i'd sure love resists too, since BU+AIM only boosts dmg by about 150%, wheras it completely negates any def i have
dont think the devs will do that, cant have the blasters running around without 2-shotting everything
The issue with FF MMs seems less huge if you (as the Devs likely are) assume that the PvPer has teammates.
Granted, that doesn't make Bodyguard itself any more useful to you, but not all abilities are equally useful to all builds/playstyles.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
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I think Forcefields should be changed to resist damage instead of def simply bc that makes more sense. FFs should not make you more evasive to attacks they should just repel damage
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I can see it either way, but I personally think of it as defense. Remember that defense prevents the shot from even landing, which could be represented by the deflection effect from a force field. Resistance means the hit lands, but some of the damage is absorbed, e.g. a flak vest.
That thinking can also apply to many of the tanker powers: glacial and rock armor are defense because the blow never gets to your actual body, whereas the whole invulnerability set is mostly resists because the attacks are reaching your physical body. In short, high defense does not necessarily mean high agility. It simply means that something is preventing attacks from hitting the mark.
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I think Forcefields should be changed to resist damage instead of def simply bc that makes more sense. FFs should not make you more evasive to attacks they should just repel damage
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I can see it either way, but I personally think of it as defense. Remember that defense prevents the shot from even landing, which could be represented by the deflection effect from a force field. Resistance means the hit lands, but some of the damage is absorbed, e.g. a flak vest.
That thinking can also apply to many of the tanker powers: glacial and rock armor are defense because the blow never gets to your actual body, whereas the whole invulnerability set is mostly resists because the attacks are reaching your physical body. In short, high defense does not necessarily mean high agility. It simply means that something is preventing attacks from hitting the mark.
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Just to clarify: the majority of Inv's survivability to non-S/L damage comes from DEF and HP regen now. The days of Inv being mostly resists are over.
Yeah, I know. We were surprised, too.
One thing I noticed:
A Henceman in Bodyguard mode (or just defensive), won't respond agressively until an attack actually hits the MM, they ignore any that miss them. I think that should probably change so that the Bodyguards will engage as soon as anyone takes agressive action against the MM.
EDIT: I PM'ed Positron about this and he kindly replied and told me they are working on it.
Always remember, we were Heroes.
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I think Forcefields should be changed to resist damage instead of def simply bc that makes more sense. FFs should not make you more evasive to attacks they should just repel damage
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Unfortunately now that Sonic is here it's unlikely that will ever happen. That would essentially make FF and Sonic identical in terms of the defense they provide, making one or the other of them redundant.
OTOH, you can always take Sonic and say that your powers are actually force fields and not sound waves. (I created a version of my main as Sonic/Rad just to compare the two. And a Rad/Sonic Corruptor counterpart)
Personally, it makes no more sense to me that Sonic is Resistance than FF is Defense. I can see FF deflecting the attack and Sonic just slowing it down, and "dispersing" the energy, but only if you think of it that way. I'm not sure I can buy the idea of a "sonic barrier", and even if I do I'm not sure it wouldn't be every bit as impenetrable as a "force field".
In short, it's just an implementation, and I don't think the devs are going to work to hard to make it any more realistic than that. It's not about logic, it's about providing a gameplay element.
yes one time i had my ninja doing the boombox with a lvl 40's ninjas and then all of a sudden...they run off like theres a bomb on the ground oh and they were on def so if there WAS a bomb on the ground shouldn't they like protect me or tell me to run.
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yes one time i had my ninja doing the boombox with a lvl 40's ninjas and then all of a sudden...they run off like theres a bomb on the ground oh and they were on def so if there WAS a bomb on the ground shouldn't they like protect me or tell me to run.
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That goes back to the pet AI. One of the worst things about being an MM is having your pets suddenly decide to go help someone else.
Pet AI, lack of movement powers, and setup time are all things that need serious attention. Bodyguard is a step in the right direction, and could use a closer look, but I'd really rather have the AI, movement power, and setup time issues taken care of ASAP.
Suriyama
40 bots and bubbles
Justice
i wish sonic was a mm secondary :/
Lord_Jack wrote:
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I think Forcefields should be changed to resist damage instead of def simply bc that makes more sense. FFs should not make you more evasive to attacks they should just repel damage
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You already have a set that gives Resist. It's the Sonic Resonance powerset. And, think about this. A force field avoids the damage by deflecting the attacks. It deflects the attacks, it doesn't absorb the damage. 
I personally think FF masterminds should stop complaining. They chose a passive, and what I think is a rather boring secondary powerset for such a fun primary. The fact that it does not work well with the new bodygaurd feature just underscores that fact. My opinion of course.
Now if they changed the forcefield FX for masterminds to make little leprechauns with golden shields that swirled around your henchies, that would at least give the illusion that it was a cool secondary. Also, just my personal opinion... and a bit of a fantasy of mine. I'm a sucker for leprechauns.
i picked it because i was new to CoV and robots/force fields sounded cool
I picked it knowing full well it was passive - which means, as the director-of-minions, I take less aggro. Other than strong EBs, and outright AVs/GMs, I am 100% safe in PvE combat; I haven't faceplanted there due to ANYthing except simple stupidity on my own part (IOW, not running away when I should have, and/or simply not paying attention to where I was at the time).
