Wanted to shoot out an idea to make bases popular
By
Ahkileez,
Posted on: 2006-11-02 15:34 in Base Construction
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I was just having this thought myself. I spent a few hours on Saturday reworking my alt SG base. This SG is comprised of the alts of about six people. Most are very casual players, so my husband and I share the base editing duties.
It occured to me that I'd really like to give the other people permissions so they can each decorate a room of their own some day... but as things stand now, that isn't going to happen. It would be really nice to have several tiers of base editing permissions: like a master architect who can edit common areas, and allowing other members edit permissions for personal space. It would also be nice if there were trophies people could display for personal accomplishments (maybe based on badges). Oh well...
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Personally, I'd want my trophies based on Mission Souvineers and/or Salvage, since they're all really cool.
And while I'm dreaming, I'd like all the Task Force and Trials to have their souvineers reinstated...
Tygara - 50 Claws/Regen/Power Scrapper, Virtue- Member of Kitties on the Prowl.
Shadeburn - Dark/Rad Defender, Virtue- Member of Catch 'Em Crew
Nature Boy' - Elec/Ice Blaster, Virtue - Member of Young Phalanx
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I think most people would just like either
a: a personal storage locker in base
b: a personal storage locker in base
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ok, but what would you put in these personal lockers...
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Enhancements, salvage, and influence.
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At this point , i would just let players e-mail themselve enhancements and influence and get rid of the base concept. Many people seem only to be mostly interested into the "storage" facility which really can be useful for transfering stuff to alternate characters. I wonder if we need big bases and all that just to achieve this. So far , i have zilch interest in bases and i despise prestige system . For me , gaining prestige means losing influence . And influence is far more important for the gameplay than prestige . It really is that simple . The only useful thing ive seen in bases so far is the teleporter device. I only wish devs had spent the time they were creating base items to create new costume options 
I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
Voltaire
personal bases are [censored] retarded, srsly dudez
Well, In my opinion. a personal customised space/apartment/mini-base seems to be a great idea to me.
Costumes are popular because you are able to make whatever you want to your own tastes (or lack therof 
) and personal "base" would be a extension of that. a additional tool to identify with your character. Also a place to store that odd enhancement you can't use yet, a place to stuff salvage to save for gadgetry or other purposes.
But Frankly, its the character personalization thats the point here. For RP or simply for imagination. a framework to work your concepts/ideas around. Function and gameplay is one aspect of this MMO, another is imagination and aesthetic creativity even if its only for your own amusement or interest.
and this is why I keep coming back to COH/V year after year, It allows this to greater extent than any other I've played. Any effort to improve this aspect especially is to be encouraged.
But that is, of course, My own opinion.... but I doubt I'm a minority of one here.
One thing I don't like about personal living quarters in bases is this: what happens if you get kicked from a SG? I don't like the idea that I would spend time/money working on my own space, then not have access to it because someone else decides to kick me out to make room for a friend, or just because they're a jerk.
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...
But this does beg the question - what about players who don't belong to an SG? They get to miss out on a nice corner of Paragon City to call their own? What if those players could have, say, an apartment in Steel Canyon?
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I agree. I really think the tech for bases should be applied to letting people have their own personal apartments/bases. It's been stated by the devs that they don't ever want people to feel they're forced to group. But one of the coolest features in the game, the ability to have customizable and useful living/meeting quarters is dependent on permanently grouping with people.
Give me my own apartment. Let me put in my own workbenches (like Batman in his cave). If you want supergroups to have some advantages, let the items of power, etc., be restricted to them, but at least let me have my own space with at least some functionality.
Arc ID#30821, A Clean Break
The only problem with defeating the Tsoo is that an hour later, you want to defeat them again!
"Life is just better boosted!" -- LadyMage
"I'm a big believer in Personal Force Field on a blaster. ... It's your happy place." -- Fulmens
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At this point , i would just let players e-mail themselve enhancements and influence and get rid of the base concept.
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Personal storage/transfer and contributing to group resources don't have to be mutually exclusive, you know.
