Official Thread for Brutes: Electric Shields
By
13th_Stranger,
Posted on: 2006-05-01 24:02 in Developers' Corner
Power Sink - + end (self), - end (Foe AoE)
Energy Aborbtion - + end & +def (self), - end (Foe AoE)
It stands to reason that they don't drain the same amount of end since an EA gives an Ice tank a defence bonus.
Also permafrost is the power that resists slow not EA - unlike what birdbird said
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And don't get me wrong - I really like Electric Armor and am considering playing one up. I'm just seeing this as a power that the Devs will undoubtedly zero in on. And if they don't you can bet the bank that once good (read: know what they are doing and are very effective at sapping) /Elecs make it up to the PvP zones the whining on the boards will be pretty big.
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Perhaps I misunderstand how Transferrance works. My understanding is that it steals endurance no matter what. No one has to be in range for that to work, it's just that, if no one is in range no one gets endurance. It has a 60' base range. Of course, it is also single target, but has 1/2 the recharge of Power Sink. (Ranged AoE drain is truly a disgusting concept.)
As has been pointed out, Electric Armor/Power Sink and Energy Aura/Energy Drain seem to be identical powers.
How do you quantify the difference in performance in Ice Armor/Energy Absorbtion? Does EA just drain less end? I am honestly curious, because my SG-mate was commenting on how disgusting he felt the end drain of EA was. While EA does not transfer the endurance to the user, it seems strainge to me that the powers would be so vastly different.
I certainly expect Electric/PS and Energy/ED to be the same power. I'll be somewhat surprised if Ice/EA isn't comparable in end drain.
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I have yet to play an EA Brute past level 10 so I am no expert, but I was under the impression their energy drain had a to hit check. Also in my battles with them in past PvP they didn't seem to be able to pull the blue that PowerSink does. This is strictly "feel" values mind you - but it seems like a noticeable difference to me. I'm sure some proper testing will be done soon by the curious number crunchers.
As for Transference it is a ranged target - yes, but it also has a To Hit check. This requires most Kins to put at least two slots of acc into it, and probably take Tactics as well. You have to be within a 10' (approx) to receive the boost. I was zapping about half a blue bar of an even level boss with PowerSink - which is about the same as my Kin defender. Pretty strong stuff.
EA is nowhere close to this level of power - but as previously stated it has side benefits to go along with it including added defense.
I'm not stating that 'Sink is disgustingly powerful or "broken" by any means. Especially compared to some of the powers that have made it into PvP in the past. But to me it feels too strong. Especially in conjunction with Aid Self to cover up the sets flaws (which most everyone will more than likely take).
As for the Emp fallout - hehe I wouldn't know since I was running for my life everytime it crashed. That crash has to be adjusted some - it is way to harsh. 
Repost from Brute forum, but hadn't seen anyone mention this specifically, a problem I noticed with grounded....
Anyone else notice this problem with Grounded?
You need to be on FLAT ground for it to work, not just not in the air. It seems any little slope or bump makes the protections worthless. I accidently tested this by running around in The Gutter in grandville. A web grenades hit me when I was on a slope and I started to slide, when I hit bottom it instantly went away, I took one step up the slope and it came back, not from another throw, but from the same one. This happened for about 20 seconds straight, as soon as I stepped on the slope I was immob'd, as soon as I slide to flat ground, gone.
Bumpy areas are a nightmare. Running around the gutter its a mess, I was getting pummeled with web gernades and they'd hold for half a second, i'd hit "flat" ground instead of a small hill and gone, step onto the next bump, back. Magnitude seems high, I was shrugging off 4-5 greandes in a row if I was on flat ground, but one on uneven ground was enough to shut me down.
Seems Grounded really needs an increase to what is considered "near the ground". Perhapes a jump height above ground. At least enough so uneven ground doesnt count as "air" =/
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Oh, look at my sig, guess what I plan on doing with my Blaster. Bring your Blues.
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Guess what I have been doing with my Blaster 
It works pretty well... assuming you can survive long enought o get the combo off. Due to the animation times of both SC and PS, it's hard to get both off and not get creamed in the process. Not many people fall for this once they catch on. At least not from a Blaster.
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Also permafrost is the power that resists slow not EA - unlike what birdbird said
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negative. Energy Absorption does provide Slow Resistance. So does Wet Ice and Permafrost. The slow protection given by Permafrost alone is barely noticeable.
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I would like to point out to all the people comparing power sink to energy absorption that energy absorption also adds resistance to slow as well as defense to everything but psionic. So saying that power sink is superior in everyway is so not true.
