTE ] I didn't say the arena causes short battles. I said that the Arena is where I normally have short battles, I also suggested that when you have a 10 minute timer, if you came to fight, then you'd better get on with it.
The Arena dynamic lends itself to people using all-out tactics and going for broke because you are in a box, becuase you get respawned to full health, and in timed battles, there is no limit to how many times you can be defeated. Nowhere am I saying that people only have short fights in the Arena.