i agree bodyguard is an interesting addition. the issue i potentially see is one of player based 'operator usage'. the ability for a mastermind to maintain solidarity amoungst their version of the 5-6 stooges is very troublesome in pvp, and largish pve maps, depending on the target. if the aoe for bodyguard is the same as the inherent supremacy, then even dropping los from the pets becomes an issue. a use of tp foe on a mm will seperate them from the pets and render bodyguard useless, but then it just means nothing is really changed.
just my 2 inf.
Kittens give Morbo gas.
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Setting to Bodyguard
You can set any Mastermind Henchman to Bodyguard by selecting the Defensive Stance and the Follow Order. Your Henchmen must be within Supremacy range for this function to work.
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So, weird question:
I've got the pets out on bodyguard, and one of the various foes does some version of Nova. Does the damage mitigation from Bodyguard apply BEFORE the damage to pets, AFTER the damage to pets, or "undetermined"?
Before you think it sounds like a stupid question, imagine I've several battle damaged pets (with, say one hit point) and I'm low myself. ANY damage would kill them, and I need them as my "meat shield" - so, do they throw themselves on the grenade, or "other"? 
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The Bodyguard functions at the time of attack. Say that Nova did 100 damage and you have all 6 pets in Defense/Follow mode.
You take 25 damage. (2 parts of 8)
Each pet takes 12.5 Damage from Bodyguard (6 parts of 8 since each minion gets a part)
Each pet also takes 100 damage (minus resistances) from being in the AoE of the Nova attack.
The end result would be you took 25 damage and your henchmen all took 112.5 damage (not counting resistances).
(Fairly certain this is how it would work based on what Pos has stated so far)
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Kinda doesn't answer the question - if they pets only have 1 point left and they take their damage BEFORE I do, they then die and don't take a percentage of my damage. If -I- take the damage first, then they die from MY damage and don't take it on their own.
It's not a "Doooom!" question, I was just curious if they too OUR damage first, THEIR damage first, or "undetermined"
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I believe (unsubstantiated so take that how you will) that the damage will be calculated together. You and the henchmen are taking the damage at the same time due to it being an AoE attack. So you are taking your damage and parcelling it out at the same time your henchmen are taking the damage from the attack.
If it's done in pulses, that could really bite as the henchmen could be dead before the pulse of BG damage goes out. That is of course assuming that the effect stops the moment the henchman died. We've already seen that the system still lets an attack's damage go even though LOS is broken or the mob that delivered it was taken out before the attack hit.
But for a specific answer, your best bet would be to PM Positron.
Virtue: multiple characters.
CoH/V: Woot! Maybe Fun is to be had once again.
Ack! RUN! Regen is glowing mean & green!
If it reduces you, it's a nerf.
If it buffs the mobs, it's challenge.
They are not the same.
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Open your own eyes! In PvP, AoE attacks are the extreme minority. It is the single target damage that kills us, and when we share that with our pets, our bubbles do NOTHING to help.
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Right, okay .... and this is different from PVP NOW in ... precisely WHAT way, again?
NOW: Single-target damage dealt directly to the MM ignores any benefit from the MM's secondary powerset with very few exceptions (mainly, debuffs already applied to the damage-dealer) ... and when the MM is nigh-inevitably one- or two-shot, the pets die anyway.
SOON: Single-target damage dealt directly to the MM ignores any benefit from the MM's secondary powerset with very few exceptions (mainly, debuffs already applied to the damage-dealer) ... but now it is almost impossible to even THREE-shot the MM, because some of the damage is spread out among their pets.[/i]
Ao ... what exactly is the problem, again ...?
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I am surprized that some of you just dont understand his point. It is pretty clear.
Reguardless of if the mastermind has bodyguard or not, the /FF secondary has a big design flaw. It was designed for a purely PvE game. PvP was added later. It is simply not designed for PvP use, and that is not fair to any /FF user. It is just a lot more pronounced for a Mastermind then other /FF classes. What is the point of a powerset that is primarily focused on reducing the damage my pets take, when in PvP combat, all the damage is focused on me? The only thing that made /FF worthwhile in PvP was the ability to turn PFF on and off frequently, which is no longer an option to masterminds.
