101,888 EXP in a single kill -- Can you top it?
By
Alannon,
Posted on: 2007-01-27 16:36 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Yeah, we kind of noticed that about 2-3 months ago...
"I see your words..." ~The most menacing thing a forumite could say
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In the end, just restrict all PvP gained powers to the PvP zones.
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How about this: once you zone into the PvP zones, you can't zone back out again. That would prevent powers, badges, influence, experience, inspirations, and salvage gained in those zones from ever leaving.
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/signed.
Carebears must die.
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Ok, first of all, neither of those comments make sense. For being someone that's good with numbers and thinking logically, your suggestion makes no sense Arcana. I don't know if you were trying to be funny or trying to sarcastically disagree with my idea, but if you were, you can just say so.
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What is it about PvP that makes people justified in even suggesting that PvP-related rewards should be confined to PvP-related situations. If someone said Amy should only work in Croatoa task forces, they'd be laughed off the boards.
There's lots of things I don't necessarily enjoy in the game, but I don't go around projecting the attitude that its defacto justified to marginalize them, and everyone associated with them. Shivans and Nukes are not PvP rewards. They are rewards that happen to have their prerequisites in PvP zones. Not only do I not want Shivans and Nukes to be restricted to PvP zones, I don't want *any* rewards restricted in specifically that manner without some very good justification for partitioning PvP and PvE in that way.
Its all one game to me. I would hope the devs are smart enough not to make it 150,000 meta games that happen to share the same servers.
I PvP occasionally, but infrequently. I am never going to be confused with a hard core PvPer. If PvP was never added to the game, or if it disappeared tomorrow, I wouldn't shed a tear. But its here, a percentage of the game's population enjoy it, and I respect them. Because of that, I have an extremely high hurdle to any suggestion that has as its fundamental premise marginalizing that element of the game. When you eliminate the PvP baggage associated with it, the notion that its a good idea to restrict Shivans and Nukes to the PvP zones doesn't actually make any sense at all. For one thing, good PvP balance would actually suggest the opposite: that if you are going to restrict them at all, they should be barred *from* the PvP zones. Because PvP combat requires more balance considerations than PvE combat. For another thing, the premise behind those rewards is similar to inspirations: they are intended to be used against the most difficult content that the players are likely to encounter, so barring their use from things like task forces and trials is counter productive: they would be being banned from the specific content they exist to be used for.
If the problem is the belief that some content is deliberately designed to be too strong for the average player, because the devs are taking into account the fact that players can use these temp powers (something I do *not* believe), then I do not see why singling out Shivans and Nukes are especially helpful. Inspirations are equally useful, and players with tricked out inspiration trays are equally unbalancing. They should be disallowed also.
If the problem isn't one of the strength of those powers, but rather their prerequisite, then I'm sorry but the fact you need to enter a PvP zone to acquire them - but have no specific requirement to actually engage in PvP combat - is no more impressive to me than that you have to hunt a thousand Rikti monkeys or a ton of Master Illusionist decoys to get an accolade.
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Seriously, would making it so that you could only use Shivans, Nukes and Mechs in the PvP zones ruin your PvE game?
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Ruin it? No, certainly not. But I must say that Shivans have made my PvE life *MUCH* more enjoyable. I play at odd hours sometimes, and I do things like leave my character in a mission while I go AFK for an extended period of time. In that situation I must solo, since I'd never be that rude to a team.
I don't use Shivans constantly, but they come in extremely handy for Elite Bosses. Many folks get annoyed at the bragging of soloing AVs, but we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that not all of us are running min-max'd characters that can solo EB's easily, forget about AVs! For some of my characters, having a Shivan means the difference between being able to take down an EB vs. lots of debt.
I can't speak to nukes since I never get them, but I sincerely hope they don't alter Shivans.
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What is it about PvP that makes people justified in even suggesting that PvP-related rewards should be confined to PvP-related situations. If someone said Amy should only work in Croatoa task forces, they'd be laughed off the boards.
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I'm not sure if you actually want an explanation or not, but I'm going to try to give one in case you do.