Look at Halloween loot for example. My group (I'm sure others did similar things) set up a specific bin for event salvage to pool the drops among the group so everyone could get a costume slot on whatever alts wanted it.
It simply cannot be overstated the impact that even seemingly trivial things like this can have on group cohesion.
@Mindshadow
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OK, seems that Statesman knows that bases aren't as popular as he wanted. The situation is simple, what you have is maybe 1 or a few people designing the base. It becomes exactly what they'd want for a personal corner of the CoX universe and then everyone else in the SG simply gets to borrow it. So you have a whole SG paying for someone elses dream.
If you wanted a comparason, its like placing a maintainence cost on your costume. However 3 other players on the game cannot choose what they're character looks like as they are only allowed to look like you. On top of that fact you and these other 3 people have to keep playing the game in a state which brings them some personal loss in order to maintain their costume or have it revert to something generic.
Thats the problem. Bases aren't actually for every player, they're for those who start SGs and have admin rights.
The solution is simple. Personal player housing through SG bases.
The concept is that you're allowed to have a personal plot starting with a 4x4 room however in order to own that plot you need to join an SG. Once you join one the SG will have either doors or portals which you can enter to walk into your personal plot or other players personal plots. Inside a plot the owners has almost complete access to what the base designer tool offers but only in that room. They can make it look anyway they want and because its isolated from the main base it doesn't have to clash with the SG base's design. Prestige is generated almost as normal with one exception - all prestige goes right into a personal bank account. You can then choose to donate an amount to the SG or use it on your personal plot.
To keep things interesting though the player cannot add any functional items to their personal plot. No telepads, no medibay, no work stations. These are SG base only items. Additionally if the rent isn't maintained on the SG base as a whole then when the base shuts down the personal plots are shut down as well meaning its in everyones best interests to keep the prestige donations coming.
This idea solves both problems in one go. Everyone gets a 'base' that they can expand and develop for themselves which others can wander into any time you allow them in for a look plus you have the need to join an SG base and need to develop an SG base which provides a unified goal to the members.
Thoughts?
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First thought is that people wanting to make things for their rooms are dependant on 1 or 2 people making work tables. As has been said in another group some SGs don't maintain worktables so that none "admin rights" players can't put personal items in the base.
Maybe a personal space would come with a built-in worktable.... and things made would not be able to be taken out of the room... and nothing functional could be made. Just decorative.
Draugadan
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I think personal apartments should be:
Free upon joining or creating a Supergroup
An empty, fully customizable Oversight Room (50,000 value)
Situated in the free dormitory wing that all bases would have. This dormitory area is nonraidable, can't contain items of power, and is farking huge enough for 75 3x3 apartments and corridors to walk between them.
If it's not too much trouble to code, "portable." They're tied to the character, not the group, and if you change groups, it gets plugged into an available slot in the new group's base. Members with base editing privileges can move, but not edit or delete the room. The owner of the room can delete, edit or recreate it.
The dormitory would be accessible from the base by a door or elevator, and would exist on a separate plot. Ideally the plot would be in the same instance as the common area, like multi-level missions, but that might create unacceptable load times for someone in a 75-player group that just wants to use the common area but has to load 75 uniquely decorated apartments.
Problem: Several players drop tier-3 workbenches in their rooms, completely draining the entire base of prestige, control and power.
Solution: Each apartment is responsible for its own power and control. As for Prestige, maybe the rooms have separate accounts for that, too, equal to 20,000 plus the member's earnings.
Problem: The dormitory plot has to be laid out by someone. Someone has to lay corridors to the rooms and decorate those corridors. What if someone with base ediing permission completely fills the dormitory level so nobody can drop an apartment into it?
Solution: Limit the plot so some areas are zoned as 'corridor space' and some are 'apartment space.'
Better solution: Discuss it with your group. If they won't make room for your pad, you can look for a new group.
If the supergroup computer functioned similar to newspaper missions all the sudden bases would be very popular. Short SG only missions available at your super base.
Juzam
Tanker aficionado
Lead me, follow me, or get out of my way.
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I think most people would just like either
a: a personal storage locker in base
b: a personal storage locker in base
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Exactly.