Even if you have bodyguard active, and the damage gets spread to the pets, even then that little bit of damage they are getting ignores the protection they are supposed to get from Forcefields. This secondary is already at a big disadvantage in PvP, this little fact is just "adding insult to injury".
There is however a simple fix for this problem. Allow the mastermind to target himself, so that he can cast his two forcefield buffs on himself. This way the MM gets to enjoy the same damage protection in PvP as he does in PvE. The difference being that PvE damage is focused on pets, while PvP damage is focused on mastermind. /FF needs to accomodate for this fact.
Wow I'm suprised that all the MM forgot about the biggest problem with this power. Follow/def
Currently as the games stands now, if your teamed(as most MM do) Your pets will leave you if a teamate gets attacked. So if you die in a mish , get rezzed, the minute you summon your minions, they will leave you automatically to join the fight.Why you asked? Cause the AI is still borked.
And so when pets are in Follow/def, they defend the entire team. I can see a bug where the pets take all the damage from everyone when the pets are within supremacy, thus killing them faster as well as possible the MM since in body guard mode, if a pet takes damage, Posi didn't say, does the MM still take some damage.
Everyone can talk about oooh how powerful MM are with this power, when all they have to do is attack one of their teamates to get the MM by themselves and kill. Anyone else see this problem. If the AI isn't fixed before or during I7 then bodyguard will be still bugged up power when it hits I7.
Don't get me wrong, itll be useful on the PVE side with ambushes and what not, but unless ur playing solo alot, its not a fun power to really have.
In short the AI will still need to be overhauled so MM don't have to always have Passive/follow when someone snipes or pulls enemy npc. I hope someone could address the potential problems this power can have, I'm glad they decided to give MM something for free, but its like giving a little boy a dress, sure its free but does he really want to wear it.
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And that's if I keep them around me, shooting their craptastic bows, and shuriken. Not sending them off to take out the threat, using their awsome melee abilities.
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You could always walk them into melee yourself. They are on Follow.
[/ QUOTE ]Hmmm, Dokunoichi stays out of melee range, poisoning her targets, while my ninja concentrate all attacks on that one target, when that one dies, I pick a target, command them to attack, poison it, and kill it. I repeat this process till my enemies are dead. I need all my ninja to be doing this, not hanging around me.
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You do realise that the pets only have to be within supremacy range for Bodyguard to work, right? Select a target , hit "attack my target", wait a second for the animations to begin, hit your "follow, defensive" button. POOF, concentrated fire and Bodyguard.
And you simply need ... well ... to be in range to hit your own minions with Alkaloid.
[/ QUOTE ]In PVP I usually stay well out of Supremacy range, with stealth activated, so they can't see me, but my pets are beating the crap out of them.
I'm only seeing this power usefull for alpha strikes, it's gonna be useless if you are attacked by multiple people. You will survive the attacks, but your pets are going to be going nuts deciding who to attack. Which is why you would need to use the attack my target command, which would drop Bodyguard. So if you want to be protected again, you would have to put it back up, which would have your pets scrambling around attacking multiple targets. Again this is if you are attacked by multiple people. I don't need that, Ninja can't kill like that. They all need to attack the same target and drop them fast.
I'm just not seeing Bodyguard working as they say it will. But we will have to see.
Come on devs, art guys, where is my Maid costume for my characters! 5 years now, its a simple request.
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Wow I'm suprised that all the MM forgot about the biggest problem with this power. Follow/def
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Currently as the games stands now, if your teamed(as most MM do) Your pets will leave you if a teamate gets attacked. So if you die in a mish , get rezzed, the minute you summon your minions, they will leave you automatically to join the fight.Why you asked? Cause the AI is still borked.
