Official Thread for Brutes: Electric Melee
By
13th_Stranger,
Posted on: 2006-05-01 11:58 in Developers' Corner
Since getting SO's i've really started to like these sets. At first i did'nt care much for the sounds of the attacks (save for Thunder Strike) but with all the "bzzzt's" and "crackles" i DO feel like an electric Brute and they are growing on me. Hitting a group of baddies with TS sounds SMASHtacular.
When you do get knockBACK from thunder strike, it is entirely different from the Blaster version - the Brute version is linear knockback straight out from the caster, which is very good for a brute, versus the blaster version which is radial scatter, not so great.
Has anyone seen Havoc Punch knockdown/back at all? I miss that, the blaster version has about 50% knockback. I haven't seen Brute Havoc Punch knockdown even one time.
I just find it strange that "Havoc Punch" isn't really a punch at all.
Charged Brawl should use brawl's animation and Havoc Punch should use Jab's...but I'm about 95% or more sure that they'll never change the animations.
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I beleive Chain Induction does work similarly to Confuse.
The strength (and accuracy?) of the bolt arcing from each target is based on the critter it is arcing from, not you. A bolt arcing from a Hero will do more damage than one arcing from a minion, and possibly more damage than the one arcing from you.
A bolt arcing from a Giant Monster should do interesting damage (and may crash the server if it hits another GM 
). Now, if only a team of electric brutes could reach Lusca...
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If this is the case, is Chain Induction even worth it at that point (outside of style)? You're losing experience due to your own attacks! I mean, with Confuse, at least they're not attacking you any more - it's a control. With this, it's your attack that's doing damage, so you're getting more aggro and yet losing more experience. How is this worth it? Can any of you who are competent at the whole experience loss deal with Confuse chime in with whether this would be worth it?
Dead mobs in less time is generally better for xp over time. Regarding confuse, see sig.
I am not entirely sure but I think Thunder Strike range needs boosted, supposed to be melee AOE but I can attack someone using brawl then without them moving or me moving Thunder Strike does not even hit them, not even a miss above the head. As well as standing directly in the middle of 2 and only hitting the one I was aiming at.
I agree that confuse (particularly aoes) are great for xp/time, but it's because of the control. Confused mobs are literally making you lose xp, but having the mobs controlled means you can spend less or no time defending yourself with other controls or defensive powers, spend less endurance on said powers, etc, so it literally improves your dps and dpe, and it does get you to mish bonuses faster.
However, a straight-up attack that deals xpless damage is a bad idea. You're just shooting yourself in the foot here, spending endurance and animation time for less xp than you would normally get for defeating mobs. I bet that Chain Induction's animation, end cost, and recharge time are balanced against the total damage it can do with the chains (as opposed to just the single target, xp-generating component), except you're not getting xp for that damage. That makes zero sense.
Put it this way: if chain induction's effect did enough hp that you would have been fighting one level lower, and you don't get xp for that damage, you might as well have fought something one level lower, for the same xp but less risk. The exception again being mish bonuses.
Perhapes Lightning Clap could be removed for a high damage, single target attack? Perhapes a SS style uppercut, with a bolt of lightning hitting your fist from the sky, at the peak of the punch?
Also, what's the range of Chain Induction? Could it jump between parking meters in the mayhem missions?
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I agree that confuse (particularly aoes) are great for xp/time, but it's because of the control. Confused mobs are literally making you lose xp, but having the mobs controlled means you can spend less or no time defending yourself with other controls or defensive powers, spend less endurance on said powers, etc, so it literally improves your dps and dpe, and it does get you to mish bonuses faster.
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This is a bit off topic, but you are simply wrong. Confusion can only buff xp/time, and it has nothing to do with control. To make it very simple: A confused mob does 80% of the damage to his buddy. You do the remaining 20%. Due to the way confusion-affected xp is handed out, you still get 50% of the xp even though you only had to do 1/5th the damage to kill the mob. 50% xp / 20% time = 250% xp gain in the same time, if everything were exactly that optimal - typically it's not but it's always a buff to xp over time. The control is a fabulous effect too, of course.
Aside from this, versus very hard mobs, when you confuse a bunch of +4 mobs you are at a substantial damage penalty to hurt them - but they do full damage to each other, greatly speeding up killing.