Personal housing through the sg base is risky because occasionally sg members do have fallings-out and someone will getkicked/leave. Will the personal housing be locked out from access then?
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Once I knew the bases weren't going to be actual locations, I kind of lost interest. When I originally heard they were coming, I thought it was going to be like this:
"The Liberty Patrol, huh? Where's your base?"
"Talos Island. Due west of the Tech Shop. Can't miss it."
Instead, it was:
"The Liberty Patrol, huh? Where's your base?"
"You know that little glowing column of light in every major zone? That's us."
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This was exactly my thought, and most of my friends echo this feeling. What's more, I have a solution for the Devs!
Make it so we can set certain doors as the "ground" entrance to our base. There are huge sky scrapers, sewer entrances, and various unnamed buildings sitting all over Paragon and the Rogue Isles. Make a hand full of those doors base entrances that can be selected.
Now, not everyone would have their own door. If you made one of those skyscrapes in Atlas park a base entrance, Lots of super groups could use that door to get to their base. Different floors. Same holds fo sewer bases and most any door you would use for a base entrance.
All the portal corp entrances would need to stay were they are, but being able to walk into a certain door and enter my base would be awesome.
Read through this so far and here is my 2 cents.
A base should benefit the SG as a whole workbenches, teleporters, med bay, IoP... Players want their own place they can edit. So create a doorway in the SG that when clicked gives a list of the SG members who have an apartment. Any SG member can visit in SG member pad from the base. The player's apartment/room/pad whatever would include a storage bin for their stuff only accessible by the owner only. The apartment would include two doors, or one with two options inside one back to the base and one to some fixable location in the game. I get there are probably more players that doors in the game. However, the code for each door to do something is there i.e. Halloween. So each door could give a choice of x number of player apartments. You could also have specific doors at the base of each apartment type buildings but give the player the choice of which zone and which building.
Player B: Where do you live?
Player A: Marshal.
Player B: Nice place?
Player A: Yeah, the Family watches out for it. Wanna see?
Player B: Sure
Player A: how about you?
Player B: Sharkhead, looking to move. Freaks are taking over the neighborhood, and shipyarders keeping knocking on the door asking for union donations.
In the game Player A wants to show Player B his place. Player A clicks door goes in, Player B clicks within x seconds to follow player B inside. Once inside they can have their adult beverages [60 min stackable debuff each ] admire all the Hero salvage. Because that Back Ally Brawler mask does look nice on the wall next to the window overlooking Grandville. Player B can then go back to the game. Player A has a choice to either go back to the game or go to the Base. This way if a player gets kicked their stuff remains just the option to go to the base from their apartment is gone until they join a new SG.
A side effect might be creating some sort of real world commerce. Just how much is penthouse in Cap worth? Solution: make apartments be earned like capes, but the mission has to be solo, tough and specific to the zone that they want to reside in. Once chosen the are permanent like the patron selection. Make it available at L40? (Cape at 20, Aura at 30, Apartment at 40). You got to prove you are able to move out and live on your own.
Another question: should location be based on account to limit record keeping overhead? If true, should a player be able have any alt access the apartment? Maybe that Grandville high rise is not so attractive. Should a player be able then to pass enhancements, inspirations, etc to his other alts this way or would this be a balance issue? Or would it be the same as a couple of 50's supporting the SG lowbies?
Poison Pill
Some changes I'd make to bases that would make them seem cooler to me; your mileage amy vary.
The Secret Entrance would lead to a mission door somewhere in the world, pickable once by someone with Base Editing privileges using a button on the Supergroup Window. You click the button, then click on any potential mission door near you (any ont that you could trick-or-treat at). This button can be unlocked again later, for a cost, by the Registrar.
The Secret Entrance could look like other things than a blue pillar. Doors, manholes, fairy rings, and even vehicles come to mind.
Any crafted (and powered and controlled) Telepad would work exactly the way the current Secret Entrance does, allowing full two-way access to a blue column in the city. If it has beacons attached, it would also be able to act as a Telepad currently does.