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And so when pets are in Follow/def, they defend the entire team. I can see a bug where the pets take all the damage from everyone when the pets are within supremacy, thus killing them faster as well as possible the MM since in body guard mode, if a pet takes damage, Posi didn't say, does the MM still take some damage.
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Everyone can talk about oooh how powerful MM are with this power, when all they have to do is attack one of their teamates to get the MM by themselves and kill. Anyone else see this problem. If the AI isn't fixed before or during I7 then bodyguard will be still bugged up power when it hits I7.
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Don't get me wrong, itll be useful on the PVE side with ambushes and what not, but unless ur playing solo alot, its not a fun power to really have.
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In short the AI will still need to be overhauled so MM don't have to always have Passive/follow when someone snipes or pulls enemy npc. I hope someone could address the potential problems this power can have, I'm glad they decided to give MM something for free, but its like giving a little boy a dress, sure its free but does he really want to wear it.
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Your point is mote, as the Mastermind must issue a command to break out of Bodyguard mode. While in Follow/Defensive, the default state all henchmen are summoned in, any actions the henchmen perform independently does not, infact, break Bodyguard. You must issue a command first before the Bodyguard mode is canceled other than Follow/Defensive. The only bug that might mess with this is the Social Aggro bug, where they run off to help another Mastermind's minions because they will leave Supremacy range.
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Well the only possible solution to this issue is to have the henchmen affected to have their dmg resistance be taken into account after the dmg split by BG is taken. To hit checks dont make sense since they are volunteering to take the dmg for their master.
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Actually, I would find this an acceptable change, even if it does continue to bypass my bubble protection. It may make no sense to have damage I dump onto my pets make a seperate check to see if it hits, but the pets should definately get to use their own resistances.
This would still basically circumvent nearly all of the FF secondary powers which are designed around keeping the minions from being hit, but at least it would be a small step in the right direction.
Suriyama
40 bots and bubbles
Justice
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I desperately hope for AI upgrades with I7, however, none have been announced, so I don't expect any.
Positron mentioned during beta that they'd be actively trying to get the AI to be "smarter" but I don't think even if they did some minor changes that it would warrant inclusion in any of the press releases.
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I think the MM comunity would disagree. Any AI upgrade is definately something deserving of publicity and much rejoicing.
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Open your own eyes! In PvP, AoE attacks are the extreme minority. It is the single target damage that kills us, and when we share that with our pets, our bubbles do NOTHING to help.
In the situation you describe your bubbles do nothing currently, so what exactly is the problem?
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The fact that bubbles CURRENTLY do nothing has no bearing on the problem at hand. We have been trying to get Devs to implement something that would cause heroes to have a reason to target pets first before the MM. Something along those lines would have allowed pets to use their defenses AND resistances, and would have given MMs the increased life expectancy we've been asking for. Just because players ignore our pets currently, and the bubbles don't help for squat, doesn't mean that is the way it SHOULD be!
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No, detoggling isn't being removed completely, but it is (paraphrasing) "being drastically reduced." This is a serious nerf for those of us who use forcebolt offensively....because its one of the very few offensive powers in the FF set
Seeing as how this entire bit is purely speculation I see no reason to actively argue about it. "Drastically reduced" can mean a great many things and until it hits test I'm going to resuggest not jumping to conclusoins based on an extremely vague phrase. Some powers could remain untouched while others see a removal entirely.
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That is true, however, if the MM comunity makes our thoughts, wishes, and expectations known now BEFORE I7 is even on test, we may have a chance of something being tweaked favorably while the work is still being done. Speaking out AFTER the fact will have a much lower chance of getting changes considered, and even if changes are decided on, it will be long months before they are ever implemented. Taking a PROactive rather than REactive approach is often the better way to go about things.
Suriyama
40 bots and bubbles
Justice
We have been trying to get Devs to implement something that would cause heroes to have a reason to target pets first before the MM.
To the best of my knowledge FF MMs are already the most capable of getting players to try this in the first place.
Something along those lines would have allowed pets to use their defenses AND resistances, and would have given MMs the increased life expectancy we've been asking for.
