Official Thread for Masterminds: Thugs
By
008Zulu,
Posted on: 2006-05-01 11:49 in Developers' Corner
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Now that I'm a "pistol-packing momma", I really need to accessorize my costume with a set of holsters. I could use either belt or shoulder holsters (or ideally, a choice between both). I realize it's probably way too late for new art work in Issue 7, but could we add holsters to the list for a future release?
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/signed
Personally I think its a bit rediculous to be pulling out 50 cal. sized handguns from what appear be secret compartments in my torso?
Just hit level 18, spent a few minutes testing gang war and the arsonist, and there is a SERIOUS problem!
GANG WAR AI IS BROKEN!!!
They would attack the target I summoned them on ONCE and then mill around, and I counted maybe 3 attacks from then on until they desummoned.
I can accept that they don't fight hard the whole time, or that they cannot be commanded, but come on, 1 cycle then watch me fight?
Other than that, great so far, the arsonist rocks, his scourge is a nice addition, and between him and my enforcer I'm getting some nice AoE pwnage.
BUT PLEASE FIX GANG WAR AI!!!111eleventy
Gang War seems to be set in Defensive/Follow. As soon as I or anyone following me is hit with any attack/debuff/control, the Posse attacks.
Also, I've catalouged all the powers the henchmen use (including Gang War) up to level 20. It's in the MM section, enjoy!
[B]The Once and Future Official Minister of Awesome[/B]
[I]And don't you forget it.[/I]
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The pistols are fantastic. The only problem I have with Thugs MMs is that none of the secondaries seem to fit, and I can't even think of one that would.
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Poison:
Why, most of the gang members I have worked with, either sold, used, or made drugs. Drugs are Poison, but some can help (until they get abused...). Poison is clearly the logical choice for this one if your looking for something that "fits"
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ID like to see Radiation Emission
but renamed to controlled substances
and different animations
or in the poison set make Antidote a group heal and swich places with Weaken. or just make alkaloid a group heal.
also if one of the 2n tear thug had the empathy power set
to mach the lower defence of the thugs, wold be nice (the heal other and healing aura, whth clear mind or fortitude as upgrade options).
Ok, just made a thug MM on test last night. And I have one thing to say about the first tier pets.
The word "punk" means "tacky". So, the bad hair day and tacky clothes is "punky". "punk" does not mean "gansta".
I built a Thug/Dark Mastermind (kind of a rogue Skull Bone Daddy concept) and tried it out for a bit. Wound up stuck in Port Oakes while that bug was up. Anyway, these are my impressions of the set.
1) The pistol attacks are pretty good stuff. For a game simulating a comic book feel (not reality or gritty action movies) they do a good job of feeling like pistols.
2) The first tier Thugs are interesting.
a) They're described as skilled Brawlers, but they favor range more strongly than the Bots, who are horrible in melee. I don't so much mind, of course.
b) ...because their Pistol attacks are comparable to your own.
c) Art-wise, I'm not sure how I feel about them using revolvers. Like many art choices for attacks, it's something that's so effort-intensive to alter, I just don't see it happening any time soon. But it's not the most "punk" weapon in the world. I like it on the principle that these guys would be robbing convenience stores without my leadership, though.
d) Lacking any buffs (only Dark power taken til 10 was the Heal), they seem to hold up pretty well to damage through Level 11. I make the caveat, because I'm just beginning to have trouble with them when one gets a lot of attention (or attention from a Boss). But of course, all the first tier pets go down hard under that kind of assault.
3) Once I got Empty Clip, I found I would swiftly run out of End if I used it regularly - not on "auto" but... Using Empty Clip in conjunction with other powers quickly led to a very dry End reserve.
a) Empty Clip's arc of fire seems VERY wide. I keep seeing damage numbers popping up over objects that are immediately but completely to the left or right of me.
4) I know this has been stated, but the Equip Thug animation is extremely similar to the Equip Merc animation, and that's a little disappointing. I'd rather have I7 out the door sooner, but I would humbly request that this be considered for revision.
Overall, I'd say they performed up to the level of other MM sets. Honestly, I think the Thug set attacks are a little better than some of the others, but that seems fitting, since the Thugs seem to lack integral defenses. The Pistols don't do a *ton* of damage, so the Pets can still pull the hate off of you, but they do enough damage (again, this is L11 and down) to be useful.
DeusExMachina
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Gang War seems to be set in Defensive/Follow. As soon as I or anyone following me is hit with any attack/debuff/control, the Posse attacks.