Also did anyone else actually notice the EMP pulse when power surge drops?
[/ QUOTE ]Providing the /elec Brute player picks up lightning reflexes, they will also have resist to slows. Powersink seems far stronger than most other end drain powers in game aside drain psyche from Dom's /psi which seems to be more of a micro-debuff than an actual click type attack, I had BS/regens come up to me and bash me with 3-4 attacks and be at around 50% end then I hit powersink and they'd be at around 10% end and one more attack from him if I am not dead by then and he becomes helpless against me. THAT is how strong powersink seems to be right now.
Energy Absorption drains about 35% End in PvP with three +3 End Mods.
Blaster Power Sink does about the same. Even more with Power Boost.
The Defender APP version does about 35-40% IIRC.
Brute Power Sink does about 40-45% from what I've seen. It's not 50%. It might be a tad too much, but this 'is' what Electric Armor's secondary damage mitigation is: Endurance Modification. If it does get changed, it shouldn't be by very much.
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I would like to point out to all the people comparing power sink to energy absorption that energy absorption also adds resistance to slow as well as defense to everything but psionic. So saying that power sink is superior in everyway is so not true.
Also did anyone else actually notice the EMP pulse when power surge drops?
[/ QUOTE ]Providing the /elec Brute player picks up lightning reflexes, they will also have resist to slows. Powersink seems far stronger than most other end drain powers in game aside drain psyche from Dom's /psi which seems to be more of a micro-debuff than an actual click type attack, I had BS/regens come up to me and bash me with 3-4 attacks and be at around 50% end then I hit powersink and they'd be at around 10% end and one more attack from him if I am not dead by then and he becomes helpless against me. THAT is how strong powersink seems to be right now.
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The POINT is that Power Sink serves as drain and recovery and that is all. Energy Absorption does both of those plus adds defense and resistance to slow IN A SINGLE POWER. People are trying to say that Power Sink is far superior but it only does not do all the things Energy Absorption does so the drain and recovery is not as high because of this.
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Energy Absorption drains about 35% End in PvP with three +3 End Mods.
Blaster Power Sink does about the same. Even more with Power Boost.
The Defender APP version does about 35-40% IIRC.
Brute Power Sink does about 40-45% from what I've seen. It's not 50%. It might be a tad too much, but this 'is' what Electric Armor's secondary damage mitigation is: Endurance Modification. If it does get changed, it shouldn't be by very much.
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I haven't seen the Defender APP version but the rest feels/looks right. I believe the Defender Transference hits in at about 42% 3 slotted as well. Power Sink seems to be doing as much drain to PvE opponents as to PvP. That seems odd to me as I thought there was a coded difference into the drain % for each.
Hopefully they don't gut Power Sink completely if(when) they decide to look into it.
Power Sink is the power that the Sapper's attack is based off of,Power Sink is the best End. Drain power in the game.EAs power does not drain as much end.After testing a 40 Elec brute i believe the advantage of End. conservation powers is offset by the lack of a healing power and the fact that at the end of Power Surge u lose 95% health and all end. that cannot be recovered.I did take Tough and Weave as well, and i thought that the set did very well.U do need to be aware of how quickly u are taking dmg. and Power Surge wearing off though.
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Power Sink seems to be doing as much drain to PvE opponents as to PvP. That seems odd to me as I thought there was a coded difference into the drain % for each.
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I actually asked Castle about this. They've had a habit of forgetting to change the PvP attribute of end drain powers. Since I have no basis of PvE comparison (I've never had an end drain power before) I couldn't say if PS was draining too much. But they forgot to make Heat Loss different in PvP, so I wouldn't be shocked if they forgot this one.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
The Elec/Elec Brutes was what I was looking forward to the most in I7. I was glad to hear that Electricity was *finally* getting into CoV. however, I do not think I have ever been more disappointed with this game ever, and I've been around since CoH launch.
First off, I love the concept of an Elec/Elec Brute. I made one for the special Test event to give it a go. I did some PvP with it, and was happy with the results. I then headed out to Grandville and did some PvE. Was VERY happy with the PvE results. The attacks do good damage, and the end drain is great. I especially love the inherant powers in the secondary set. BUT....
Who the HELL thought that RED electricity would be a good thing to do? It's hideous and it makes no sense! If you want to distinguish this as "evil" or "villainous" electrcity, make it black and purple like you did with Invuln, and like the Nictus are. Seriously. The more I played this toon, the more disappointed I became. I REALLY want to play one of these, but it's so horrid to look at that I just can't.
Now would be the best time possible for the Devs to implement custom looks for powers.