Could it also be that what you are asking for is simply too much? You may not feel that way but look at it from the game designer's point of view.
Just because players ignore our pets currently, and the bubbles don't help for squat, doesn't mean that is the way it SHOULD be!
Taking out the general so his troops will fall has been a valid tactic since...well since tacticcs were conceived.
Taking a PROactive rather than REactive approach is often the better way to go about things.
The best defense is a good offense, but if no one intends to attack you then all you've accomplished is starting a war that nobody wanted to fight in the first place.
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Well the only possible solution to this issue is to have the henchmen affected to have their dmg resistance be taken into account after the dmg split by BG is taken. To hit checks dont make sense since they are volunteering to take the dmg for their master.
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Actually, I would find this an acceptable change, even if it does continue to bypass my bubble protection. It may make no sense to have damage I dump onto my pets make a seperate check to see if it hits, but the pets should definately get to use their own resistances.
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The devs can't do that because it would be massively unfair to Ninja/ MMs.
I find it interesting that the developers give the community an interesting bonus to the mastermind archetype and rather than be pleased with it we have a thread full of doomsayers. They must be breeding like crazy! What are you people feeding them?
After the rousing success of defiance for blasters, we now introduce the body guard feature for masterminds. We hope players find it just as situational and frustrating.
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Well the only possible solution to this issue is to have the henchmen affected to have their dmg resistance be taken into account after the dmg split by BG is taken. To hit checks dont make sense since they are volunteering to take the dmg for their master.
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It really kinda depends on how you think of the force field working. You are correct that to-hit checks wouldn't make sense if you think of it as purely a dodge maneuver, but it could make sense if you think of it as a deflection of the attack upon impact with the target.
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Yes, I thought of that, but then the hit check would have to decipher a "deflection" defense opposed to a "dodge-like" defense, which would complicated the whole process altogether.
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Well the only possible solution to this issue is to have the henchmen affected to have their dmg resistance be taken into account after the dmg split by BG is taken. To hit checks dont make sense since they are volunteering to take the dmg for their master.
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Actually, I would find this an acceptable change, even if it does continue to bypass my bubble protection. It may make no sense to have damage I dump onto my pets make a seperate check to see if it hits, but the pets should definately get to use their own resistances.
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The devs can't do that because it would be massively unfair to Ninja/ MMs.
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Hehe, I have a lvl 40 Ninja/FF MM too, trust me I know how unfair it would be. Adding some slight resistances to Ninjas wouldnt be such a hard thing though to lvl the playing field.
Sweet that is a great solution! And it makes my Warshade Nova Form that much more kick @$$ on MM cause now my two aoe's will double up on the damage! woot! Nothing sorrier than a MM without pets! 
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Setting to Bodyguard
You can set any Mastermind Henchman to Bodyguard by selecting the Defensive Stance and the Follow Order. Your Henchmen must be within Supremacy range for this function to work.
Bodyguard Mode
When set to Bodyguard mode, the Mastermind and his Henchmen share damage from any attack that the Mastermind takes damage from. Each Henchman takes one Share of the damage, and the Mastermind himself takes 2 Shares. This is in addition to any damage that the Henchmen themselves might incur from Area attacks.
Example: If a Mastermind has 3 Henchmen set to Def/Fol, and he gets hit with a 100 point attack, each Henchman will take 20 points of damage, and he himself will take 40 points. (total of 100 points of damage).
Example 2: If a Mastermind has 3 Henchmen set to Def/Fol, and he gets hit with an Area Effect attack for 10 points of damage, then each Henchman will take 2 points of damage, and he himself will take 4 points. Henchmen that were also in the Area of Effect will take an additional 10 points each.
What Does This Mean?
Bodyguard will work as long as a Henchman is in Defensive Follow. This means that they will follow you around and attack back when you or they are attacked. Issuing an order of Attack my target will take them out of bodyguard mode, as will issuing any other stance or order. You can set as many of your Henchmen to bodyguard that you want. As long as the Henchman is in Defensive Follow and within Supremacy range, he is in Bodyguard mode. Being stunned will not turn off bodyguard mode.
