should team buffs have diminishing returns?
By
ageone,
Posted on: 2007-04-10 09:49 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
What some small children need to remember:
The non-pretorian, non-vampire based AV's tend to be... Fairly easy.
I mean sweet Jesus. Look at Hopkins.
HOPKINS!!!!
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Currently listening to the Rolling Stones' Emotional Rescue
Chief Hamster of the Fist of Justice / Shadows of Victory
Victory Server: Join Victory Forum for team forming and general game chat and IRC Chat: irc.hashmark.net #victory for offline chatting.
Rock, rock on Hamster.
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You know if you did anything informative with your posts ever, people might attach importance to what you said. If you need me to dig up your posts on the all blaster TFs where you describe the team wipes, I can. However if you prefer to delude yourself and toss insults as you normally do, feel free.
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Don't bother. Bumped the thread, little girl.
Read it. Takes notes. There will be a quiz later.
And remember, the results will be on your permanent record.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ok, maybe someone else finds your demeanor amusing, but I'm done. I don't need to argue with someone who wouldn't know civility if it walked up and bit them on the behind. Later. I'll argue with the rational instead.
Too many alts to list.
Crap.
The little girl quoted the post before I could edit the url into it.
Anywho, I accept your admission of defeat and being wrong in all things in life.
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Currently listening to the Rolling Stones' Emotional Rescue
Chief Hamster of the Fist of Justice / Shadows of Victory
Victory Server: Join Victory Forum for team forming and general game chat and IRC Chat: irc.hashmark.net #victory for offline chatting.
Rock, rock on Hamster.
[ QUOTE ]
What some small children need to remember:
The non-pretorian, non-vampire based AV's tend to be... Fairly easy.
I mean sweet Jesus. Look at Hopkins.
HOPKINS!!!!
--------------------
Currently listening to the Rolling Stones' Emotional Rescue
[/ QUOTE ]
Hopkins is a joke, but even some pretorian AV's like Infernal are a joke.
Cheers!
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What some small children need to remember:
The non-pretorian, non-vampire based AV's tend to be... Fairly easy.
I mean sweet Jesus. Look at Hopkins.
HOPKINS!!!!
--------------------
Currently listening to the Rolling Stones' Emotional Rescue
[/ QUOTE ]
Hopkins is a joke, but even some pretorian AV's like Infernal are a joke.
Cheers!
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Once again, as I did say, much content in this game is overly easy. Sure, some AVs even fit in this category. Does vanquishing easy content mean all teams are equal? Hardly.
Oh, and hampster, you've made the ignore list, not that I suspect you care. It's for my sake, since I'd just as soon read something useful. Ironic is you calling someone a child.
Too many alts to list.
Infernal used to be fun.
Remember when fire tanks and fire blasters and fire controllers were foam at the mouth?
And then they would run into Infernal, who was nearly immune to fire damage?
Infernal at least has a few good alpha strikes and a power aoe.
Didn't mean to imply that all Pretorians were nasty; just they had most of the really nasty ones. The jerks.
(of course, they also compromise a sizable percentage of the AV's available...)
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Currently listening to the Rolling Stones' Emotional Rescue
Chief Hamster of the Fist of Justice / Shadows of Victory
Victory Server: Join Victory Forum for team forming and general game chat and IRC Chat: irc.hashmark.net #victory for offline chatting.
Rock, rock on Hamster.
Actually, I'm surprised they haven't done this already. When they were revamping the Hamidon encounter, I expected them to change things so that you couldn't effectively stack a single buff or debuff more than 10 times. It wouldn't affect regular teaming, but would make a big difference in the range of variables the devs needed to juggle when designing Hamidon.
Obviously, I was wrong.
Avatar: "Cheeky Jack O Lantern" by dimarie
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team buffs have a mechanics problem. Teams vary in size from 1-8 so a buff that applies to everyone on the team is multiplied in effectiveness from 1x to 8x. Either a buff is useless for small teams or godmode for large teams - or both.
