Official Thread for Recluses Victory: PvP Zone
By
Adam7,
Posted on: 2006-05-01 24:15 in Developers' Corner
Hi,
I played with several builds last night and it was a lot of fun.
But the most fun was being able to auto-level to 40 and try out new builds that I would never have taken the time to play to a high level before. Please consider making this kind of testing capability a permanent option on the test server!
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BS. I can still get inside the bases (I've done it in Siren's, should still work in BB, maybe War or RV). It just takes a TP foe from a friendly villain.
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That matches a redname's definition of an exploit and can get both parties banned. I had seen a post from Cuppa on that specific topic.
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Eventhough I got PWNED a lot with my Dom, I am having a blast.
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Heh - I was actually doing some PWNING of my own with the Dom I rolled (sorry Cuppa, among others - I was just Arson Around 
) - I'm definitely rolling a Fire/Psi on Live now.
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One suggestion ...
DO THIS ONE WEEKEND EVERY OTHER MONTH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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While I would like to see them do something similar again in the future, I think making it that regular could be problematic. It would be great if they could do it each time a new Issue comes to test though - would be a great way to give people a teaser of any new powersets or power changes (it's certainly helped me with 3 new alts I'll be rolling).
I had great fun testing the zone and different builds. I think that the ability to roll high level PVP characters should be added as a permanent part of the game. It's a lot of fun.
In CoV I've played mostly Brutes and Corruptors, and very little CoH at all. (I have one low lvl troller, which I hate)
So here's what I tested:
Plant/Thorns Dominator: I love this AT A LOT. When I wasn't dead or coming back from the dead, it was tons of fun. (which amounts to around 5 minutes of actual game time I guess)
Spines/Nin Stalker: So this is what it's like eh? Awesome. Stalking is much harder than people think. However, I killed more heroes with this build in 2 nights than I have killed in my entire 6 month PVP CoV career. Revenge was very sweet indeed.
Thugs MM: The thugs seem great. I didn't really get a chance to use them because I died too fast. Even in Bodyguard mode.
Ice/Ice Corr: Oh yeah baby. Here comes the pain. Sooo nice.... sooo cold 
And just for kicks, I rolled a BS/Regen scrapper. Hahahahaha.. COME ON MAN are you KIDDING ME? Don't people get bored playing like this? Nothing but dead villains in my wake, it mattered not who or what they were. It was like when someone first showed me the cheat codes for DOOM. I was like WOW, you can be invincible?? SWEET! Then 5 minutes later it was like... oh... gee... uh.. kinda boring now 
I wanted to see the signature villains, but they were usually killed before I could get to them. However, I did see the signature heroes often and was killed by them many, many times.
RV is a fun zone. I sincerely hope that something happens to buff up the villains a bit, because that's still woefully unbalanced.
I actually had the most fun in RV with my squishy characters, I guess because I went in without expectations. (I know zip about PvP and still don't like it a whole heck of a lot, but hey, when in Rome, do as the Romans do!)
My fire/thermal character was an absolute blast. I have a lowbie one on the live server and decided to see what the level 40 version would be like, and wow! I'll be playing her some more. The blasts, the debuffs.. not to mention the self heal, which I needed. A LOT. :P I think I actually killed one or two people, and had a couple tanks running away from me at one point.
I also tried an elec/elec blaster. I play my level 18 one on live like a stalker (blapping isn't for me >:P) and did the same in RV. Worked out rather well, stayed stealthed, aim, build up, snipe. Not sure I killed anyone but I made it easier for other people to get the kill. I died a hella lot though.
I also tried my ninja/ninja stalker, which sucked, utterly. I couldn't seem to hit anyone at all (ie miss, miss, miss, even with two accuracies in everything) and I kept having my auto power 'un' auto for some reason. The mez protection one. :/
I also tried an elec/elec brute. Didn't do any fighting as I just wanted to see the powers basically. I can forgive the.. red.. because looking like a mini deathsurge makes up for that. (Speaking of - how about changing voltaic sentinal to look like a purply hero version of a Cap gremlin?)
Anyway, I had fun with this event, it might even be my new favorite event. Its incredibly helpful to be able to look into the futures of your characters.