Also, I've catalouged all the powers the henchmen use (including Gang War) up to level 20. It's in the MM section, enjoy!
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If its set to defensive/follow, its broken, I was being attacked 2 feet from them and they were doing nothing to help, and one would get hit and the others would ignore it. Maybe this is just an issue I am having, but in the current state gang war is completely useless to me, except maybe as a PvP distraction.
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Gang War seems to be set in Defensive/Follow. As soon as I or anyone following me is hit with any attack/debuff/control, the Posse attacks.
Also, I've catalouged all the powers the henchmen use (including Gang War) up to level 20. It's in the MM section, enjoy!
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If its set to defensive/follow, its broken, I was being attacked 2 feet from them and they were doing nothing to help, and one would get hit and the others would ignore it. Maybe this is just an issue I am having, but in the current state gang war is completely useless to me, except maybe as a PvP distraction.
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I've had great success with Gang War. Took down Balista-1 and Silver Mantis today without even losing a thug.
I would like to hear some Dev confirmation as to whether it is bugged or not. A lot of people seem to think it is.
I have had NOTHING but trouble with gang war. 95-98% of the time they stand around and do nothing at all. 1% of the time they die within seconds of summoning to a villian AoE and 1% of the time they might start attacking.
They clog hallways, door ways and without me being able to tell them where to go I have to make so many double backs to 'pull' them out of doors I can't get through with them all standing there.
I am 1 bub from 20 with my thug mastermind and with gang war in its current form I would never take it on live. Since you need to target an enemy to summon the Gang War you would think they would at least start off by attacking the enemy you targeted but most of the time they just run from that enemy to stand in front of me and do nothing as I die.
Jade Pictures
DoIDD
Lady-Jade's Power Suggestion Thread
@Lady-Jade
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Since you need to target an enemy to summon the Gang War you would think they would at least start off by attacking the enemy you targeted but most of the time they just run from that enemy to stand in front of me and do nothing as I die.
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When I use it, they do run towards me until a foe lands an attack. Then they swarm around the target bashing on it until something else catches their attention. I will agree that they need to attack your target immediately.
If you think the Gang War AI is bad, wait until you see the Bruiser. They love to run in circles and get lodged behind every object in the room. 
Sounds like they need to change it to a targetted AoE, that can be used w/o needing an enemy, and make them aggressive to anything that's an enemy...
Yeah, I would agree thats a problem. If anything, they should be super (and ineffectively by way of changing targets a lot) agro. I mean, its called "Gang War", your calling these guys to make a mess out of some mooks! Of course, I don't want to make this a "I win" button, have them very agro, just do light damage. That fits conceptually too, these are your second stringers and hangers on, losers that just don't have the stuff for your regular escapades but are still dying to prove their worth to the set. They should jump at the chance to do some damage and mix it up with the enemy, but they should still be pretty weak.
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Sounds like they need to change it to a targetted AoE, that can be used w/o needing an enemy, and make them aggressive to anything that's an enemy...
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That would be nice, but I don't expect them to make them targeted AoE. Why not? Pocket D. The other reason is that they really, really want you to have to go to close-ish range and line of sight to use it; they don't want it being fired around corners or even just through doors against enemies that aren't in line of sight.
But yeah, making them aggressive is almost necessary to get any use out of them at all. As it now stands, about one time in three that I summon them they don't even try to hit anything, or maybe take a swipe or two as the fight winds down. And if they're going to spawn as follow/defensive, let's go ahead and rename it Fan Club and be done with it.
I would love if that big pack of second-stringers in Gang War would rampage throughout the level, after helping with whatever enemy you used to summon them with. In other words, you summon them on a spawn, they assist in beating that enemy down, and then they tear off (as a group) against the nearest other spawn. The damage they do wouldn't be very good, and of course they'd be really weak, so they'd probably die against the next spawn without you there helping them. Or even with you there. They'd still fade out after the usual time.
Basically, you'd either have to hold off on using them until the big bad Boss at the end of the mission, or accept the potential mass of aggro they might generate and bring back. Thematically, it'd fit - sort of a "Unleash the dogs!"
It'd also have the handy side bonus of preparing you to team with that Brute who can generate Fury like mad, but uses NONE of their defenses. 
Seriously though, it'd be the basic equivalent of that, except you'd sacrifice a good attack chain for lots of needling-type damage.
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Ok, just made a thug MM on test last night. And I have one thing to say about the first tier pets.
The word "punk" means "tacky". So, the bad hair day and tacky clothes is "punky". "punk" does not mean "gansta".