What if team buffs had diminishing returns? Say 150% effectiveness for teams of 1-2, 125% for 3-4, 100% for 5-6, and 75% for 7-8 (numbers given are just an idea, the real numbers would need to be better balanced and more complex like (Y-1) X (12.5% + R/2.3).
That way buffs would be more useful on smaller teams and less powerful on bigger teams than they are now. A team buff should still give a bigger total boost on a large team but not 4x on an 8 person team what it does on a 2 person team.
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Yes, they should. In fact, adding diminishing returns to buffs and debuffs of all sorts would allow us to alter many, many problematic powers. In all likelyhood, though, it will not happen. The change would simply be too fundmental and require a great deal of work on our part.
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You know if you did anything informative with your posts ever, people might attach importance to what you said. If you need me to dig up your posts on the all blaster TFs where you describe the team wipes, I can. However if you prefer to delude yourself and toss insults as you normally do, feel free.
[/ QUOTE ]
Don't bother. Bumped the thread, little girl.
Read it. Takes notes. There will be a quiz later.
And remember, the results will be on your permanent record.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ok, maybe someone else finds your demeanor amusing, but I'm done. I don't need to argue with someone who wouldn't know civility if it walked up and bit them on the behind. Later. I'll argue with the rational instead.
[/ QUOTE ]
Now THAT is funny coming from the self proclaimed "no need to be civil" person.
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Infernal used to be fun.
Remember when fire tanks and fire blasters and fire controllers were foam at the mouth?
And then they would run into Infernal, who was nearly immune to fire damage?
Infernal at least has a few good alpha strikes and a power aoe.
Didn't mean to imply that all Pretorians were nasty; just they had most of the really nasty ones. The jerks.
(of course, they also compromise a sizable percentage of the AV's available...)
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Currently listening to the Rolling Stones' Emotional Rescue
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Agreed. Seems MoM is one of the hardest ones. I always found the RSF Heroes much more difficult than any of the CoX AV's. Positron is a total jerk.
Even compared to the signature villians the heroes always seem insanely more tough.
Cheers!
Torak:
That, and you KNOW he's the type who waits minutes to start a TF because he's looking for "A HELEAER" and a tank.
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Currently listening to the Rolling Stones' Emotional Rescue
Chief Hamster of the Fist of Justice / Shadows of Victory
Victory Server: Join Victory Forum for team forming and general game chat and IRC Chat: irc.hashmark.net #victory for offline chatting.
Rock, rock on Hamster.
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team buffs have a mechanics problem. Teams vary in size from 1-8 so a buff that applies to everyone on the team is multiplied in effectiveness from 1x to 8x. Either a buff is useless for small teams or godmode for large teams - or both.
What if team buffs had diminishing returns? Say 150% effectiveness for teams of 1-2, 125% for 3-4, 100% for 5-6, and 75% for 7-8 (numbers given are just an idea, the real numbers would need to be better balanced and more complex like (Y-1) X (12.5% + R/2.3).
That way buffs would be more useful on smaller teams and less powerful on bigger teams than they are now. A team buff should still give a bigger total boost on a large team but not 4x on an 8 person team what it does on a 2 person team.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, they should. In fact, adding diminishing returns to buffs and debuffs of all sorts would allow us to alter many, many problematic powers. In all likelyhood, though, it will not happen. The change would simply be too fundmental and require a great deal of work on our part.
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Lord help us, they'd do it if they could!
Agua Man lvl 48 Water/Electric Blaster
"To die hating NCSoft for shutting down City of Heroes, that was Freedom."
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Now THAT is funny coming from the self proclaimed "no need to be civil" person.
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I've been known to make a post without an insult in it. That's the difference.
Too many alts to list.
Eh. They've already put a lot of buffing restrictions.
Some buffs don't stack at all. There's a damage and acc cap. Recharging is on a diminishing return. There resistance and defense caps.
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Currently listening to the Rolling Stones' Emotional Rescue
Chief Hamster of the Fist of Justice / Shadows of Victory
Victory Server: Join Victory Forum for team forming and general game chat and IRC Chat: irc.hashmark.net #victory for offline chatting.
