Official Thread for Brutes: Electric Shields
By
13th_Stranger,
Posted on: 2006-05-01 24:02 in Developers' Corner
What are the resistances of Electric Shields? (has anyone checked already?)
I created a pve concept character and tried it in Victory. Its a Fire/Fire Tanker, Acrobatics and Stamina. Don't got tough. While fighting several diffrent brutes, I noticed that I was really hurting the ones running Electric Shields. (Couldn't touch them when they ran the final power)
Thinking that Fire Aura was "considered" weakest of the tanker sets (lots of holes) I had decent survival against most brutes. We hurt each other at about the same rate. Except for Electric Shields....
Well my Elec/Elec had no problems with knockback/immobilization....soo...take that for what it's worth.
My Elec/Elec wasn't properly slotted in the secondary (only had 1 shield with 3 resists...the others had maybe like 1 or 2 resists)...I was just going for primary and not really thinking I would play him that much.
I think the S/L resistances need to be brought up a little...I was getting creamed by Katana/SR scrappers. The only 'good' pvp fight I had was against a Stone tanker (not sure of his secondary...I think it was Stone) and a scrapper (I think). I was just trying to get the scrapper (or blaster) and the stone guy was trying to get me...I was losing but I hit PowerSurge and was able to hold my own. Then the team I was in came and helped out and got both of them (and a few other heroes that came to try to kill me).
I have died a few times to PS wearing off and me not paying attention to the blinking icon but...that's just me :P
Leader of The LEGION/Fallen LEGION on the Liberty server!
SSBB FC: 2062-8881-3944
MKW FC: 4167-4891-5991
I got Immobilized several times last night and knocked around quite a few times. I think it was knock up maybe since it was from a Katana Scrapper. I had Tough as well as all the toggle shields from /Electric. Went Haste and SuperSpeed so I was hardly ever off the ground (I triple slotted Hurdle to make going over fences and short walls easier).
I was doing pretty good against most scrappers except Broad Sword ones and the only tanker I ran into was Ice and wasn't a problem. I was held quite a few times from Controllers, but that's to be expected, they can still stack holds easy.
Electric Armor does good, but I didn't see any EM or Elec Blappers to test the resists on. Grounded seems pretty weak I am assume because it's a passive, so might have to skip it and go Leaping Pool.
I did notice some kb resistance but I had a iceblaster use blizzard to keep me well kb'd. I had ss as a travel so I never left the ground and still got some kb once in awhile but the blizzard kb'd me like i had no df at all. And even with lightning reflexes i was unable to see any df to the slows might have been so little i did not notice. And the final 2nd pool power was ok still no as good as unstoppable though. But I will take it over MOG hehe. All in all it was not to bad and was a good time. I am still happy to have some kb so as to avoid leaping pool I know I know I am wierd but i hate sj.
I posted in the main Test forum before it ocurred to me to post here. I was knocked back, up and down (Gale, Knockout Blow, and Headsplitter) quite extensively. I was definitely on the ground for most of them - if I hadn't been I would have considered it normal.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Something funny I noticed - power sink was draining MUCH more end than the /energy equivalent (energy drain?). So much so that one of them *must* be bugged, that or the lag was just causing all my energy drains to miss. Power sink would take off about half a hero's end, energy drain wouldn't even take a noticeable chunk.
Guides: Dark Armor and IOs | SS/DA | Crabbing | Fortunata
[ QUOTE ]
From the latest patch notes...
Electric Armor/Grounded now provides Immobilize and Knockback protection. This protection only applies when the character is near the ground, however.
Sweet deal you got there. Now continue with your rantage. 
[/ QUOTE ]
It appears to not stop Knock up as i was knocked up off my feet but a PVE SS Bosses KO Blow. From my little testing last night it does not appear to be as effective PVE as Unyielding.
Pinnacle
Arch light L50 INV/SS
Psiberia L50 Kin/Psi
Screaming Mentallica L50 Sonic/MM
Infinity
Arc Voltinator L50 SS/Elec
Mind Fire Kinesis L50 Fire/Kin
Flaming Screamer L50 Fire/Sonic
Power sink does not seem to miss at all. It cannot be slotted for accuracy.
In several hours of usage I did not see it miss.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
[ QUOTE ]
Power sink does not seem to miss at all. It cannot be slotted for accuracy.
In several hours of usage I did not see it miss.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's autohit, like Energy Absorbtion.
