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Instead everytime I see that quote I wonder, "Would we have a Flashback System, if it had been started on TWO YEARS ago when I first read the idea?"
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Fair enough. And if they had started it 2 years ago and it got implemented, what wouldn't we have that we currently have?
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PvP 
Gladly sacrifice THAT.
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The solution with the least effort on the devs part that solves the problem for 50s is to just award the Pool B drop to everyone on the team.
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Actually there is an even easier solution. Just have ONE drop table. Everything draws from that. Problem ended.
The only thing worse than devs making bad decisions is the hoard of fanboys and bootlickers that keep cheering them on.
Maybe I could possibly get behind proposals to link Mayhem/Safeguards to Pool B under one of these possibilities.
1. Each broker offered a one time only Pool B drop instead of a new contact. This could be available from outleveled Brokers via teaming with lower levels long enough to fill the broker bar, then being allowed access to the recipe drop. Once the recipe drop is chosen, it is removed from that broker's list just like a contact.
2. Broker's could possibly offer Pool B drops once they run out of contacts to offer an appropriately leveled character. This way characters could not simply run for mayhem/safeguards for 5 levels and be rewarded instantly with recipes. They would have to wait for each contact in the zone to unlock first. Unfortunately, as characters reach the 30s and 40s, this suggestion allows massive access to Pool B, which I doubt the devs want.
All-in-all, I kind of like the first suggestion, while the second one is something I could live with if I had to.
I would still prefer retroactive rewards or being up the creek to either, though. I really like the 4 Pool idea. Once we figure out what enhancement is where, 4 Pools allows us to increase our likelihood to get the drop we actually want. I can live with my 6 level 50s not getting any goodies if it means my lower level alts have some map available to shortcut getting what they actually want. One huge pool of drops only reminds me of how many damage/range HOs and +Knockback SOs I have received in comparrison to the 3 golgis and zero level 51+ Endurance Modification SOs I have seen in 20 months of play.
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1. Each broker offered a one time only Pool B drop instead of a new contact. This could be available from outleveled Brokers via teaming with lower levels long enough to fill the broker bar, then being allowed access to the recipe drop. Once the recipe drop is chosen, it is removed from that broker's list just like a contact.
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Yuck. That would limit the "make up" fix to 1/5 - 1/7 the amount of drops a new character can get.
Sorry that is a bad idea.
What you've just proposed is that my level 50 get under 10 drops for the 45+ arcs she did.
I still think the 1 drop a day from safeguards/mayhems (and they have the 1 a day code already, it is being used for the SHOs, and will be used in the new Hami encounter). It would require less coding than what you propose, and limits the amount of farming that can be done to Pool B.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
I meant this in addition to normal reward via story arcs. 1/5 is better than 0/50 for those who have no arcs remaining. This of course depends on the assumption that the Devs wish Pool B to have limited accessability. A 1/day drop would not limit farming of pool B any more than than LRSF limits access to SHOES. All people have to do to work around the restriction is change toons. At best a 1/day limit is in reality a 12/day limit per account for farmers. Assuming people find a RL market for these drops, the prices may very well pay for multiple accounts.
Personally, I could care less if someone pays RL money for something ingame, but others fear it beyond my comprehension despite all the multitude of stated reasons for it being bad. I have no intention of paying RL money for something that is fun to obtain normally. I have no intention of turning a game into a job. To me, its the same as proffesional sports. It is not worth my time/money to pay to watch someone else have fun, especially since the players seem to have lost any clue as to how to simply enjoy the game. I don't care how someone else earns/spends their money. I would rather enjoy what I have and take pleasure in the scenery of my journey. Life is much more pleasant without being bogged down by the weight of greed, envy, prejudice, and the never ending cycle of "what if?"
Even with a once a day limit, I'd probably get it once every few days (if not a longer time) on a server. I also have no intention of paying RL money to some item farmer.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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the only people this is truly a problem with are those who have to have 'em all
the solution is the same for all collectors of any item in any reality.
Pay for it
Once you make the collectable rare common, it is no longer collectable.
Anyone noticed the price on Death of Superman lately? It reflects the insane availability. Easy to obtain collection pieces are worthless.
The system will have rarity whether people want it or not. At least the 4 Pool System allows you to localize your search for your particularly desired rare. You only have to delve into Pool B for this and Pool D for that. We dont even know what will be where yet. Combining the pools decreases your chance of getting what you desire at any given time on those toons who do have available story arcs. Creating more paths to Pool B ruins the entire rarity idea.
Dear devs,
PLEASE, Keep the Pool B story arc plan.
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What possible benefit is there in items being rare? I can think of none.
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
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It's similar to an idea of mine:
When you receive a Mission Complete, if it has been at least 18 in-game hours and 18 different missions since the last time you received a B drop, you get a B drop.