I have tried RV about ... four or five times, now. I had fun ... once. I had a frustrating, unpleasant experience ... every other time.
...
I think I can lay the "problem" I am encountering at the feet of one single factor: UNBALANCED POPULATIONS. When it was "un-fun", either it was too easy (because I was on the side with the far larger strength of numbers), or it was pointlessly frustrating (because I was on the side outnumbered as much as 10:1).
...
I don't think dialling down the population limit for each side is REALLY the solution (although it would help). I think what needs to be done, however, is this: SPAWN MORE AND TOUGHER NPCS FOR THE OUTNUMBERED SIDE!
Maybe even to the point of changing when (and which) Signature Characters are spawned. Pop out some of those hovercraft-gunships Arachnos has, if the heroes outnumber the villains by that much. Throw some big Longbow fliers in if the situation reverses itself.
There's GOING to be a population imbalance in favor ofthe Heroes when I7 goes live - there're level 50 Hero characters with nothing else to do, really. Not so for the highest currently-existing Villains ... they'll have PLENTY to do ... like levelling up to 50, themselves.
A mechanic that addresses that, by giving NPC reinforcements to the "underdog" side ... and I mean AGGRESSIVE reinforcements, that (much like in SC) actually try and storm enemy locations.
...
I think I can honestly say, every time I've "failed to have fun" in a PvP zone, it's because one side or the other has been grossly out-numbered. Every time I've spent an hour or so in such a zone and thought "holy mother of GOD, that was a BLAST!!" ... the sides have been about even, one way or another.
Thus, IMO, CoX DESPERATELY NEEDS some mechanic to move zones towards that "sides are even" state. ISTM that spawning more (and more-aggressive) NPC reonfircements would be a good way to do so, at least in RV (if not elsewhere).
As a side-benefit, the added enemy spawns would give more to DO, in the event there's mostly or only ONE side present at any given hour of the day or evening. And they'd be a "more to do" that gave XP/Prestige, too ...!
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*/Regen Stalkers and */Thermal Corrupters.
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/Regen Stalkers don't get QR, and /Thermal Corrupters aren't exactly Empaths...
I'll beg here too. Make this a permanent part of the game! I thought I was enjoying the game before .. but I had more fun in the last 24 hours than in the previous 6 months. My suggestion is to make a special server for this that players would earn permission to access after leveling a character to 50 the traditional way.
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I have tried RV about ... four or five times, now. I had fun ... once. I had a frustrating, unpleasant experience ... every other time.
...
I think I can lay the "problem" I am encountering at the feet of one single factor: UNBALANCED POPULATIONS. When it was "un-fun", either it was too easy (because I was on the side with the far larger strength of numbers), or it was pointlessly frustrating (because I was on the side outnumbered as much as 10:1).
...
I don't think dialling down the population limit for each side is REALLY the solution (although it would help). I think what needs to be done, however, is this: SPAWN MORE AND TOUGHER NPCS FOR THE OUTNUMBERED SIDE!
Maybe even to the point of changing when (and which) Signature Characters are spawned. Pop out some of those hovercraft-gunships Arachnos has, if the heroes outnumber the villains by that much. Throw some big Longbow fliers in if the situation reverses itself.
There's GOING to be a population imbalance in favor ofthe Heroes when I7 goes live - there're level 50 Hero characters with nothing else to do, really. Not so for the highest currently-existing Villains ... they'll have PLENTY to do ... like levelling up to 50, themselves.
A mechanic that addresses that, by giving NPC reinforcements to the "underdog" side ... and I mean AGGRESSIVE reinforcements, that (much like in SC) actually try and storm enemy locations.
...
I think I can honestly say, every time I've "failed to have fun" in a PvP zone, it's because one side or the other has been grossly out-numbered. Every time I've spent an hour or so in such a zone and thought "holy mother of GOD, that was a BLAST!!" ... the sides have been about even, one way or another.
Thus, IMO, CoX DESPERATELY NEEDS some mechanic to move zones towards that "sides are even" state. ISTM that spawning more (and more-aggressive) NPC reonfircements would be a good way to do so, at least in RV (if not elsewhere).
