Gauntlet and Taunt Auras don't work on AVs anymore
By
Aett_Thorn,
Posted on: 2006-10-15 21:38 in Tankers
Gauntlet power effects (including taunt auras) have no effect on ArchVillains, Giant Monsters, Mitos, and Hamidon. This is by design.
This is a poor design, as it negates the point of giving tankers tools other than taunt to manage aggro.
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Holy crap! When and how did you find this out? You sound as if this has been common knowledge for a long time.
Edit:
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EDIT: Tankers and Brutes still have the highest base Threat Level of any AT (4), with Scrappers second (3), Kheldians, Stalkers, and Masterminds third (2), and everyone else fourth (1). This means that if a Tanker and a Blaster apply identical hostile effects to a target, the target will go after the Tanker first.
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Except AVs ignore threat rating as of I7, do they not?
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I've known about it for a month or so, and it's been around since at least this summer. Confirmed by an anonymous developer source.
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Except AVs ignore threat rating as of I7, do they not?
[/ QUOTE ]Yeah, forgot about that. Post re-edited now.
I think the Gauntlet change came in sometime after the CoV end-of-Beta event, as I remember the devs talking about how all the taunt effects basically shut down the AV/GM ability to attack.
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Except AVs ignore threat rating as of I7, do they not?
[/ QUOTE ]Yeah, forgot about that. Post re-edited now.
I think the Gauntlet change came in sometime after the CoV end-of-Beta event, as I remember the devs talking about how all the taunt effects basically shut down the AV/GM ability to attack.
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Yeah. Isn't that the Tanker's job? How can they "take damage" if they can't take aggro?
The other bit of insanity is that the Taunt power puts it right back in that situation. All this change has done is made all the people who said "You aren't a Tanker if you don't have Taunt" right.
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Gauntlet power effects (including taunt auras) have no effect on ArchVillains, Giant Monsters, Mitos, and Hamidon. This is by design.
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Can you still use Provoke? Or is it "real" Taunt or nothing?
34 heroes,
20 villains, Victory, Justice, Infinity, Virtue, Triumph, Exalted -- some more active than others
Basically, any power that has taunt added as a secondary effect will not taunt an AV/GM. Powers in which the only effect is a taunt still work as normal (although some AV/GMs also have resistance and/or protection to taunt).
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Confirmed by an anonymous developer source.
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Not to pry too much, but is this a "leak" kind of source?
Not doubting the validity, I'm just curious why Iakona gets all the good info 
I want to say that this seems really odd, but after other tanker changes over the past year or so, it's pretty much par for the course.
What do the devs want tankers to do? Not supposed to take aggro from a full spawn, not supposed to hold aggro on GMs and AVs. What is a tanker's purpose?
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Their purpose is to not have one apparently.
I guess the Devs feel that it's okay to require an AT to take a specific power in order to fulfill its core role as long as it's Tankers. 
Yet another reason to shelve my Tankers.
@Griffyn
"40 characters is my limit... okay, 50... 50 is my limit... okay, 60... 60 is my limit... okay, 70..."
Liquid,
I had confirmed my suspicions on the subject when I was playing a defender and we could not find a tanker that could hold the attention of an AV we were fighting in a L33+ team. I then made my own tanker and went and fought a few AVs Dr. V being the one I had my suspicions confirmed on. I found that nothing I did would give me the aggro of the AV other than Taunt. The taunt auras and everything are still exceptionally useful for managing spawns, but having taunt is 100% necessary to hold AV/GM aggro.
I know it's upsetting that taking a no damage/defense power is a requirement for a Tank to actually tank. I can't agree more with the Tanker community that, this is a borked way of doing things. I do enjoy playing my Tanker however, so I hope there are some changes some day that make tanking more than just mashing a single button.
If this is true (and I don't doubt it) you have to ask
WHAT IS THE POINT OF GAUNTLET?
It seems my tanker was better off before Gauntlet existed and my Taunt Auras still effected AVs.
Every time I think the Devs cannot do anymore to make the Tanker a complete waste of space the come along and prove me wrong.
Stupid. Stupid. Stupid.
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
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There's a reason I don't much play my main any longer, and why I won't seriously roll up another tanker.
This is why.
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There's a reason I don't much play my main any longer, and why I won't seriously roll up another tanker.
This is why.
[/ QUOTE ]
Same here. Got Aett to 50, then dipped on the AT for the most part. I only bring Aett back out when I need some influence.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
This is just wrong.
and needs fixing.
[color=gold][b][size=5]♪ Sometimes you feel like a Tank, Sometimes you don't! ♪[/size][/color][/b]
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Don't hold your breath, Ace.
These are the same devs that don't get that keeping Dominators neutered against AVs/GMs is wrong since they can't fall back on their secondary without putting themselves at ridiculous risk, while giving them a buff that only works when a Dom teams up. And on top of that, calling Dominators whiners and saying we want an 'I Win' button.