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Good idea.
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
Oh, there is no real benefit to rarity for the players, aside from elitists. The rarity is for the benefit of of merchandising. The rarer an item, the more effort must be expended to obtain it usually (note, luck can make the rarest item in the world drop into your lap on your first attempt).
Think along the line of baseball cards and collectible card/miniature games (HeroClix, Magic the Gathering, Star Wars Minis, etc). If you could purchase every piece individually at the same cost, you would purchase only those pieces you wanted and have a defined finite spending cap. Since you can't just buy 3 packs and get the specific 12 items you want, you are more likely to spend more. It is actually common to see collectible gamers start with 3 packs > buy 3 more > buy some more > buy some more > until they get what they really wanted. Instead of $21 dollars in sales, the collector has spent $60-$100, possibly all the money they had on them, resulting in no fine dining that evening. The reveal of the contents becomes addictive. All unnecessary, duplicate common items are easily placed on the secondary market, fueling the collector's belief that he/she has made some progress.
Putting rarity into the computer MMO is similar. Yo know that certain items will only be obtainable in certain ways depending on the drop pool. Initially, you will likely only go out of your way in order to obtain a few rares. The thing is, you might have to attempt the same action, be it TF/SF/Arc, 5-10 times to get the one rare you desire. Each drop will be a sort of bait for the next. Once you finally get those few items you wanted in the beginning, you might notice that you now have enough of the rare pieces to convince you to try for the remaining ones. All of this takes time. Unless you purchase from the secondary market, or live in game, you are likely to spend multiple months working for your pieces. Even if you purchase them, you must wait for the items to finally appear, checking every day, and then accumulate enough in-game resources to have the winning bid. Even in the case of real money transfers, you must then sign into the game, once you purchase the item, for transfer. Each of these methods requires you to keep an active account, which requires you to pay NC Soft, which requires them to pay Cryptic to continue development of further items to bait the hook of our online habit.
Real money transfers substantially reduce the time you will have to maintain an account, and purchasers usually lack the personal attachment to the account, so those accounts close more rapidly. To prevent rapid transfers, NC Soft will do what they can to reduce this third party money transfer. It likely has little/nothing to do with any ethical viewpoint banded about by "concerned" players. NC Soft and Cryptic are businesses that need purchases to survive. It is in their best interest to keep you paying as long and often as possible if they want to stay in business. A rarity based collector's item mechanic is one way of enticing you to prolong your account, especially if you are one of the many people easily seduced by the "Got to catch 'em all" mentality.
The benefit to us players is that these items function in a new, and possibly more powerful manner than pre-existing items. They are new. They are shinny. They make us slightly more "super."
There are 2 possible benefits to rarity:
1) You don't want players to be 'fully slotted' with that specific item, at least not too soon. If B drops are limited to Story Arcs, then you can only get 50 or so per character, ever. Of course, that number will eventually be skewed as people shuffle them from less-played characters onto more-played characters.
For instance: the IOs that give +% to hp regeneration. A few of those per character, or a lot of those on a few characters has no effect on the game. But a lot of those on every character devalues end (and end drain in PvP) massively.
2) Fun for Acheivers. A significant minority of MMO players are what is called Acheivers. They enjoy a game more while they have a chance of doing things 'best first'. For a game to be successful, you want to cater to these folks as well as to the Killers, Explorers and RolePlayers.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
So since task forces seem to be where the rarer drops are at, will villains be getting more of those? Because as it stands, and someone correct me if I'm wrong here, villains have 4 plus the SG computer TF. And heroes have will 14 including the Statesman TF.
If not, its going to get old doing the same ones over and over. 
@Poison Idea
Guilty of being tight.
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Oh, there is no real benefit to rarity for the players, aside from elitists.
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Agreed.
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Putting rarity into the computer MMO is similar. Yo know that certain items will only be obtainable in certain ways depending on the drop pool.
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The thing is that every time the developers try to introduce rarity into the "City of" franchise, the resounding player response has been "Get lost. We do not WANT the rare hunts of other games, that is why we play City of Heroes/Villains."
You'd think that Cryptic would listen eventually.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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There are 2 possible benefits to rarity:
1) You don't want players to be 'fully slotted' with that specific item, at least not too soon. If B drops are limited to Story Arcs, then you can only get 50 or so per character, ever. Of course, that number will eventually be skewed as people shuffle them from less-played characters onto more-played characters.
For instance: the IOs that give +% to hp regeneration. A few of those per character, or a lot of those on a few characters has no effect on the game. But a lot of those on every character devalues end (and end drain in PvP) massively.