As a side-benefit, the added enemy spawns would give more to DO, in the event there's mostly or only ONE side present at any given hour of the day or evening. And they'd be a "more to do" that gave XP/Prestige, too ...!
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QFE, this was EXACTLY my experience, either dying 2 seconds after I joined the fight, or never dying for an hour straight (and taking many, many, many heads)
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How about teleporting the turrets of a captured pillbox inside your own base, making it impossible for the opposing side to "defeat all defenders" and recapture the pillbox? That's a rather bad exploit, I think. And if those turrets I saw inside the base weren't teleported there then the bug where the turrets follow a defeated hero to the hospital is still around.
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Something along these lines still happens, yes. Last night on two occassions my villain team dropped a bunker occupant and the turrets disappeared, rendering the bunker untakable. I /bugged it and it really needs looking into.
My RV impressions from about 4 hours of villain team play:
I prefer to play squishy ATs in PvE, so I concentrated entirely on them in PvP, trying a mind/nrg dom (Disciple of Xenu) and an ice/kin corr (Icy Curves Ahead). The only real times they seemed to perform well was if I stuck to hit-and-run or hid in massed friendly forces. Otherwise pretty much anything that looked funny at me dropped me.
I've learned to run like hell from elude scrappers. Can't hit 'em with squat.
Signature heroes are silly. Best tactic is to try and win the zone fast and don't worry about defeating them, because the force required to do that would be far more efficiently applied taking bunkers and dropping opposing players. I never saw a signature hero drop below 90% health.
I may have had more fun with a more durable AT, or if I'd tuned my builds to be more stealthy. The looming threat of debt is likely the biggest thing to turn me off from going to RV on launch, unless I use a 50.
My most entertaining moment was watching my /stone brute buddy (Guardian of Xenu) annoy the crap out of dozens of heroes (whilst I was faceplanted, of course). He'd heavily slotted self heals and defenses and could simply stand in the middle of hordes of heroes. Endurance was his only limitation, so he reserved attacks for random squishies that came too close.
To "captain short round" on RV 18 -- gotta love the force bubble herding, that was awesome. Terribly annoying to try and find a flying force bubbler that's shoving you around to divide and conquer for his hero buddies.
Observations about Recluse's Victory over the past 2 nights:
<ul type="square"> [*]I think people like playing heroes better. Every RV instance I entered was easily 70% hero / 30% villain. Villains got trounced every time, which got very frustrating after a while. Heck, in RV 17 there were enough heroes to camp in front of the villain hospital just out of drone range, and hold all the villains in place while the rest of the heroes captured all the pillboxes over and over. I thought I was in EverQuest for a minute.[*]With NPCs fighting side-by-side with PCs, debt is a forgone conclusion.[*]Named heroes/villains are ludicrously difficult. It got to a point where I just had to run every time I saw Positron or Manticore. I was hoping as a corrupter that I'd be able to contribute somewhat to debuffing/damaging them, but they seem 10X more resilient than an AV, and even if one-shotting is impossible these days, they can still defeat you pretty much by just looking at you. Never once while fighting a named character did I feel super. I felt like an ant getting beat down by a god.[*]PvP is a lot more fun with teams than trying to lone wolf. [*]Stealth (even slotted) is pretty much useless. Players seem to see right through it.[*]Any build without stamina (not including masterminds) seems pretty much gimped, even with one end reduction in every power.[/list]
I'm sorry the observations are all negative, but in two nights of gameplay, it's been nothing but punishment. I'm sure there's going to be a chorus of players ready to tell me what I'm doing wrong now. 
I had a lot of fun with the event. I really got a chance to vent my altitis a bit. Tried a couple Scrappers (versions of my live characters), a Blaster, an Electric Brute, a couple Stalkers..
Probably the most fun I had was a Fire/Fire Tanker though. I specifically chose it for Rise of the Phoenix, named him Relentless Fire. He was quite suicidal. Very effective at taking down a pillbox by himself, too. Just focused on one gun at a time, doing what he could to stay up, throwing in the PBAoEs. Then when he inevitably was taken down, instantly pop Rise of the Phoenix and continue on with the gun. He generally got a turret to a turret and a half like that, then hosptial (Healing Flames for quick recovery) and repeat.
well my first time i rolled a Thug/TA Set and by the time i actually pimped out my guys the server crashed every time, so i rolled a corrupter, man that was fun, ice/kin, then i realized ill be a hero, then made a nice MA/Regen Scrapper that owned everyone it faced except a few stone brutes that i could barely damage..
