I don't know if someone broke this down yet I'm too lazy too look for it.
# of Pets : % Damage resisted by Master Mind.
6 pets : 75%
5 Pets : 71.4%
4 Pets : 66.7%
3 Pets : 60%
2 Pets : 50%
1 Pet : 33.3%
For those saying Bodyguard will not change their mode of play, you must make horrible use of what you have at your disposal. I don't know about you guys but I would love it if my arch type received a new ability to grant themselves 75% pure damage resistance at will. So what if you can't attack while doing this? No offense, but if you think this power is meant to be left on for the duration of the battle, maybe you shouldn't be pvping. You see a Katana scrapper run at you and hitting build up, you better hit that bodyguard or you will probably be brought to 1 hp (as per new one-shot nerf). In fact, with that new bodyguard, not only will you not be reduced to 1 hp, you will only receive around 200 dmg tops and thats if they crit.
Think about it. Say a scrapper can land 600 damage on you with Build and crit. If you had bodyguard on with 6 pets out, you will only recieve 150 damage. Each of your pets will receive 75 dmg. Oh noes? I think not.
Of course, it would be nice if my minions didn't charge across the map and out of supremacy range attacking unknown enemies and thus rendering Bodyguard useless.
I'd call that a showstopping bug and it really bothers me that they're getting ready to go live with it unfixed.
I have an idea. It starts with 's' and ends with 'litting their throats.'"
-Belkar Bitterleaf, Order of the Stick
Order of the Stick
[ QUOTE ]
I don't know if someone broke this down yet I'm too lazy too look for it.
# of Pets : % Damage resisted by Master Mind.
6 pets : 75%
5 Pets : 71.4%
4 Pets : 66.7%
3 Pets : 60%
2 Pets : 50%
1 Pet : 33.3%
For those saying Bodyguard will not change their mode of play, you must make horrible use of what you have at your disposal. I don't know about you guys but I would love it if my arch type received a new ability to grant themselves 75% pure damage resistance at will. So what if you can't attack while doing this? No offense, but if you think this power is meant to be left on for the duration of the battle, maybe you shouldn't be pvping. You see a Katana scrapper run at you and hitting build up, you better hit that bodyguard or you will probably be brought to 1 hp (as per new one-shot nerf). In fact, with that new bodyguard, not only will you not be reduced to 1 hp, you will only receive around 200 dmg tops and thats if they crit.
Think about it. Say a scrapper can land 600 damage on you with Build and crit. If you had bodyguard on with 6 pets out, you will only recieve 150 damage. Each of your pets will receive 75 dmg. Oh noes? I think not.
[/ QUOTE ]
Heres a test you can do. Take 2 pieces of paper. Soak them for 30 seconds in warm water. Pick up the paper, using your right index finger and thumb hold them away from your body. Grab a knife, jab at the paper and observe how long it took to cut through it. Now get 4 pieces of paper and do it again.
Result= Although adding 2 more pieces of paper on top of the ones you already had prevented the knife from going through just as fast, it merely slowed it a fraction of a second. Wet paper cannot hide the fact it has no defense against a knife.
Your figure for heroes PFF is wrong. The base recharge is about 30 seconds, 3 slotted with recharge it comes back in 15 seconds. I know this because I am slotted this way.
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
Also, Critical Hits, and Assassins Strike AND Non S/L damage cut right through temp invuln and force of nature.
Furthermore, Mass Hypnosis is not a Confuse power, it is AoE sleep, boy THAT's useful in PvP :P
And what is to stop villains from casting grant invisibility on their stalker friends?
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
[ QUOTE ]
while the pets get no resistance to the shared damage.
[/ QUOTE ]
So, say a group member puts sonic or fire shields on my bots, those shields somehow cease to exist when the bot interposes itself between me and the attack? That's just dumb. The attack should auto-hit on the bot of course, but the bot's resistances should still apply, his metal hide, or any resistance based shields aren't going to just vanish.
[ QUOTE ]
sounds like Masterminds are about to become a lot more Tankery to me.
could be fun.