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I noticed this too, from screens I've seen of what the Thug Pets eventually look like when fully upgraded, they're Thugs. However, the first tear "thugs" that you summon are nothing but punks, wanna-bes, which I guess makes sense in the log run, but it's a little odd at first, you know, because "thug" to me means Gangster or even moreso Mobster, not some punk kid.
Well, There is ANOTHER glitch with the Posse...(if it has been stated...Oops)
You Can target the Posse for upgrades...the clip even flies into their hand....they glow....aaaand.....nothing. They are the same old useless pile of scuzz LoL
Castor and Pollux are figures in Greek Mythology, children of Zeus and Leda the swan and sibs to Helen of Troy. No idea about the others.
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I believe he is speaking about Castor and Pollux Troy who were brothers from the movie Face/Off with John Travolta and Nick Cage.
where is the secondary for thugs?
i seen it in the video!
i am guessing it was over powered, so they dropped it.
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Gang War seems to be set in Defensive/Follow. As soon as I or anyone following me is hit with any attack/debuff/control, the Posse attacks.
Also, I've catalouged all the powers the henchmen use (including Gang War) up to level 20. It's in the MM section, enjoy!
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If its set to defensive/follow, its broken, I was being attacked 2 feet from them and they were doing nothing to help, and one would get hit and the others would ignore it. Maybe this is just an issue I am having, but in the current state gang war is completely useless to me, except maybe as a PvP distraction.
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I've had great success with Gang War. Took down Balista-1 and Silver Mantis today without even losing a thug.
I would like to hear some Dev confirmation as to whether it is bugged or not. A lot of people seem to think it is.
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Sent a PM to _Castle_, got no response (that was yesterday)
Anyone know if there is a more appropriate red name to ask?
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where is the secondary for thugs?
i seen it in the video!
i am guessing it was over powered, so they dropped it.
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SAW it? What video? What do you THINK you saw? Considering there's 4 new PATRON power-sets out for MM's it's entirely possible it was a power from one of those... or maybe even a power from an existing set you've just never seen before.
Also an FYI: It takes MONTHS to build a new power-set. They don't just throw them away. If one was overpowered they'd rework it. Just ask old-school regen scrappers. 
All joking aside, power-sets are too resource intensive for them to just throw away for any reason.
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Gang War seems to be set in Defensive/Follow. As soon as I or anyone following me is hit with any attack/debuff/control, the Posse attacks.
Also, I've catalouged all the powers the henchmen use (including Gang War) up to level 20. It's in the MM section, enjoy!
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If its set to defensive/follow, its broken, I was being attacked 2 feet from them and they were doing nothing to help, and one would get hit and the others would ignore it. Maybe this is just an issue I am having, but in the current state gang war is completely useless to me, except maybe as a PvP distraction.
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I've had great success with Gang War. Took down Balista-1 and Silver Mantis today without even losing a thug.
I would like to hear some Dev confirmation as to whether it is bugged or not. A lot of people seem to think it is.
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Sent a PM to _Castle_, got no response (that was yesterday)
Anyone know if there is a more appropriate red name to ask?
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Positron seemed to be most active with MM's during CoV beta. You could try him.
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where is the secondary for thugs?
i seen it in the video!
i am guessing it was over powered, so they dropped it.
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SAW it? What video? What do you THINK you saw? Considering there's 4 new PATRON power-sets out for MM's it's entirely possible it was a power from one of those... or maybe even a power from an existing set you've just never seen before.
Also an FYI: It takes MONTHS to build a new power-set. They don't just throw them away. If one was overpowered they'd rework it. Just ask old-school regen scrappers.
All joking aside, power-sets are too resource intensive for them to just throw away for any reason.
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ok maybe i am a little nuts. but in the grandville video ( at 00:54) the MM in the cowboy hat is clearly doing a move using the "pbaoe buff" animation, and a symbol unused so far in the game. if it is a patron move, can some one plz confirm?
the guy in the middle in this picture
and my over powered state ment came from it's appearance, like a clock. and if it's a buff, so it could be a mini hasten buff. imo
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and my over powered state ment came from it's appearance, like a clock. and if it's a buff, so it could be a mini hasten buff. imo
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That appears to be Ghost Widow's patron symbol.
I think it's Dark Embrace (the armor).
I know Scorpion Shield overlayed Black Scorpion's symbol, so that would only make sense.
Now that I'm a "pistol-packing momma", I really need to accessorize my costume with a set of holsters. I could use either belt or shoulder holsters (or ideally, a choice between both). I realize it's probably way too late for new art work in Issue 7, but could we add holsters to the list for a future release?