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A PvP fix for MMs wouldn't be that hard to encode:
1. Pets get the travel power of the MM and use it when you do, and keep up with you perfectly.
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I do believe Robots have Super Jump? I feel that it'd be best if some sets had certain advantages, like this, so that they'd have more worth in certain areas than others.
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2. TP Foe brings the MM and his pets, and the specific target (i.e. the MM, is replaced with a random pet)
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I disagree with this, as this negates the usefulness of TP Foe.
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3. Placate, dammit, placate! Let the MM placate his enemy, or have the pets taunt the enemy they attack.
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Ninjas. I do believe there is a placate power? That's the reason to get Ninja.
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4. Set a mode so the MM becomes indistinguishable from one of his pets. If you can't tell who is the MM and who is the henchman, the MM can live that much longer.
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I kind of like this idea, but it doesn't make any sense seeing as you would obviously see who gives the orders(Realistically), and you're also an evil Mastermind. They don't cower, they stand there, bark orders and laugh. They also pet cats. I like cats. I'd recommend just making your character look like the pets ahead of time if you want to look like them.
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5. Make the pets a threat. Make the henchmen damage actually meaningful in PvP!
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Uh..it does?
On my 22 MM in Sirens Call I took a Tank down to 50% hp with lethal damage. LETHAL damage.
On a TANK.
Who had toggles up and wasn't detoggled.
Without Commando.
Thank you, good night.
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Personally, I think there was a much better way to deal with this Mastermind PvP problem, so I think I'll post it and see what everyone thinks.
What if, instead of dying the second their mastermind bites it, the henchmen continued fighting? What if they doggedly chased the person who killed their leader until either he/she or they themselves are dead?
This would change the dynamic. Suddenly the hero would have to make the tactical decision "Is that attackless Mastermind really my primary target?" I think this would give MMs higher survivability because, most of the time, the enemy would naturally come to the conclusion that the top tier pet is the primary target and the MM himself, along with his lower tier minions, is more the mop-up material instead
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No, this wouldn't help. The problem is that MM pets lack movement powers, which means that anyone who kills the MM and runs is going to get away. Even if the pets do follow him, they will draw all sorts of aggro from NPCs and will be killed, thus removing any threat.
Having minions survive the MM is definately not the answer. What we need, what we've been begging for, is a way to convince players they need to kill our minions (at least some of them) BEFORE they kill us.
If there were a 20% chance per minion in supremacy range (even if they were set for bodyguard, such as it is now) for any attack aimed at the MM to hit a random pet instead, THEN players would find it necessary to target specific pets rather than the MM.
5-6 pets one of them automatically takes the hit
4 pets 80% chance
3 pets 60% chance
2 pets 40% chance
1 pet 20% chance
Doing this would encourage players to take down specific pets, rather than allowing damage to be randomly dealt to whatever pet jumps in the way. It would also still allow the pets to use their defenses and resistances against the attack (which the current setup doesn't do....it is currently easier to kill minions by targeting the MM who is easier to hit, and simultaneously bypasses all resistances the pets may have.
We want a reason for our PETS to have to be targeted....NOT US. All that bodyguard in its current implementation will do is insure that WE are the targets, and never our pets....THAT is the problem....that, and the fact that FF users can't help protect their minions under the new system. This just made FF pretty worthless.....and made Dark Miasma very powerful due to its AE heal.
Suriyama
40 bots and bubbles
Justice
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What if they added defiance to Materminds [only works in offisive mode]? The more the boss[MM] takes damage the better the supremacy bonus gets to the pets? As for the MM dying and leaving the pets standing? I'm all for it. just get the pets -70 % Acc/dmg/defense since the morale is quite low. Give the team incentive to rez the fallen MM!!
ArchRex Dojhrom x ?