@Arwen Darkblade
Proud Member of Hammer of the Gods and Sanguine Syndicate
Arc ID #86194 "Cry Havoc"
Arc ID #103934 "Dr. Thomas' First Day"
[URL="http://tobyfife.blogspot.com/"]Hero Girl[/URL] - my geek culture blog
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Who the HELL thought that RED electricity would be a good thing to do?
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Mother nature. Red is a fairly common colour of lightning. Nowhere near as common as blue, but fairly common nonetheless.
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
i'd prefer yellow (or white, but that'd probably be too bright)
Was anyone ever able to verify if Power Surge has Repel protection? I couldn't get anyone to help me test it.
However, I made a Mind/FF Controller for kicks and put TK and Force Bubble oon a PSing Elec Brute and the dude kept coming... makes me think it does, but I can't be sure he wasn't buffed.
Power Surge definitely does have repel protection.
Since we're already on the subject of Power Surge, I noticed something while testing it out last night in the lvl 40 event.
Power Surge is basically a copy of Unstoppable with an EMP on the end. Psi damage is a weakness of the Invulerability set. But Electric Armor does have Psi protection in a power. Shouldn't it's final ultimate power have Psi protection as well?
You'll have more than enough endurance, just leave Static Shield on while Surge is up. As for stacking more on.... sounds good but until I fight 20 Lost/Rikti bosses at once and see I'm getting owned I'm not going to be begging for it to be added to the uber Unstoppable power.
Thank you, City of Heroes, for giving me a superhero social network combined with amazingly smooth game play. Petitions signed with realistic expectations.
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Repost from Brute forum, but hadn't seen anyone mention this specifically, a problem I noticed with grounded....
Anyone else notice this problem with Grounded?
You need to be on FLAT ground for it to work, not just not in the air. It seems any little slope or bump makes the protections worthless. I accidently tested this by running around in The Gutter in grandville. A web grenades hit me when I was on a slope and I started to slide, when I hit bottom it instantly went away, I took one step up the slope and it came back, not from another throw, but from the same one. This happened for about 20 seconds straight, as soon as I stepped on the slope I was immob'd, as soon as I slide to flat ground, gone.
Bumpy areas are a nightmare. Running around the gutter its a mess, I was getting pummeled with web gernades and they'd hold for half a second, i'd hit "flat" ground instead of a small hill and gone, step onto the next bump, back. Magnitude seems high, I was shrugging off 4-5 greandes in a row if I was on flat ground, but one on uneven ground was enough to shut me down.
Seems Grounded really needs an increase to what is considered "near the ground". Perhapes a jump height above ground. At least enough so uneven ground doesnt count as "air" =/
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The problem with Grounded is worse than that. I stood on top of a pill box and repeatedly got knocked off of it. Standing flat ontop of an object does not count either. Secondly, standing flat on the ground where it DOES work (most of the time), I got hit with MA/Dragon's Tail and was thrown back 15 feet.
I've also been juggled while running Grounded which leads me to believe it only works when standing flat and not laying down either.
Also, neither the short nor the long text for the power mention the knockback/immob res. yet.
I said this on the Elec. Melee thread but...kidna appropriate here too so bear with me:
Well I did another Elec/Elec Brute last night.
This brute didn't have Stamina (wanted to see if it was feasible or not) with all secondary powers and all primary powers except for Taunt and Lightning Clap. I had Hasten and Superspeed and also Aid Other and Aid Self.
Well I did some newspaper missions set on Vicious (what I have it set for my SuperStrength/Stone Armor brute on live) and no problems when fighting CoT (granted they weren't Earth Thorns in any CoT mission I did...all Air Thorns)....Council was more of a problem (boss wise) just because of the bad S/L resistances of Elec. Armor. I was really relying on Aid Self more than I thought I would.
I noticed that with Thunderstrike that let's say I do 80 and 100 damage to the target I had selected...I also do 80 damage to anyone around that target. I didn't notice that when I posted "take away the pbaoe damage from Thunderstrike" a day ago. I must have seen "10 damage" coming from my Lightning Field instead of the bigger damage number from TS.
I actually really like TS now. 
I also depended on Lightning Rod's and TS' knockdown to get Aid Self off. I am thinking about grabbing Lightning Clap when it goes live so that incase I'm surrounded I can use LC to disorient them and get off AS incase LR isn't up or TS isn't up. It works for an SG mate of mine (his is a SS/DA Brute).
PowerSurge did make me an 'ub3r' tank. I was able to tank a lvl 45 Crey Boss in Grandeville with almost no problem (I did have to knock him down to get off Aid Self a few times but...).