The Mission Computer would offer missions. That ability's kind of redundant because of newspapers and scanners. It seems 'lame' to have unlimited missions while hiding away in a base, but moreso to have a crafted item that doesn't do anything (current state) or runs out of missions. I'd make the MC offer unlimited missions, and have them conveniently accessible through the Raid Teleporter so there's a reason to use this and not just a newspaper. I'd have it work like the newspaper, periodically offering Mayhem or Safeguard missions. You'd have to go to your broker to claim those, so player characters are forced to go outdoors and get some sun from time to time and not just play with their computers all day.
New base functionality: Advancement Stations. Some people want to be able to craft uber gear for their characters. Others would reply that that would be just one example of things characters in a supers game already do whenever they level, and during creation.
Advancement Stations can be placed in any Workshop or the Oversight Room. Whenever a character gains a level or claims a respec, they get a 'coupon' usable at an Advancement Station or at a University. It could be every two to four levels instead, but fairly often. This coupon entitles the bearer to a free basic tailoring session, including any color changes plus changes to a single appearance element, e.g. gloves, belts, or even body scales. You can get new gear or even tone your body to represent your improved abilities. The coupons don't stack.
There would be Advancement Stations for every origin:
* Science: Rather like the current Tech Empowerment Stations
* Tech: Like the lab benches seen in the Universities
* Natural: Exercize equipment
* Magic: Like the Arcane Empowerment Stations
* Mutation: A chemistry lab, somewhat similar to the Tech station in appearance
These wouldn't be restricted by origin or by effect, the styles are for flavor. If a techie wants to use a nautilus machine to grow wings, I won't call the RP Police.
When the Invention System goes live, these items could be used for that, too.
The prices would be slashed for decorative rooms and items. More precisely, I'd slash the price of the second plot (maybe all plots), eliminate all rent on at least the first one, and add new, cheap decorative rooms. We have the Oversight Room, which is bulky, accepts no Anchors, and can support very little by way of a raidable base. It's only for starting up, and a bargain at 50,000. I'd introduce decorative rooms for 10,000 or 25,000 that are like the ones we have, but take no anchors. I might further restrict them in that, if you have raidable content, it must remain accessible if the decorative rooms were to be removed. These cheap rooms couldn't be used in competiton to hide Anchors, or as effective mazes since there must be a path that bypasses them. They're just a way to make a cheap, huge PVE base without being limited to 1x2 and 3x3 blocks. Additionally, all decorative items now costing over 1000 would be reduced to 1000 or less and all prices would be made more consistent.
Any functional item that duplicates functions of a free item that can be found in the wild - I'm looking at you, reclamators - will be at least as effective as the free version. In the case of reclamators, you'd get full health in PVE and 1/4 health in PVP from your base's reclamator.
Personal apartments would be created, and could be plugged into slots in SG bases for convenient access. They would be on a separate 'level,' accessible through an elevator or the Secret Entrance.
Souvenirs would be displayable in personal apartments.
See, I have a whole different perspective here...
I don't really care about what the base looks like, but how functional is it? If you wanted to make it more popular to me, and the thousands like me, you give it more functionality. Currently, all I use it for is a place to drop off my salvage, which I don't use, so it's meaningless to me anyway, and a quick way to hop a few zones. If the base was nothing more than a row of teleporters, it would be ok with me.
So I think that more functionality is needed before the bases become more popular...not design.
1) Make the base computers work the way they were originally supposed to. Or even expand on it: make the computers report villain activity in PVP zones. Make it so they notify you of a mission a villain is doing and shoot you there to fight said villain.
2) Fix the game so that the computer is a way to start a TF. Or expand on that and make that an optional way to start any TF.
Frankly, I'd rather see player housing separate from the SG base as an option. Maybe the hero doesn't want to be tied into a certain room in his SG's base, but would like to maintain his own apartment, for RP reasons. Maybe make the SG one less expensive or something, but give us the option.
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The solution is simple. Personal player housing through SG bases.
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Great minds think alike. Posi and I have been talking about this for awhile.
Here's the not so simple bit: the tech. But it's an interesting idea that we're wrangling at the moment.
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Well, if you go this way, please at least add functionality to houses. A lot of other games make player houses nothing more than glorified lockers. CoH has the potential to take things a lot further.