Rock, rock on Hamster.
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team buffs have a mechanics problem. Teams vary in size from 1-8 so a buff that applies to everyone on the team is multiplied in effectiveness from 1x to 8x. Either a buff is useless for small teams or godmode for large teams - or both.
What if team buffs had diminishing returns? Say 150% effectiveness for teams of 1-2, 125% for 3-4, 100% for 5-6, and 75% for 7-8 (numbers given are just an idea, the real numbers would need to be better balanced and more complex like (Y-1) X (12.5% + R/2.3).
That way buffs would be more useful on smaller teams and less powerful on bigger teams than they are now. A team buff should still give a bigger total boost on a large team but not 4x on an 8 person team what it does on a 2 person team.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, they should. In fact, adding diminishing returns to buffs and debuffs of all sorts would allow us to alter many, many problematic powers. In all likelyhood, though, it will not happen. The change would simply be too fundmental and require a great deal of work on our part.
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This is rather what I expected. It's simply a function of the game engine and it won't change. Thanks for the factual interjection Castle.
Too many alts to list.
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team buffs have a mechanics problem. Teams vary in size from 1-8 so a buff that applies to everyone on the team is multiplied in effectiveness from 1x to 8x. Either a buff is useless for small teams or godmode for large teams - or both.
What if team buffs had diminishing returns? Say 150% effectiveness for teams of 1-2, 125% for 3-4, 100% for 5-6, and 75% for 7-8 (numbers given are just an idea, the real numbers would need to be better balanced and more complex like (Y-1) X (12.5% + R/2.3).
That way buffs would be more useful on smaller teams and less powerful on bigger teams than they are now. A team buff should still give a bigger total boost on a large team but not 4x on an 8 person team what it does on a 2 person team.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, they should. In fact, adding diminishing returns to buffs and debuffs of all sorts would allow us to alter many, many problematic powers. In all likelyhood, though, it will not happen. The change would simply be too fundmental and require a great deal of work on our part.
[/ QUOTE ]
Lord help us, they'd do it if they could!
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Sure! Then Weave could give 15% Defense, and Combat Jumping could give 25% Defense (or whatever) and combined, they'd give 30% instead of 40%. When the local FF Defender buffed the character, instead of the normal 25% for the FF, it'd be 5% for 35% defense.*
Basically, additional buffs would always be helpful, but the base level abilities could be made better and more useful across the board.
* Disclaimer: All numbers used illustratively and do not indicate any relation to what said values or formulae would actually be if we were ever to implement a system such as this, which I doubt.
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. . . if we were ever to implement a system such as this, which I doubt.
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Good news. 
Cheers!
I like being quoted by Rednames, but not like this...
Agua Man lvl 48 Water/Electric Blaster
"To die hating NCSoft for shutting down City of Heroes, that was Freedom."
[ QUOTE ]
I like being quoted by Rednames, but not like this...
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You do of course realize, if anything ever happens to buffs you will be blamed.
Curse you, Mental Giant!!!
There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.
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team buffs have a mechanics problem. Teams vary in size from 1-8 so a buff that applies to everyone on the team is multiplied in effectiveness from 1x to 8x. Either a buff is useless for small teams or godmode for large teams - or both.
What if team buffs had diminishing returns? Say 150% effectiveness for teams of 1-2, 125% for 3-4, 100% for 5-6, and 75% for 7-8 (numbers given are just an idea, the real numbers would need to be better balanced and more complex like (Y-1) X (12.5% + R/2.3).
That way buffs would be more useful on smaller teams and less powerful on bigger teams than they are now. A team buff should still give a bigger total boost on a large team but not 4x on an 8 person team what it does on a 2 person team.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, they should. In fact, adding diminishing returns to buffs and debuffs of all sorts would allow us to alter many, many problematic powers. In all likelyhood, though, it will not happen. The change would simply be too fundmental and require a great deal of work on our part.