You're right, I was wrong. It had been a while since I'd read the confuse/xp numbers, and your faq cleared it up. Elec/ just got a little better in my eyes, although without knowing numbers on CI or LR, I can't pass final judgment.
Please do not get the impression it's my faq, I didn't mean to give that, I just spread the gospel of Confuse. Cforce wrote the faq.
edit: I clarified my sig, probably should have had it that way in the first place.
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I'm not sure what the point of the sleep effect is for melee attacks. YOu gotta be kidding. First of all, if I'm building fury, I'm going to unsleep the guy next hit. Also, the mob isn't trying to hit me, so not building Fury that way either. Didn't the Ice Brutes go away due to this consideration?
Some of the zero sleep effects I've run into in CoH have been nasty interrupts/toggle-droppers. It seem like this was put in for PvP only. Which is totally WRONG since PvE is the game's bread and butter and PvP just some "other thing to try out". I'm not sure what I'm getting out of this in PvE. It looks like nada since we cannot drop toggles of mobs (e.g. Longbow Warden Spines guys). And then, of course, we are paying end for the useless status effect and, as always when an attack has a status component, the attack does less damage due to the perceived benefit of the effect.
BOO on the sleep!
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Thunder Strike disorients the target, not sure on % on chance
Well, I've tried reading all the posts here with the hopes of finding out more about each powers to determine my build. I'm trying to make it well rounded to cover all the holes. Obviously its not a perfect build but I was hoping to get some of your input.
One major let down for this particular build is that I need to choose between Thunder Strike and Chain Induction. Any thoughts on which you would pick and why would be appreciated.
For those who were wondering, here is my attempt. Please be gentle but critical at the same time.
1. Havoc Punch
1. Charged Armor
2. Conductive Shield
4. Jacobs Ladder
6. Boxing
8. Combat Jumping
10. Static Shield
12. Swift
14. Super Jump
16. Health
18. Thunder Strike or Chain Induction
20. Stamina
22. Acrobatics
24. Tough
26. Lighting Reflexes
28. Aid Other
30. Aid Self
32. Lightning Rod
35. Power Sink
38. Power Surge
I was thinking of removing the Medicine Pool and carry a few more greens to compensate so I can take more attacks. Also planning on taking the Mu Mastery PPP to fit in with the electrical theme.
Your thoughts?
So far i have the first 4 attack powers- all are a lot of fun - my only complaint about the Elec Brute is the fact they dont have a self heal or even a dull pain - if they did they would be totaly awsome
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1. Havoc Punch
1. Charged Armor
2. Conductive Shield
4. Jacobs Ladder
6. Boxing
8. Combat Jumping
10. Static Shield
12. Swift
14. Super Jump
16. Health
18. Thunder Strike or Chain Induction
20. Stamina
22. Acrobatics
24. Tough
26. Lighting Reflexes
28. Aid Other
30. Aid Self
32. Lightning Rod
35. Power Sink
38. Power Surge
I was thinking of removing the Medicine Pool and carry a few more greens to compensate so I can take more attacks. Also planning on taking the Mu Mastery PPP to fit in with the electrical theme.
Your thoughts?
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I'd recommend dropping Tough instead of Aid Self. The heal provides better mitigation against all damage types, especially non-S/L ones, natch. Dropping that frees up a couple of picks which I'd use for whichever of Thunder Strike/Chain Induction you don't get at 18 and Grounded or Lightning Field. I'm personaly a big fan of Grounded, at least provisionaly, since end drains are horrid and frequent at the higher levels and it looks to give a fair big of negative energy resistance, which is kinda lacking in this set otherwise, but if you do not fear the blue suckers damage auras are pretty nice with Fury.
So those are my suggestions based on what I've seen of the set to date, good luck whatever you descide to do. 
Drop the fighting pool. Get thunder strike at 8 and CJ at 6....I'm seeing elec/elec as a potential AoE killer. By 8 I already have 3 and once I round up 8 or so minions I can take them out iwth JL + TS.
Red? Seriously?
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The attacks are missing some sounds. Charged Brawl and Havoc Punch have the electrical sounds, but lack a actually punch sound when you hit your foe. It just doesn't sound right.