* Sidus Loricatus: B-NRG2, S-BS/Reg, T-Fire/Ice, MM-Bots/FF, St-NRG2, Dom-Psi/NRG, Cor-Son/Traps, Cor-Ice/Kin, Ctrl-Fire/Kin, PB-LB/LA
* Arachnos Loricatus: Soldier, Widow
* Praetoria Loricatus: B-DP/Dev, Cor-Elec/Elec
no give us the nemesis version of vengeance when we die, but let pets live 
that would RULE!!
the robot superjump is only vertical, not horizontal, and it's only on the tier 1 guys, so it's worthless
tp foe is too useful already, and it doesnt even have a prereqresite power to get to it
the middle-level ninjas have their own placate (which they cast at random, due to the AI), which actually puts the MM in more danger, since that's 2 less targets for enemies
it's pretty hard to make my guy look like his robots, i have to use my imagination, and my name still shows up to heroes as a big orange blurb of text
how long did the tank stand there afk? 2 minutes?
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how long did the tank stand there afk? 2 minutes?
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The fight was about ten seconds long.
Blaster nailed me in the end. Darn Blasters 
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Dr. Corvus, I like the way you crunched the numbers to show the usefulness of Bodyguard.
Personally, my problem with Bodyguard is the fact that it bypasses my entire secondary line. I am a FF secondary.
In PvP, why should any hero target my pets?
Yes, bodyguard will extend my life expectancy, but it does so at the cost of my entire secondary.
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True, in PvP some secondaries won't be completely useful. But this is no different than without BG. BG or not, it would be silly to not use powers like Dispersion Bubble or Personal Force Field or Force Bolt in PvP. Yes, bubbling the pets isn't a priority in PvP now, but /FF isn't a complete write-off, not by a long shot.
Besides, you should be happy about not having to bubble the pets, that's less down-time in the hospitals before getting back into the fight.
I got bored and broke out Excel so.. lets look at some numbers in PvP zones.
The basic math for this is as follows:
Damage Divisor = # of pets + 2 (MM gets 2 "shares")
MM Damage taken = (Dam/Div)*2
Pet Damage taken = (Dam/Div) + AoE damage
I gathered HP # on all pets in the PvP zones on my lvl 40 Bot/trap MM. The hit points on the other primaries my be different (never checked).
So.. lets look at some worst case scenarios. By that I mean no heals, no misses etc.
We will look at single target damage first. In this case, all pets will outlive the MM in bodygaurd mode.
Single target 1 pet bodygaurd
Bloody Bay = 660.3 pts
Sirens Call = 820.2 pts
Warburg = 1048.5 pts
Single target 2 pets
Bloody Bay = 880.4 pts
Sirens Call = 1093.6
Warburg = 1397.4
Single target all pets (5 in BB, 6 in others)
Bloody Bay = 1540.7
Sirens Call = 2187.2
Warburg = 2794.8
Question for everyone: Can an MM be one shot now?
On to AoE damage. Note this assumes all shots hit all pets with no chance to heal in between. It also does not take into account any resistance the pets may have. Also note, the MM will outlive the pets in this case.
AoE has a lot of permutations I could go through (but won't). I am only going to post how much damage it takes to drop all bots with all in BG mode.
BB takes 2 AoE shots to drop pets
First shot of 249.38 will drop T1s
Second shot of 92 will drop T2
MM will have 322.95 hp left
SC takes 3 AoE shots to drop all pets
First shot of 324.44 will drop T1
Second shot of 116.67 will drop T2
Third shot of 112.5 will drop T3
MM will have 344.02 HPs left
WB takes 3 AoE shots to drop all pets
First shot of 426.67 will drop T1
Second shot of 145.83 will drop T2
Third shot of 138.75 will drop T3
MM will have 441.20 hp left
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Dr. Corvus, I like the way you crunched the numbers to show the usefulness of Bodyguard.
Personally, my problem with Bodyguard is the fact that it bypasses my entire secondary line. I am a FF secondary. I put bubbles on my minions every 4 minutes to extend their lives and make them more durable. Bodyguard, if implemented as described, will have all of the damage I pass to my minions bypass the bubbles completely! What good is my secondary now?
