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Setting to Bodyguard
You can set any Mastermind Henchman to Bodyguard by selecting the Defensive Stance and the Follow Order. Your Henchmen must be within Supremacy range for this function to work.
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So, weird question:
I've got the pets out on bodyguard, and one of the various foes does some version of Nova. Does the damage mitigation from Bodyguard apply BEFORE the damage to pets, AFTER the damage to pets, or "undetermined"?
Before you think it sounds like a stupid question, imagine I've several battle damaged pets (with, say one hit point) and I'm low myself. ANY damage would kill them, and I need them as my "meat shield" - so, do they throw themselves on the grenade, or "other"? 
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The Bodyguard functions at the time of attack. Say that Nova did 100 damage and you have all 6 pets in Defense/Follow mode.
You take 25 damage. (2 parts of 8)
Each pet takes 12.5 Damage from Bodyguard (6 parts of 8 since each minion gets a part)
Each pet also takes 100 damage (minus resistances) from being in the AoE of the Nova attack.
The end result would be you took 25 damage and your henchmen all took 112.5 damage (not counting resistances).
(Fairly certain this is how it would work based on what Pos has stated so far)
Virtue: multiple characters.
CoH/V: Woot! Maybe Fun is to be had once again.
Ack! RUN! Regen is glowing mean & green!
If it reduces you, it's a nerf.
If it buffs the mobs, it's challenge.
They are not the same.
If a Mastermind gets hit for 100 and has 5 Henchmen set to Def/Follow exactly how much damage is done?
Also, is there a "Retards guide to figuring out the damage"?
When I first heard about Bodyguard I rolled a new MM since they were getting a "fix", but now after reading what it is...he's getting deleted 
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When I first heard about Bodyguard I rolled a new MM since they were getting a "fix", but now after reading what it is...he's getting deleted
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That's your choice...and I think(After looking more thoroughly at stuff) that I understand how to figure it out.
Kind of use a percentage system? The Mastermind counts for 2 and each pet counts for 1. So the Mastermind will always be 2 out of ?? in terms of damage received.
Then use the ?? in some fashion to figure it all out.
Like lets say they have two pets.
Mastermind receives 2 of 4 in terms of damage.
Overall out of 100 that'd be 1/2, or rather 50% thus equalling 50. Each pet would get 25.
So if it's 7 then it'd be 2/7, or rather .28(With extra numbers afterward).
Thus 28/29 damage, while each pet would get hit for 14.
Very interesting.
Another question lets say you take 5 damage per tick ie the Pain crystals which henchmen congregate around until they die.
You take 2/8s of the damage and each minion takes 1/8th so does this round up to 2 for you and 1 for each of your Henchmen?
Same theory for any burn type patch dot how does Bodyguard work under low damage, per second attacks?
Like say you take 2 points per second dots?
Does the damage not carry over or is it rounded up increasing the average damage done to me and my henchmen?
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Another question lets say you take 5 damage per tick ie the Pain crystals which henchmen congregate around until they die.
You take 2/8s of the damage and each minion takes 1/8th so does this round up to 2 for you and 1 for each of your Henchmen?
Same theory for any burn type patch dot how does Bodyguard work under low damage, per second attacks?
Like say you take 2 points per second dots?
Does the damage not carry over or is it rounded up increasing the average damage done to me and my henchmen?
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The game carries out damage to two places to the right of the decimal point, but I would guess that any damage points after that would be rounded up. So for example you could take 145.56 points of damage from some attack or if you attack something you could do 98.45 points of damage. Can't remember how healing works but I think it only does whole numbers.
So in your example above for the 5dmg a tic, you would take (5 divided by 8(Assuming you have 6 pets out)) 1.25 points of damage per tic and your henchmen (assuming they were all in the field with you) would take 5.63 damage each and would only take 0.63 points of damage if they were not in the field with you.
For the one where you take 2 points a tic, you would take 0.5 points of damage per tic and your pets, assuming they are in the same burn patch (By some miracle of physics) would take 2.25 points of damage per tic. If your pets were not in the patch they would take a massive 0.25 points of damage per tic.
Neither of those examples take any type of damage resistance into account, just some pure numbers and how it would split the damage.
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So as a Robot/FF mastermind, I had to have a 2 min timer on PFF...WHY?
