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@Sufferance: Crying? maybe a strong term, but the thread title is, "Placate nerf" and the affects that it will have. It isn't a nerf though that is the thing. It is a bug fix to prevent the exploitation of an unintended power effect. Besides, a good stalker would not have needed to rely upon this glitch anyway. My comment about tohit debuffs getting nerfed was to show what an actual nerf looks like (in this patch at least).
That being said, the Grant Invis nerf is kind of interesting and is what I am paying attention to. Though it is a global AT nerf, it will affect pvp stalkers the most I think
It must be reapplied to gain the stealth benefit from it after a stalker (or anyone I assume with GI on them) attacks. Think about the work necessary to keep a stalker at the stealth cap now.
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and compare that to keeping someone anywhere near the perception cap
ugh, i forsee a lot of heroes twiddling their thumbs in RV
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This is pretty silly. I personally know that as a Stalker, I get slaughtered plenty in Siren's Call. I also know that the only thing that prevents me from getting repeatedly ganked is Placate.
Aren't there more important things to nerf? Storms? PFF? Regen for Scrappers? EM for Stalkers?
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Storm got nerfed today too. And theyre just as unhappy as you are. Does that make you feel any better?
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Well, they sure are busy crucifying him over that.
And I never knew he was biased towards us. Gasp.
Of course, it's most the same rhetoric from the same people. Way to take quotes out of context.
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This is pretty silly. I personally know that as a Stalker, I get slaughtered plenty in Siren's Call. I also know that the only thing that prevents me from getting repeatedly ganked is Placate.
Aren't there more important things to nerf? Storms? PFF? Regen for Scrappers? EM for Stalkers?
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Storm got nerfed today too. And theyre just as unhappy as you are. Does that make you feel any better?
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Well, they sure are busy crucifying him over that.
And I never knew he was biased towards us. Gasp.
Of course, it's most the same rhetoric from the same people. Way to take quotes out of context.
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The same guys who "will cancel accounts" since I2 LOL 
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This is pretty silly. I personally know that as a Stalker, I get slaughtered plenty in Siren's Call. I also know that the only thing that prevents me from getting repeatedly ganked is Placate.
Aren't there more important things to nerf? Storms? PFF? Regen for Scrappers? EM for Stalkers?
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Storm got nerfed today too. And theyre just as unhappy as you are. Does that make you feel any better?
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Well, they sure are busy crucifying him over that.
And I never knew he was biased towards us. Gasp.
Of course, it's most the same rhetoric from the same people. Way to take quotes out of context.
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The same guys who "will cancel accounts" since I2 LOL
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Circuit_Boy thinks Castle actively tries to nerf other ATs in the name of stalkers. He completely disregards the effects Hurricane has on scrappers, brutes and tanks. Any melee AT is crippled by the repel and acc debuff. Also, hurricane can be used like TK in that it pins people so they can't get out.
Ahhhh well, what can you do. They are both blasters, the AT that whines and moans the most.
Oh yea, they just assumed the Castle went and nerfed hurricane. Are they even sure that he was the one who actually change the code?
Be fair, Castle was concerned about Hurricane and made that known. The Patchnotes did say that if a stalker had repel resistance that he would not be interrupted. You put two and two together and most people get four.
It has been tested and it has been found that the patch notes are wrong. However, since another patch is comeing before I7 it could mean that the changes simply hasn't hit yet. No confirmation there on what was intended.
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This is pretty silly. I personally know that as a Stalker, I get slaughtered plenty in Siren's Call. I also know that the only thing that prevents me from getting repeatedly ganked is Placate.
Aren't there more important things to nerf? Storms? PFF? Regen for Scrappers? EM for Stalkers?
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Storm got nerfed today too. And theyre just as unhappy as you are. Does that make you feel any better?
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Well, they sure are busy crucifying him over that.
And I never knew he was biased towards us. Gasp.
Of course, it's most the same rhetoric from the same people. Way to take quotes out of context.
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The same guys who "will cancel accounts" since I2 LOL
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Circuit_Boy thinks Castle actively tries to nerf other ATs in the name of stalkers. He completely disregards the effects Hurricane has on scrappers, brutes and tanks. Any melee AT is crippled by the repel and acc debuff. Also, hurricane can be used like TK in that it pins people so they can't get out.