I'll have to see how it works out though
[/ QUOTE ]
It seems to me that MMs are supposed to fill that function in CoV in the first place...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
while the pets get no resistance to the shared damage.
[/ QUOTE ]
So, say a group member puts sonic or fire shields on my bots, those shields somehow cease to exist when the bot interposes itself between me and the attack? That's just dumb. The attack should auto-hit on the bot of course, but the bot's resistances should still apply, his metal hide, or any resistance based shields aren't going to just vanish.
[/ QUOTE ]
i know it should, but it doesnt. dummmmmmbb
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't know if someone broke this down yet I'm too lazy too look for it.
# of Pets : % Damage resisted by Master Mind.
6 pets : 75%
5 Pets : 71.4%
4 Pets : 66.7%
3 Pets : 60%
2 Pets : 50%
1 Pet : 33.3%
For those saying Bodyguard will not change their mode of play, you must make horrible use of what you have at your disposal. I don't know about you guys but I would love it if my arch type received a new ability to grant themselves 75% pure damage resistance at will. So what if you can't attack while doing this? No offense, but if you think this power is meant to be left on for the duration of the battle, maybe you shouldn't be pvping. You see a Katana scrapper run at you and hitting build up, you better hit that bodyguard or you will probably be brought to 1 hp (as per new one-shot nerf). In fact, with that new bodyguard, not only will you not be reduced to 1 hp, you will only receive around 200 dmg tops and thats if they crit.
Think about it. Say a scrapper can land 600 damage on you with Build and crit. If you had bodyguard on with 6 pets out, you will only recieve 150 damage. Each of your pets will receive 75 dmg. Oh noes? I think not.
[/ QUOTE ]
Heres a test you can do. Take 2 pieces of paper. Soak them for 30 seconds in warm water. Pick up the paper, using your right index finger and thumb hold them away from your body. Grab a knife, jab at the paper and observe how long it took to cut through it. Now get 4 pieces of paper and do it again.
Result= Although adding 2 more pieces of paper on top of the ones you already had prevented the knife from going through just as fast, it merely slowed it a fraction of a second. Wet paper cannot hide the fact it has no defense against a knife.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's the worst analogy I've ever heard. Have you even tested this bodyguard stance? Your post reeks with 'NO'. I suppose an average constant 60%+ resistance to all damage can be compared to wet paper. I guess I need to learn to think outside of the box. I eagerly await a realistic educated response from you.
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Of course, it would be nice if my minions didn't charge across the map and out of supremacy range attacking unknown enemies and thus rendering Bodyguard useless.
[/ QUOTE ]
You are sure you have them on defend stance when this happens? Becuase it does not happen to me unless they are aggressive.
Then you are one lucky SOB.
My pets will periodicly flat out disobey/ignore my orders. I set them to heel, and go to here. (key bind, all pets, go to here, passive) Then they flat out ignore me and run off into the sunset, perhaps seeking hot robot love. Not just attacking some target in my scanning range, but running away never to be seen again as they die of aggro. They just pick a direction and go.
Count you self lucky if you have not experienced the Willful Disobedient Pet Sydrome.
Surely you have READ of this problem by now, even if you have not had it happen to YOU.This was a MAJOR shiite storm a while bad. You are in fact, the ONLY MM I have ever heared of NOT having this problem now and then. The only solution is to dismiss them and respawn. The first time it happened, I was like W T F? Then I talked to my MM buddies. "Oh yah, happens all the time. just dismiss them and respawn. This is nothing new."
Dr Tanaka 50 Stone/Stone Tank
Cool MacCool 50 AR/Ice Blaster
Cold MacCool 50 ice/ice Blaster
Alura Darkstone 41 Brute Dark/Stone
Dr Akanat 40 Brute Stone/Stone
and many more
For the most part I don't have to deal with this. In the early days (beta, first few weeks of live launch) it was part and parcel of the MM life. Trust me, it blows. However, sometimes when I'm in a mission (only with teammates evidently) and I tell everyone to hold up, the MM is getting set. I'm not saying this to hold the team up and miss out on killing stuff etc. I'm saying it because if you run off and start fighting cons while i'm still summoning/buffing my minions, they'll run off helter skelter to try and join the party when they still don't have their pants on! I end up doing an endless cycle of summons/buffs because i can NEVER get my whole troop out and ready to go, without some moron deciding to get that one quick kill in, that breaks up my minions all over the map. Once that happens, they ignore orders, and go about trying to cause their own death and destruction. After the teamwipe ppl are like "Control ur minions, gawd!" And i usually kick them from the team at that point. It's an issue, and i'm cranky about it.
