I like it! Five out of five tchotchkes!
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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But let's see. If adding a slot to Rest would get me 50% of the base benefit of Stamina (which it can with the right level-gated IO), which is about half of what I lost when ED took away six slotting, I'd do it in a hearbeat.
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Im confused on this. From my understanding, any IO's slotted into a toggle power are ONLY active when the toggle is active.
Rest is a toggle. Thus, any IO in rest will only be active when you activate rest (for obvious reason, end and health boosts are kinda useless).
50 Tanks: Invul/ss, Fire/ice/fire, Ice/em, Stone/fire
WP/Stone, dark/dark, shld/mace
50 Other: WS, SS/dark/sc brute, BS/Regen/WM scrpr, fire/fire/force blaster, rad/kin corr, mind/rad ctrl, ill/storm cntrl
How about they toss us a B recipe for every vet badge ?
Centinull
umm, no on the vet thing.
I have 6 vet badges and i DONT WANT TO HEAR THE EXTREMELY LEGIT WHINNING THAT WOULD CAUSE
I mean toss them to us in addition to earning them the regular way. That way all the level 50s who are crying they cant do the story arcs again would have a nice little assortment of them.
Centinull
I'm agreeing with Starget here. Linking PoolB to Vet Rewards is a bad idea. Both from those that don't have them, and from any level 20+ character's perspective.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
Centinull, the BIG problem with that is that every new toon created on a account automatically gets the same vet rewards. How many complete sets of level 1 IO recipes do we need? Even considering witholding claiming of rewards till appropriate levels, you would have characters gaining something for nothing. I respect Vet rewards and love mine dearly, but 90% of the rewards are pure flavor, every reward that truly effects game balance is deservedly contested, and IO recipes as rewards would effect balance.
I don't see it as something for nothing.
The whole intention of Pool B rewards is a reward us for a chunk of time played. What are Vet Rewards if not that ?
Besides, I assume the rewards at 50 would be nice and the ones at lvl 1 would be pretty cheesy.
Centinull
If the 5% chance of Build up IO is in the B pool, then the level you get it at doesn't matter. But it might not be available at level 1.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
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But let's see. If adding a slot to Rest would get me 50% of the base benefit of Stamina (which it can with the right level-gated IO), which is about half of what I lost when ED took away six slotting, I'd do it in a hearbeat.
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Im confused on this. From my understanding, any IO's slotted into a toggle power are ONLY active when the toggle is active.
Rest is a toggle. Thus, any IO in rest will only be active when you activate rest (for obvious reason, end and health boosts are kinda useless).
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From Iakona:
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One of the 6 enhancements in the "Miracle" set is a +Recovery buff. It doesn't actually have any direct effect on the power you slot it in; rather, it buffs your overall Recovery rate by 12.5%. This is seperate from the Set Bonus buffs you get by slotting 2 to 6 of the Miracle enhancements in a power.
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Note that if these powers were dependant on the status of the power then they would be meaningless in click powers. Since the sets they come in are clearly targeted primarily at powers such as those found in Empathy, this suggests that they would be almost totally worthless to all users if their effect was not constant.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Now I finally have a reason to put an enhancement in Rest =)
Centinull
except that Inventions and Vet Rewards reward two totally different time chunks. Unvention rewards individual character time investment (until the economy actually gets rolling) and Vet rewards is for player activity.
If Inventions were tied to VRs, they would probably be claimed in the same manner as temp powers, respecs, base items, and costume tokens. This means the PL group that the devs and many players love to hate would have seriously easy access to level 50+ recipes on new toons every 2-3 weeks (it does still happen that fast for the serious PL crew, they just stopped talking so much about it). retroactive rewards is already viewed by many as something for nothing, VRs would be even worse. At least with the retroactive rewards players can argue that they did actually do the required content, just somewhat in advance of need and without knowledge of that need.
I take back the VR idea.
I just occured to me that you just keep rolling new toons and milk them for recipes and delete and repeat.
Centinull
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I don't see it as something for nothing.
The whole intention of Pool B rewards is a reward us for a chunk of time played. What are Vet Rewards if not that ?
Besides, I assume the rewards at 50 would be nice and the ones at lvl 1 would be pretty cheesy.