Ahhhh well, what can you do. They are both blasters, the AT that whines and moans the most.
Oh yea, they just assumed the Castle went and nerfed hurricane. Are they even sure that he was the one who actually change the code?
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I know! We had an arena match and our stormie cornered 1 brute. It made him COMPLETELY useless. It was funny for us, but our friend bouncing in a corner for 5+ minutes doesn't think the same
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Be fair, Castle was concerned about Hurricane and made that known. The Patchnotes did say that if a stalker had repel resistance that he would not be interrupted. You put two and two together and most people get four.
It has been tested and it has been found that the patch notes are wrong. However, since another patch is comeing before I7 it could mean that the changes simply hasn't hit yet. No confirmation there on what was intended.
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Was castle's mention caused by his love for stalkers? Or perhaps was it because he's the only red name that posts ANYTHING on balance?
Here's the link to his post:
Castle's post on hurricane
Reading the post over it goes like this:
"For instance, hurricane. We knew it was problematic in PvP. Our tests showed how it could be abused, but we deemed it an acceptable issue. I'm sure all the PvP folks are either quite happy or really annoyed by that decision. I do recall "inventing" the game of PC Bowling during one of the CoV Beta PVP tests. "
He uses "we" as in the internal testing team. "We knew it was problematic in PvP". Nor does he mention stalkers in this post ANYWHERE.
What other Red Name has posted recently on balance issues? Hmm...it's unfortunate that his simple posting of an observation the internal testing team made on hurricane makes HIM the scape goat for the hurricane nerf. Why don't you guys stop beating on him?
You guys aren't putting 2 and 2 to make 4. You guys are putting 2 and 2 to get 5. People like circuit_boy added in that extra 1 to help bridge the "Castle loves stalkers, Nerfs Hurricane" connection.
Incorrect. Coming up 4 here. Can that Stormie defeat your stalker solo? no. If they nerf hurricane, or if you use a ranged hold, can you defeat said stormie? Absolutely.
There is no need to nerf hurricane. It AT BEST gives the storm person survival. Nothing more. Enter the team dynamic, and a domintaor drops the hurricane, and done.
I realize you PVP addict that think stalkers aren't overpowered, think that Stalker's should be able to solo any other AT. Well, you are wrong. While you may not be able to use the same old worn out chain of attacks to defeat a storm def/controller, it's still a very easy kill. You just MIGHT have to team.
And, remember, kiddies:
In order to defeat a stalker not asleep at the keyboard, that same stormie MUST get a team.
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Incorrect. Coming up 4 here. Can that Stormie defeat your stalker solo? no. If they nerf hurricane, or if you use a ranged hold, can you defeat said stormie? Absolutely.
There is no need to nerf hurricane. It AT BEST gives the storm person survival. Nothing more. Enter the team dynamic, and a domintaor drops the hurricane, and done.
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It AT BEST completely destroys melee ATs with the massive acc debuff. It at best does a pseudo immobolize by pinning people to walls. Enter the team dynamic: A stormy has mez protection. The Dom's hold don't work. Don't have mez protection? Eat a BF.
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I realize you PVP addict that think stalkers aren't overpowered, think that Stalker's should be able to solo any other AT. Well, you are wrong. While you may not be able to use the same old worn out chain of attacks to defeat a storm def/controller, it's still a very easy kill. You just MIGHT have to team.
And, remember, kiddies:
In order to defeat a stalker not asleep at the keyboard, that same stormie MUST get a team.
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Hey, someone needs to work on reading comprehension.
The decision as to whether hurricane needed a nerf is not based on whether stalkers are overpowered. Its on how they affect EVERY melee AT.
And another thing, stormies don't always need a team to kill enemies. I've been pinned to a wall, and held through integration. I chewed a Break free, turned integration back on, and started throwing focus. No dice, they missed. I was pinned to the wall. And slowly, I got held again, and died.
And stalkers don't mind teaming. Guess what, I'm part of a SG. My stalker shines in team play. Don't try to categorize me. K, thnx, bye.
The Hold argument really only applies to Recluse's Victory and the Arena.