In PvP, why should any hero target my pets? They are harder to hit than I am, and have more resistance. Now, heroes can pump damage into me, and if I don't have bodyguard set, fine...I die just as fast as I always have (faster because now I can't fade in and out of PFF). If I do have bodyguard set, they can kill my pets by attacking me, and they will kill them FASTER and EASIER than if they attacked them directly. My set doesn't come with a heal, like Dark Miasma, my set depends on PROTECTING my minions and making them harder to kill. All bodyguard does is make my minions EASIER to kill.
I guess if you want to PvP post I7 as an MM, you better have Dark Miasma as your secondary, because FF is going to be pretty worthless.
Yes, bodyguard will extend my life expectancy, but it does so at the cost of my entire secondary.
Suriyama
40 bots and bubbles
Justice
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In PvP, what happens to you now? Presumably, your enemies just ignore your pets and Build Up+Snipe You, or whatever.
Now, if you've got your pets on Defensive/Follow, you're effectively being given up to 75% more HP, drawn from your pets.
Yes, it doesn't really bring your secondary into play, but that's not really different than before, right? Your pets die when you die, and in my experience, it's faster to kill the MM (unless using PFF), and ignore the pets than it is to target the pets.
Is your complaint that bodyguarding won't do anything, or that it won't do enough?
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It sounds like he's upset b/c FF isnt the best 2ndary anymore, lol.
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A PvP fix for MMs wouldn't be that hard to encode:
1. Pets get the travel power of the MM and use it when you do, and keep up with you perfectly.
I do believe Robots have Super Jump? I feel that it'd be best if some sets had certain advantages, like this, so that they'd have more worth in certain areas than others.
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The tier 1 bots have super LEAP, which is very different than the player power, superjump. They can't keep up with you.
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2. TP Foe brings the MM and his pets, and the specific target (i.e. the MM, is replaced with a random pet)
I disagree with this, as this negates the usefulness of TP Foe.
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A MMs pets ARE his powers. If you use tp foe on a tank or blaster, do their powers get left behind? A MM's powers should not be left behind by using tp foe on him.
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3. Placate, dammit, placate! Let the MM placate his enemy, or have the pets taunt the enemy they attack.
Ninjas. I do believe there is a placate power? That's the reason to get Ninja.
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The 2nd tier of ninja henchmen get placate fo themselves. Thus, they remove themselves fom the enemy's aggro list. I am referring to having the MM be able to placate an opponent, thus makign the opponent have to target something else - like a henchman.
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4. Set a mode so the MM becomes indistinguishable from one of his pets. If you can't tell who is the MM and who is the henchman, the MM can live that much longer.
I kind of like this idea, but it doesn't make any sense seeing as you would obviously see who gives the orders(Realistically), and you're also an evil Mastermind. They don't cower, they stand there, bark orders and laugh. They also pet cats. I like cats. I'd recommend just making your character look like the pets ahead of time if you want to look like them.
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Ever heard of Doctor Doom? He makes hordes of robots that look just like him. He then has you talk to one that is obviously giving orders and such, while he is hidden amongst his cadre. This would be no different, and purely optional.
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5. Make the pets a threat. Make the henchmen damage actually meaningful in PvP!
Uh..it does?
On my 22 MM in Sirens Call I took a Tank down to 50% hp with lethal damage. LETHAL damage.
On a TANK.
Who had toggles up and wasn't detoggled.
Without Commando.
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I'm sorry, I don't buy it. Why didn't the tank just take you out in a few hits? Were you using fear on him, were you using inspirations? I have never been able to take out a melee AT in a stand-up fight unless I feared them or juiced my henchmen up on insp's. Were you kiting him?
Merc/Poison is a very effective setup. I anticipate that Bot/Poison would be even better.
With Merc/Poison I've been able to take out Scrappers and Tanks. Blasters, however, time and again kick my butt and I have yet to kill one.