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1st off I am coming into this thread late, forgive me if these concerns have been previously expressed.
I play a Bots MM and a Ninja MM (also have a Necro/dark but will retire that toon soon enjoy the others more.
To use BodyGuard pets need to be in Defensive stance.
My problem is I almost always have to keep my pets on Passive.
I use goto and attack target constantly to keep the kids reigned in.
I tend to focus on one target with the pets kill it then send them to next target while I use my secondary to mitigate other enemies. Occasssionally I'll break off LT's to focus on a different baddie if necessary.
Fighting together the pets are very effective in taking down a target, if I let them loose on aggressive or defense they go in all directions and do a little damge to everything but tend to be killed with lots of wounded enemies left standing coming at me.
Not to mention additional aggro pets like to collect when chasing foes.
Now this is all purely play style to compensate for the pet AI. I do like the concept of the BodyGuard function I just worry about how it will actually work in play.
Is the onset time instantanious as of the stance change? Can I keep minions on Defensive once attacked when they start running off throw them to passive follow then immediate switch back to defenseive to keep them close?
Anyone else have these concerns?
HaloInc
Triumph:
Heroes: Lady Halifax, Miss Kia, WhiteLotus, Agent Immolate, Lady Empathy, Sylence Fyredancer, Maiden of Fire
Villains: Innocent-Ella, Aegis-Sprite, Midnight Dragonfly
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Well the only possible solution to this issue is to have the henchmen affected to have their dmg resistance be taken into account after the dmg split by BG is taken. To hit checks dont make sense since they are volunteering to take the dmg for their master.
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The would be unbalanced between all of the Mastermind Primaries. The devs would be shooting themselves in the foot.
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Open your own eyes! In PvP, AoE attacks are the extreme minority. It is the single target damage that kills us, and when we share that with our pets, our bubbles do NOTHING to help.
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Right, okay .... and this is different from PVP NOW in ... precisely WHAT way, again?
NOW: Single-target damage dealt directly to the MM ignores any benefit from the MM's secondary powerset with very few exceptions (mainly, debuffs already applied to the damage-dealer) ... and when the MM is nigh-inevitably one- or two-shot, the pets die anyway.
SOON: Single-target damage dealt directly to the MM ignores any benefit from the MM's secondary powerset with very few exceptions (mainly, debuffs already applied to the damage-dealer) ... but now it is almost impossible to even THREE-shot the MM, because some of the damage is spread out among their pets.[/i]
Ao ... what exactly is the problem, again ...?
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The problem is that FF is the ONLY secondary powerset which is going to have powers that are effectvely USELESS due to the implementation of bodyguard. Other secondaries have heals, or attacks, or both, whith which they can fight back or extend the lives of their pets and themselves. FF doesn't have heals and doesn't have offensive powers. Our secondary is designed around PROTECTING our minions and other group members, but bodyguard is going to allow damage to not only BYPASS our bubbles but to ignore the resistance of our minions as well.
Sure, that is what is being done now. Heroes ignore our minions and kill us. Minions die when we do, and bubbles end up playing no role and provide no benefit. That doesn't mean that it should be that way, or that it should stay that way.
Just because thats what is happening now doesn't mean its right!
The problem SHOULD be obvious to anyone paying attention. Its not rocket science!
Suriyama
40 bots and bubbles
Justice
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Open your own eyes! In PvP, AoE attacks are the extreme minority. It is the single target damage that kills us, and when we share that with our pets, our bubbles do NOTHING to help.
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Right, okay .... and this is different from PVP NOW in ... precisely WHAT way, again?
NOW: Single-target damage dealt directly to the MM ignores any benefit from the MM's secondary powerset with very few exceptions (mainly, debuffs already applied to the damage-dealer) ... and when the MM is nigh-inevitably one- or two-shot, the pets die anyway.