PvP smack talk and insults aside (that's what the ignore feature is for), Mary Macomber will not show up in Croatoa while you are doing your kill X task, trying to find Sally, or whatever other activity you are interested in doing at the moment, and kill you in 2 seconds with no chance of survival or retaliation. She also will not then decide to repeat it until you leave the zone if you ask her to stop, just to piss you off.
She will not get 7 of her buddies to kill you while you are solo, or camp the Tram so you and a few other random people (who may not want to team with you to help you out) can't get out into the zone.
If you actually decide to try to deal with the issue by getting a team (which usually won't help, given that team in those zones usually want to PvP, not help keep PvPers off of you while you do your PvE task), she will not continually teleport you out of the team so that her friends can kill you in half a second before yours can react.
She will not show up, kill you instantly from stealth because your friends don't have 3 sets of tactics, and then jump/teleport away before your teammates can even retaliate. All. Night. Long.
These are things I learned that Mary will not do during one of the few times I've either tried giving PvP in this game "another chance", or when I had to be in Siren's for 5 hours on my Brute for the Born in Battle Accolade.
So yeah, the Croatoa TF just doesn't tend to foster loathing quite the same way that PvP does, because while it may make you fight an AV 10 times in a row, and only give you one SO drop, you have a much larger population to draw from to deal with it (PvEers), and Mary doesn't turn into a cheap-[censored] when she's losing (or just because she enjoys it).
Also, let me know if I'm mistaken here, but I believe once you run out of Amy uses, you can never get her again, while you can always restock Shivans. This makes Amy a toy of sorts, and Shivans a tool that can be used whenever you like, as long as you're willing to spend the time and PvP risk to get it.
If Amy was replenishable, I think 8 free empaths might make staying alive on the Statesman TF pretty trivial. Would you see calls to have her "nerfed"? Probably not by many, as the Croatoa TF is actually pretty fun in the same way that the Statesman TF probably will be. So, people would just do it, because they don't have to deal with Mary being a jackass and camping the Missile Command thingie with Hurricane on, while her teammates keep her alive for just the 5 minutes needed to make you start all over again.
Note: this is not a logical argument in an attempt to get you to agree with my opinion about PvP. It's just why people feel justified in wanting PvP and PvE to be separate: they feel like completely different games to some people, and one of those games isn't one they want to be playing. Many also believe, even though you don't, that PvP shoved into a PvE game often negatively impacts PvE game mechanics. Some believe that the power of the PvP temp powers is affecting the difficulty of a PvE task that they want to be involved in, because they can't see another reason why it would be so freaking hard. You've explained to me an alternate reason (the Devs just want it to be so freaking hard, and aren't necessarily concerned about the PvP temp powers), and I accept that as a likelyhood, but others may not.
You may think they are wrong-- but that is why they feel justified.
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Those are all good reasons for not liking PvP, and I'm not ignorant of them. But those are not good reasons for imposing that dislike upon the game design arbitrarily. I recognize that we all advocate for what we want, but there are limits. When I am advocating for what I personally want, I specify that, separate from when I'm advocating for what I think will be good for the game as a whole. In both cases, they are a matter of my opinion and judgement, and I might be wrong, but I make the distinction nevertheless.
If I absolutely hated PvP, I might tell the devs that, speaking as one person, I would prefer the game focus on other things. But I would not suggest that the game itself would be automatically better if it didn't have it, unless I had a much better reason than that.
Its like suggesting that Pizza Hut stop serving bell peppers, because not everyone likes bell peppers, and if they did, they could spend more time making their pepperoni and mushroom toppings better. Its totally irrelevant as to whether the statement is a true statement or not: the question is whether its a reasonable suggestion even if true.
As an aside, most of the objections to PvP refer to the influence of PvP on the game community, and individual players exposed to it. But really, you can turn off your chat window and make a run for the badges in the PvP zones, and pretend the other players are really good NPCs populating the zones. I think a lot of the distaste for PvP is really manufactured: many players see the game as "us" players verses "them" the developers, and they see players hunting players as a form of treason. If NCSoft hired a bunch of employees to control the NPCs in a special zone that had similar rewards as the PvP zones, with strict instructions to kill as many players as possible, I don't think most players would see that situation in the same light as PvP, even factoring out the trash talk. Because now the humans doing the killing are "just doing their jobs." Its not a form of treason, its just another form of game challenge.