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2. TP Foe brings the MM and his pets, and the specific target (i.e. the MM, is replaced with a random pet)
I disagree with this, as this negates the usefulness of TP Foe.
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A MMs pets ARE his powers. If you use tp foe on a tank or blaster, do their powers get left behind? A MM's powers should not be left behind by using tp foe on him.
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Could not have said it better myself. With or without bodyguard, this is a major issue that needs to be addressed.
I'm playing a Ninja/Trick Arrow build. I dont see myself or any other Melee based MM using the "bodyguard" feature much. Partly because I keep my Pets in PASSIVE/Attack My Target or PASSIVE/Follow Me, and AGGRESSIVE/GOTO the majority of the time. The only time they are ever in Defensive is when I summon them and thats it.
Why not give the melee based MM some sort of "bodyguard" feature while our Pets are away from us. Its that or increase the melee based MM's HP, the Pet's DPS, or some sort of new Defensive power in our 2nd powersets.
Im sure someone has already mentioned it... but how will the AI for the PET be handled in the case of being attacked in Defensive/Follow Me mode?
Will the PET run up and get into Melee range or just turn and shoot the attacker? I'm guessing that they'll turn and shoot: if that's the case, could the sucky arrows/darts that the ninjas are throwing out do some kind of 95% hit and stun/slow/disorient/(any debuff in general).
Because knowing that my ninja is bodyguarding his master with those same arrows that do very little damage as when you tell them to attack isnt at all comforting .
My 50s: Zenshin (stkr), TrueBluePhoenix (dom), Zen'th (blstr), Foul-Play (blstr), Zojitzu (scrpr), ZyoXinZhou (scrpr), Protonic Avenger (def)
Living on Virtue, Vacationing on Justice, Visiting Pinnacle, Getting started on Victory & Infinity
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2. TP Foe brings the MM and his pets, and the specific target (i.e. the MM, is replaced with a random pet)
I disagree with this, as this negates the usefulness of TP Foe.
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A MMs pets ARE his powers. If you use tp foe on a tank or blaster, do their powers get left behind? A MM's powers should not be left behind by using tp foe on him.
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Could not have said it better myself. With or without bodyguard, this is a major issue that needs to be addressed.
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I'm levelling a mastermind now (merc/traps, lvl 30) and I absolutely disagree with this. Masterminds are the easiest, safest class to level, and it's because they can hide behind their pets. That split of powers is a major source of strength for them, so I have no problem with it also being a weakness.
It's a trade-off that I'm fine with.
-jeff
I don't mean to get under anybody's skin with this comment, but I haven't seen it made and I think it needs to be said...
To be perfectly clear, what is the common Mastermind doing while his pets are trying to duke it out with the Hero?
If he's standing still like a statue being an immobile toggle platform, he is naturally going to be killed (and really should be killed) rather quickly, bodyguard power or no...
I'd like to point out that defenders haven't been complaining (or at least I don't see them complaining) about being the initial squishy target in group PvP. Why? Because they're used to being more active in their defense. But Masterminds aren't, because the PvE game has largely taught us that pets will take aggro reliably and we can just stand around. Not so in PvP.
People talk alot about the setup time for the pets. What nobody seems to mention is the setup time for the battle! Stalkers stalk their prey, blasters seek out their advantageous positions, defenders assemble their posse, why aren't masterminds planning ahead of time? Isn't the Mastermind's job is to be tactical where his boneheaded minions cannot be? Terrain usage, clever maneuvering, and active application of the secondary set powers would seem to allieviate alot of the problems we're complaining about...
And yes, a mastermind ambushed with an explosive fireball or a BU snipe is going to fall quickly. But most squishies do. Aren't most people SUPPOSED to die quickly in an ambush situation? Otherwise what would be the point of ambushing? Instead of complaining about BG, wouldn't our time be better served plotting some nasty PvP strategies? Seems to me if you want to be able to survive a massive onslaught, you roll a tanker or a brute. Least, I rolled a Mastermind because I wanted to, well, be the brains not the muscle...