Further thoughts on personal bases, whether they be separate from SG bases or pluggable:
Any super with his own base (e.g. Batman) could use it for certain mundane functions right from level one: Improving himself or his base, storing stuff, displaying lewts, access through a hidden door somewhere in the city, and getting missions whether via police radio or whatever. I propose that besides the tailoring and Invention station (classed as a workbenche) I described above, the Oversight Room should be able to take a Mission Computer. Make it an allowable auxiliary to the Combo Unit. The missions it offers would be accessible on foot, not just through the Raid Teleporter.
Just making the newspaper work in a base would be the same difference, but without the immersion. I'd rather go the more elaborate route and have a computer. I agree with Val_Halla in that the only way I can think of to make bases useful to everyone, not just a few artists, is to make them stable, then add access to missions from them.
There are two things that would make bases the place to be for me. I'll list them now:
Thing one: Danger Room. Everyone requests it. You get "modules" for different villain groups and AV/Heroes by defeating them, similar to gladiators. You can then "train" fight them in the Danger Room. It'd give me a way to show off the game to friends, and also a place to try out an archvillain that I personally haven't fought yet.
Thing two: Functional vehicles. Yeah, this won't happen, because they added a sucky plane as the three year vet reward. But imagine, your SG has a team of about 4 fighting a Giant Monster. Because the devs have done everything they can to make Giant Monsters as not fun as possible, no one is helping and they're stalemated. You jump into the base and get into the plane. Your graphic is now replaced by that of a flier, and you can't use your normal powers, but you get the plane's powers to control (they'd function like temp powers). They'd be heavy on -regen and do a fair amount of damage, but the downside is that you can't get any xp while using the plane. The plane would also be a good way to clear hunt "x" missions that require you to kill things that only spawn at +3 to you. If the plane is damaged, you repair it with salvage (thus giving all those groups that have 400 useless components laying around something to do with them).
- J
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Well, In my opinion. a personal customised space/apartment/mini-base seems to be a great idea to me.
Costumes are popular because you are able to make whatever you want to your own tastes (or lack therof ) and personal "base" would be a extension of that. a additional tool to identify with your character. Also a place to store that odd enhancement you can't use yet, a place to stuff salvage to save for gadgetry or other purposes.
But Frankly, its the character personalization thats the point here. For RP or simply for imagination. a framework to work your concepts/ideas around. Function and gameplay is one aspect of this MMO, another is imagination and aesthetic creativity even if its only for your own amusement or interest.
and this is why I keep coming back to COH/V year after year, It allows this to greater extent than any other I've played. Any effort to improve this aspect especially is to be encouraged.
But that is, of course, My own opinion.... but I doubt I'm a minority of one here.
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i still say its [censored] retarded
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i still say its [censored] retarded
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Ah, the stuff of legend. Thanks for weighing in with such an obviously well-considered, informed, and constructive opinion.
Attache @ deviantART
Attache's Anti-401k Art Collection
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I think most people would just like either
a: a personal storage locker in base
b: a personal storage locker in base
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Actually my sg/vg has this. We are small, so each person has their own enhancement holder. Works out well.
Thanks, NC Soft, for closing my favorite game ever without warning and with plenty of life still left in it, and thus relieving me of the burden of EVER wanting to buy, try or even hear about another game from your company. Will my decision make a dent, or persuade them in anyway, shape or form? Nope, obviously not. Don't care. NC Soft is dead to me. ~ PsyFox
I love to customize my characters. I got the extra slot for most of my alts during the halloween event. Same for my base. I love the newer options from I7 like SG banners and holograms.
That being said, I would put my vote in for cheaper items, more usable functions (like accessing kiosk information from my holodisplay, computers you can do something with, etc.), fixing bugs like the unused mission computer, etc.
Personal space should be added, but should be sepparate from the SG base and dependant on personal resources (inf) not group resources (prstg). It should be localized to a specific zone, with more space available in higher lvl zones, but more cost, more like an apt idea. Maybe you could link from the apt to an SG base portal, but I don't think it should be part of the base.