An amazing form of perspective reversal, just because of a paystub.
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Can you top this single bonus in double exp weekend? I soloed Ghost Widow and nearly got 1.5 bubbles in a single kill.
Check out the combat log
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Killing Lord Recluse gives more experience then that during normal xp play. During the double xp weekend my 35 dom was lked up in a Lord Recluse mission. I got close to 180k, and one of my team members said he got close to 600k. On my 50's I do remember getting somewhere close to 300k for him when I was around 47 or so, so the 600k seems about right.
Too many characters to fit in this space.
If you lay down and give up you have no one to blame but yourself. If you stand up and fight you'll have no one to blame because you've already won.
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What is it about PvP that makes people justified in even suggesting that PvP-related rewards should be confined to PvP-related situations. If someone said Amy should only work in Croatoa task forces, they'd be laughed off the boards.
There's lots of things I don't necessarily enjoy in the game, but I don't go around projecting the attitude that its defacto justified to marginalize them, and everyone associated with them. Shivans and Nukes are not PvP rewards. They are rewards that happen to have their prerequisites in PvP zones. Not only do I not want Shivans and Nukes to be restricted to PvP zones, I don't want *any* rewards restricted in specifically that manner without some very good justification for partitioning PvP and PvE in that way.
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Omg dude, slow down. This has NOTHING to do with PvP. This has NOTHING to do with separating games or anything crazy like that. I love PvP and PvP a lot. In fact, I just finished grinding my 3rd Blaster to 50 and he's specifically made for PvP. Look:
<ul type="square">[*] Thread is started saying "look at what I did and how much XP I got." Everyone says cool and I agree, that's a ton of xp. Then you look at the side of the picture and you see a Shivan.
[*] People start talking about how cool Shivans are and how they and nukes help people solo crazy things and do other hard tasks.
[*] Castle pops in and says that yeah, we know they're good and we like them too. He briefly mentions that they know the powers are "over the top", but doesn't say anything about changing them or reducing them.
[*] People start thinking they're going to get nerfed. No one likes nerfs, everyone loves the powers. I love the powers.
[*] Insert my "suggestion" (and I believe everyone is entitled to suggest something) about just restricting them to PvP zones INSTEAD of nerfing/changing them.
[*] Insert argument about carebears and restrictions and all this other stuff over a suggestion.
[*] Castle comes back and says nothing is changing. End of my suggestion, end of story. Everyone is happy.[/list]
If my suggestion came off as a giant loud scream to change the game because I have some kind of "right" because it somehow seemed I didn't like PvP in "my" PvE game, then I apologize, but that's nowhere near what I was going for. All I was trying to say was, if they wanted, they could put them in just the PvP zones so that they don't have to be changed and don't affect the PvE the way they do now (all of this before Castle's QR). End of story.
Now PERSONALLY I don't like them being used so much in PvE because they make stuff way to easy and some things that aren't normally supposed to be doable solo, soloable. It's just "my" opinion and everyone can play their game the way they want, hey, have fun, it's what you come to play the game for. It just confuses me to hear people say stuff like...
"Zomg dudes, we just took down a GM with just 3 people and didn't get touched ONCE! Well, ok, we used 4 nukes, 3 Shivans with Vengeance and armors, 2 Amys and a Warwolf, but still!"
..and they expect some kind of mad props for doing it. So? I mean, hey, good for you, but anyone can do that if they had all that stuff with them. There was no skill involved.
Where's the challenge? Where's the feeling of solid accomplishment? People start complaining about stuff being so easy and that the RSF is a joke when it was originally hailed as the "hardest thing in the game". That's what gets to me. I applaud those that can do the RSF with no nukes or shivans and less then 8 people. I've heard of 5 person teams using no crazy temp powers finish it in record time, and that's amazing.