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2. TP Foe brings the MM and his pets, and the specific target (i.e. the MM, is replaced with a random pet)
I disagree with this, as this negates the usefulness of TP Foe.
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A MMs pets ARE his powers. If you use tp foe on a tank or blaster, do their powers get left behind? A MM's powers should not be left behind by using tp foe on him.
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Could not have said it better myself. With or without bodyguard, this is a major issue that needs to be addressed.
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I'm levelling a mastermind now (merc/traps, lvl 30) and I absolutely disagree with this. Masterminds are the easiest, safest class to level, and it's because they can hide behind their pets. That split of powers is a major source of strength for them, so I have no problem with it also being a weakness.
It's a trade-off that I'm fine with.
-jeff
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Im not sure if that is a fair trade off as seeing that MMs have low hp. It makes more sense to have the MM an inherit -TP much like the PVE bosses. If you can't TP a boss of equal lvl or a lvl below yourself in PVE play how can it be so in PVP play.
MMs should have Boss lvl protection from TP Foe. Or will the Dev's implement that into the bodyguard feature.
My 50s: Zenshin (stkr), TrueBluePhoenix (dom), Zen'th (blstr), Foul-Play (blstr), Zojitzu (scrpr), ZyoXinZhou (scrpr), Protonic Avenger (def)
Living on Virtue, Vacationing on Justice, Visiting Pinnacle, Getting started on Victory & Infinity
I'm fine with this entire Bodyguard thing.
But what I really want is a way to tell the henches to stay ranged or go melee, cause I would love to have my jounin go melee instead of my puny little genins. Is there a way to do that?
To right the countless wrongs of our day, we shine the light of true redemption, that this place may become as paradise. What a wonderful world such would be....
I'm sorry what was that, I couldn't hear you over my TRAGIC PAST!!
with my bot/ff, the only thing i can do is stand in the middle of my guys and spam force bolt
dispersion bubble and supremacy need me to be close to my pets, and i dont have any cool powers that /dark or /poison or /traps do, or hell even /arrow
whoever said /ff is the best secondary, lol. i'd say it's barely above trick arrow in effectiveness, the bubbles dont even add very much defense, and we dont get any buffs/debuffs/heals, and our one "attack" does minimal damage and only knocks someone back a little bit
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I'm playing a Ninja/Trick Arrow build. I dont see myself or any other Melee based MM using the "bodyguard" feature much. Partly because I keep my Pets in PASSIVE/Attack My Target or PASSIVE/Follow Me, and AGGRESSIVE/GOTO the majority of the time. The only time they are ever in Defensive is when I summon them and thats it.
Why not give the melee based MM some sort of "bodyguard" feature while our Pets are away from us. Its that or increase the melee based MM's HP, the Pet's DPS, or some sort of new Defensive power in our 2nd powersets.
Im sure someone has already mentioned it... but how will the AI for the PET be handled in the case of being attacked in Defensive/Follow Me mode?
Will the PET run up and get into Melee range or just turn and shoot the attacker? I'm guessing that they'll turn and shoot: if that's the case, could the sucky arrows/darts that the ninjas are throwing out do some kind of 95% hit and stun/slow/disorient/(any debuff in general).
Because knowing that my ninja is bodyguarding his master with those same arrows that do very little damage as when you tell them to attack isnt at all comforting .
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Man after all of the time and people still don't know the behaviour of their henchmen? Well let me spell it out for people. Pet's have a LEASH on them. This leach limited how far they will move from a certain point. If the pets go beyond the leash length, they will returned to the limits of the leash. Pet's will everything that they can do so tay within the limits set by the leash.
OK the next question should naturally be what is the "certain point" I spoke of. Let's call it the anchor point to be more accurate. The anchor point is determined by the command you give the pet. When you issue a 'goto' command, the anchor point becomes whereever you potitioned the targeting circles. When you issues a 'stay' command, their anchor point becomes the exact location the henchman/pet is currently standing. When you issue an 'attack my target' command, the anchor point become the foe that you had targetted. And when you your issues a 'follow' command the anchor point become you and and you location. If you move or the 'attack my target' target moves the anchor point moves as well.