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That is already being taken care of with the "No more than 5 of any type of bonus" stacking rule, as _Castle_ ponders:
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Stacking:
Yes, to a point, they well stack. Each 'bonus' can be replicated up to 5 times per character per value. For instance, if you have 6 enhancement sets that each give +1% maximum hp, you would only gain +5% maximum hp -- you've exceeded the cap. In practice, this is less likely than it sounds since +1% and +1.25% are different, and your character could have 5 copies of each (for +11.25% total maximum hp)
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Continuing along:
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2) Fun for Acheivers. A significant minority of MMO players are what is called Acheivers. They enjoy a game more while they have a chance of doing things 'best first'. For a game to be successful, you want to cater to these folks as well as to the Killers, Explorers and RolePlayers.
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Highlighted to stress a point. Yes there are some that see rarity as a challenge, but while some things should be harder to achieve than others, given the stacking rules they shouldn't be as rare as it looks like Pool B is for everyone. For that matter Pool C and D for villains, either.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
The thing I like about the rarity in the system as proposed is that is a very different type of rarity than in other MMOs.
If you do a TF, you get a random TF drop.
That is much better than "If you do this specific TF, you get a 5% chance that one of you will get a specific drop if too many haven't dropped today."
Since there are less than 20 TFs per side, and IF the info indicating that each rare drop pool is less than 20 different items, it makes it seem like you might want to run through every available TF once or twice (and do some trading) to get one of everything. As opposed to 20 times for a specific raid to get once chance out of all the raiders to get something.
Story Arc drops drop to the person whose arc it is, guaranteed. Even with Story Arcs being unrepeatable, that's still much better odds than a WoW raid. IF of course, you can do the arc in question in the first place.
In any case, the IOs are specifically designed to be only slightly better than SOs and equal or less than HOs, so it's STILL not like other games, where you actually need the drops for PvE content (so far).
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
I've got problems with the Pool B (story arc) mechanics from the standpoints of level 50, "I've already done my arcs", support characters, "I can't find people to help me with my arcs", and people feeling the "need" to complete all their arcs affecting how they play the game. I do believe the proposed mechanics will encourage some players to solo when they might have otherwise teamed, and yet others to lower their difficulty rating when on a team so they don't outlevel arcs. Their desire for a challenge is in direct competition with their desire to acquire recipes.
Instead, I think Pool B should be handled in a way that encourages behavior that's already, at least I believe by the devs, to be considered fun. Instead of tying the pool to story arcs, tie it to exemplaring/malefactoring. Use the same mechanics as Pool A with the drop frequency adjusted to give the desired effort:reward. So a player working at their own level will get Pool A drops. A player that is exemplared/malefactored will get both Pool A and Pool B drops based on what they're fighting at their effective combat level.
Obviously, the various Pool B "sets" will have to be down-shifted by seven levels. So, the set the devs currently intend players to acquire upon completing their level 25-29 story arcs would drop when exemplared/mal'd down and defeating opponents in the 18-22 range.
I think this solution addresses almost all the concerns I've read in this thread by encouraging what is considered, at least I believe by the devs, desired behavior. But, it does raise one new one. People who only solo will not want to exemplar/mal. So, perhaps an alternative is to reduce the drop rate while exemplared but also include a chance to receive a drop upon completion of a story arc as currently proposed. This only leaves high-level soloers to go out and earn that influence to buy what they need.
Just give the pool B reward to everyone on the team.
They do it already with badges.
The 50s can exemp down and get them.
Centinull
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If you do a TF, you get a random TF drop.
That is much better than "If you do this specific TF, you get a 5% chance that one of you will get a specific drop if too many haven't dropped today."
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I haven't a problem with repeatable rewards. Though I do have concerns about the 4 SF to 13 TF disparity between CoV and CoH.
Also, there needs to be 3 more trials added to CoV (CoH has Caverns, Eden, Sewer) as well. Respec trials are equal number in both.
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Story Arc drops drop to the person whose arc it is, guaranteed. Even with Story Arcs being unrepeatable, that's still much better odds than a WoW raid. IF of course, you can do the arc in question in the first place.
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The highlighted portion is the part that bugs me the most. I've done over 30 regular souviner arcs (still have 5 more left to finish, missed 1 souviner arc) and 8 of the zone story arcs with one of my 50s. I couldn't do the Croatoa Arcs, or the new Faultline arcs with that character as it had outlevelled the arcs before they went live.
Basically, if they add any new 45 or below story arcs, this character will get even further cheated out of the same chances a new character gets. My favorite server has no character slots left, my second favorite server is full as well. On my favorite server the majority of my characters are 21+. I don't want to delete any of them, and getting a second account is not an option.
As to the idea that I could just buy what I need doesn't take into consideration that since Issue 6 there has been a penalty to INF earning while in SGmode. I've avoided the Inf badges, because I thought my SG was worth it. I've been out of sgmode the bare minimum to get my enhancements upgraded. Now I am being FURTHER punished (barely getting by, I could've had the INF badges, my level 25+ villains could have gotten the unlockable contact a bit easier) for staying true to my Groups because I most likely will not be able to afford to use the auction house, even if what I need from it is available. This is wrong.