Like I said, that part of my posts are just my opinion, no one has to agree with it or anything like that. You don't have to read it, and if you do, my god, then just forget it if you don't like it. I'm with you, I don't like seeing PvE changed because of PvP or one thing working one way in this place and another thing working another way someplace else. I feel the whole game should be looked at in terms of balance. Some things may not always work out, but that's expected. Anyways, I hope that clears things up.
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Its like suggesting that Pizza Hut stop serving bell peppers, because not everyone likes bell peppers, and if they did, they could spend more time making their pepperoni and mushroom toppings better. Its totally irrelevant as to whether the statement is a true statement or not: the question is whether its a reasonable suggestion even if true.
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I'm not so sure that comparison is a very good one, Arc. The customer who orders bell peppers can't ruin the other customers' experience in Pizza Hut because they think it's a fun idea to be a jerk.
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As an aside, most of the objections to PvP refer to the influence of PvP on the game community, and individual players exposed to it. But really, you can turn off your chat window and make a run for the badges in the PvP zones, and pretend the other players are really good NPCs populating the zones. I think a lot of the distaste for PvP is really manufactured: many players see the game as "us" players verses "them" the developers, and they see players hunting players as a form of treason. If NCSoft hired a bunch of employees to control the NPCs in a special zone that had similar rewards as the PvP zones, with strict instructions to kill as many players as possible, I don't think most players would see that situation in the same light as PvP, even factoring out the trash talk. Because now the humans doing the killing are "just doing their jobs." Its not a form of treason, its just another form of game challenge.
An amazing form of perspective reversal, just because of a paystub.
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On the contrary... I think it would make the matter even worse. In the end, the main reason why I avoid PvP in -any- game like the plague is simple; It's one thing to be killed by a computer controlled NPC, but being targeted, attacked and killed by an actual human being is another story... it's difficult for me not to take it personally and resent that player. This is why I don't play Street Fighter games, as well. If NCSoft actually hired GMs to play NPCs and it was their job to kill as many players as possible, people would have no one to resent but the company that hired them... as a result, you'd have a lot of people quitting the game. I really don't see the "us vs them" mentality, at least not in myself. I play to relieve stress, not to obtain more. For me, PvP = stress.
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What is it about PvP that makes people justified in even suggesting that PvP-related rewards should be confined to PvP-related situations. If someone said Amy should only work in Croatoa task forces, they'd be laughed off the boards.
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I'm not sure if you actually want an explanation or not, but I'm going to try to give one in case you do.
PvP smack talk and insults aside (that's what the ignore feature is for), Mary Macomber will not show up in Croatoa while you are doing your kill X task, trying to find Sally, or whatever other activity you are interested in doing at the moment, and kill you in 2 seconds with no chance of survival or retaliation. She also will not then decide to repeat it until you leave the zone if you ask her to stop, just to piss you off.
She will not get 7 of her buddies to kill you while you are solo, or camp the Tram so you and a few other random people (who may not want to team with you to help you out) can't get out into the zone.
If you actually decide to try to deal with the issue by getting a team (which usually won't help, given that team in those zones usually want to PvP, not help keep PvPers off of you while you do your PvE task), she will not continually teleport you out of the team so that her friends can kill you in half a second before yours can react.
She will not show up, kill you instantly from stealth because your friends don't have 3 sets of tactics, and then jump/teleport away before your teammates can even retaliate. All. Night. Long.
These are things I learned that Mary will not do during one of the few times I've either tried giving PvP in this game "another chance", or when I had to be in Siren's for 5 hours on my Brute for the Born in Battle Accolade.
So yeah, the Croatoa TF just doesn't tend to foster loathing quite the same way that PvP does, because while it may make you fight an AV 10 times in a row, and only give you one SO drop, you have a much larger population to draw from to deal with it (PvEers), and Mary doesn't turn into a cheap-[censored] when she's losing (or just because she enjoys it).
Also, let me know if I'm mistaken here, but I believe once you run out of Amy uses, you can never get her again, while you can always restock Shivans. This makes Amy a toy of sorts, and Shivans a tool that can be used whenever you like, as long as you're willing to spend the time and PvP risk to get it.