SOON: Single-target damage dealt directly to the MM ignores any benefit from the MM's secondary powerset with very few exceptions (mainly, debuffs already applied to the damage-dealer) ... but now it is almost impossible to even THREE-shot the MM, because some of the damage is spread out among their pets.[/i]
Ao ... what exactly is the problem, again ...?
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I am surprized that some of you just dont understand his point. It is pretty clear.
Reguardless of if the mastermind has bodyguard or not, the /FF secondary has a big design flaw. It was designed for a purely PvE game. PvP was added later. It is simply not designed for PvP use, and that is not fair to any /FF user. It is just a lot more pronounced for a Mastermind then other /FF classes. What is the point of a powerset that is primarily focused on reducing the damage my pets take, when in PvP combat, all the damage is focused on me? The only thing that made /FF worthwhile in PvP was the ability to turn PFF on and off frequently, which is no longer an option to masterminds.
Even if you have bodyguard active, and the damage gets spread to the pets, even then that little bit of damage they are getting ignores the protection they are supposed to get from Forcefields. This secondary is already at a big disadvantage in PvP, this little fact is just "adding insult to injury".
There is however a simple fix for this problem. Allow the mastermind to target himself, so that he can cast his two forcefield buffs on himself. This way the MM gets to enjoy the same damage protection in PvP as he does in PvE. The difference being that PvE damage is focused on pets, while PvP damage is focused on mastermind. /FF needs to accomodate for this fact.
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Thank you. I've been arguing this for days now, and you seem to be the first person (at least the first who bothered posting) who can actually see my point.
Suriyama
40 bots and bubbles.
Justice
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We have been trying to get Devs to implement something that would cause heroes to have a reason to target pets first before the MM.
To the best of my knowledge FF MMs are already the most capable of getting players to try this in the first place.
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Only if we hide inside our PFF, which limits our pets by cutting off any possibility of our supporting them, even if just with supremacy and the leadership pool Believe it or not, many FF MMs (myself included) don't want to "turtle up" with PFF and be reduced to spectator status.
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Something along those lines would have allowed pets to use their defenses AND resistances, and would have given MMs the increased life expectancy we've been asking for.
Could it also be that what you are asking for is simply too much? You may not feel that way but look at it from the game designer's point of view.
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I don't think I'm asking for too much. Dark Miasma can crank of AE heals and keep not only themselves but ALL of their minions alive while they are being pounded on. FF doesn't have that option. I can't keep my minions alive indefinately with heals...I have to make them harder to hurt in the first place. Other secondaries have a mix of heals (such as poison) and attacks, or defenses (traps) and attacks, or just lots of attakcs (trick arrow) that they can use...FF doesn't have those options.
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Just because players ignore our pets currently, and the bubbles don't help for squat, doesn't mean that is the way it SHOULD be!
Taking out the general so his troops will fall has been a valid tactic since...well since tacticcs were conceived.
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Absolutely, however it would also be historically and tactically accurate to say that troops take steps to protect their general. Using your analogy, I am a general who prepares my troops for battle by providing them the best possible bodyarmor. Currently, my troops go into battle with me, but I go into battle virtually naked. People ignore my troops because they are hard to hit, and simply kill me, because as soon as I die, my troops "surrender." Under the bodyguard system my troops will leap in front of attacks in order to protect me, BUT THEY WILL TAKE OFF THEIR ARMOR BEFORE THEY DO. They will still "surrender" if I am killed. I can't heal them, and I can't help them fight back like other generals can. I want to undeerstand, why is it that when my troops leap in front of attacks to protect me, they remove their armor first????? This makes no sense!
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Taking a PROactive rather than REactive approach is often the better way to go about things.
The best defense is a good offense, but if no one intends to attack you then all you've accomplished is starting a war that nobody wanted to fight in the first place.
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What war??? I'm pointing out what I (and others) feel are inequities in the way Bodyguard is being handled, especially in light of the PFF nerf to MMs. This isn't a war, this is a discussion, or at least it would be if people would refrain from using personal attacks.