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If they want a reward based on time played, they should work like badges. You earn certain badges after spending X amount of time doing something. Perhaps award Pool B drops at certain hour increments. Maybe 1 drop for every 20 hours spent on an alt. Someone who takes their time leveling and doesn't power level will receive more drops over the course of their alt than someone who zooms to 50 and then only rarely uses the alt again.
I like this idea.
Although you could help it along if you just left your toon in missions unattended, but it would limit farming to only the extremists
Centinull
It's similar to an idea of mine:
When you receive a Mission Complete, if it has been at least 18 in-game hours and 18 different missions since the last time you received a B drop, you get a B drop.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
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Are there any others I'm forgetting?
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Healing set: Regenerative Tissue. +20% Regen Rate from one of it's IOs.
Confuse set: Cacophony. PROC for energy damage.
Sleep set: Induced coma. PROC for recharge slow.
Slow set: Impeded Swiftness. PROC for Smashing damage.
Hold sets: Neuronic Shutdown. PROC for Psionic DOT.
... and several others.
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I would surmise the +regen IO in Regenerative Tissue will be trumped by the +regen/+recovery IO in Numina's Convalesence, which conveniently opens up at level 30. Especially since the first set bonus for Numina's Convalesence is yet more +regen.
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IYO. Others may differ - for example, I do. My g/f does, too; she's happy with her Hurdle/Health/Stamina, and good End-red slotting, so she never has to think about Endurance - her blue bar only drops if she's facing End-Drainers. So she wouldn't care about extra +Recovery ... but her GREEN bar still drops, sometimes precipitously ... so that +20% Regen, if it can be slotted in powers like Health, she will want. LOTS.
I've a DM/Regen scrapper. I plan on getting Health and Fitness ... yeah, for the Overkill Factor. Iwon't need to even ponder the +recovery from Numina's set ... but hot DAMN, if I can slot five or six of those +Regen(20%) IOs ...?
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I didn't mention the Chance of [X] procedures because I wouldn't put much faith in them unless you can stack several of the same kind.
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No, as I understand it, you can only put one of those into any given power - or else they'd be too good, and owuld have to be nerfed anyway.
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So really, what low level IOs are really going to be coveted by higher level characters?
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See above. There are at least a few I am truly and seriously wanting for my MM, who at 32 has (just) outlevelled them. I don't see my desire for them waning as his level rises, either.
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Because it's likely that you're going to need a good amount of specialized IOs to provide the same effect that the corresponding power would, and slotting those takes away from the effectiveness of the power you slot it into.
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Health (unslotted) is +40% regen. It's about 79% when three-slotted. Getting that requires two power choices, and two additional slots.
Alternately, you could just spend four slots (for certain sets - Empathy and Regen, in particular, are good candidates; Thermal might pull it off, too) and have +80% regen. That's four slots and ZERO powers; two slots more, but two powers less.
What's more valuable to you - two slots, or two power choices? Unless you're a Kheldian, I'm willing to bet that the answer is "the powers".
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There will be a balancing act in trying to shoehorn enough +recovery effects between IOs and sets to be able to avoid taking Stamina.
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Nah. The sets are heavy with -End already, so your costs will decline, an consumption will meet recovery in the middle. Plenty of people will still take Stamina anyway (guilty as charged, at least on my /regen), but not EVERYone will.
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I want a '57 Chevy. GM decided they wanted to limit the availablility of '57 Chevies by stopping production. I now have to decide if my desire for a '57 Chevy can overcome the financial burden of obtaining one.
Sounds like Pool B
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Flawed analogy: Pool B isn't being discontinued.
Instead, hwo about this: you want that '57 Chevy, and GM is producign them again - but they don't sell them to people who live in your country, nor the immediately-adjacent nations. In fact, they've made it a matter of contract for every liscensed GM dealer ... they can't even do business in second-hand sales, or they lose that liscense.
So now, you have to cruise eBay ... and the nonavailability of the 57 Chevy in your region is a matter of public knowledge. To compound the issue is the still very limited evailability of 57' Chevys anywhere they ARE sold.
What do you expect to happen to the prices you see while shopping at the, er, "auction hall" ...?
I'll give you a hint: neither "bargain" nor "firesale prices" would be an accurate description.
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"I normally don't slot SJ, but if I put 3 slots there I can get a 1% HP bonus. Hmm, do really need 3 damages slotted in any attack?"
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Unbounded Leap, keyed to L53, provides good +Stealth, +80% Jump, and -40% Endurance Cost. That's better than two Jumps and one EndRed, and the stealth is thrown on for free. Then the set bonusses kick in; more Jumping speed, and a few more hitpoints.