If Amy was replenishable, I think 8 free empaths might make staying alive on the Statesman TF pretty trivial. Would you see calls to have her "nerfed"? Probably not by many, as the Croatoa TF is actually pretty fun in the same way that the Statesman TF probably will be. So, people would just do it, because they don't have to deal with Mary being a jackass and camping the Missile Command thingie with Hurricane on, while her teammates keep her alive for just the 5 minutes needed to make you start all over again.
Note: this is not a logical argument in an attempt to get you to agree with my opinion about PvP. It's just why people feel justified in wanting PvP and PvE to be separate: they feel like completely different games to some people, and one of those games isn't one they want to be playing. Many also believe, even though you don't, that PvP shoved into a PvE game often negatively impacts PvE game mechanics. Some believe that the power of the PvP temp powers is affecting the difficulty of a PvE task that they want to be involved in, because they can't see another reason why it would be so freaking hard. You've explained to me an alternate reason (the Devs just want it to be so freaking hard, and aren't necessarily concerned about the PvP temp powers), and I accept that as a likelyhood, but others may not.
You may think they are wrong-- but that is why they feel justified.
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Liquid, stay out of my head!!!
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Its like suggesting that Pizza Hut stop serving bell peppers, because not everyone likes bell peppers, and if they did, they could spend more time making their pepperoni and mushroom toppings better. Its totally irrelevant as to whether the statement is a true statement or not: the question is whether its a reasonable suggestion even if true.
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It's really not like that. Asking for bell peppers to be no longer served is like asking for PvP to be removed from the game entirely.
What it is like, is like going into Pizza Hut after enjoying their vegetarian pizza for a year, and finding that it tastes radically different, and makes you a little queasy. You then notice that they have 3 new Meatlovers pizzas, and you wonder... are they cooking the pizzas on the same pan as the Meatlovers?
They *say* they aren't, and give you other reasons for why the vegetarian pizza is different, but it's still hard to stomach. (ba-dum-tch)
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All I was trying to say was, if they wanted, they could put them in just the PvP zones so that they don't have to be changed and don't affect the PvE the way they do now (all of this before Castle's QR). End of story.
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This reminds me of the bit about 2:14 into this Daily Show clip where Jon Stewart shows a picture of John McCain with glowing red eyes.
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what a goober adding more stars to his topic ^_^
<3 
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I think a lot of the distaste for PvP is really manufactured: many players see the game as "us" players verses "them" the developers, and they see players hunting players as a form of treason.
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I can't speak for others, but that's not what I'm thinking. It has everything to do with: PvP being un-fun due to character build imbalance (often, but not exclusively resulting from PvE builds being much less effective from PvP ones), population imbalance in pvp zones (it seems every time I go in one side is outnumbered dramatically), and that percentage of jerks that do crap like kill-and-runs on the defender.
I thoroughly enjoy PvP in games like Quake and Street Fighter, so it's not just about playing against other players.
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If NCSoft hired a bunch of employees to control the NPCs in a special zone that had similar rewards as the PvP zones, with strict instructions to kill as many players as possible, I don't think most players would see that situation in the same light as PvP, even factoring out the trash talk. Because now the humans doing the killing are "just doing their jobs." Its not a form of treason, its just another form of game challenge.
An amazing form of perspective reversal, just because of a paystub.
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It depends on how they did it. If they were told to kill players *by whatever means possible*, then you'd still have ganking, griefing, and cheap tactics. I most certainly would not want to play if a dev was running Eochai all over Croatoa and ganking people as they try to complete their kill tasks, or if devs controlled spawns, and 4 of them ran their spawns up to the front of the mission and repeatedly killed players as they zoned in.
It would take a very well managed team of dev players for such a situation to work well.
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I thoroughly enjoy PvP in games like Quake and Street Fighter, so it's not just about playing against other players.
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Aw crap, so it's just me? 
This thread is legendary lets look at what we have:
Hot Chicks
Well, some people find Ghost Widow attractive
Shivans and Nukes
Need I say more
Me TRANSFORMING into Optimus... Prime
Yes, I am now forever known as Optimus via Castle
Castle, the number guy
Are Shivans and Nukes getting nerfed? Only he knows
Pizza Hut
Hungry? Why wait? (Oh thats Snickers)
PVP vs PVE vs Carebears
One of the most epic fights ever
Arch Villain Soloing
I am famous for these
Double Exp
I love double Exp don't you?