Agreed. It really is like the Devs want tanks to take the damage at all times except when it is really necessary. If taunt is our only useful tool against an AV, then that is more than a little absurd.
No AT should be defined by a single power in any fight.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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Agreed. It really is like the Devs want tanks to take the damage at all times except when it is really necessary. If taunt is our only useful tool against an AV, then that is more than a little absurd.
No AT should be defined by a single power in any fight.
[/ QUOTE ]
I wonder what powertool they will use to "fix' this one?
"I never said thank you." - Lt. Gordon
"And you'll never have to." - the Dark Knight
This has to be the most pathetic tanker development I have seen yet.
I mean wasn't there a long effort which Statesman supported to make tankers something other than taunt-bots? This completely obliterates this effort in one swipe. It also negates about the only real strong need for tankers unless of course they do have taunt. Well I don't see much of a future for my Ice/SS tanker since I wasn't going to bother with taunt on him, and this gives me even less drive to both taking him the rest of the way.
Just when you think the devs can't get any dumber...
Too many alts to list.
Don't be silly folks. Taunt isn't required it just "adds flexibility"... Isn't that what the man said?
Hmmm...
Im pretty upset by this.
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Don't be silly folks. Taunt isn't required it just "adds flexibility"... Isn't that what the man said?
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It certainly will add flexibility to your teammates. Once their bones are broken, I'm sure they'll be very flexible.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
People have been reporting lots of aggro problems since I7, and I think I've found one of them. They made (some? all?) AVs immune to Gauntlet. Invincibility doesn't seem to be working either. In fact, in my testing, the only reliable aggro holding tool for an Invuln Tanker vs. AVs is Taunt (I haven't tried Provoke). I've not been able to observe or play any Fire, Stone, or Ice Tankers for any reasonable length of time since this issue presented itself.
I've zipped up 4 demo files for your viewing displeasure. Before you watch them, remember that Tankers have been able to cause any mob to immediately turn and face them just by hitting them since release, the only exception being if another Tanker had the aggro. We've always had built in taunts in our attacks, the AoE aspect (now called Gauntlet), wasn't added until Issue 3.
Zipped demo files, names have been changed to protect the innocent
In these files, you will find the following fights:
Burkholder
The file labeled "aggro-Burkholder.cohdemo" was originally the entire mission, but I cut it down to just the AV fight. My doing that is probably why it doesn't seem to end after we exit.
In this demo, you will see the most blatant example of the problem. You will see my Tanker completely unable to get Burkholder's attention off of the Blasters without the use of the Taunt power. I use Taunt once at the beginning on a reflex when I see him, but don't use it again until it's been made pretty obvious that neither Gauntlet nor Invincibility are affecting him at all. Nobody else on the team has any taunt powers.
He never turns to face me once he decides to fight the blasters until I decide to start using Taunt.
Neuron and Anti-Matter
In the files labeled "aggro-neuron.cohdemo", "aggro-antimatter.cohdemo", and "aggro-anti2.cohdemo", you will see the same Inv/SS Tanker who doesn't have Taunt. Now, he was really lagged the whole time, so he does have long periods of inactivity. However, when he does hit the AVs, they do not turn like they used to to face him.
In "aggro-neuron.cohdemo", I see the line "2 2 MOV MA_TAUNT" 3 times, so it looks like the Katana Scrapper taunted him 3 times over the course of the fight. That wouldn't be enough to keep him off the Tank for the whole time.
In "aggro-antimatter.cohdemo" the demo starts just after the Katana Scrapper accidentally taunted him, so the first 20 seconds or so aren't accurate for testing purposes. She doesn't do it again.
Out of all of these three files, The AV is attacking the tank maybe 10% of the time. All he is contributing is damage.
So, is it all AVs, just these three, or some larger number? Are the other Taunt auras worthless for aggro like Invincibility seems to be? Is it just Super Strength that has been affected? What about Brutes?
I have no idea. To find more out, we need more testing, and I'm done testing for now. I'll post any more information that I find in this thread, but if anyone else wants to try to see if they can find AVs with or without these issues, or how other Tanker sets or Brutes fare, that would be appreciated.
The big test to make is: if the AV is aggroed on someone else because they've done lots of damage to it, does hitting it once, or stepping in range with your taunt aura make it face you immediately like they used to? This is especially important if you are testing with Brutes, because they can hold aggro simply through outdamaging their teammates.
I'd really appreciate dev confirmation on this if I could get some. This is a stealth nerf, and I feel comfortable using the word "nerf" here despite my feeling that it is overused, because it looks like Tankers without the Taunt power are now unable to tank in (some? all?) AV fights, and nobody said a thing about it.
Edit: changed the title in light of iakona's information.
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