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I personally think FF masterminds should stop complaining. They chose a passive, and what I think is a rather boring secondary powerset for such a fun primary. The fact that it does not work well with the new bodygaurd feature just underscores that fact. My opinion of course.
Now if they changed the forcefield FX for masterminds to make little leprechauns with golden shields that swirled around your henchies, that would at least give the illusion that it was a cool secondary. Also, just my personal opinion... and a bit of a fantasy of mine. I'm a sucker for leprechauns.
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Someone obviously does not grasp the full coolness of Force Fields. And, as Pax said, we chose it to safe. And a properly built */FF MM is very, very safe...until PvP. Actually, they can still be pretty safe, even then, played right. As people have said (and I like Bodyguard, but can't really argue their point): FF doesn't work with Bodyguard (and actually, neither does Sonic Resistance...), but the other MM sets do...but that's more of a powerset issue than anything else.
This sounds like precisely the sort of power that might benefit tankers: the ability to "take one for the team". Is there any plan in the works to expand this beyond Masterminds? I don't mean to suggest diluting the power by giving it to everyone, but tankers haven't seen a lot of love lately outside of fixing the AoE gauntlet bug, and this seems like an ability that would be right up their alley. Perhaps instead of a direct clone of this power, they might have a Vigilance-esque effect, wherein the lower a teammates' hitpoints get, the more damage gets transferred to the tanker and is subject to the tanker's resistance. Or, if it came over as unresisted, it would certainly encourage tankers to work hard to ensure that their teammates weren't the subjects of direct attacks, lest they themselves start suffering for their own carelessness.
Kristy
yeah but at least sonic isnt overcome by a yellow inspir
Ok, I am having some trouble here trying to grasp the concept of why */Forcefeild supposively doesn't work with Bodyguard, especially in PvP. Given the */Forcefield is a mostly defensively based set to begin with, Bodyguard would only compound this defensive capacity, something that would be exceptionally valuable in a PvP enviroment where other players are smart enough to look for and directly target the Mastermind. Also, given the reduced accuracy against other player characters in PvP, I would wonder what it is that */Forcefield mastermind is afraid of at that point, given their ability to really compound their defensive capabilities.
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Ok, I am having some trouble here trying to grasp the concept of why */Forcefeild supposively doesn't work with Bodyguard, especially in PvP. Given the */Forcefield is a mostly defensively based set to begin with, Bodyguard would only compound this defensive capacity, something that would be exceptionally valuable in a PvP enviroment where other players are smart enough to look for and directly target the Mastermind. Also, given the reduced accuracy against other player characters in PvP, I would wonder what it is that */Forcefield mastermind is afraid of at that point, given their ability to really compound their defensive capabilities.
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The problem with FF MM's is that the bodyguard function will by pass the defense of their bubbles. Any damage taken by the MM is shared to the pets without defense applied. FF has no heal to fix pets (Unless the dip into medicine, which wont help since they are interruptable). Since people ignore the pets in PvP and go directly for the MM, FF'ers are slightly gimped. Bodyguard may extend the life or a FF'er but other secondaries can do more proactively to compensate for pet damage where FF can not, all FF can do is bubble and the bodyguard damage bypasses that.
I didnt get it at first either. There is a legitmate problem, (maybe problem is too strong) powerset imbalance with the */FF and the bodyguard functionality.
FF is passive defense and bodyguard bypasses it
HaloInc
Triumph:
Heroes: Lady Halifax, Miss Kia, WhiteLotus, Agent Immolate, Lady Empathy, Sylence Fyredancer, Maiden of Fire
Villains: Innocent-Ella, Aegis-Sprite, Midnight Dragonfly
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The problem with FF MM's is that the bodyguard function will by pass the defense of their bubbles. Any damage taken by the MM is shared to the pets without defense applied. FF has no heal to fix pets (Unless the dip into medicine, which wont help since they are interruptable). Since people ignore the pets in PvP and go directly for the MM, FF'ers are slightly gimped. Bodyguard may extend the life or a FF'er but other secondaries can do more proactively to compensate for pet damage where FF can not, all FF can do is bubble and the bodyguard damage bypasses that.
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Damage bypassing the pets forcefeild defense is a NON-ISSUE if they are not being attacked in the first place! Not only that, but such damage is severly reduced because its only a share of the damage. You, the Mastermind, will be long dead before your Henchmen will while in Bodyguard mode, unless your being hammered by AoE attacks (the bane of the Mastermind's existance) or multiple attackers, in which case your out numbered to begin with.
Take Aid Other from the Medicene Pool and put and Interupt Reduction Enhancement in it, it helps tremendously in using it, and I should note that Forcefield is not the only Mastermind secondary with out a direct heal power.