Dai-San: "You Not true Mu, you fake Mu. Me want Mu Mu, not you Mu." ~in response to I7
Dai-San: "You point, me smash." Brutz rulz 101
Sig Truncated
Reeks of no huh.
Well, yes I have tested it quite extensively. I really dont want to drag this out much cause im beyond caring anymore about how much MM suck now. Pets die too fast,go out of supreme range too often and have to be kept in defensive mode for this to work. This "constant" 60% assumes all pets are in defensive, handicapping you from the start. Anyway long story short MM are the extreme squishy and body guard doesnt change the fact that they are by far the easiest things to kill next to rikti monkeys. Had the devs given them an actual 60%+ res everyone on both sides would be screaming bloody murder of how unfair that really is.
[ QUOTE ]
Reeks of no huh.
Well, yes I have tested it quite extensively. I really dont want to drag this out much cause im beyond caring anymore about how much MM suck now. Pets die too fast,go out of supreme range too often and have to be kept in defensive mode for this to work. This "constant" 60% assumes all pets are in defensive, handicapping you from the start. Anyway long story short MM are the extreme squishy and body guard doesnt change the fact that they are by far the easiest things to kill next to rikti monkeys. Had the devs given them an actual 60%+ res everyone on both sides would be screaming bloody murder of how unfair that really is.
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh man, I'm so sorry. I totally messed up. 
I thought I was talking to someone who knew how to play a Mastermind.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't know if someone broke this down yet I'm too lazy too look for it.
# of Pets : % Damage resisted by Master Mind.
6 pets : 75%
5 Pets : 71.4%
4 Pets : 66.7%
3 Pets : 60%
2 Pets : 50%
1 Pet : 33.3%
For those saying Bodyguard will not change their mode of play, you must make horrible use of what you have at your disposal. I don't know about you guys but I would love it if my arch type received a new ability to grant themselves 75% pure damage resistance at will. So what if you can't attack while doing this? No offense, but if you think this power is meant to be left on for the duration of the battle, maybe you shouldn't be pvping. You see a Katana scrapper run at you and hitting build up, you better hit that bodyguard or you will probably be brought to 1 hp (as per new one-shot nerf). In fact, with that new bodyguard, not only will you not be reduced to 1 hp, you will only receive around 200 dmg tops and thats if they crit.
Think about it. Say a scrapper can land 600 damage on you with Build and crit. If you had bodyguard on with 6 pets out, you will only recieve 150 damage. Each of your pets will receive 75 dmg. Oh noes? I think not.
[/ QUOTE ]
Heres a test you can do. Take 2 pieces of paper. Soak them for 30 seconds in warm water. Pick up the paper, using your right index finger and thumb hold them away from your body. Grab a knife, jab at the paper and observe how long it took to cut through it. Now get 4 pieces of paper and do it again.
Result= Although adding 2 more pieces of paper on top of the ones you already had prevented the knife from going through just as fast, it merely slowed it a fraction of a second. Wet paper cannot hide the fact it has no defense against a knife.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's the worst analogy I've ever heard. Have you even tested this bodyguard stance? Your post reeks with 'NO'. I suppose an average constant 60%+ resistance to all damage can be compared to wet paper. I guess I need to learn to think outside of the box. I eagerly await a realistic educated response from you.