Mind you, if the tech is easier to impliment from the existing SG base, I'd deal with it.
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I think most people would just like either
a: a personal storage locker in base
b: a personal storage locker in base
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No.
The point about a personal area is that it gives ME a place that I can decorate and design, because as things currently stand, much like an estimated 90% of the playerbase I can't alter the appearance of my SG base.
A personal room as proposed would give me this ability. That's why we need something more than just a personal storage bin.
@Statesman, you say that it's the tech that makes this a problem.
Talk to us. A problem shared is a problem halved. What's the technical problem that's causing so much trouble? Maybe if we know what it is we can help find a workaround.
Put that another way. What do you think we want that's causing the trouble? If we can negotiate on the requirements, maybe we can reduce the technical difficulty.
Scrappers are just like chainsaws. Somewhat hard to handle, EXTREMELY dangerous, and by far the most fun when wielded by the slightly insane.
@Alissara - an Angry Angel
The Angry Angels. When it absolutely positively has to be spanked today.
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My idea would be to give an SG leader or SG creator a special power when they sign up to create their base or something. They use this power to click on a door somewhere that afterwards serves as the doorway to their base.
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I like this idea a lot! (I haven't read the rest of the thread yet, so I don't know if the idea has been shot down, wreathed in flames, but it sounds reasonable to someone who has no idea what the codebase looks like.)
One forum name, two members: Molly Hackett & Heliphyneau.
AE arcs:
27327 - Enter the Homunculi
176837 - Homunculi 2: Tectonic Boogaloo -- UPDATED
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Thing two: Functional vehicles. Yeah, this won't happen, because they added a sucky plane as the three year vet reward.
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I also agree that it won't happen...but I was thinking, what if they made the plane a functional portal to any zone in CoX? Like if you are team leader, you click the plane and it brings up a zone menu...you select the zone and enter. Once the rest of the team clicks in, you get your loading screen to the appropriate zone and everyone shows up there. Heck, maybe they could even place your plane in the zone as a temp teleporter back to the base or to another zone? Could this be done?
I mean...okay, we're not going to get to fly the damn thing but could we make it be good for something besides prettying up the place?
Attache @ deviantART
Attache's Anti-401k Art Collection
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Thing two: Functional vehicles. Yeah, this won't happen, because they added a sucky plane as the three year vet reward.
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I also agree that it won't happen...but I was thinking, what if they made the plane a functional portal to any zone in CoX? Like if you are team leader, you click the plane and it brings up a zone menu...you select the zone and enter. Once the rest of the team clicks in, you get your loading screen to the appropriate zone and everyone shows up there. Heck, maybe they could even place your plane in the zone as a temp teleporter back to the base or to another zone? Could this be done?
I mean...okay, we're not going to get to fly the damn thing but could we make it be good for something besides prettying up the place?
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I think doing that would make teleporters redundant, which they're unlikely to do. If vehicles are going to do something, it has to go beyond simple zone teleportation. Not that it's a bad idea, I just don't see it happening. I don't see my idea happening either, though, so I suppose the point is moot.
- J
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There are huge multi-floor buildings all over the city, they could make one or two of those buildings sg base buildings per zone. Likewise they could also have subterranean bases in basements and the like. Or, they could devote nearly all the buildings in Atlas Park to bases.
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I completely agree it would be more interesting to be able to "see" someone's base from the perspective of an outsider. As it is, there's no "there" there...bases are simply shunted off to some extradimensional space that you can only show off to your SG mates or the rare visitor. Sure, I realize that you can always "pretend" your base is located in X. We'll just have to take your word for it.
One small fix for this would be to implement the windows suggestion that floats around occassionally...but instead of just a window with a generic view, maybe you get to pick a "window type" that displays a certain scene: Steel Canyon, Atlas Park, Talos Island. Hell, you could have windows that dispay underwater scenes, molton rock, the moon, space, etc. Even they kept bases exactly as they are, I might be jazzed to have the following conversation:
"The Liberty Patrol, huh? Nice base. Where are we?"
"Dude, we're on the freaking moon. Look out the window!!"
Attache @ deviantART
Attache's Anti-401k Art Collection