Legacy of Kain discussion
Was that this thread? If not *Points to avatar* lets talk about it!
Tons of rates on the thread
Yep I 5 starred this thread over 100 times and then everyone else proceeded to follow suit with a 1 star.
People shout HACKS
I managed to 5 star my thread 100 times, next I will take over everyone's account information. 5 starring my thread just the next to last step!
You totally missed Street Fighter and the Daily Show. I didn't plug those for nuthin'.
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And chess... and D&D...
I can completely understand why a lot of people hate pvp and are afraid to go get badges in pvp zones, but this huge gank fest they fear is a figment of their imagination...
I play on Freedom, the busiest server, I love to pvp, but I have not seen this huge gank fest anti-pvpers are so terrified of. Heck, most of the time the pvp zones are empty...I pvp several times a week and quite often when I do a /whoall search, I only see maybe five to six people.
If you are searching during peak times, you might have been unlucky enough to run into a group looking to ruin someone's day, but let me tell you, that is not usually the case. I actively look for people to pvp with and quite often it actually takes me a while of searching to even find someone to fight, and that is in Siren's which has the most people.
Bloody Bay is generally even more unpopulated! You should EASILY be able to get Shivans without dying all the time, sure some stalker or blaster is going to get you here and there, but the gank fest should and is very limited.
If you are still having problems and really need a badge or whatever, get on right before or after the servers go down, the zones are completely empty a lot of the time then.
There really is no reason at all to be upset these things are in pvp zones. They put them there so they would be more challenging to get. Unless you are turning off sprint and walking to each mission, etc. There is no reason you can't get there easily wihtout even being seen, much less attacked.
In fact I went to Bloody Bay to get my toy collector badge so that I could fight some to dull the boredum of present hunting. I found that since so few peope actually go to these zones getting all the presents was fast and easy. During the hours and hours I hunted I maybe fought ten different people...
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Ruin it? No, certainly not. But I must say that Shivans have made my PvE life *MUCH* more enjoyable.
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While I technically agree with that statement above, I do not believe that it is a testimony of the benefit of Shivans, but instead of the borked design with the regen rates of AVs and GMs. One has but to try fighting an even con Diabolique AV without a Rad or Kin to realize that the sheer frustration does not equal "fun".
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I can completely understand why a lot of people hate pvp and are afraid to go get badges in pvp zones, but this huge gank fest they fear is a figment of their imagination...
I play on Freedom, the busiest server, I love to pvp, but I have not seen this huge gank fest anti-pvpers are so terrified of.
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I have never seen Canada, but I'm reasonably sure it exists...maybe. I have witnessed and personally experienced the said gank fest, its existence is never in doubt.
The only thing worse than devs making bad decisions is the hoard of fanboys and bootlickers that keep cheering them on.
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(Quick Reply)
Just to clear up:
No, we're not discussing any changes to Shivan's or the Warburg Nukes at this time. Shivan's are easier to get than anticipated, but even that is not likely to be changed in the near future. My original post was meant to show that we knew how these powers were being used -- and that is all.
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For starters - just cut it down to 3 uses per acquisition. That might go a long way to solving any problems.
For seconds - limit it to three acquisitions, EVER. That should finish up the job.
^_^
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<.< don't be silly, that mmo is in production by tronk inc
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That doesn't matter; once they find out it's hard, they'll sue Cryptic/NCSoft 'cause you can build robots in CoX, then when they lose, they'll hire Cryptic to write it.
Then comes pie.
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(Quick Reply)
Just to clear up:
No, we're not discussing any changes to Shivan's or the Warburg Nukes at this time. Shivan's are easier to get than anticipated, but even that is not likely to be changed in the near future. My original post was meant to show that we knew how these powers were being used -- and that is all.
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The only change I'd like to see is a mandate preventing ANYONE who uses Shivan's or Nuke's from saying they "solo'ed an AV." It just ain't right!