Gothika (Grav/Kin) Marionette (Ill/Rad) Terra Firma (Earth/Storm) Alana Dale (Arch/Nrg)
Iceblink (Ice/Dark) Fantasia (Mind/Fire) Shadow Minx (Claws/Nin)
--Virtue
This was my first high level test built an SS/Elec Brute and one thing was the quality of the protections animations.
Unless its just wierd test server settings the higher protection powers look poorly drawn. Surge looks just plain childishly drawn compared to the stuff we see on the MU. Going to need a L30 lightnign aura of a correctign color to make it look better.
Pinnacle
Arch light L50 INV/SS
Psiberia L50 Kin/Psi
Screaming Mentallica L50 Sonic/MM
Infinity
Arc Voltinator L50 SS/Elec
Mind Fire Kinesis L50 Fire/Kin
Flaming Screamer L50 Fire/Sonic
[ QUOTE ]
Power sink does not seem to miss at all. It cannot be slotted for accuracy.
In several hours of usage I did not see it miss.
[/ QUOTE ]
Played yesterday for several hours WITH PowerSink and loved it.
Played this morning for several hours AGAINST all the /Elecs and PoweSink and WHOA!
I'm gonna have to call it now and state this power is probably too good "as is". Especially as compared to its' peer powers. Fighting any good /Elec Brute today they would/could just wait until you were through an entire attack chain then hit Power Sink on you. Immediately afterwards you either have to A)flee B) cut back on attacks and look for a time stall to gain endurance or C) die.
Now the only caveat to this is when Insps are introduced back into the picture the blue chiclets are as common as /EM blappers. Everywhere. That might take a chunk out of the effectiveness, but as it stands this power is as good as Transference - and melees probably shouldn't be running around with that capability.
I did notice today while playing a Ice/SS Tank that I was routinely knocking /Elecs into the air with knockup. Something that should probably be addressed.
[ QUOTE ]
but as it stands this power is as good as Transference - and melees probably shouldn't be running around with that capability.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't understand this statement. Why can't a melee have this sort of capability when it requires them to, you know, be in melee? If a Kinetics character can do it at range, what's the issue?
Now if this has slipped under the covers as one of those "we forgot to reduce it to 25% of PvE" things, then sure.
Honestly, desptite 3-slotting it for end mod, I was mostly interested in the effect on my own endurance, not how much I was stealing. I actually didn't notice.
Is this particularly stronger than Ice/Energy Absorbtion? That also is auto-hit and shares the same recharge time.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Besides the fact that /EA brutes have had it for what 7 months or so now heh. /shrug to me it only drained about 15 to 20 percent (if that) of someones end bar. Used at a crucial time it is deadly thats for sure though heh. Personally I love the power and its one of the main reasons I am taking the set.
I never saw the power drain that much endurance from a hero. Granted maybe they were out of the power's range but...I still recovered endurance so either I drained like 10 endurance from them or I drained endurance from a mob that I didn't see 
This coming from someone who didn't put End. Modifications in the power...so...take it for what it's worth.
Leader of The LEGION/Fallen LEGION on the Liberty server!
SSBB FC: 2062-8881-3944
MKW FC: 4167-4891-5991
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
but as it stands this power is as good as Transference - and melees probably shouldn't be running around with that capability.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't understand this statement. Why can't a melee have this sort of capability when it requires them to, you know, be in melee? If a Kinetics character can do it at range, what's the issue?
Now if this has slipped under the covers as one of those "we forgot to reduce it to 25% of PvE" things, then sure.
Honestly, desptite 3-slotting it for end mod, I was mostly interested in the effect on my own endurance, not how much I was stealing. I actually didn't notice.
Is this particularly stronger than Ice/Energy Absorbtion? That also is auto-hit and shares the same recharge time.
[/ QUOTE ]
I ran it for several hours yesterday with three slots of End Mod in it.
Today I ran Ice Melee for about three hours with a three end mod slotted Energy Abosrbtion and there is absolutely no question in my mind that Power Sink is by far superiour in every way. Saying that it is twice the effectiveness may not be doing it justice.
And don't get me wrong - I really like Electric Armor and am considering playing one up. I'm just seeing this as a power that the Devs will undoubtedly zero in on. And if they don't you can bet the bank that once good (read: know what they are doing and are very effective at sapping) /Elecs make it up to the PvP zones the whining on the boards will be pretty big.
As for why a melee can't do what a Kin can....... I honestly think if you stop for a sec and think about that question Uber you would understand. You are a knowledgeable poster, and therefore understand the dynamics between high hit point, mez resistant melee characters versus mid/low hit point non mez resistant Fragiles. Some things that Fragiles can do just should not be allowable for melees or the dynamic becomes unbalanced.