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If that gets changed in other zones, I'm not going to bother any more, since your choice will be "run with 1 HP and find a place to hide and heal" (having someone follow you,) "Find an empath" or "run out of base, get killed, then stand in the base while your natural regen rate slowly heals you."
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Lesson learned from my first RV toon the last few days.... Slot Rest with a couple slots of recharge reduction. ++ them when you buy your enh's. Rest was back up as often as I needed it.
I played a brute, Corruptor and a Dominator. All copies of characters I have on live now cause I wanted to see what they would be like late game... SUHWEEEET!! 
This event totally rocked! I have heroes that I will be able to play right away in there at release. But I'm on a mission now to get my Villains up there too...... Gotta stock up on HotPockets and Mountain Dew for the next week or so.. 
Cause I'm gonna be spending a lot of time at the 'puter.
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How about teleporting the turrets of a captured pillbox inside your own base, making it impossible for the opposing side to "defeat all defenders" and recapture the pillbox? That's a rather bad exploit, I think. And if those turrets I saw inside the base weren't teleported there then the bug where the turrets follow a defeated hero to the hospital is still around.
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Turrets still follow you into the hospital. Check http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5pSrm_MwWM which is video I took of the last minute of the event.
The author of this post is speaking in generalities from his personal experience.
Your experience may vary.
I've spent some time rolling around AP in my tricked out rides. Spines/EA, Ice/Kin, Ice/Dev. First all in all a fun time with the usual amount of ganking-griefing. Now about the zone itself.
-Pillboxes: Ouch! get to close and you are a swiss cheese sandwich! Pill boxes are no different then Stalkers, getting nearly killed in three seconds is not fun. Since quite a few battles were being waged around the pill boxes it was way to easy to use TP foe and let the pillbox do the heavy lifting.
-Low health: More of an irritant then an obstacle. Most of my builds had Hasten so when I got defeated I was back in play as soon as the rest animation was over. If you really want a time out, let people rez full and let them go through a umm "Temporal realignment syncronization" and after a countdown then let them into the zone.
Balanced zones: To many unbalanced fights one way or the other. Create a system of zone entery that promotes hero/villian balance.
While on my villian Manticores name popped up but having read the recent "So godly tough they are not fun" threads I didn't even bother.
I had a blast with everything I made.
Of most interest was how surprised I was at how easy it was for my MA/Nin stalker to take out a hero controlled pillbox solo, without death.
Of secondary interest were the dual storm/psi defenders my wife and I made. They were a lot of chaotic fun, and uterly devistated just about anything (what with the general lack of player-character psi def/res). Alas, a large number of villians ran off before I could put in the final blow, but that is to be expected.
Guess I'll chime in as well.
First off thanks Devs. This was a blast of an event.
I tried to test out some builds like an Elec/Elec Brute but got disappointed. Instead I remade my primary Energy/Energy Brute with some tweaks for more defense. Wow. Didn't have to pop Overload unless it was a really nasty fight.
Stone tankers *sigh* I just turn and walk away. Saw several in there that were very proud that they had to be taken down by no less that 10 people. Only thing was they didn't take down anyone. Sure they can take the damage but if they can't hurt you what's the point.
SR Scrappers. Now these little pests are just insane. I'd find one and take a swing at him. The second I saw "Eluded" pop up above their head I'd look for something else to smash.
Super speeders everywhere. Especially scrappers that would buzz by for a shot and run off. I finally went to stand next to my bub with TP Foe 6-slotted and wait for a hero to be served.
Pikie Zwei - DM/Regen Scrapper
B222-Fracture - Energy/Energy Brute
Widt - Katana/SR Scrapper
I just want to briefly say thanks to the Devs for this event. It was great fun and really felt like a good testing ground. I discovered a newfound interest in PvP. Although it will never supplant PvE in my heart, I finally get what all the fuss is about.