Suriyama
40 bots and bubbles
Justice
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I find it interesting that the developers give the community an interesting bonus to the mastermind archetype and rather than be pleased with it we have a thread full of doomsayers. They must be breeding like crazy! What are you people feeding them?
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If you don't have anything constructive to add to the discussion, why are you posting at all?
While FF is certainly rant-worthy, it has problems far and above the few things that you're bringing up. I mean here's a Defender primary that works as well or better for Controllers and possibly Masterminds in five out of the nine powers. In the rankings Controllers use FF at 92% efficiency just based off of numbers, and not including synergy with pets.
As far as your point about Bodyguard, well, just think of it like when the developers announced that Defenders' big advantage in PvP was that "debuffs were irresistable"; FF just tends to not intrude into their thinking too awfully much.
Just as a question, I had proposed a while ago swapping the values on Dispersion and Deflection/Insulation so that the total +DEF provided by the FFer wouldn't change, but the personal +DEF provided to the FFer would be greater. How do you think this would work for MM's?
Thanks!
That would suck a bit in team situations. Normally if the FF defender gets slept (or just stunned through stacking stuns), most of his protection stays up. If you move most of it into dispersion, you put a lot of eggs into that one basket. Toggles aren't exactly a piece of cake to keep up all of the time when you have weak/no status protection. Granted, FF isn't as bad off as Rad or Dark in that regard, but I'm still not sure I'd want a single stun to be as doomtastic as it is for Dark and Rad users.
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While FF is certainly rant-worthy, it has problems far and above the few things that you're bringing up. I mean here's a Defender primary that works as well or better for Controllers and possibly Masterminds in five out of the nine powers. In the rankings Controllers use FF at 92% efficiency just based off of numbers, and not including synergy with pets.
As far as your point about Bodyguard, well, just think of it like when the developers announced that Defenders' big advantage in PvP was that "debuffs were irresistable"; FF just tends to not intrude into their thinking too awfully much.
Just as a question, I had proposed a while ago swapping the values on Dispersion and Deflection/Insulation so that the total +DEF provided by the FFer wouldn't change, but the personal +DEF provided to the FFer would be greater. How do you think this would work for MM's?
Thanks!
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I would like to see something like that done. As long as the totals are the same for the minions we bubble, and our group members, it shouldn't imbalance anything. Our personal defenses are so low now that any help would be a godsend. Lets face it, in PvE, our bubbles do just fine, because we're not the target, our friends/minions are. Its PvP when we run into problems, because we CAN"T bubble ourselves, and nobody targets our minions. Even our friends are targeted AFTER we are killed, because we are the fastest and easiest kill (although bodyguard may change that). My only problem with the bodyguard as it has been described is the complete disreguard for protections given by my secondary. I don't see why it should SO imbalance MMs with a FF secondary if our minions still get their defenses even against damage transferred to them from us....After all, its not as if we can chase people...pets get left behind, so getting away is fairly easy. So what if our pets are harder to kill than those of the other MM secondaries. THEY get more offense, heals, or both...while we get more defense. They can kill faster, we have more life expectancy. Sounds balanced to me.
Suriyama
40 bots and bubbles
Justice
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Open your own eyes! In PvP, AoE attacks are the extreme minority. It is the single target damage that kills us, and when we share that with our pets, our bubbles do NOTHING to help.
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Right, okay .... and this is different from PVP NOW in ... precisely WHAT way, again?
NOW: Single-target damage dealt directly to the MM ignores any benefit from the MM's secondary powerset with very few exceptions (mainly, debuffs already applied to the damage-dealer) ... and when the MM is nigh-inevitably one- or two-shot, the pets die anyway.
SOON: Single-target damage dealt directly to the MM ignores any benefit from the MM's secondary powerset with very few exceptions (mainly, debuffs already applied to the damage-dealer) ... but now it is almost impossible to even THREE-shot the MM, because some of the damage is spread out among their pets.[/i]
Ao ... what exactly is the problem, again ...?