However, in all current PVP zones and in the Arena, there lies an issue. The Stormie can just shove the Stalker into a mob of friendly NPCs to off them or pin them into a hole/corner so that they're detained, effectively perma-"holding" the Stalker unless that Stalker is EA or has Teleport. That's soon to end, but it's still a current annoyance.
As Kahoru said, it affects all melee ATs. Not just Stalkers.
_Castle_:
Just to clarify the following statement:
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Additionally, this change was mostly aimed at the Bloody Bay and Siren's Call levels where Stalkers are so far above any other AT in Kill Count vs Death Count that it isn't even funny. In higher level PvP zones, players have plenty of options of dealing with Stalkers, which *should* force Stalkers to Team more.
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I presume we can assume that the "Kill Count vs Death Count" in both Bloody Bay and Siren's Call is significantly higher for Stalkers than it is for any other Archetypes.
Is the "Kill Count vs Death Count" higher for Stalkers in Warburg as well?
40062: The World's Worst PUG
84008: Jenkins's Guide to Super-Villainy
230187: The Hero of Kings Row
No H8 - 08.04.10
@Circuit Boy - Moderator - Pride global chat channel
the question i have is...what's wrong with stalkers having higher kill counts? we are the assassin class
are all AT's supposed to be about equal? should stalkers have similar k/d ratios to defenders? mm's? doms?
Whatever, he won't stop until blasters get mez protection and can auto-decimate every other AT.
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the question i have is...what's wrong with stalkers having higher kill counts? we are the assassin class
are all AT's supposed to be about equal? should stalkers have similar k/d ratios to defenders? mm's? doms?
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It's not the kill counts it's the Kill Counts with Death Count. If you read what he is saying he's telling you that "it wasn't even funny" and isn't funny. It's why people absolutly hate this class. It's not that you can kill people it's your risk vs rewards and guessing by there data it's so unbalanced it's not even funny.
They have never used that term even when they were busy nerfing Refen Scrappers which tells me that what people are seeing and reporting is true. You guys are on God Mode and who wouldn't like being on God Mode in a PvP zone.
If you want your high kill counts your going to have to pay for them. It's about balance and right now Stalkers aren't even close to being balanced. You have high kill counts with very low Death Counts. I know if I get a Stalker on my Bounty it's going to take at least 30-60 minutes to kill him if at all. Not [censored] funny. On my Corruptor I get anybody on my Bounty and within 5 minutes that person is dead. It's your high kill counts with low death counts that needs to be balanced. Be like a Blaster and get high kill counts well Blasters have high death counts. Or be a Tank and have low kill counts but a low Death count. But you can't keep having it both ways.
You can scream bloody murder all you want but obviously if there saying "It's not even funny." then something is grossly out of balance. We'll wait and see if your God Mode gets flushed down the toilet. So far this is the only patch I have ever looked forward to.
i thought they already did, what with the buffbots in the hospital spamming CM and the like...
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It's not the kill counts it's the Kill Counts with Death Count. If you read what he is saying he's telling you that "it wasn't even funny" and isn't funny. It's why people absolutly hate this class. It's not that you can kill people it's your risk vs rewards and guessing by there data it's so unbalanced it's not even funny.
They have never used that term even when they were busy nerfing Refen Scrappers which tells me that what people are seeing and reporting is true. You guys are on God Mode and who wouldn't like being on God Mode in a PvP zone.
If you want your high kill counts your going to have to pay for them. It's about balance and right now Stalkers aren't even close to being balanced. You have high kill counts with very low Death Counts. I know if I get a Stalker on my Bounty it's going to take at least 30-60 minutes to kill him if at all. Not [censored] funny. On my Corruptor I get anybody on my Bounty and within 5 minutes that person is dead. It's your high kill counts with low death counts that needs to be balanced. Be like a Blaster and get high kill counts well Blasters have high death counts. Or be a Tank and have low kill counts but a low Death count. But you can't keep having it both ways.
You can scream bloody murder all you want but obviously if there saying "It's not even funny." then something is grossly out of balance. We'll wait and see if your God Mode gets flushed down the toilet. So far this is the only patch I have ever looked forward to.