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I totally agree with this. The Elec Brute's attacks lack that certain *THUD!* that makes a Brute feel like a Brute. These guys feel more like Scrappers to me. Give their hits some impact.
Mean Girls on Protector Server! The 50s: Fragdoll - DP/MM Blaster, Black Rhinoceros - WP/SS Tank, Brooke Shields - MA/SD Scrap, Fraggy - AR/En Blaster, Reign - Grav/Storm Troller, Soundquake - Earth/Sonic Troller, Blightvine - Plant/Rad Troller, Rattlesnake - Thugs/Pois MM, Operative Wasp - SoA, Arachnos Think Tank - Bots/Traps MM, Rogue Shark - Mercs/Pain MM
This is what I am planning currently.
01) --> Charged Brawl==> Acc(1)
01) --> Charged Armor==> EndRdx(1) DmgRes(3) DmgRes(3) DmgRes(5)
02) --> Havoc Punch==> Acc(2) Dmg(25)
04) --> Conductive Shield==> EndRdx(4) DmgRes(5) DmgRes(7) DmgRes(7)
06) --> Combat Jumping==> DefBuf(6)
08) --> Thunder Strike==> Acc(8) Dmg(9) Dmg(9) Dmg(13) EndRdx(15) EndRdx(15)
10) --> Static Shield==> EndRdx(10) DmgRes(11) DmgRes(11) DmgRes(13)
12) --> Swift==> Run(12)
14) --> Super Jump==> Jump(14)
16) --> Health==> Heal(16) Heal(17) Heal(17)
18) --> Chain Induction==> Acc(18) Dmg(19) Dmg(19) Dmg(21) EndRdx(21) Rechg(25)
20) --> Acrobatics==> EndRdx(20)
22) --> Stamina==> EndMod(22) EndMod(23) EndMod(23)
24) --> Lightning Reflexes==> Run(24)
26) --> Aid Other==> Heal(26) Heal(27) Heal(27)
28) --> Aid Self==> Heal(28) Heal(29) Heal(29) IntRdx(31) IntRdx(31) EndRdx(31)
30) --> Lightning Field==> Acc(30) Acc(34) EndRdx(37) EndRdx(40)
32) --> Lightning Rod==> Acc(32) Dmg(33) Dmg(33) Dmg(33) EndRdx(34) Rechg(34)
35) --> Power Sink==> EndMod(35) EndMod(36) EndMod(36) Rechg(36) Rechg(37) Rechg(37)
38) --> Power Surge==> Rechg(38) Rechg(39) Rechg(39) EndMod(39) EndMod(40) EndMod(40)
Hurdle + Combat Jumping is very much faster than Swift and staying on the ground. Different people have different opinions about CJ and what to put on it, but I notice a difference with Jump vs. without. I do not notice a difference with DefBuff vs. without. It gets you less than 1% defense (base of 2.5%).
No Jacob's Ladder? Shame.
Stimulant is a popular choice over Aid Other, to give some status resist to your squishies. In either case I sure wouldn't slot it. Those slots are more useful on Havoc Punch by far imo, you'll rarely ever be called on to toss Aid Other but you'll be throwing Havoc Punch every few seconds.
I think it is very likely that in the later game, with Powersink, you won't need end redux in all your toggles. More slots you might free up.
Might think about 3x interrupt redux instead of the 1 cost redux on Aid Self, again particularly after Powersink.
Might as well take it to 50 now that the cap is raised.
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The attacks are missing some sounds. Charged Brawl and Havoc Punch have the electrical sounds, but lack a actually punch sound when you hit your foe. It just doesn't sound right.
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I totally agree with this. The Elec Brute's attacks lack that certain *THUD!* that makes a Brute feel like a Brute. These guys feel more like Scrappers to me. Give their hits some impact.
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Heh, they don't even feel like Scrappers to me...but my Scrapper is MA, and whatever its other downsides, one cannot deny the POW involved. 
Seriously though, my biggest complaint with the set is the lack of anything meaty in the sounds. My other Brute is a Stone Melee, and perhaps she's spoiled me by shaking the whole screen, but dangit, I want to HEAR those attacks connect. Not just "brzzip". Bah, if they're gonna stick with that, we need electricity with a little more oomph and gusto...perhaps they could steal some of the sounds from Lightning Storm? ZAPPPOWW! (Granted, Lightning Rod might be the "unholy voice of a wrathful god" one expects from lightning powers....)