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I also demand that anyone who uses temp powers stop calling themselves a "soloist" in general! Next they'll be relying on "enhancements"!
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I can completely understand why a lot of people hate pvp and are afraid to go get badges in pvp zones, but this huge gank fest they fear is a figment of their imagination...
I play on Freedom, the busiest server, I love to pvp, but I have not seen this huge gank fest anti-pvpers are so terrified of.
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So I guess all the experiences I've had were just a figment of my imagination? It'd be one thing if I were speculating, but I'm not... it's actually happened to me, a lot.
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Heck, most of the time the pvp zones are empty...I pvp several times a week and quite often when I do a /whoall search, I only see maybe five to six people.
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That could also be because /hide makes it so you don't register on a /whoall. A lot of people /hide in PvP zones.
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If you are searching during peak times, you might have been unlucky enough to run into a group looking to ruin someone's day, but let me tell you, that is not usually the case. I actively look for people to pvp with and quite often it actually takes me a while of searching to even find someone to fight, and that is in Siren's which has the most people.
Bloody Bay is generally even more unpopulated! You should EASILY be able to get Shivans without dying all the time, sure some stalker or blaster is going to get you here and there, but the gank fest should and is very limited.
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I can get Shivans without being harassed, but there has not been a single time in which I've attempted to get a Warburg Rocket (heck all I really wanted was the badge) when there wasn't at least one jerk camping the bunker.
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If you are still having problems and really need a badge or whatever, get on right before or after the servers go down, the zones are completely empty a lot of the time then.
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Even my own sg mates have suggested that, but unfortunately I don't have that luxury. I go to bed when my wife does, and we can't afford to stay up at all hours when we have to get up at 7am every morning with our 2 year old daughter.
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There really is no reason at all to be upset these things are in pvp zones. They put them there so they would be more challenging to get.
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That's a whole can of worms in and of itself... my beef is that the devs have set it up so that if you want to be a badge hunter, you have to play -both- games... pvp and pve. I find this interesting considering how many pvp players don't seem to care about content. (NOT generalizing, btw so no flames please... that's essentially speculation based on the PvPers I've known as well as many of their posts on the forums.)
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Unless you are turning off sprint and walking to each mission, etc. There is no reason you can't get there easily wihtout even being seen, much less attacked.
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For exploration badges, maybe... for the missions in the zones, maybe. For everything else, not so much. Hunting for Blue Ink Men, or Mu Guardians or Toxic Tarantulas or whatever is bound to eventually attract gankers... and don't even get me started on the Warburg Nuke runs.
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In fact I went to Bloody Bay to get my toy collector badge so that I could fight some to dull the boredum of present hunting. I found that since so few peope actually go to these zones getting all the presents was fast and easy. During the hours and hours I hunted I maybe fought ten different people...
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I sure don't fault you for your playstyle... In fact, I'd -never- gripe about PvP in this game again if it never affected my playstyle. As it stands though (until I get every badge in those zones and until Shivans are no longer needed), it does.
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(Quick Reply)
Just to clear up:
No, we're not discussing any changes to Shivan's or the Warburg Nukes at this time. Shivan's are easier to get than anticipated, but even that is not likely to be changed in the near future. My original post was meant to show that we knew how these powers were being used -- and that is all.
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The only change I'd like to see is a mandate preventing ANYONE who uses Shivan's or Nuke's from saying they "solo'ed an AV." It just ain't right!
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I also demand that anyone who uses temp powers stop calling themselves a "soloist" in general! Next they'll be relying on "enhancements"!
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Nah, I say that to get true bragging rights, you have to have soloed a Recluse's Victory AV.
Two things:
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Its like suggesting that Pizza Hut stop serving bell peppers, because not everyone likes bell peppers, and if they did, they could spend more time making their pepperoni and mushroom toppings better. Its totally irrelevant as to whether the statement is a true statement or not: the question is whether its a reasonable suggestion even if true.
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It's really not like that. Asking for bell peppers to be no longer served is like asking for PvP to be removed from the game entirely.