Now remember pets can and will move within the distance of their leash. Just because you henchmen on Bodyguard, they will not just stand around doing nothing. And any hechman in defense mode will aggro on any foe that damages you or any of you other henchmen. The key is that you need to be close enough so your Bodyguards can attack (remember the leash.)
Bodyguard is a very good thing for Mastermind in PvP and PvE. And think on this. Bodyguard gives effectively you up to 75% damage resistance to ANY and ALL damage in the game. No other AT in the game can do that. Not Scrapper, Brutes, Stalker or Tankers. Not even Khedian Dwarves or an Warshade capped out with Eclipsed which is one of the best defense powers in the game. The AT with the least Health in the game could potentially tank the Hamidon in place of a Tanker. That is mind boggling to me. How about you?
I''m amazed that Masterminds are jumping for joy over thing.
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Question for everyone: Can an MM be one shot now?
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Technically, noone will be able to be one-shotted anymore, since they are putting the one-shot protection in in I7.
Always remember, we were Heroes.
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I'm levelling a mastermind now (merc/traps, lvl 30) and I absolutely disagree with this. Masterminds are the easiest, safest class to level, and it's because they can hide behind their pets. That split of powers is a major source of strength for them, so I have no problem with it also being a weakness.
It's a trade-off that I'm fine with.
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I am glad you are so accepting of the PvP tradeoff MMs have to deal with. I am not. No other class gets their effectiveness cut in half or more by having tp foe used on them. No other class essentially loses their primary by being tp'd away.
Yes, their are some lazy MM's that hide behind their pets, but they should not be conisdered the norm, nor should other MMs suffer for their play style. When I can tp fo e a tanker and have his armors left behind, I'll stop supporting this notion that pets should travel w/ the MM...
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2. TP Foe brings the MM and his pets, and the specific target (i.e. the MM, is replaced with a random pet)
I disagree with this, as this negates the usefulness of TP Foe.
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A MMs pets ARE his powers. If you use tp foe on a tank or blaster, do their powers get left behind? A MM's powers should not be left behind by using tp foe on him.
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Could not have said it better myself. With or without bodyguard, this is a major issue that needs to be addressed.
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I'm levelling a mastermind now (merc/traps, lvl 30) and I absolutely disagree with this. Masterminds are the easiest, safest class to level, and it's because they can hide behind their pets. That split of powers is a major source of strength for them, so I have no problem with it also being a weakness.
It's a trade-off that I'm fine with.
-jeff
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Every AT has an advantage over others in safety, MMs safety comes from hiding behind pets, other ATS like the controller, can lock down spawns so they take no damage, tanks have shields and can be just as safe as an MM is slotted well, and Blasters funtion in safety by obliterating spawns before they can respond.
Maybe it's that I have previous pre-ED experience where my tankers could just sit in 10+ purple mobs in no danger, and my Blasters could look at a spawn funny and it would keel over, maybe it's that I play Ninjas, the gimpiest of all the MM sets, but I don't see the power behind MMs that make up for the feeling of being stuck in a permanent PuG as a pure defender. I played a Brute to 40, and MMs really have almost nothing on the power of a Brute with full fury going ape-[censored] in a spawn, my brute can kill 3+ spawns and be milling in the fourth in the time it takes my MM to clear two spawns, plus my brute doesn't have to wait 3+ minutes at the start of a mission before plowing through it (unless I'm on a team with an MM). My level 23 Dom can solo with only slightly less safety then my MM, and goes at about the same speed due to not having to set up at the start of a mission.
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I don't mean to get under anybody's skin with this comment, but I haven't seen it made and I think it needs to be said...
To be perfectly clear, what is the common Mastermind doing while his pets are trying to duke it out with the Hero?