[/ QUOTE ]
Bodyguard is pretty worthless, There, I've said it. I'm a 40 bots/bubbles, and I've tested it in PvP and PvE. In both types of combat, the minions will stand around and NOT respond to attacks (both those that hit as well as those that miss). This forces you to take them off of bodyguard if you want to fight back and defend yourself...reducing your bodyguard contingent, and thus your imaginary resistance to damage. As an MM, my damage is far from being "burst", so if I don't choose to use a large number of my pets (read as All of them, or nearly so) There is no way I can do enough damage to be a threat and will therefore be pummeled to death at the liesure of the hero fighting me. In PvP this means that bodyguard is virtually worthless for me, ESPECIALLY since none of the defenses (I'm a FF secondary) that I place on my bots do any good at all.
In PvE, I never use bodyguard, because I never get aggro. My bots hold aggro, and taken as a whole, they have better defenses and resistances than I do even WITH bodyguard. Why on earth would I reduce my firepower when I am never targeted anyway??? This was never needed for PvE...and it doesn't work for PvP.
People have been saying that Bodyguard grants MMs a huge resistance to damage. If thats what you choose to believe, fine, but don't try to convince me, because I've actually tested it, and I can tell you that the reality is far less than what the description suggests. Perhaps if the pet AI was worth half a darn it would be useful, but currently it is a joke.
The description of the katana scrapper coming to hit me is laughable. I'm NOT going to just stand there and let anybody just hit me. I've got combat jumping for a reason, and there is no way I'm going to just stand still while someone beats on me. That being said, the PETS themselves are virtually immobile. They have no real movement ability, which means that if I want to move with my team, my pets will be left behind. If I want to pursue a target, my pets are left behind. Unfortunately...if the pets are left behind, bodyguard becomes so many worthless letters describing another worthless power in my arsenal.
Suriyama
40 bots and bubbles
Justice
(and yes, I PvP on a regular basis, 400 rep, and thats WITHOUT bodyguard. Personally, I'd much rather them take bodyguard back, and let me have the old cycle time on PFF. I don't want to hide in it like a turtle, I want to be able to throw it on and off just like all of the HERO AT's are still able to do.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Reeks of no huh.
Well, yes I have tested it quite extensively. I really dont want to drag this out much cause im beyond caring anymore about how much MM suck now. Pets die too fast,go out of supreme range too often and have to be kept in defensive mode for this to work. This "constant" 60% assumes all pets are in defensive, handicapping you from the start. Anyway long story short MM are the extreme squishy and body guard doesnt change the fact that they are by far the easiest things to kill next to rikti monkeys. Had the devs given them an actual 60%+ res everyone on both sides would be screaming bloody murder of how unfair that really is.
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh man, I'm so sorry. I totally messed up.
I thought I was talking to someone who knew how to play a Mastermind.
[/ QUOTE ]
Right like that offends me. Sorry I graduated 2nd grade about 20 years ago. I dont care for the power simple as that. I dont see it as effective and really think its an ill concieved idea.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Reeks of no huh.
Well, yes I have tested it quite extensively. I really dont want to drag this out much cause im beyond caring anymore about how much MM suck now. Pets die too fast,go out of supreme range too often and have to be kept in defensive mode for this to work. This "constant" 60% assumes all pets are in defensive, handicapping you from the start. Anyway long story short MM are the extreme squishy and body guard doesnt change the fact that they are by far the easiest things to kill next to rikti monkeys. Had the devs given them an actual 60%+ res everyone on both sides would be screaming bloody murder of how unfair that really is.
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh man, I'm so sorry. I totally messed up.
I thought I was talking to someone who knew how to play a Mastermind.
[/ QUOTE ]
Brass Monkey, from what I have been reading, this poster does know how to play an MM. However, nowhere on your sig does it mention an MM that you play. Is it that perhaps YOU are the one who has no experience....or no REAL experience I should say...with the AT?
Suriyama
40 bots and bubbles
Justice
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't know if someone broke this down yet I'm too lazy too look for it.
# of Pets : % Damage resisted by Master Mind.
6 pets : 75%
5 Pets : 71.4%
4 Pets : 66.7%
3 Pets : 60%
2 Pets : 50%
1 Pet : 33.3%
For those saying Bodyguard will not change their mode of play, you must make horrible use of what you have at your disposal. I don't know about you guys but I would love it if my arch type received a new ability to grant themselves 75% pure damage resistance at will. So what if you can't attack while doing this? No offense, but if you think this power is meant to be left on for the duration of the battle, maybe you shouldn't be pvping. You see a Katana scrapper run at you and hitting build up, you better hit that bodyguard or you will probably be brought to 1 hp (as per new one-shot nerf). In fact, with that new bodyguard, not only will you not be reduced to 1 hp, you will only receive around 200 dmg tops and thats if they crit.