I should also point out that */Forcefeild is not unique in getting defenses bypassed by Bodyguard directly to the the Henchmen. Shadowfall, Forcefeild Drone, Protector Bot Bubbles, and Manuevers all get bypassed in the same way. In fact, */Forcefield is superior to all this in that it can grant the best defense available to the Mastermind Archtype for the Mastermind, meaning fewer attacks will actually get through to hit the Mastermind and then have damaged shared to the Henchmen in Bodyguard mode.
I am not championing the FF complaint I just understand what their complaint is, and tried to summarize it cause someone asked.
BTW I do have a FF MM, but I dont plan to PvP, so it doesnt bother me so much.
HaloInc
Triumph:
Heroes: Lady Halifax, Miss Kia, WhiteLotus, Agent Immolate, Lady Empathy, Sylence Fyredancer, Maiden of Fire
Villains: Innocent-Ella, Aegis-Sprite, Midnight Dragonfly
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I picked it knowing full well it was passive - which means, as the director-of-minions, I take less aggro. Other than strong EBs, and outright AVs/GMs, I am 100% safe in PvE combat; I haven't faceplanted there due to ANYthing except simple stupidity on my own part (IOW, not running away when I should have, and/or simply not paying attention to where I was at the time).
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This has been bugging me for a bit. /FF is NOT very good at avoiding aggro, at least not if you're using the other half of the set. If you only use the Buffs in /FF, then it's not surprising that you're finding it lackluster and boring. /FF is a Buff/Crowd Control set. If you use the crowd control powers, you'll likely take more aggro, but you'll also offer considerably better protection to you and your minions. Keeping enemies disoriented and out of melee range can go a long way to improve your survivability.
What's more, very very few sets in the game have Repel protection, which means that once you have Force Bubble you'll be nearly immune to Melee attacks (with caveats naturally), which can greatly improve your survivablility. Remember that most Blasters in PvP are only _really_ dangerous if they get into melee range to finish you off with Total Focus or Thunder Strike. Scrappers and tanks are pretty much useless from range. Defenders have weak attacks anyway and most controller pet (saved those damnamble Ill trollers and Grav Trollers) are much better in melee. Granted, a Controller will most likely break though your dispersion bubble and drop your toggles, but nobody said that anybody should be a god in PvP.
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I personally think FF masterminds should stop complaining. They chose a passive, and what I think is a rather boring secondary powerset for such a fun primary. The fact that it does not work well with the new bodygaurd feature just underscores that fact. My opinion of course.
Now if they changed the forcefield FX for masterminds to make little leprechauns with golden shields that swirled around your henchies, that would at least give the illusion that it was a cool secondary. Also, just my personal opinion... and a bit of a fantasy of mine. I'm a sucker for leprechauns.
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So the fact that its a secondary you would not choose means we have no right to voice our concerns? I wish the world could revolve around me the way you seem to think it does you.
How would you, a dark miasma secondary, feel if the developers said your accuracy debuff and heal wouldn't work in any PvP zones? You'd be upset wouldn't you? That is essentially what has been done to FF's two most important powers. Your accuracy debuff and your heal are critical to dark miasma, and without them you and your pets would take FAR more damage. Well, without my bubbles my pets take far more damage as well, the difference is that while bodyguard still allows you to heal and use your accuracy debuff, it completely bypasses the protections I place on my minions.
We should stop complaining because we're FF and its our own fault we chose a passive secondary? Thats like telling someone who's car was stolen to stop complaining, its their own fault they have a car. We chose FF because we wanted the defenses. We shouldn't be penalized just because we wanted a defensive secondary.
Suriyama
40 bots and bubbles
Justice
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I am not championing the FF complaint I just understand what their complaint is, and tried to summarize it cause someone asked.
BTW I do have a FF MM, but I dont plan to PvP, so it doesnt bother me so much.
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Fair Enough. If it seemed harsh, I didn't mean is as so, but I just see it as a false complaint.
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Ok, I am having some trouble here trying to grasp the concept of why */Forcefeild supposively doesn't work with Bodyguard, especially in PvP. Given the */Forcefield is a mostly defensively based set to begin with, Bodyguard would only compound this defensive capacity, something that would be exceptionally valuable in a PvP enviroment where other players are smart enough to look for and directly target the Mastermind. Also, given the reduced accuracy against other player characters in PvP, I would wonder what it is that */Forcefield mastermind is afraid of at that point, given their ability to really compound their defensive capabilities.
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The problem is damage done to the MM is transferred to the minions directly, bypassing any defenses or resistances they have. The MM has MUCH lower defenses and resistances than his minions because he can't bubble himself.
Tranferring the damage directly so that it bypasses and ignores the bubbles means that the most important part of our secondary becomes useless in PvP. FF doesn't come with heals, debuffs, or other offensive powers. The one thing the secondary is supposed to do it protect...and that protection is being bypassed and ignored.
Keep in mind, we can't bubble ourselves!!!! Thats what people who don't have the secondary always seem to forget.
Suriyama
40 bots and bubbles
Justice
I think Forcefields should be changed to resist damage instead of def simply bc that makes more sense. FFs should not make you more evasive to attacks they should just repel damage