In this instance a single Kin Defender for instance entering melee range to sap a Brute's endurance is more than likely going to pay the consequences by taking a good deal of damage and runs a high risk of being mezzed by some form of attack. A Brute that has this ability doesn't have the same consequences to pay with his armors and mez resistance. They can run up to anyone with near impunity and be a black hole of the Blue.
I'm not saying this power should be taken away or nerfed to the dark ages like the Developers are sometimes known to do, but right now as it stand it is imho a tad too much.
Some PvE observations as an ELM/ELA brute
with all three toggles defensive running I seemed to take more damage against council than my /EA brute on live. On live (/EA) I run Relentless and once I get a good fury built up I top my health off after a fight in case the next one is tough but I rarely get below 50%. I ran a relentless mission on test with /ELA and I was getting killed quickly without aid self. I was regularly healing up to survive a fight then trying to boost my health again on the way to the next fight.
With no self heal and no hp boosting psuedo heal I'd say this set needs inv level of S/L resistance (~32% base), and maybe a little more on the fire/cold resist too.
This set is close but not quite there. I got knocked back by the warwolf boss, I didn't get immobilized though. (if grounded was actually updated last night with status then I say the devs changes are worthless).
Didn't get a chance for slows either.
I did get to test Lightning Reflexes+Sprint+Swift=30 mph (37.5 mph with a run speed in each)
This makes lightning as fast as Swift and Quickness. For comparison unslotted SS is 54 mph (61 mph w/ sprint on)
Observations against in PvP
First let me say I rarely PvP. I was testing a Nrg/Elec blaster and doing alright damage wise against some villains (wasn't 1v1) then I got to am /ELA brute....coudn't hurt em enough I landed power bolt, power push, havoc punch, and TS and got her down to half. Once she popped her tier 9 nothing I could do. So the set doesn't seem too bad in PvP but that was also the first person I went after solo.
Anyway devs please bump the resistances up and if you've already given grounded status protection don't pull that passives aren't as good as toggles junk and give /ELA some real status protection.
*EDIT*
I did a power surge drop and got 10% health and 0 end. It also disoriented? all 3 mobs near me and debuffed their recovery. I didn't get to see if it did end drain because they were pretty much drained.
If they removed ice armor from brutes because the slowing effect it had on mob attacks was detrimental to fury why would they put in a set that allows you to drain groups to 0 end so easily which slows their attack rate?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
but as it stands this power is as good as Transference - and melees probably shouldn't be running around with that capability.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't understand this statement. Why can't a melee have this sort of capability when it requires them to, you know, be in melee? If a Kinetics character can do it at range, what's the issue?
Now if this has slipped under the covers as one of those "we forgot to reduce it to 25% of PvE" things, then sure.
Honestly, desptite 3-slotting it for end mod, I was mostly interested in the effect on my own endurance, not how much I was stealing. I actually didn't notice.
Is this particularly stronger than Ice/Energy Absorbtion? That also is auto-hit and shares the same recharge time.
[/ QUOTE ]
I ran it for several hours yesterday with three slots of End Mod in it.
Today I ran Ice Melee for about three hours with a three end mod slotted Energy Abosrbtion and there is absolutely no question in my mind that Power Sink is by far superiour in every way. Saying that it is twice the effectiveness may not be doing it justice.
And don't get me wrong - I really like Electric Armor and am considering playing one up. I'm just seeing this as a power that the Devs will undoubtedly zero in on. And if they don't you can bet the bank that once good (read: know what they are doing and are very effective at sapping) /Elecs make it up to the PvP zones the whining on the boards will be pretty big.
As for why a melee can't do what a Kin can....... I honestly think if you stop for a sec and think about that question Uber you would understand. You are a knowledgeable poster, and therefore understand the dynamics between high hit point, mez resistant melee characters versus mid/low hit point non mez resistant Fragiles. Some things that Fragiles can do just should not be allowable for melees or the dynamic becomes unbalanced.
In this instance a single Kin Defender for instance entering melee range to sap a Brute's endurance is more than likely going to pay the consequences by taking a good deal of damage and runs a high risk of being mezzed by some form of attack. A Brute that has this ability doesn't have the same consequences to pay with his armors and mez resistance. They can run up to anyone with near impunity and be a black hole of the Blue.
I'm not saying this power should be taken away or nerfed to the dark ages like the Developers are sometimes known to do, but right now as it stand it is imho a tad too much.