Think about it. Say a scrapper can land 600 damage on you with Build and crit. If you had bodyguard on with 6 pets out, you will only recieve 150 damage. Each of your pets will receive 75 dmg. Oh noes? I think not.
[/ QUOTE ]
Heres a test you can do. Take 2 pieces of paper. Soak them for 30 seconds in warm water. Pick up the paper, using your right index finger and thumb hold them away from your body. Grab a knife, jab at the paper and observe how long it took to cut through it. Now get 4 pieces of paper and do it again.
Result= Although adding 2 more pieces of paper on top of the ones you already had prevented the knife from going through just as fast, it merely slowed it a fraction of a second. Wet paper cannot hide the fact it has no defense against a knife.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's the worst analogy I've ever heard. Have you even tested this bodyguard stance? Your post reeks with 'NO'. I suppose an average constant 60%+ resistance to all damage can be compared to wet paper. I guess I need to learn to think outside of the box. I eagerly await a realistic educated response from you.
[/ QUOTE ]
Bodyguard is pretty worthless, There, I've said it. I'm a 40 bots/bubbles, and I've tested it in PvP and PvE. In both types of combat, the minions will stand around and NOT respond to attacks (both those that hit as well as those that miss). This forces you to take them off of bodyguard if you want to fight back and defend yourself...reducing your bodyguard contingent, and thus your imaginary resistance to damage. As an MM, my damage is far from being "burst", so if I don't choose to use a large number of my pets (read as All of them, or nearly so) There is no way I can do enough damage to be a threat and will therefore be pummeled to death at the liesure of the hero fighting me. In PvP this means that bodyguard is virtually worthless for me, ESPECIALLY since none of the defenses (I'm a FF secondary) that I place on my bots do any good at all.
In PvE, I never use bodyguard, because I never get aggro. My bots hold aggro, and taken as a whole, they have better defenses and resistances than I do even WITH bodyguard. Why on earth would I reduce my firepower when I am never targeted anyway??? This was never needed for PvE...and it doesn't work for PvP.
People have been saying that Bodyguard grants MMs a huge resistance to damage. If thats what you choose to believe, fine, but don't try to convince me, because I've actually tested it, and I can tell you that the reality is far less than what the description suggests. Perhaps if the pet AI was worth half a darn it would be useful, but currently it is a joke.
The description of the katana scrapper coming to hit me is laughable. I'm NOT going to just stand there and let anybody just hit me. I've got combat jumping for a reason, and there is no way I'm going to just stand still while someone beats on me. That being said, the PETS themselves are virtually immobile. They have no real movement ability, which means that if I want to move with my team, my pets will be left behind. If I want to pursue a target, my pets are left behind. Unfortunately...if the pets are left behind, bodyguard becomes so many worthless letters describing another worthless power in my arsenal.
Suriyama
40 bots and bubbles
Justice
(and yes, I PvP on a regular basis, 400 rep, and thats WITHOUT bodyguard. Personally, I'd much rather them take bodyguard back, and let me have the old cycle time on PFF. I don't want to hide in it like a turtle, I want to be able to throw it on and off just like all of the HERO AT's are still able to do.
[/ QUOTE ]
Im am so sorry you wasted your time typing all this out so that you will be called childish names by those who know better then you. I for one feel your pain after testing bodyguard and feel it is worthless as well. But we, sady, dont know how to play masterminds and should stop posting on the subject because we suck. Goodluck to you on your future AT, hopefully you know how to play it better then this one.
I'm sorry if you don't like it, but my experiences with mastermind have been very favorable. I'm even thinking of getting the Presence power pool so I can 'tank' with my mastermind.
[ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry if you don't like it, but my experiences with mastermind have been very favorable. I'm even thinking of getting the Presence power pool so I can 'tank' with my mastermind.