[/ QUOTE ]
Lord help us, they'd do it if they could!
[/ QUOTE ]
Sure! Then Weave could give 15% Defense, and Combat Jumping could give 25% Defense (or whatever) and combined, they'd give 30% instead of 40%. When the local FF Defender buffed the character, instead of the normal 25% for the FF, it'd be 5% for 35% defense.*
Basically, additional buffs would always be helpful, but the base level abilities could be made better and more useful across the board.
* Disclaimer: All numbers used illustratively and do not indicate any relation to what said values or formulae would actually be if we were ever to implement a system such as this, which I doubt.
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I assume the way to do this would be to make the factors serial instead of parallel.
As in Tanker Resist X reduces damage taken by 50%. Defender buff Y reduces damage by 50%. Instead of adding to reduce damage by 100%, the tanker resist would reduced damage by 50% and then the defender buff would reduce the remaining damage by 50%.
I can understand for tech reasons it may never be implemented. But ED and the tanker nerf gave me hope that the devs are still willing to make massive changes to make the game better. I do hope the devs continue to see the game as having a long future so they keep trying to make it "perfect" rather than just trying to patch it along to keep it running while it gradually dies off. CoH is too good to just decide that it is too late to fix substantial issues.
But I quibble. A dev agrees with me. I can die content.
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team buffs have a mechanics problem. Teams vary in size from 1-8 so a buff that applies to everyone on the team is multiplied in effectiveness from 1x to 8x. Either a buff is useless for small teams or godmode for large teams - or both.
What if team buffs had diminishing returns? Say 150% effectiveness for teams of 1-2, 125% for 3-4, 100% for 5-6, and 75% for 7-8 (numbers given are just an idea, the real numbers would need to be better balanced and more complex like (Y-1) X (12.5% + R/2.3).
That way buffs would be more useful on smaller teams and less powerful on bigger teams than they are now. A team buff should still give a bigger total boost on a large team but not 4x on an 8 person team what it does on a 2 person team.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, they should. In fact, adding diminishing returns to buffs and debuffs of all sorts would allow us to alter many, many problematic powers. In all likelyhood, though, it will not happen. The change would simply be too fundmental and require a great deal of work on our part.
[/ QUOTE ]
Lord help us, they'd do it if they could!
[/ QUOTE ]
Sure! Then Weave could give 15% Defense, and Combat Jumping could give 25% Defense (or whatever) and combined, they'd give 30% instead of 40%. When the local FF Defender buffed the character, instead of the normal 25% for the FF, it'd be 5% for 35% defense.*
Basically, additional buffs would always be helpful, but the base level abilities could be made better and more useful across the board.
* Disclaimer: All numbers used illustratively and do not indicate any relation to what said values or formulae would actually be if we were ever to implement a system such as this, which I doubt.
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Good to hear ... unless you want City of Soloers. 
Sign It : http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
I approve of this product and/or statement. As _Castle_ points out later it would allow for base abilities to be stronger and more useful. While still allowing larger teams to hit the SAME buffing caps they are now.
A win for the solo/casual player, no lose for the team players.
Thanks, _Castle_. Very interesting to hear your take on it, and it looks like your ideal system would be cool. Individual powers would be tough, and more buffs would be significant without spiraling off into uber. I like "force adders" more than "force multipliers" ...
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You know if you did anything informative with your posts ever, people might attach importance to what you said. If you need me to dig up your posts on the all blaster TFs where you describe the team wipes, I can. However if you prefer to delude yourself and toss insults as you normally do, feel free.
[/ QUOTE ]
Don't bother. Bumped the thread , little girl. Just for you. Even put a cherry on top.
Read it. Takes notes. There will be a quiz later.
And remember, the results will be on your permanent record.
--------------------
Currently listening to the Rolling Stones' Emotional Rescue
Chief Hamster of the Fist of Justice / Shadows of Victory
Victory Server: Join Victory Forum for team forming and general game chat and IRC Chat: irc.hashmark.net #victory for offline chatting.
Rock, rock on Hamster.