Some other issues, petty and non:
- I finally, after much maneuvering, got Jacob's Ladder to hit more than one. Either the cone is weird, I was just really unlucky and missed the other times I had them lined up right, or the lag was messing everything up and I actually WASN'T lining anything up. I'm leaning toward the latter, as lag was horrible today (which is why I'm here and not playing).
- JL seems to have a really long animation. Is that just me? I mean, it's not Shadow Maul long, but it seems noticeably lengthy. Argh, especially if it misses.
- Man, I know (or hope) it's just perception, but the accuracy on the attacks (especially JL) really seems slack. And before anyone says I'm "used to" SOs, I'll note that the grand majority of my characters are still working with Trainings. However, I'll bow to HeroStats view of this.
- I don't mind the red, from a theoretical viewpoint. However, I am going to have to color my costumes around it, as I really prefer colors to KINDA match. Hmm, black and red...you think those colors might catch on in Mercy? But let me tell any dev that's listening, we'd better get regular old white or blue lightning for our Electric Corruptors, or have color customization (which I'm beginning to doubt the potential existence). Red lightning makes me think "Sith", especially if you're using it from range.
- Chain Induction reducing xp would really irritate me on a purely intellectual level. Yeah, yeah, xp/time ratio and percentages, blah blah. What most people see is lost xp, and if the devs are going to extend the misconceptions about Confuse into OTHER sets, then they really should make a nice official page explaining the numbers involved, rather than leaving it up to the player-base. Perception of loss = loss to most, no matter what's actually going on behind the scenes. It's kinda like a UFC match I saw once, which went on for over 30 minutes. Sure, the announcers kept talking about the skill involved in the grappling, and how it was a real contest of endurance and stamina, and that's all true...but what most people saw, was two guys hugging each other while lying on the floor and barely moving. Perception. 
Well, I got Chain Induction not too long ago, and I must say that I'm fairly disappointed.
The initial shot does as much damage as Havoc Punch, which isn't bad, but then it arcs around doing damage that isn't mine. It's not like it matters that it's not mine because the damage sucks, quite frankly.
The chain seems to be dependent the accuracy of the enemy it's arcing from, so it can stop rather quickly. Sometimes it doesn't even get to arc at all and it's just a fancy-looking Havoc Punch.
If an affected enemy dies before the power arcs from the enemy, the chain stops.
The range on the arc is just as long as the range to initiate the attack. If enemies are too far away, the chain stops.
The bit about it doing more damage when arcing from a boss than when it arcs from a minion? Incorrect. Chain Induction arcs from a Luddite Torch Bearer (Minion) to a Luddite Friar (LT) and deals 18 damage. It then arcs from the Friar to a Luddite Crusader (Boss) and deals 18 damage. It then arcs back to the Friar from the Crusader and again deals 18 damage. These enemies were lower in level than me, but that shouldn't matter. The only thing that changes how much damage it does when it arcs is the level of the enemies it affects.
Lvl 18 is usually reserved for set-defining powers. Chain Induction, while neat, doesn't quite fit the bill.
So far, I'm liking the rest of the set, though. Admittedly, I've been taking advantage of the Pawn Shops in Mayhem Missions. I don't do it for the XP bonus, I do it because setting off all the security cameras brings you a huge load of enemies that you can herd up and then Thunderstrike the lot of 'em with full fury! WHAM!
That defines SMASH!
My understanding is when a brute hits a boss, all the jumps afterward do more damage. Compared to when a brute hits a minion and it arcs off.
So if you hit a boss do the jumps do more than if you hit a minion?
*edit*
Mr. Quizzle you make me a sad Brute (see post below)...unless it's a bug ?
Nope, they do the exact same amount. It's kinda disappointing.
Edit: and some screenshots of SMASH! , because I care.
For those of you who were dissing ThunderStrike earlier.
Delicious!
If only you could hear what that sounds like, you'd know why it's called ThunderStrike.
My Elec/Elec Brute is only 6 but so far I like her.
I have found a slight graphic glitch with Jacob's ladder though. It (for lack of a better term) "flattens" the graphics on the edges of it's effect when it reaches the end of the arc. A minor issue but it does look a little odd.