This does not sound like a good way to start an economy.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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Just give the pool B reward to everyone on the team.
They do it already with badges.
The 50s can exemp down and get them.
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Badges award very differently than story arcs, and we already see a lot of people being annoyed that if you are not on the team for the majority of the mission (even in a TF/SF) you get no badge.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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Just give the pool B reward to everyone on the team.
They do it already with badges.
The 50s can exemp down and get them.
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Arc completion is a different reward "phase" than when badges get handed out.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
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I haven't a problem with repeatable rewards. Though I do have concerns about the 4 SF to 13 TF disparity between CoV and CoH.
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Not to neglect you valid concerns. The farmers will pick the easiest and repeat it anyway, so there isnt really that much difference herosdie and villanside in accessibility.
Personally I enjoy the SF's much more than most TF's in terms of how they are put together so they may have better longevity for the casual gamers.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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I haven't a problem with repeatable rewards. Though I do have concerns about the 4 SF to 13 TF disparity between CoV and CoH.
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Not to neglect you valid concerns. The farmers will pick the easiest and repeat it anyway, so there isnt really that much difference herosdie and villanside in accessibility.
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Variety of choice is a difference. Many people loathe and despise repating the same content over and over and over and over and over and ... well, you get the picture, yes?
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I haven't a problem with repeatable rewards. Though I do have concerns about the 4 SF to 13 TF disparity between CoV and CoH.
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Not to neglect you valid concerns. The farmers will pick the easiest and repeat it anyway, so there isnt really that much difference herosdie and villanside in accessibility.
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Actually that is one of my concerns. If a taskforce or strikeforce is getting farmed for any reason, the rewards will get nerfed, but the difficulty will remain the same or greater.
Case in point:
The Katie Hannon TF (Croatoa). I remember that there were a few on Triumph that spent weeks doing it for 10 Single Origin drops for the first mission. Seeing Triumph is a smaller population server, I would imagine that Freedom had the same thing only more so. Now the reward is gone, Mary is still an AV all ten times, and you only get one SO drop.
With more choices, there is less chance of getting shafted thanks to some farmers lack of foresight.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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I haven't a problem with repeatable rewards. Though I do have concerns about the 4 SF to 13 TF disparity between CoV and CoH.
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Not to neglect you valid concerns. The farmers will pick the easiest and repeat it anyway, so there isnt really that much difference herosdie and villanside in accessibility.
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Actually that is one of my concerns. If a taskforce or strikeforce is getting farmed for any reason, the rewards will get nerfed, but the difficulty will remain the same or greater.
Case in point:
The Katie Hannon TF (Croatoa). I remember that there were a few on Triumph that spent weeks doing it for 10 Single Origin drops for the first mission. Seeing Triumph is a smaller population server, I would imagine that Freedom had the same thing only more so. Now the reward is gone, Mary is still an AV all ten times, and you only get one SO drop.
With more choices, there is less chance of getting shafted thanks to some farmers lack of foresight.
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To be honest, mary was pretty wussy as an AV, when I did the TF.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
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Case in point:
The Katie Hannon TF (Croatoa). I remember that there were a few on Triumph that spent weeks doing it for 10 Single Origin drops for the first mission. Seeing Triumph is a smaller population server, I would imagine that Freedom had the same thing only more so. Now the reward is gone, Mary is still an AV all ten times, and you only get one SO drop.
With more choices, there is less chance of getting shafted thanks to some farmers lack of foresight.
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To be honest, mary was pretty wussy as an AV, when I did the TF.
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If you were completely honest, you would have said what AT and level you were.
I do know that AT, level, and team make up will turn that first mission into either a quick run (under 20 minutes) to a painful ordeal (almost 2 hours, and this was before the AV Regen). I've had both those extremes, and many more in between (a lot of alts, helping friends and sg, etc).
The simple fact of the risk/reward for that first mission was broken with the take back of the SO drops. The moment it was taken back, the first 9 should have been made elite bosses, and the last AV should have been set to the TF level like all the other TFs.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
What if the story arc reward pool could also be tied to SafeGuards and Mayhems? It takes 4 - 6 missions to complete the process and requires a key enemy to be defeated, so the effort would be somewhat like doing an arc. Or would it be too farmable by teaming with lower level players?
MA Arc: School Spirit #89349
Original member of the Dream Team Aeon, Virtue division
"A base here or there is a small price to pay for good mad science."--Arbiter Daos
The solution with the least effort on the devs part that solves the problem for 50s is to just award the Pool B drop to everyone on the team.
It's already done that way for badges.
Centinull