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh, I LOVE mastermind. My bots/bubbles kicks butt and takes names in both PvE and PvP. What I find to be worthless is Bodyguard. I've even played quite a bit with the thug MM on test (thugs dark) and find it to be a very fun MM as well (don't bother getting gangwar btw.....its not worth it).
Bodyguard is what we were talking about. The power does not fix the glaring problems that people have been complaining about. It MIGHT if the minion AI actually worked, but alas....it doesn't.
Why is gangwar not worth it?
Haven't gotten my thuggodark there yet so i'm curious. Generally whenever i read a power description and thing "Oh my gawd, i can't WAIT to get this, this sounds AWESOME!" i usually prepare myself for the heartbreaking standard cryptic snafu. Power sound good, reality doesn't work out that way.
So, seeing as how you've already been there, disillusion me, so i don't have to deal with being angry that i picked yet another useless power.
*glares at powers tweakers/nerfers*
I'm still mad about that regen thing ya know...
Dai-San: "You Not true Mu, you fake Mu. Me want Mu Mu, not you Mu." ~in response to I7
Dai-San: "You point, me smash." Brutz rulz 101
Sig Truncated
Yep, I'm definitely a thread killer.
*changes costume, cues creepy music, and contemplates changing his sig*
Dai-San: "You Not true Mu, you fake Mu. Me want Mu Mu, not you Mu." ~in response to I7
Dai-San: "You point, me smash." Brutz rulz 101
Sig Truncated
To General Hades and The_Solitair:
Perhaps you are right and I should not resort to petty insults, I know that got this discussion absolutely nowhere. But it is very irritating for me to see a change such as this come out and for people to blow it off as if it is nothing. Keep in mind, Hades was the one to reply to my resistance numbers with an analogy that was far beyond the scope of the Bodyguard stance in some hope of defending his side of the issue.
I am not quite sure what you guys were expecting for MMs. Sure The_Solitaire, reverse the changes on PFF. You may not hide in it, but many people do. And what good does PFF do for MMs who are not /Force Field? Nothing. But I'll tell you what what does do something for all MMs and that is bodyguard. I will also tell you which secondary it overpowers and that is Dark Miasma.
I am not sure how you guys are testing this. I agree it is useless in PvE, but I really doubt MMs needed help for PvE anyway so we can safely eliminate that as a con to the stance. This is strictly to help the MM out in PvP. I can't stress enough, this was not meant to be a resistance power that you leave on constantly. I feel like everyone went into a PvP zone, left the stance on and are now like "omg, i cant kill people now, this sucks". Well.. turn it off after they alpha strike. Its extremely situational. But, if used correctly, and I am sorry but apparently none of you are, this can be an extremely overpowered ability.
I challenge any of you to take one last look at your abilities. Come up with a strategy. This wont be like every other AT that can turn things on and go. You are not an invuln tank. You are a Master Mind, and as one, you have a wide array of abilities at your disposal. Use them! Come up with something! No matter how many nerfs/buffs/changes all of my characters have undergone, they have never became less effective. I used that free respec that was given to me and made my character BE useful with the things I had.
But basically what you guys are trying to tell me is you can't think of one good way to use a no-end, no-recharge, no-activation time pet stance that grants you 75% full resistance to all damage types on your MM.
I retract my statement about you not knowing how to play a Master Mind. But I do say you adapt horribly to change and do not work well with you have at your disposal.
So far I've found bodyguard to be very situational and not something to be used often. I'm a bot MM and using my minions for Bodyguard is a huge waste of firepower as their AOE rocks. The protector bots sit back and don't heal or fire when on bodyguard. At least that was my experience with it. However when a mob focuses on me being able to click on bodyguard to last out the storm is well worth it but as a full time power it is not fully feasable at least not for me and my playstyle. It is a power that can greatly enhance MM survivability once that MM becomes a target but using it constantly isnt really feasible unless they fix how the pets in bodyguard react.
OMG my Soldier/Trap MM's Tactics acctually make sence now!
And I wont just get pwned if someone sees though Invis!