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Yes, "it" is really like that, because the "it" the passage you quote specifically refers to the sentence immediately preceding it, which you didn't quote with this passage:
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If I absolutely hated PvP, I might tell the devs that, speaking as one person, I would prefer the game focus on other things. But I would not suggest that the game itself would be automatically better if it didn't have it, unless I had a much better reason than that.
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Also:
ZadkielSalubri:
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I'm not so sure that comparison is a very good one, Arc. The customer who orders bell peppers can't ruin the other customers' experience in Pizza Hut because they think it's a fun idea to be a jerk.
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That's also off the point of the analogy. The entire post being quoted in both places is in reference to a previous statement I made, which was:
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What is it about PvP that makes people justified in even suggesting that PvP-related rewards should be confined to PvP-related situations.
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Because *nowhere else* is it seen as remotely palatable to make such a suggestion. No one *ever* suggested that rather than nerf kora fruit, we just limit it to shadow shard missions. Because while few wanted them nerfed, virtually everyone would rather have rewards you can use everywhere, than even stronger ones that are extremely limited in where they can be used. *A couple* of people suggested that Hamidon enhancements be only useful against Hamidon himself, rather than reduced in effectiveness, and that was almost universally seen as a bad idea (and for similar reasons I think restricting shivans and nukes to the PvP zones would be an equally bad balance idea).
But my objection is not a balance objection: my objection is that such suggestions are extremely rare or non-existent in every context but in PvP, where they are common. And while I agree that essentially every PvP objection brought up in this thread is a valid issue with PvP, it nevertheless violates my sense of fairness to treat PvP (and by extension PvP players) in this way. I believe restriction suggestions like that proposed for Shivans and Nukes all implicitly have the premise that its ok to marginalize PvP. I don't agree: I believe they have to pass the same tests as all other suggestions do regardless of their involvement with PvP. Which means in this case, two things that seemingly are taken for granted by most I don't:
1. If Shivans and Nukes are seen as too powerful, why would anyone advocate allowing their use in PvP? PvP has stronger balance requirements than PvE, and if Shivans and Nukes are overpowered, the *first* place to ban them is specifically in the PvP zones. Suggesting the reverse, that they be used *only* in PvP zones, but allowed elsewhere, is untenable unless you believe PvP balance is irrelevant, because PvP is significantly less important, and its fine to make it the dumping ground for balance issues. Lets just say I happen to disagree.
2. The design *purpose* of the Shivans and Nukes is obviously to be allowed to use in the most challenging circumstances the player might face. Restricting them from being used in those situations circumvents their design purpose. Why continue to have them at all? The presumption is that the only people who get them are people who are willing to tolerate PvP, and such people don't count. Saying "you can still use them in PvP" is a discriminating brush stroke: it says "you are willing to get them, therefore you are a PvP person, so you shouldn't mind if we restrict some of your activities to PvP only."
I don't use shivans or nukes in PvP. Moreover, I would be totally happy if they were barred *from* PvP, because of balance issues. So for me, restricting shivans and nukes to the PvP zones only, is the absolute worst of all possible options. It only looks good because the dumping ground for the problems is largely in PvP, and that of course doesn't count.
The irony is that this suggestion takes something away from the PvE experience, but doesn't replace it with anything. Its an Anti-PvE suggestion, it just doesn't look like one because of (what I believe to be) the mistaken belief that without Shivans and Nukes, the devs would improve the PvE experience in ways a lot of people seem to believe they are currently *prevented* from doing, but which I would assess as having essentially zero probability of occuring. So its an anti-PvP suggesstion, and an anti-PvE suggestion simultaneously. I seem to be in a minority of one that sees it that way, though.
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In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
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(Quick Reply)
Just to clear up:
No, we're not discussing any changes to Shivan's or the Warburg Nukes at this time. Shivan's are easier to get than anticipated, but even that is not likely to be changed in the near future. My original post was meant to show that we knew how these powers were being used -- and that is all.
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but you are making the transformers MMO right, that Optimus slip was an unintentional leak of info yes?
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So, I'm guessing no-one's noticed this lying around?
You see the oddest things in the Sharkhead Isles Docks...
If that's not a slip...
Just sayin'...