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Well, that entirely depends upon what secondary pool the mastermind has. Each is extremely different. I am not an expert on all of them, so I will not even try to talk about detailed PvP battle tactics. Reguardless, none of them are that terribly involved. You use a few key powers here and there while your pets fight, and hope it turns the tide of battle in your favor. That pretty much sums it up.
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If he's standing still like a statue being an immobile toggle platform, he is naturally going to be killed (and really should be killed) rather quickly, bodyguard power or no...
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I am not sure what it is you are suggesting. Do you expect us to run around like crazy? Jump around to avoid gunfire? This isnt a first person shooter, a moving target is not harder to hit. You expect the MM to "get the high ground" or some other tactical position? What function would that serve in this game? Do you expect the MM to hide behind cover? That may prevent an enemy from shooting at us for a moment, but it would also neutralize our aura powers like supremicy and leadership.
To answer your first question, I do not know what the "common" mastermind does in PvP, but I have a pretty good idea of what we CAN do, and its not as much as you seem to think. Playing a MM does get pretty fancy sometimes, but it still comes down to the pets doing the real work of battle, and it is far too easy for enemies to neutralize or bypass those pets.
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2. TP Foe brings the MM and his pets, and the specific target (i.e. the MM, is replaced with a random pet)
I disagree with this, as this negates the usefulness of TP Foe.
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A MMs pets ARE his powers. If you use tp foe on a tank or blaster, do their powers get left behind? A MM's powers should not be left behind by using tp foe on him.
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Could not have said it better myself. With or without bodyguard, this is a major issue that needs to be addressed.
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Do you realise what kind of precedent that sets? Should my Controller automatically bring Spectral Terror, Phantasm, Decoy Phantasm, and my Phantom Army with me if I'm TPed?
What about a Fire Tank? Should Burn come with him when teleported? Dark Servant? Rain of Fire?
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Do you realise what kind of precedent that sets? Should my Controller automatically bring Spectral Terror, Phantasm, Decoy Phantasm, and my Phantom Army with me if I'm TPed?
What about a Fire Tank? Should Burn come with him when teleported? Dark Servant? Rain of Fire?
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Do those powers move with you when you go somewhere else? Are those powers the entire crux of your powerset? With the exception of the 3 personal attacks, the MM is physically unable to do anything else with his primary if the pets aren't there. Can the same be said for the powersets you mentioned?
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Dr. Corvus, I like the way you crunched the numbers to show the usefulness of Bodyguard.
Personally, my problem with Bodyguard is the fact that it bypasses my entire secondary line. I am a FF secondary. I put bubbles on my minions every 4 minutes to extend their lives and make them more durable. Bodyguard, if implemented as described, will have all of the damage I pass to my minions bypass the bubbles completely! What good is my secondary now?
In PvP, why should any hero target my pets? They are harder to hit than I am, and have more resistance. Now, heroes can pump damage into me, and if I don't have bodyguard set, fine...I die just as fast as I always have (faster because now I can't fade in and out of PFF). If I do have bodyguard set, they can kill my pets by attacking me, and they will kill them FASTER and EASIER than if they attacked them directly. My set doesn't come with a heal, like Dark Miasma, my set depends on PROTECTING my minions and making them harder to kill. All bodyguard does is make my minions EASIER to kill.
I guess if you want to PvP post I7 as an MM, you better have Dark Miasma as your secondary, because FF is going to be pretty worthless.
Yes, bodyguard will extend my life expectancy, but it does so at the cost of my entire secondary.
Suriyama
40 bots and bubbles
Justice
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In PvP, what happens to you now? Presumably, your enemies just ignore your pets and Build Up+Snipe You, or whatever.
Now, if you've got your pets on Defensive/Follow, you're effectively being given up to 75% more HP, drawn from your pets.
Yes, it doesn't really bring your secondary into play, but that's not really different than before, right? Your pets die when you die, and in my experience, it's faster to kill the MM (unless using PFF), and ignore the pets than it is to target the pets.
Is your complaint that bodyguarding won't do anything, or that it won't do enough?