Is there a way we can get a graphic of an explosion for when PS drops? I can't tell what/how big the area of effect is. I know it can hold a minion...but didn't work for a boss (the lvl 45 Crey boss that I was tanking summarily kicked my butt once PS dropped ). 
So the only thing I'd say that I would like to see is more S/L resistance to the set.
Oh and I did get knocked back a few times during paper missions. I didn't get knocked back by Gale from Air Thorns but Longbow's grenades knocked me down (not sure if I was jumping or not...happened to fast).
And the text for Grounded still doesn't say "+Res to knockdown/up/back and immob." So is there a way that, that could be added and maybe more resistance to knockdown/up/back/immob.?
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I tested the Power Sink on a Scrapper last night in the arena. I only triple slotted it for recharge, it was only taking away about 10% endurance. This was on a Spines / Regen Scrapper. So unless they have a resistance to End Drain, I don't see where the 50% you guys are claiming is coming from.
Edit: Forgot to mention, the KB/Immoblize protection is very quirky. I tried several things last night and here is what I got:
-Flat ground, the protection was hit or miss but;
-Running down steps, I lost protection
-Obviously when you jump over obstacles, you get Immobilized/KB's
-If you are standing on a ledge, you aren't on the ground.
-When I did stuff like Tremor, I got knocked down. Was testing it as Stone Melee/Electric Armor).
Couldn't come up with any other type of environment conditions to test it on. But I guess for me, it's the Leaping Pool.
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Repost from Brute forum, but hadn't seen anyone mention this specifically, a problem I noticed with grounded....
Anyone else notice this problem with Grounded?
You need to be on FLAT ground for it to work, not just not in the air. It seems any little slope or bump makes the protections worthless. I accidently tested this by running around in The Gutter in grandville. A web grenades hit me when I was on a slope and I started to slide, when I hit bottom it instantly went away, I took one step up the slope and it came back, not from another throw, but from the same one. This happened for about 20 seconds straight, as soon as I stepped on the slope I was immob'd, as soon as I slide to flat ground, gone.
Bumpy areas are a nightmare. Running around the gutter its a mess, I was getting pummeled with web gernades and they'd hold for half a second, i'd hit "flat" ground instead of a small hill and gone, step onto the next bump, back. Magnitude seems high, I was shrugging off 4-5 greandes in a row if I was on flat ground, but one on uneven ground was enough to shut me down.
Seems Grounded really needs an increase to what is considered "near the ground". Perhapes a jump height above ground. At least enough so uneven ground doesnt count as "air" =/
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The problem with Grounded is worse than that. I stood on top of a pill box and repeatedly got knocked off of it. Standing flat ontop of an object does not count either. Secondly, standing flat on the ground where it DOES work (most of the time), I got hit with MA/Dragon's Tail and was thrown back 15 feet.
I've also been juggled while running Grounded which leads me to believe it only works when standing flat and not laying down either.
Also, neither the short nor the long text for the power mention the knockback/immob res. yet.
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It seems to use the same code that Earth Controller single target Holds/Immobilizes use which means you have to physically be standing on the ground for the protection, and the game doesn't seem to consider many odd bits of geometry as 'ground'. This will be especially apparent in the old cave maps where all kinds of slopes and ledges won't count as 'ground'. Since this has been an issue since CoH Beta, I'm guessing there can't really be an increase in what's considered 'near the ground' due to game engine limitations unfortunately. Hopefully I'm wrong about that.
Gothika (Grav/Kin) Marionette (Ill/Rad) Terra Firma (Earth/Storm) Alana Dale (Arch/Nrg)
Iceblink (Ice/Dark) Fantasia (Mind/Fire) Shadow Minx (Claws/Nin)
--Virtue
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I only triple slotted it for recharge,
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Don't you think that might have made a difference.
Also - I tried to use Telekinesis with my Mind/Rad on several /Elecs running Surge last night and it didn't work. I'm still not sold that the crash leaves you with 10% hit points. I wish someone with a better memory than myself would verify this.
The crash pretty much leaves you with no life/endurance.
As I have not played with Power Sink or Energy Drain as much as I'd like, does slotting it with Endurance Modification drain more endurance?
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Also did anyone else actually notice the EMP pulse when power surge drops?
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I seen my guy burst when it drops but im normaly running like hell at that point.. Is it saposed to actualy do dmg cause that i aint seen. lol I've had it go off in a mob of scrapyarders (30 or so around me) fighting ghost but i didnt see any dmg just me hitting the floor. lol