Please explain to me why it is that the damage I take goes to my minions and IGNORES their resistances and defenses! They should still get a chance to apply their own resistances. Lets assume it automatically hits, because they are leaping in front of the attack or some such, so they don't get their defense...ok.....why don't their RESISTANCES apply?????
I took forcefield so I could help DEFEND my minions...now I'm happy they can help defend me, but I'm not at all happy about the way all the bubbles that I take the time to renew every 4 minutes ARE IGNORED!
Why should any hero in PvP ever target a robot? They're harder to hit than I am, and they would get to apply their resistances to the damage. NOW, the heroes can just attack me directly. I'm MUCH easier to hit, I have FAR fewer resistances, and the damage will get transferred to the minions anyway!
We wanted a reason for the heroes to have to kill our minions. You just gave a solid reason for them to NEVER target them.
Sure, this is better than nothing...but it sure wasn't very well thought out. This may be a nice boost for PvE (which we didn't need a boost for) but it will be of little help in PvP which was where we were hurting.
Suriyama
40 bots and bubbles
Justice
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Your using you a gut guesstimate of how you think things will turn out. I've learn not to trust my initial gut guesstimates in certain areas. Math is one of them. I need to work through the numbers before I make a judgement. I think you need to as well. Let's make it very apparent of how good a thing this really is for Masterminds.
2000 pts of damage on you, all 6 pets in Bodyguard mode.
Total parts = 8 (2 parts for you and 1 part for each henchman)
For for you 2000 * (2 / 8) = 500 pts
OUCH! But at level 40, you are still on your feet.
For you henchies
2000 * ( 1 / 8) = 250 pts
Most vulnerable is Tier 1 pet. They have 505 Health at level 40. Tier 1 pet are at almost 1/2 Health. But they are still up. Your higher tier pets are in even better shape.
Now let's look at the results. You just to an attack of a magnitude that only an Arch-Villain/Hero can throw. You are hurt pretty bad, but you are still on your feet. You pets are in rough shape but still on their feet. And they are now responding to the damage in kind. And you think this is a bad thing?
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Most MMs have been asking for something to help us in PvP situations, NOT PvE. We were originally told that the boost for MMs would be a PvP buff, which would help us also in PvE. I do just fine in PvE even without bodyguard, because I'm not the one drawing the aggro. What we need is something to help with heroes automatically targeting the MM instead of the pets in PvP. This buff, while it will extend the life expectancy of an MM, is not going to change the fact that the MM is the primary, and probably ONLY target. Why should any hero target your pets, which are harder to hit than you are, and have more resistance than you do? Now they can target you, and pump all that damage through to kill your pets faster than they could if they targeted them specifically. And if you DON"T use them on bodyguard, all the better....your'e dead already.
My entire secondary is designed to help protect my minions. This power, while nice at prolonging my own life, allows heroes to ignore all the bubbles I put out there and kill my pets without having to worry about their defenses OR resistances. At least dark miasma can use their AE heal. My secondary is about PROTECTING my pets, and now that protection can be completely bypassed! Sure, my life expectancy is now extended, but at the cost of virtually my entire secondary!
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Personally, I think there was a much better way to deal with this Mastermind PvP problem, so I think I'll post it and see what everyone thinks.
What if, instead of dying the second their mastermind bites it, the henchmen continued fighting? What if they doggedly chased the person who killed their leader until either he/she or they themselves are dead?
This would change the dynamic. Suddenly the hero would have to make the tactical decision "Is that attackless Mastermind really my primary target?" I think this would give MMs higher survivability because, most of the time, the enemy would naturally come to the conclusion that the top tier pet is the primary target and the MM himself, along with his lower tier minions, is more the mop-up material instead
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No, this wouldn't help. The problem is that MM pets lack movement powers, which means that anyone who kills the MM and runs is going to get away. Even if the pets do follow him, they will draw all sorts of aggro from NPCs and will be killed, thus removing any threat.
Having minions survive the MM is definately not the answer. What we need, what we've been begging for, is a way to convince players they need to kill our minions (at least some of them) BEFORE they kill us.
If there were a 20% chance per minion in supremacy range (even if they were set for bodyguard, such as it is now) for any attack aimed at the MM to hit a random pet instead, THEN players would find it necessary to target specific pets rather than the MM.
5-6 pets one of them automatically takes the hit
4 pets 80% chance
3 pets 60% chance
2 pets 40% chance
1 pet 20% chance
Doing this would encourage players to take down specific pets, rather than allowing damage to be randomly dealt to whatever pet jumps in the way. It would also still allow the pets to use their defenses and resistances against the attack (which the current setup doesn't do....it is currently easier to kill minions by targeting the MM who is easier to hit, and simultaneously bypasses all resistances the pets may have.
We want a reason for our PETS to have to be targeted....NOT US. All that bodyguard in its current implementation will do is insure that WE are the targets, and never our pets....THAT is the problem....that, and the fact that FF users can't help protect their minions under the new system. This just made FF pretty worthless.....and made Dark Miasma very powerful due to its AE heal.
Suriyama
40 bots and bubbles
Justice
Maybe if they replaced the not so useful first attack with some sort of reverse taunt ability? One that forced the target to attack a random henchman instead of the Mastermind himself?
yeah, unless they change it to have pets defenses/resists included in the equation for their own share of the damage, i'll retire my bot/ff at 37 (7 bubs from force bubble and /ff keeps getting nerfed 
It's almost pure bonus, it seems to me.
If you don't want to use it or don't see a benefit, stay away from defensive+follow. Play normally.
Otherwise, have at.
Not every ability fits with every playstyle.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
well mm's are already gimped in pvp
i wanted to actually be able to be equal to a few sets, but i guess the devs just want blasters vs stalkers
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Not every ability fits with every playstyle.
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That is exactly the problem here. All Masterminds are desperately in need of this sort of power, mainly for PvP. It is not appropriate to give it to us in a form that only fits certain playstyles.
I can see how bodyguard is potentially extremely powerful, using an entirely new kind of MM build and playstyle. But for our current builds and playstyles (which we enjoy very much), this implementation of bodyguard is considerably less helpful.
Bodyguard is such a good idea, yet it is just so poorly implemented with the def/fol settings. It needs to be more available for use in all types of MM playstyle.
A PvP fix for MMs wouldn't be that hard to encode:
1. Pets get the travel power of the MM and use it when you do, and keep up with you perfectly.
2. TP Foe brings the MM and his pets, and the specific target (i.e. the MM, is replaced with a random pet)
3. Placate, dammit, placate! Let the MM placate his enemy, or have the pets taunt the enemy they attack.
4. Set a mode so the MM becomes indistinguishable from one of his pets. If you can't tell who is the MM and who is the henchman, the MM can live that much longer.
5. Make the pets a threat. Make the henchmen damage actually meaningful in PvP!
AoE damage versus a MM in Bodyguard status won't be as bad as some people are making it out to be.
Let's break it down. For these examples, we will throw away resistance and defence and all those other helpful things that would normally increase your survivability. We're going to use assume that the MM is level 38. It is also being assumed that for the tier 1 (T1) pets, they take 20% more base damage due to their level (36). The tier 2 (T2) pets will take 10% more base damage, and the tier 3 (T3) will take the same damage as the MM. I am using the HP of the Robotics minions for these examples (not sure if they are different from the other primaries):
<ul type="square">MM 699 HP
T1 480 HP
T2 655 HP
T3 840 HP[/list]Color coding will be as follows:
<ul type="square">50-100% HP
30-49% HP
10-29% HP
1-9% HP
DEAD[/list]Let's say that the MM is standing next to the six pets, all of which are in defensive/follow mode. The MM is then targetted by a level 38 player or enemy with an AoE attack and it lands, hitting all seven targets. The attack does exactly 100 points of damage to each target of equal level. The remaining HP after the attack would be:
<ul type="square">Without Bodyguard (BG):
MM 599 HP
T1 360 HP
T2 545 HP
T3 740 HP[/list]<ul type="square">With Bodyguard (BG):
MM 674 HP
T1 347 HP
T2 532 HP
T3 727 HP[/list]Hardly any difference, except that the MM him/herself would barely notice the damage at all with BG active. Everyone is still well within the green either way. Nothing to worry about here.
Let's up the AoE's damage to do exactly 300 damage to each even-level target.
<ul type="square">Without BG:
MM 399 HP
T1 120 HP
T2 325 HP
T3 540 HP[/list]<ul type="square">With BG:
MM 624 HP
T1 82 HP
T2 287 HP
T3 502 HP[/list]Again, not a lot of difference except that the MM is left with 65% more health after the attack with BG active. The pets are still in their same respective danger zones and aren't that much more likely to die at this point than without BG.
Now let's up the AoE's damage to do exactly 600 damage to each even-level target.
<ul type="square">Without BG:
MM 99 HP
T1 0 HP DEAD
T2 0 HP DEAD
T3 240 HP[/list]<ul type="square">With BG:
MM 549 HP
T1 0 HP DEAD
T2 0 HP DEAD
T3 165 HP[/list]This is where BG really starts to make a difference. BG saved the MM a big chunk of HP (left with 554% more health than without BG), and the third tier pet is still in roughly the same shape it would have been without BG. Essentially, you are sacrificing only 75 HP from the remaining pet to put an extra 450 HP back onto the MM. Nice trade-off if you ask me!
This time we'll increase the AoE's damage to do a massive 1000 damage to each even-level target.
<ul type="square">Without BG:
MM 0 HP DEAD
T1 0 HP DEAD
T2 0 HP DEAD
T3 0 HP DEAD[/list]<ul type="square">With BG:
MM 449 HP
T1 0 HP DEAD
T2 0 HP DEAD
T3 0 HP DEAD[/list]BG flat-out saved the MM's life where it would normally be a total wipe. Not only that, but the MM still has more than 64% of his/her HP left thanks to BG. No reason to not want BG in this situation!
Now let's bring up the AoE's damage to do an incredible 2500 damage (!) to each even-level target:
<ul type="square">Without BG:
MM 0 HP DEAD
T1 0 HP DEAD
T2 0 HP DEAD
T3 0 HP DEAD[/list]<ul type="square">With BG:
MM 74 HP
T1 0 HP DEAD
T2 0 HP DEAD
T3 0 HP DEAD[/list]Wow. Even after such a massive attack, the MM still survived thanks to BG, and he/she still has more than 10% of their health remaining!
I can't speak for anyone else, but even when faced with some brutal AoE's, I'll still take BG any day!
What it all comes down to is this -- with Bodyguard on, your MM is generally safer than with it off. If your pets die, you can resummon them. If you die, you get debt, you're out of the action, you have to be rezzed or take a trip to the hospital or your SG base, and your pets still die. Personally, I'd rather watch my pets eat floor protecting me, rather than me taking the dirtnap first, only to have them all follow suit anyway.
BG will help. It will not solve all of the MM's problems, but no AT is perfect. There may be ways to circumvent BG in PvP, but those strategies were already in use against MM's anyhow. BG is too powerful to not have weaknesses. I say let people use TP Foe or kite the pets or whatever. If those strategies were unavailable, MM's with BG would require numerous players ganging up on them just to take them out. From what we know of BG so far, it sounds fairly balanced to me. We'll just have to wait to see how it fairs in the Training Room next week.
Nice. Seeing it all explained like that makes this extra ability seem quite desirable.
body guard is awesome 
and for all you people that say mms suck in pvp, do somethin else, or learn to play !:P i don't play masterminds that much but I've had a few completly own me in pvp! of course there's those that stand still in the middle of their pets and whine when.....:P
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So you're saying they'll divy up the Unresistable portion too?
I duno man, that sounds like more coding than it's worth to me...
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It takes the entire block of damage and apportions it by the ratios described. For the Mastermind, he then gets his Resistances applied, while the pets get no resistance to the shared damage.
In the case of unresistable damage, therefore, all damage is apportioned, then resists apply normally -- the unresisted portion is still unresisted, but it is reduced by the Bodyguard.
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Who owns that damage, and how is it generated. For instance if the damage kills a henchman, will the balance fall on other henchmen or the MM? Do the henchmen receive the damage from an entity owned by the MM, so that when the MM is confused it might not work?
Info plezz!
** APPLAUSE **
Excellent post, sir! ^_^ Here ... have a cookie, you earnd it! ^_^
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Who owns that damage, and how is it generated. For instance if the damage kills a henchman, will the balance fall on other henchmen or the MM? Do the henchmen receive the damage from an entity owned by the MM, so that when the MM is confused it might not work?