And, by the way? SJ comes with the first of those three slots. It's only TWO slots being moved from somewhere else, not all three.
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I take back the VR idea.
I just occured to me that you just keep rolling new toons and milk them for recipes and delete and repeat.
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However, if they conducted that reward ONCE ONLY, during maintenance when they push I9 to Live? Then you wouldn't have the abuse-ability factor.
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I am listening to your ideas, but a Flashback system is simply not something we can implement in a timeframe you would all be happy with.
Instead we are looking into other options to get you the Pool B choice so level 50s don't feel gimped.
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Nice to meet you Doc, looks like you've got your hands full.
I just felt the need to assure you that if there were some sort of system implemented so could 50's to go down in level without loosing their badges and do missions / jobs for contacts they've missed it would be in a time frame I'd be happy with.
Since I know some (insert word of your choice here) will come along talking about exempting down, I just want to make it clear that's not what I'm talking about.
However, for the record, if I could get missions from my own contacts while exempted / malfactored I'd consider it a fix and move on.
There is no creative impulse without discontent.
@Virlou
The analogy is only flawed if viewed for timing of release. It is dead on in demonstrating a desire to have something that is not available during my lifetime for less than a small fortune. Instead I could have said a Special Edition signed Pentultimate X-Men #1 (totally fictional comic) only available at Wizard World LA. Those who play Hero Clicks might consider it along the lines of the Wizard World only release of Spectre. It is a matter of collection and desire, not need. That was the point.
Every slot I place is very deliberately planned by myself (not hero builder or some such). Two extra slots in SJ to run a toggle I don't want to run in combat upsets my endurance plans regardless of the endurance reduction. And that is 2 slots I don't have for something else that I do normally slot which has never included Stealth. I never feel like I have enough slots as is. Maybe, if I could somehow invent a whole new slot to replace the sacrificed slots now in an SJ that was fast enough and totally unnecessary stealth bonus, I would consider it. But then again, probably not. I will only use IOs in powers where I believe the trade off in power is worth it, which I have yet to see. (Maybe once an official finalized list is released by Cryptic I will find something) The Invention Sets are great temptation to otherwise gimp a build. It is a very slippery slope to chase those special bonuses in place of optimally slotted SOs and HOs.
Every time a toon sacrifices 25% total damage for a 5% total health gain, a slain intern gets his wings. 
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I would surmise the +regen IO in Regenerative Tissue will be trumped by the +regen/+recovery IO in Numina's Convalesence, which conveniently opens up at level 30. Especially since the first set bonus for Numina's Convalesence is yet more +regen.
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IYO. Others may differ - for example, I do. My g/f does, too; she's happy with her Hurdle/Health/Stamina, and good End-red slotting, so she never has to think about Endurance - her blue bar only drops if she's facing End-Drainers. So she wouldn't care about extra +Recovery ... but her GREEN bar still drops, sometimes precipitously ... so that +20% Regen, if it can be slotted in powers like Health, she will want. LOTS.
I've a DM/Regen scrapper. I plan on getting Health and Fitness ... yeah, for the Overkill Factor. Iwon't need to even ponder the +recovery from Numina's set ... but hot DAMN, if I can slot five or six of those +Regen(20%) IOs ...?
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Opinions will differ, and time will tell how it works out in the end, but I still don't see high level characters begging for a level 30 or lower IO when a level 30-53 IO plus any other from Numina's Convalesence could provide the same benefit with an additional 9.4% recovery on top of it. Currently, ParagonWiki shows the +regen set bonus for two IOs in Numina's as a level five bonus, which means it's 300% of the base value. If the base value of the set bonus is +1%, then you're getting +18% regen and +9.4% recovery from the +Regen/+Recovery IO and any other IO from Numina's set. If the base value is 2% or more, you're getting less by keeping your level 30 +regen IO. For a /Regen scrapper I can see that easily happening in Reconstruction, Dull Pain, Integration, and Instant Healing. For my money, I'm aiming at using at least four slots from Numina's in all four of those on my Regen. That gives me the +Regen (300%), +HP (250%), and Increased Heal (300%) set bonus on each of those.
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I didn't mention the Chance of [X] procedures because I wouldn't put much faith in them unless you can stack several of the same kind.