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well i agree that the kill count v death count was is most likely higher but then again there are more stalkers in those lower lv pvp zone than there are other villain ATs after all if stalkers want to become a viable choice in the pv3 game we have to come into our own earlier than other ATs around lv 6.
in comparison a regen scrapper doesnt become nearly as good until you either have dp slotted well or have access to integration which if i remember correctly is around lv 20.
even lower lv tanks take a while to appropriately be able to take a good beating and while most melee ATs are still going thru puberty if it runs thru the hide+AS combo it might run into a bit of prob
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i thought they already did, what with the buffbots in the hospital spamming CM and the like...
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That still takes at least two accounts to do, if not two people. Lame? Yes.
What Stalkers do is available to every member of the AT.
Not everyone has access to a 2nd machine, a 2nd account, and a botted empathy defender.
Sgt Liberty - 50 Martial Arts / Super Reflexes
Verdigris Eagle - 50 Archery / Energy Manipulation
Stormeye - 50 Storm Summoning / Electric Blast
Kill Count vs Death Count is higher. Right.
Now, is this Kill Count vs Death Count TOTAL? Because if it is, we could argue that it's due to stalkers having a high presence in Bloody Bay and Siren's due to most other villain ATs not shining at that level/refusing to go there.
Is this Kill Count vs Death Count judged by TIME? If I have a 10 kill 1 death ratio over one hour, I'll be performing substantially worse than, for example, a blaster who managed to score a 30 kill 20 death ratio.
That's all I'm going to ask.
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i thought they already did, what with the buffbots in the hospital spamming CM and the like...
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Blasters start at a disadvantage. Without sufficient perception, blasters are stuck playing 'Where's Waldo', as waldo is staring back at them playing 'Stab You in the Face'.
With and emp/, blasters are given the tools to play the same game that stalkers are(the mez protection is only a side-effect). Of course, teamed stalkers are allowed to debuff all the blaster's primary attacks to melee range.
That's what we call balance!
They're not idiots. If they're looking at the numbers, assume they've normalized them somehow per AT.
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EDIT: Additionally, this change was mostly aimed at the Bloody Bay and Siren's Call levels where Stalkers are so far above any other AT in Kill Count vs Death Count that it isn't even funny. In higher level PvP zones, players have plenty of options of dealing with Stalkers, which *should* force Stalkers to Team more.
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Nerf Teleport. Add in a bunch of -Jump and -Teleport powers. Then kill count to death count will balance out.
I've never seen a Stalker that has *only* Fly or Super Speed.
Currently roleplaying, badgehunting, and laughing at the PvPers of CoX. lol, PvP.
Truedusk - Human Rogue
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They're not idiots. If they're looking at the numbers, assume they've normalized them somehow per AT.
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I'd think so for average, but less so regarding the time factor.
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EDIT: Additionally, this change was mostly aimed at the Bloody Bay and Siren's Call levels where Stalkers are so far above any other AT in Kill Count vs Death Count that it isn't even funny. In higher level PvP zones, players have plenty of options of dealing with Stalkers, which *should* force Stalkers to Team more.
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Nerf Teleport. Add in a bunch of -Jump and -Teleport powers. Then kill count to death count will balance out.
I've never seen a Stalker that has *only* Fly or Super Speed.
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TP doesnt suppress after an attack does it?
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Whatever, he won't stop until blasters get mez protection and can auto-decimate every other AT.
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Am I the "he" you are referring to here?
Because if that's the case, you're just dead-wrong. I have NEVER argued that Blasters should get mez protection or that they should be able to "auto-decimate every other AT".
In fact, I have repeatedly argued against the idea of Blasters getting mez protection over on the Blaster board.
If you meant some other "he", I stand corrected and will allow that individual to defend himself against your maligning.
40062: The World's Worst PUG
84008: Jenkins's Guide to Super-Villainy
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No H8 - 08.04.10
@Circuit Boy - Moderator - Pride global chat channel
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Why not leave Placate as-is for PVP but just add a to-hit check?
NOTE: that's a to-hit check ONLY for PVP. Leave 100% as-is for PVE.
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i've said it before...every stalker would just find it mandatory to put 3 recharges and 3 acc's in it...so it'd hit 95% of the time instead of 100%...not a big difference