I'm only a casual PvP player, so take my feedback with a grain of salt.
1. Really like the style of RV. Open warfare with a point makes for good interesting PvP.
2. Things were a little too deadly. A group of 4-5 minions could wipe a team of heroes, esp. since they can arrive without attracting too much attention.
3. Named characters were far too hard to kill. I was in a protracted battle against Positron that went on for the better part of 15 minutes, involving no fewer than 20 heroes. Once, he dipped below 30% health. Once. For about 2 seconds. Silly. If it's not meant to be defeatable, don't let it be targettable.
4. Reinforcements. It seemed to me like the reinforcements went to the pillbox that was just taken. I would think they would run to an unclaimed pillbox (or one controlled by their side if possible).
5. Maybe it was the lag, but I felt that SS and SJ were making the drive-by tactic too effective. In PvE, the delays for drive-by attacks were balanced by the speed of the computer's response. In PvP, the delays imo need to be corresponding larger.
6. Stunning is a one-shot kill in PvP. Dropping toggles is fine, but I think Stuns in PvP should be virtually zero length. Even if multiple powers are used, Stun + Attack = Death is still a one-shot kill in my book.
-mf
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Eventhough I got PWNED a lot with my Dom, I am having a blast.
One suggestion ...
DO THIS ONE WEEKEND EVERY OTHER MONTH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Here's a better suggestion for you.... play it live on your own server.
Here's another one....ask the devs to set up a PvP only server that you can copy characters to.
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I do PvP on my own server, but I doubt any server puts up the numbers that this event does.
As for a PvP server, the limited time makes this so much more special. Everyone wants to jump in the action. A dedicated PvP server would dwindle down to just the "Hardcore PvP'ers" eventually. This server wipe and limited time allows everyone to have an equal footing.
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If all you want is some lame special event where everyone has "equal footing" then the develpers could easily set up a pvp only server that anyone can copy to and be insta leveled to whatever level x zone is. Unlimited free respecs basically. If it ends up being only hardcore pvp'ers then they have proven the point that it doesn't excite most of the PvE population. They could even wipe that server every other week, not that it would be needed.
There is nothing special about this event. Log in, build crappy/great character get owned/own people, get mapserverd or lagged out due to all the graphics and way too many people on a server not optimized for it. what fun!
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Hehe, I smell an extra serving of BITTER OLD FART!
Seems to me that you probably don't need to be logging in and wasting your time with an event that everyone else seems to be enjoying. Please go sit on your porch and yell at the neighborhood kids to stay off your grass and you will be a much happier person.
I think Czar's idea has merit if only for the fact that it would keep players interested in potential alts they would want to roll for PvE or even PvP purposes thereby keeping playerbase interest for a longer period of time. This event definitely opened my eyes to the potential of several very intruiging ATs/combos.
I can't express how much friggin fun it was to roll up on a group of Thug MMs and their bajillion combined pets and throw out a Mass Confuse - and THEN Confuse their accompanying Heavy. Oh the joy that caused. That one single incident more than made up for the fact that I was stalker bait for the rest of the day. Mass Confuse ftw!!!!!!
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If that gets changed in other zones, I'm not going to bother any more, since your choice will be "run with 1 HP and find a place to hide and heal" (having someone follow you,) "Find an empath" or "run out of base, get killed, then stand in the base while your natural regen rate slowly heals you."
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Lesson learned from my first RV toon the last few days.... Slot Rest with a couple slots of recharge reduction. ++ them when you buy your enh's. Rest was back up as often as I needed it.
I played a brute, Corruptor and a Dominator. All copies of characters I have on live now cause I wanted to see what they would be like late game... SUHWEEEET!!
This event totally rocked! I have heroes that I will be able to play right away in there at release. But I'm on a mission now to get my Villains up there too...... Gotta stock up on HotPockets and Mountain Dew for the next week or so.. Cause I'm gonna be spending a lot of time at the 'puter.
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Ha! My goal while playing a "Fragile" Mind/Rad was to last long enough in the zone while dodging Stalkers left and right to have Rest recharged by the time I finally made it back to the Hospital. Usually accomplished that goal - but not always.