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No, as I understand it, you can only put one of those into any given power - or else they'd be too good, and owuld have to be nerfed anyway.
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Exactly. Why would my level 50 /SR scrapper care about a 5% chance of Build Up when I can crank enough +recharge out of Quickness, Hasten and high level IOs and set bonuses to possibly get perma-Hasten again and have regular Build Up available that much more often? Not to mention Elude (though that power won't be permanent, the numbers seem to indicate it could be up more than 50% of the time if tweaked right, which is pretty tantalizing!)
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I've a DM/Regen scrapper. I plan on getting Health and Fitness ... yeah, for the Overkill Factor. Iwon't need to even ponder the +recovery from Numina's set ... but hot DAMN, if I can slot five or six of those +Regen(20%) IOs ...?
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Opinions will differ, and time will tell how it works out in the end, but I still don't see high level characters begging for a level 30 or lower IO when a level 30-53 IO plus any other from Numina's Convalesence could provide the same benefit with an additional 9.4% recovery on top of it.
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Triple-slot Health for +Heal. You get about 78%. Now, add a foruth slot - with that +Regen in it. POOF, you're effectively sidestepping ED, to bring yourself up to 98%. You simply cannot achieve that with more +Health enhancements.
Or, leave Health with the basic slot it comes with. Even with a 40% generic +Health IO/50, you get +16%. Or, you can slot that +Regen(20%, and get more.
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Currently, ParagonWiki shows the +regen set bonus for two IOs in Numina's as a level five bonus, which means it's 300% of the base value. If the base value of the set bonus is +1%, then you're getting +18% regen and +9.4% recovery from the +Regen/+Recovery IO and any other IO from Numina's set.
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Two slots, not one. That could be a key difference, yes?
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Exactly. Why would [...]
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... choice.
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If the base value is 2% or more, you're getting less by keeping your level 30 +regen IO. For a /Regen scrapper I can see that easily happening in Reconstruction, Dull Pain, Integration, and Instant Healing. For my money, I'm aiming at using at least four slots from Numina's in all four of those on my Regen. That gives me the +Regen (300%), +HP (250%), and Increased Heal (300%) set bonus on each of those.
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If you have enough of the set and feel you will lose nothing by slotting your power with it.
A Dull Pain slotted with any four of Numina's Convalesence looks to be meaningfully weaker either as a +HP power or it will come back significantly less often than a Dull Pain slotted 3/3 with SOs. That difference is going to be hard to make up with 3% and even 6% additive bonuses. If we assume it can be made up by slotting multiple sets of NC or some other set in different powers (which I might expect) now we're into convolving in a need to have additional set bonuses to exceed what we can get from a single special enhancement. The barrier to obtaining those full sets, even if it's just time, is not likely to be trivial.
Compare that to the opportunity cost of slotting one 1-3 lower-level IOs in a low-return power like Fast Healing or Health. It's of course impossible at this point to compare the time requirement for either.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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This was all in response to the original implication that one could use IOs to replace powers and/or power pools they feel forced into, Fitness/Stamina and Leaping/Acrobatics being the most often mentioned culprits. Using /Regen as an example of being able to go without Stamina is like me stating nobody needs to take Super Speed anymore, because IOs provide enough +Runspeed to equal it, and using a /SR build as an example; it's already commonly done by them now, so it's misleading to use it as an example of what might commonly be done by everyone in the future.
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You'll notice I did not use Regen as an example of any such thing. I talked exclusively about the value of slotting +Regen in a Regen's low-return Heal slots. I ignored +Recovery on a Regen because I knew full well that it's one of the last things they need.
However, I will contend that a Regen might get the "infinite endurance" effect they get today by taking both QR and Stamina by instead taking only QR and using +Recovery IOs. Thus saving an entire power pool and three powers for the low, low cost of 2-3 additional slots somewhere they might slot a heal.
I also talked about how your example Invuln could slot +Recovery and +Regen in Health and still likely come out ahead on his net regen than if he slotted Health for Heals, with a nice bonus to recovery tacked on.
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But if you want to three slot Rest, go right ahead.
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Who said anything about 3-slotting it? Just slot a Heal-compatible IO in the base slot and call it done.
But let's see. If adding a slot to Rest would get me 50% of the base benefit of Stamina (which it can with the right level-gated IO), which is about half of what I lost when ED took away six slotting, I'd do it in a hearbeat.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA