Eh, it's whatever.
But, I'll be more happy with the one shot nerf. Why? Becausse their point is to let you retaliate. Very, very few attacks can get off before a stalker's second attack.
What does that mean? They are going to slap a small delay on AS.
What does that mean? Fully defianced and angry blasters.
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But, I'll be more happy with the one shot nerf. Why? Becausse their point is to let you retaliate. Very, very few attacks can get off before a stalker's second attack.
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That's why I PVP the way I do. I enjoy people fighting back. Makes me feel a well-earned sense of victory, if/when I win.
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What does that mean? Fully defianced and angry blasters.
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Unless the Stalker is smart and only uses AS as a finisher on Blasters. A shame we don't see too many of those Stalkers.
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But, I'll be more happy with the one shot nerf. Why? Becausse their point is to let you retaliate. Very, very few attacks can get off before a stalker's second attack.
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That's why I PVP the way I do. I enjoy people fighting back. Makes me feel a well-earned sense of victory, if/when I win.
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What does that mean? Fully defianced and angry blasters.
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Unless the Stalker is smart and only uses AS as a finisher on Blasters. A shame we don't see too many of those Stalkers.
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Yes, I don't mind if I get pinged a few times, placated, then AS'd. There was always the small, minute chance of retaliatory action.
What I do hate is having to rely on two powers, CM and Tactics.
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But, I'll be more happy with the one shot nerf.
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I'm also looking forward to this,although, I fail to see how it's going to solve the issue.
If I need to team to be able to see a stalker and have a chance of survival, then they should have to team to defeat me and my team.
I dont' think they should allow Stealth and Hide to stack and instead give STalkers an inherent power that allows hide to grant the same -perception as hide+stealth currently does, but only when teamed with another non-stalker.
Brother of Markus
The Lord of Fire and Pain
The Legendary Living Hellfire
Fight my brute!
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But, I'll be more happy with the one shot nerf.
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I'm also looking forward to this,although, I fail to see how it's going to solve the issue.
If I need to team to be able to see a stalker and have a chance of survival, then they should have to team to defeat me and my team.
I dont' think they should allow Stealth and Hide to stack and instead give STalkers an inherent power that allows hide to grant the same -perception as hide+stealth currently does, but only when teamed with another non-stalker.
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...
I guess since dominator needs a team to take stand a chance against a scrapper, scrappers should only have mez protection when they are teamed with a non-scrapper.
As interesting as your idea is, it will only lead to the unlucky visible teammate to be ganked, since thats the only thing the heroes see.
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I'll have to test it out, but I think it was the wrong direction to go in. Removing the autohit from Placate and requiring people to slot it for ACC would've been better. Then it has a chance to miss. As an autohit, it is overpowered.
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QFT.
I am a strong believer that NO POWER in PVP should be auto-hit. Especially one that basically doesn't allow someone to attack you but allows you to still attack them.
Dominators don't need mitigation from their secondaries. Even if they did, there's ice (slows), psi (-recharge), and fire and elec (death).
-Talen_Lee commenting on Energy Assault's Utility
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Whenever I'm attacking a team , I usually get beat down right away. Stalkers always get the most hero aggro. Even with placate, attacking a team that has half a brain and surviving is tough.
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Seriously though, what do you guys think?
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Seriously?
I think you'd have much better luck working with a team - and have your team attack another team.
I think solo stalkers attacking teams successfully(that is, scoring kills and surviving an escape) is all too common, and advocates a nerf to the archetype in a more meaningful way than the plethora of flame-filled threads on the subject.
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I think this is humorous, as this is exactly what I do on my scrapper when solo. I teleport straight in, take out my target while they're still going 'wha...', and tp the hell out. I'd say I escape retribution more often on the scrapper than whenever I play the stalker. Too many hero teams already have more perception than even stacked hide and stealth.
Linna
Matt Miller: The Patron Powers are stronger and more powerful than the �equivalent� powers in City of Heroes (the Ancillary Power Pools), because there is less diversification and the fact that Patron choices are permanent alterations to your character.
"Mez protection" doesn't let the scrapper one-shot the dominator from parts unseen without ever even offering the dom the chance to run away, let alone fight back.
Brother of Markus
The Lord of Fire and Pain
The Legendary Living Hellfire
Fight my brute!
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"Mez protection" doesn't let the scrapper one-shot the dominator from parts unseen without ever even offering the dom the chance to run away, let alone fight back.
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The end result is the same. Almost no risk.
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"Mez protection" doesn't let the scrapper one-shot the dominator from parts unseen without ever even offering the dom the chance to run away, let alone fight back.
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The end result is the same. Almost no risk.
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Y'mean, like a controller vs a brute? There's balance on both sides, this is the only issue where there is no equal.
It takes three or four apps and it's done and that's if the scrapper doesn't have a toggle like Integration.
How is that the same as "BAM one-shot you're dead"? At least the dom has the chance to run away. If you've been AS'd, you don't have the chance to even run away, you're just dead before you've even seen what's killed you.
Brother of Markus
The Lord of Fire and Pain
The Legendary Living Hellfire
Fight my brute!
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"Mez protection" doesn't let the scrapper one-shot the dominator from parts unseen without ever even offering the dom the chance to run away, let alone fight back.
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The end result is the same. Almost no risk.
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Y'mean, like a controller vs a brute? There's balance on both sides, this is the only issue where there is no equal.
It takes three or four apps and it's done and that's if the scrapper doesn't have a toggle like Integration.
How is that the same as "BAM one-shot you're dead"? At least the dom has the chance to run away. If you've been AS'd, you don't have the chance to even run away, you're just dead before you've even seen what's killed you.
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This point is not legit given that 1-shotting will be removed from the game. Thus if you get ASed from 300 feet away, you have plenty of time to pop a green or use a self heal.
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"Mez protection" doesn't let the scrapper one-shot the dominator from parts unseen without ever even offering the dom the chance to run away, let alone fight back.
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Not one-shot, no, but very nearly that with a critical and BU. Of course, you can't count on a critical, but if the first hit is a knockdown attack, 10 to 1 that dominator will not get up before he/she is finished. Very little fighting back there.
I think a great deal of the problem is that a lot of ATs can only function well in pvp when grouped. There are very few ATs that can do well solo, and stalkers and scrappers are the two that are most suited to it. I think it is a good thing there are ATs that can solo, not everyone has the time to find a group, or plays at a time when there are enough people to group with (and most PUGs suck).
The fact that there are so many stalkers and scrappers around, would seem to indicate (a lot) more people feel like I do. But to blame scrappers and stalkers for the fact they can solo effectively in PVP and you can't, is attacking the problem from the wrong side. Nerf-crying will only diminish us all in the end, because once one template/AT is nerfed, people will start whining about the next 'overpowered' combo. I think it would be more productive to ask the devs to tweak those other ATs so they too can do better when alone.
I started playing this game because the one I had spent 2.5 years in before (SWG) got turned into a game where there are only 7 combat ATs left, without any template diversification. All 7 share almost the exact same skills underneath a superficial skin. The nerfcryers won in that game. Everyone is the same, fastest connection wins. What fun.
Linna
Matt Miller: The Patron Powers are stronger and more powerful than the �equivalent� powers in City of Heroes (the Ancillary Power Pools), because there is less diversification and the fact that Patron choices are permanent alterations to your character.
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Additionally, this change was mostly aimed at the Bloody Bay and Siren's Call levels where Stalkers are so far above any other AT in Kill Count vs Death Count that it isn't even funny.
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And why is this? Because all the other villain ATs are subpar compared to stalkers for PvP. Villains burst damage is lousy in PvP except for stalkers. So of course stalkers will have more kills then any other villain AT. When two of the villain ATs inherents are hard to impossible to use (fury, domination) people ignore pets of course (MM) and unless, youre fire/rad or ice/rad you wont have enough damage to take on most people (corr). This is more of a problem for the other ATs needing buffs then stalkers needing a nerf.
Why do you think we see so many more stalkers in PvP then any other AT, and yet in PvE all the ATs are around equal numbers?
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QFMFT
(Quoted for...)
In addition, I feel I must point out that this nerf seems fine (at least in how it appears it will work), and I think it was a good way to go about dealing with the problem.
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"Mez protection" doesn't let the scrapper one-shot the dominator from parts unseen without ever even offering the dom the chance to run away, let alone fight back.
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The end result is the same. Almost no risk.
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Y'mean, like a controller vs a brute? There's balance on both sides, this is the only issue where there is no equal.
It takes three or four apps and it's done and that's if the scrapper doesn't have a toggle like Integration.
How is that the same as "BAM one-shot you're dead"? At least the dom has the chance to run away. If you've been AS'd, you don't have the chance to even run away, you're just dead before you've even seen what's killed you.
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This point is not legit given that 1-shotting will be removed from the game. Thus if you get ASed from 300 feet away, you have plenty of time to pop a green or use a self heal.
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It's not a cure-all. I spend almost no time, even on my squishies, running around with 100% health. All it takes is 1 hp missing and it's a one shot.
My poitn is as legit (or as illegitimate as is the case right now) as yours.
Brother of Markus
The Lord of Fire and Pain
The Legendary Living Hellfire
Fight my brute!
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QFT.
I am a strong believer that NO POWER in PVP should be auto-hit. Especially one that basically doesn't allow someone to attack you but allows you to still attack them.
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Exactly, I knew placate was powerful but I had no idea how powerful it was till this change. The whole Stalker AT is just full of so many multipurpose gank gimmics that it must have been designed by some pvp mad developer...
PVP mad developer: "Hmm lets see, I would like Stackable concealment and went I attack while concealed I want critcal damage, oh and I want an attack that can wipe something out in one hit while concealed! what else? hmm... Oh I want a power that forces my target to break target lock on me and increases my concealment! and boy it would be nice if I could have Energy melee for the stuns, damage and toggle drops too but anyway I also will need mez protection and some kick butt defensive powers..."
Statesman: " Wait, wait! stop! what this next thing about Tanker level hit points!"
PVP mad Developer: "Well ok I can see your point I guess, lets lower the hit points a bit."
Statesman: "Ok now you are balanced"
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EDIT: Additionally, this change was mostly aimed at the Bloody Bay and Siren's Call levels where Stalkers are so far above any other AT in Kill Count vs Death Count that it isn't even funny. In higher level PvP zones, players have plenty of options of dealing with Stalkers, which *should* force Stalkers to Team more.
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Yeah, and the kill count order is usually:
Stalker
Blaster
Scrapper
Controller
Tanker
Defender
Brute
Corruptor
Dominator
With forum posters wanting stalkers to be barely just above Brutes. :P
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EDIT: Additionally, this change was mostly aimed at the Bloody Bay and Siren's Call levels where Stalkers are so far above any other AT in Kill Count vs Death Count that it isn't even funny. In higher level PvP zones, players have plenty of options of dealing with Stalkers, which *should* force Stalkers to Team more.
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Yeah, and the kill count order is usually:
Stalker
Blaster
Scrapper
Controller
Tanker
Defender
Brute
Corruptor
Dominator
With forum posters wanting stalkers to be barely just above Brutes. :P
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Yup...
Umm...
What Controller?
What Defender?
I would ask What Tanker but that's more on why are you sticking around long enough for a tank to kill you?
And if Controllers and Defenders are that high, wouldn't that place Mastermind between them?
Far as I've experanced... Controllers and Defenders are near the bottem. Blasters under Stalkers, Brutes and Scrappers dead even. (you get to see awesome one on ones between them)
Corrupter and Tankers I would call... odd to place. Masterminds over Defender and controller.
Reason being that the top pvpers are the ones that "every" power set can be used to fight. When it comes to Defender and Controllers, you don't see everyone one being equaly as effective.
mastermind is so low they aren't even on the list
and i agree with that list, i've spent probably about 30+ hours pvping in the last few months in SC and warburg
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Yeah, and the kill count order is usually:
Stalker
Blaster
Scrapper
Controller
Tanker
Defender
Brute
Corruptor
Dominator
With forum posters wanting stalkers to be barely just above Brutes. :P
[/ QUOTE ]My observation is pretty close, IMO it is more like this:
Stalker
Blaster
Scrapper
Brute
Corruptor
Controller
Tanker
Defender
Mastermind
Dominator
Not all of the same type of AT sits up there, such as ice/rad and ice/kin Corruptors more than other builds, ice/emp or ice/storm Controllers more than others. I rarely see Dominators hold their own with their tiny hitpoints and the need for their critical domination to actually do anything good and one particular build of Mastermind I have seen do pretty good and the rest are laughable.
I would also probably put Kheldians above Blasters if they were included, they take many villains to kill and they can kill a single Stalker or Brute if they wanted to.
Well all I want is an explanation as to "What" Defenders and Controllers are killing you to be so high on the list?
Reason being that I find it hard to beleive that every Defender power set and every controller power set can enter player vs player and be powerful.
The way the power scale works in my mind is that if the AT itself can be used, not jsut "certian" power sets. Hense, every stalker, every blaster, brute, scrapper, and tanker.
If its power limited to a ceritan power set, then its not the AT, its that power set.
I do find it hard to beleive that anyone will lose to an Empathy defender as easly (or with the same difficulty) as they would a Radiation Defender.
Same goes for Earth Control (Which is what I have and when It came to my pvp experances, the set was just a notch above worthless) vs Illusion.
I'd love to see a list of average bounty/rep-per-hour by archetype.
Since characters that need a team to function in PvP would also be forced to split any PvP rewards between members.
I think that would be more enlightening a comparison with respect to PvP balance than simple killcount.
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I think that would be more enlightening a comparison with respect to PvP balance than simple killcount.
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A simple kill count would be completely useless from a balance perspective.
As would a simple death count.
This is what bothers me about some of the lists we have seen in this thread thus far as they attempt to rank kill count only and claim that as some sort of justification for whatever point they are trying to make.
The developers never stated they had a problem with the kill count stalkers had.
Their problem was in the kill count to death count ratio... this normalizes the results across the AT's for the number of players for each AT in pvp.
The ratio is an enlightened view of things... just as your average rep/hour would be normalized and hence useful.
Kill counts alone... or the number of deaths alone gets us nowhere... they need to be combined to get a meaningful result, lucky for us this is exactly how the developer analysis was performed.
Even if that list was accurate it would not matter... why?... because the blasters who fall second on the list may get tons of kills... but they get defeated often enough to bring down the ratio.
The issue here is that stalkers are killing other players, but not being defeated themselves.
The only way for this to be possible if the game is actually balanced correctly is if by some miraculous event every single good pvper ended up playing a stalker and all the bad pvpers ended up playing the other AT's.
The problem with this view is that those same pvpers play multiple AT's... so it should even out unless in addition they play stalkers exclusively and nothing else.
Exactly what are the odds that every single good pvper only played 1 AT and never played any of the others?
Needless to say the issue here cannot be player skill... therefore it must be AT capabilities, hence something needed to be changed... and this is not exactly a major adjustment.
The sad thing is that if some of the hundreds of gank and run stalkers stayed to fight a bit and allowed themselves to be defeated once and a while... the numbers would not look like this... this is what happens when people milk a fool proof gank strategy.
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I ask that you point me to a post where a dev has stated that the level differential does not apply in the arena. 
Until then, I'm going to believe that the arena is under the same percentages for level differential as the PvE game - just that everyone is granted +25% defense. No matter what, even 5 on 1, you will be destroyed by a +8 opponent - especially one piloted by a human.
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I may have said everyone is "auto-leveled" in the arena, but I was mistaken. Instead, the same code as effects Giant Monsters is in effect -- when you attack a player, your To Hit and Damage is the same level they are. So, a 40 attacking a 50, would attack as if he was level 50, while the 50 attacking the 40 would be roughly equivalent to a 40.
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in PvP an average Stalker (which I have met many of) do not realize it affects everyone around you and makes you unattackable by everyone for the duration of placate,
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I've yet to experience that without some work, if the teammates of my target have +Perception.
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if you watch the "Bad Day" video, you will notice he turns around to placate the Tanker then turns back to attack his original target.
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Both times I did that, my target either couldn't see me in the first place or they didn't bother to attack back and, instead, tried to escape. And that Controller wasn't my original target. The Tanker was. =P The Controller had just been too much of a pest in the hour I was hunting down that Tanker.
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The note in the patchnotes did not look like it will be single-target placate, from what it says, it will just make you visible enough for everyone to see you after an attack.
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It'll still be a single-target Placate, I'm sure. We just won't be as invisible as before. Not a big problem, since after the initial strike, everyone with +Perception and their mother is on you, anyway.