And Rest was the ONLY power that I actually slotted up to 40++ level. Did anyone actually take the time to slot up all their powers with ++?
1. the rez to 1hp/1 end sucks. Most noticed with a MM. it took me rest to get to where I could summon my minions then I had to stand there for a little over a minute to finish buffing them. With a regen scrapper it didn't even matter. Those are 2 extremes but if this is a penalty to get people out of the fight then give them a lock down timer so everyone is penalized equally.
2. the NPCs are a little to hard. Villain side I'd be looking for a hero (spent lots of team LFT) to land near a warden or have one follow me to a PvP fight only to have them hold me and kill me in short order while the hero jumped away (usually on squishies). Hero side I got killed in 3 shots as a blaster without landing near a boss (they attacked me from nearly 80 ft away). I was held and shot 3 times getting debt. Someone else said bring out the NPCs...I think that they are to powerful and plentiful as it is. To balance sides players should get something along the lines of longbow/arachnos pets to balance the sides so no debt is accrude because NPCs flood the zone, but the balance can be shifted.
3. The signature Heroes are insane. Manticore killed the whole team (Granite brutes x 2, thermal corruptor,, stalker, and dominator) with a rain of arrows, and a follow up shot. It's one thing they are tough (we weren't the only team there were 12 villains) but even with the cold corrupter buff and my thermal buffs the 12 of us couldn't budge his health and then Statesman flew in and killed us too.
I realize that some people say debt doesn't matter, but for me I want to test my shiny new powers. Debt makes it take that much longer especially outside missions. I like to jump into a PvP zone every now and then for 30 minutes and have fun, but if NPCs can keep killing me easier than players and more are introduced it will keep me out of RV outside of lvl 50 toons.
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A group of Jerks and I made our Lovebot team and completely dominated BAB, Manticore, and Statesman. So don't whine too hard--they're beatable.
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OK, those are the heroes. Take your team against the signature villains. And tell me if it's the same. And I'm kinda torn by the 4 posts below mine. On one hand I'm glad that other people are really enjoying RV. On the other hand I cant see how anyone could have fun experiencing what I experienced. After I posted I went and made a new toon. A EM/inv tanker and went in again. Same experience. Getting plastered in no time straight when a signature villain showed up. Now I dont play Tankers in CoH normally. But I've read up on the slotting, and talked to other tanks. And from the information that's been widespread. I gotta say it was a big dissapointment.
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TRADE SECRET: Use debuffs. As many of the same one as possible. Get an entire team of rad/* defenders, drop every single debuff on an HAV/VAV. Let everyone else kill them. You'll get the badges.
As of right now, all the Lovebots have the Oppressor badge (defeating Statesman), Uppercut (defeating BAB), and Dead-Eye (defeating Manticore). I hope we'll get around to killing off Captain Mako, Ghost Widow, and co.
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I'm sorry but if the lowsey heals in the hospital is the way it's supposted to be in Recluse's Victory, I have to say I'm dissapointed. Any where else we get full heals. Except of course in bases where they only have the basic medical teleporter untill Sg earns the prestige & badge to build the improvements. I feel very strongly that Recluse's Victory should be the same as any other Standard hospital Teleport. If the developers are planning to make all hospitals like the ones in R.V. I'll be more then dissapointed. Debt is the most penalty we should get from death & having to go to hospital.
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Actually I kind of like it for the pvp zones. So if you defeat someone they're actually out of the fight for 20s while they use Rest instead of hitting the hospital and being right back in the fight almost instantly.
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... which also makes the timer, um... pointless.
If that gets changed in other zones, I'm not going to bother any more, since your choice will be "run with 1 HP and find a place to hide and heal" (having someone follow you,) "Find an empath" or "run out of base, get killed, then stand in the base while your natural regen rate slowly heals you."
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It *is* that way in the other zones.
However, with 1 SO recharge in rest, you will be out in the field long enough for it to recharge back. Plus, all of the zones have a door to the hospital portion of the base, so you will be unmangled during the time you rest.
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BS. I can still get inside the bases (I've done it in Siren's, should still work in BB, maybe War or RV). It just takes a TP foe from a friendly villain.