[/ QUOTE ]
To me this covers up the gap in ELA. I don't think it is too much when you see a set that doesn't have a self-heal or dull pain. The resists are high to energy but the smash/lethal isn't the best in the world. My martial arts scrapper last night was really doing some serious damage fast to ELA brutes. The thing that saved them was the endurance drain. I'm sure it will get adjusted down a bit but I think ELA should have the most endurance drain since it fits thematically with electric powers in general.
[ QUOTE ]
And don't get me wrong - I really like Electric Armor and am considering playing one up. I'm just seeing this as a power that the Devs will undoubtedly zero in on. And if they don't you can bet the bank that once good (read: know what they are doing and are very effective at sapping) /Elecs make it up to the PvP zones the whining on the boards will be pretty big.
[/ QUOTE ]
Perhaps I misunderstand how Transferrance works. My understanding is that it steals endurance no matter what. No one has to be in range for that to work, it's just that, if no one is in range no one gets endurance. It has a 60' base range. Of course, it is also single target, but has 1/2 the recharge of Power Sink. (Ranged AoE drain is truly a disgusting concept.)
As has been pointed out, Electric Armor/Power Sink and Energy Aura/Energy Drain seem to be identical powers.
How do you quantify the difference in performance in Ice Armor/Energy Absorbtion? Does EA just drain less end? I am honestly curious, because my SG-mate was commenting on how disgusting he felt the end drain of EA was. While EA does not transfer the endurance to the user, it seems strainge to me that the powers would be so vastly different.
I certainly expect Electric/PS and Energy/ED to be the same power. I'll be somewhat surprised if Ice/EA isn't comparable in end drain.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
The Blaster Power - Short Circuit from Electrical Blast drains about 50% endurance as well as a minor DoT. But it's downside is that it has to hit.
I enjoyed the EM/ELA Brute I rolled up last night. Solid damage and resistance to most. I completely loved the fact that the /EM Blappers were doing JACK damage to me 
!
I concur with others that ELA shouldn't have resists any higher than they are now. Since ELA can self cap to Energy, higher S/L resists would likely be unbalancing.
I can also see that Aid Self would pretty much be required to survive a Power Surge drop.
[ QUOTE ]
with all three toggles defensive running I seemed to take more damage against council than my /EA brute on live. On live (/EA) I run Relentless and once I get a good fury built up I top my health off after a fight in case the next one is tough but I rarely get below 50%. I ran a relentless mission on test with /ELA and I was getting killed quickly without aid self. I was regularly healing up to survive a fight then trying to boost my health again on the way to the next fight.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yea thats what i noticed. I've been 3-4 hit by council boss's on rel like nothing several times and im using aid self every fight even against 3 minions i need it. (runnin health/stam bulds) All def are 3res 2end. I went down on the same boss 3 times before i killed him this morning. My Ea has been known to go down every so often but not like that. Since i only soloed it i know that for a fact. On the bright side i never got kb'ed or imob so far with any of my 3 /elec so far. (knock on wood). I do find it unfair that EA can miss his drain nrg and elec is auto hit. But thats just me. lol (i expect that nerfed asap) And Tier 9 is no compairison Ea wins hands down impo. 
Elec looks cooler tho ill give it that much.. heh Guess i needs to try some other boss's, its just i allways take council mish if i can. Think ill go play with DS see how good this so called nrg res is. hehe What up with lightning reflex's am i the only one who dont see it bieng worth takeing? Cant notice a bit of that so called +recharge.. lol
Electricity Manipulation / Power Sink, however, looks exactly like the Brute version.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Yes, that's where it comes from. Most of the Electical Melee come from the Blaster versions as well as the Charged Armor from the EPP power. An Electrical Blast / Electricity Manipulation Blaster can take alot of your endurance in two attacks. I just wasn't sure how much Power Sink on the Blaster version took since I only have Short Circuit at the moment.
Oh, look at my sig, guess what I plan on doing with my Blaster. Bring your Blues.
I would like to point out to all the people comparing power sink to energy absorption that energy absorption also adds resistance to slow as well as defense to everything but psionic. So saying that power sink is superior in everyway is so not true.
Also did anyone else actually notice the EMP pulse when power surge drops?
Well I wasn't having any problems getting Aid Self off last night with two interputs, standing on an Auto Turret pounding away.
And Powersurge is awesome. Who wouldn't love being a nigh invunerable electric gremlin for 3 mins. The crash really sucks when you aren't watching for it though, like say when you are fighting a heavy and Inv tank.