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It seems to me that bodyguard is taken into account when damage is calculated. Asking if the other henchman/the mastermind "take up the slack" when a henchie dies is like asking where the extra damage goes when you get killed by an attack that does more damage than you have hit points.
Now with numbers! For easy numbers, we'll say there are 2 pets within range (50%/25%/25%). The mastermind gets targeted with an attack that does 400 damage.
Because of bodyguard, this is equivalent to a funkey AoE that hits the mastermind for 200 damage, and each pet with 100 damage each.
Even if one of the pets only has 2 hit points left, he is still allocated 100 damage. That 100 damage doesn't (or shouldn't) jump ship and hit someone else instead.
The real question will be whether the damage vector remains the same (i.e. if you get tagged with smashing damage, is the bodyguard damage smashing or untyped?)
What would be even nicer is if the the to hit formulas were also used to see if the pet took damage in the first place. This would address the /Forcefield and the Ninja/ issue, since the pet could have a higher defense than the mastermind, so an attack that hit the mastermind might not hit the pet. This would mean that the delivery and damage vectors would need to be carried over. For fairness sake, I would say the "attack roll" value would be the same for the initial hit on the mastermind as the one on the pets. That way, unless there was some +Def going on, the pets would be hit by the attack that hit the mastermind everytime, since the pet's level is always at most the masterminds level.
Considering I can get my pets at around +45% defense, but I can only get me to around +15% defense, I could see alot of attacks that would have hit me miss my pets.
I see this ability as more like defiance every hour that passes, it's something there, that is ignored for the most part, not actually helping out survivability in any major way (unless you go out of your way to bind the hell out of your keyboard), it'll be nice once and awhile when something happens like an ambush, or getting randomly assaulted by a blapper or Melee on the Fight Club.
I'll take it, but I'm very disappointed, the doesn't really address any MM concerns for PvP balance, like Set up time, travel issues, the Melee/ranged imbalance (hell this furthers the melee/ranged imbalance). Seriously, I would drop this ability in a heart beat if I could get a click power that triggered the 300 foot away pet teleport thing for all pets from anywhere, that'd solve many more problems then then this does.
The keybind thing doesn't seem that hard.
Say you're bots and you want your protector bots to allways have your back (since you havn't really slotted them for damage anyway)
/macro petcom_all attack aggressive$$petcom_pow prot follow defensive
Bam! Your protector bots make one attack each (probably a photon grenade or seeker drones), then start body-guarding you, and when another one of your bots takes a hit, then your protector bots will start contributing more to combat.
Heck, if you just use the macros it gave you when you started, just modifying them to be petcom_all instead of petcom_pow, just add the second part ($$petcom_pow prot def follow) to all of the macros, and there ya go.
Dr. Corvus, I like the way you crunched the numbers to show the usefulness of Bodyguard.
Personally, my problem with Bodyguard is the fact that it bypasses my entire secondary line. I am a FF secondary. I put bubbles on my minions every 4 minutes to extend their lives and make them more durable. Bodyguard, if implemented as described, will have all of the damage I pass to my minions bypass the bubbles completely! What good is my secondary now?
In PvP, why should any hero target my pets? They are harder to hit than I am, and have more resistance. Now, heroes can pump damage into me, and if I don't have bodyguard set, fine...I die just as fast as I always have (faster because now I can't fade in and out of PFF). If I do have bodyguard set, they can kill my pets by attacking me, and they will kill them FASTER and EASIER than if they attacked them directly. My set doesn't come with a heal, like Dark Miasma, my set depends on PROTECTING my minions and making them harder to kill. All bodyguard does is make my minions EASIER to kill.
I guess if you want to PvP post I7 as an MM, you better have Dark Miasma as your secondary, because FF is going to be pretty worthless.
Yes, bodyguard will extend my life expectancy, but it does so at the cost of my entire secondary.
Suriyama
40 bots and bubbles
Justice
I am not very familliar with the Hero side of things. Could someone tell me, what are the biggest damage Area Effect and Single Target hits that a Hero can muster?
yeah, this won't increase our longevity by much, and doesnt increase our (pitiful) dps
guess i'll just keep my mm's out of pvp zones like i already do