My take on unlockable contacts.
By
8_Ball,
Posted on: 2006-02-24 19:12 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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I am putting the requirements for Contacts - and their location - in the Prima Guide...
but here was our intent with these Contacts - reward Exploration. Reward people who poke around to find new things. Now, the down side is that once found, these Contacts don't inform the player about what it takes to unlock them.
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Unforntunatly the only exploration they are rewarding now it the exploration of the google bar.
But this seems to be a very common mmorpg problem.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
Yep.
AND STATESMAN!
If you're following the thread:
Don't make the Shard a secret! Jesus.
Chief Hamster of the Fist of Justice / Shadows of Victory
Victory Server: Join Victory Forum for team forming and general game chat and IRC Chat: irc.hashmark.net #victory for offline chatting.
Rock, rock on Hamster.
And make the entire Shard a co-op zone.
Not like anyone uses it now.
Chief Hamster of the Fist of Justice / Shadows of Victory
Victory Server: Join Victory Forum for team forming and general game chat and IRC Chat: irc.hashmark.net #victory for offline chatting.
Rock, rock on Hamster.
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I agree wholeheartedly with having some actual 'in-game' content that gives clues and points people toward things like the unlockable contacts. It's one of the main problems (IMO, of course) with MMOs today that there's just not enough game 'in-game.' And usually performing web searches and printing out lists of coordinates and a checklist of required elements . . . well, that's just about as dry as it sounds. It's not putting the 'game' in the game at all.
Such things really do much less than they potentially could for actual enjoyment, due to the process I just described above. It's not playing, it's googling for information and that's just not a good game, IMO. Please put the 'game' back in the game where it belongs with 'in-game' clues and mysteries to unravel instead of web searches.
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I so agree. I don't want to do 'homework' for a game.
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why not? the devs already make you pay taxes in prestige. i cant wait for them to institute a progressive net worth tax to get rid of all the influence around.
I like the hidden contacts as is. It helped add a sense of wonder to the game.
Heroes of Justice: Geratron - 50 FA/FM Tanker
Villains of Infinity: Psychotron - 50 FM/FA Brute, Operative Gerald - 50 Arachnos Widow
Rogues of Exalted: Peanut Butter Fairy - 50 FM/FA Brute
MY main problem was I didnt know they existed until reading this forum. I had however seen doctor buzzsaw and wonderd how to get him as a contact. So in Co fashion I tried getting refered to him to no avail. It is quite frustrateing to not only not know about their existance but to have no idea how to get it even knowing its an unlockable contact i very annoying.
I do not like the current implementation of the unlockable contacts, either. Without seeing information on the boards, I would never have known about them, or their requirements. Once I did find out about them, I found I had already outlevelled most of them (I just had Johnny Sonate and Leery left).
For one, I don't like missing on content I never knew existed. I know I missed some SFs, but I can go back and do those any time with the auto-exemp feature. Adding this to the unlockables (in addition to expanding the level range) might go a long way to helping the problem -- autoexemp upon entering a mission. (Actually, this should be done for all missions/contacts that we may have missed along the way -- particularly those badge-giving contacts in the 10-15 range I always outlevel)
Another problem, as I see it currently, is that in the late game, you actually need these contacts to continue levelling in story content. Without Leery and Sonata, I would have fallen short of making it to 40 with mission content. Actually, even with them, it required doing other people's missions, etc. in order to get there.
I definitely agree with those wanting more in-game clues to the existance of these contacts. Scratch was added to our contact list immediately, as are the brokers. Once we unlock a contact, we should get "Badge Earned" and "Contact Unlocked" messages on the screen, and the contact should either be placed in our list. We should get hints about the contact location/requirement before unlocking, as well. Either through civilians, contacts, or the newspaper (it could pop up level appropriate stories that don't link to specific missions like "Mysterious Slot Machine urges heroes to kill Family", or somesuch).
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It's already there, to one degree or another.
I first found out about unlockable contacts when I stumbled upon this guy in Sharkhead. He told me that I had to prove to him that I hated the Scrapyarders if I wanted to work with him. So I went out and killed a bunch of Scrapyarders, got the badge, went back to him, and he gave me missions. No spoiler site, no hints, just finding the guy, reading his text, and unlocking him.
Incidentally, this was one of my favorite experiences with CoV when it first came out. The feeling of discovery was immensely satisfying.
I realize that not all of them are this clear, but it's working in some cases.
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Maybe they could spell it out a little better, not spoil it, but just a bit more of a push, cause I haven't 'found' one like that yet.
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I explore, I read, I click - and I also have yet to find any of the hidden contacts based on just 'In Game' knowledge.
My memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
Also, my memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
"The tip of a shoelace is called an aglet, its true purpose is sinister." The Question
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It's not playing, it's googling for information and that's just not a good game, IMO. Please put the 'game' back in the game where it belongs with 'in-game' clues and mysteries to unravel instead of web searches.
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Quoted for emphasis. Very well put.
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I don't like unlockable contacts for several reasons. I have no idea how to unlock them, and there isn't any indication anywhere to any of them. Even if you come accross them (and that's a big IF), they're still vage to the point of uselessness. Also, they require actions that in no way correspond to the contacts themselves, and the reasons behind these actions are never explained.
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And along these lines....on a couple of rare occasions I have by some miracle come across an unlockable contact on my own. (before friends and internet sites started helping me find them). Of course at that point I didnt have whatever badge was required to unlock them. And I also had no clue about coordinates on the map (i learned quickly tho)...So these contacts I did find...what were the odds I would remember where they were? Practically none.
I think that when you speak to an unlockable, whether you unlock them or not, they should then show up on your map. Because Im sure there are plenty of people who A)will not be buying the Prima guide and B)just play the game, without any help from anywhere. A person in my VG who is level 35 said to me yesterday: I still consider myself very new to this game, and Im still learning everything that goes on. There is alot I have no clue about.
And those people miss out on alot :/ (hell, I played coh for almost 2 years, and had no idea you could pull up coordinates on the map, what they meant or how they worked.)
I've read what it takes to get some of these contacts. None of them are worth the time and effort that I normally would put into exploration.
Now, you have to keep in mind. I've rifle-butted a Halo jeep through a narrow hallway just to see what would happen. I've actually found all the personalized weapons for the characters in Final Fantasy X. I'm an exploring *fool*. I'm also a badge hound.
But these 'unlockable' contacts require a number of badges and hoops to jump through that seems *fine tuned* to be *exactly* 1 iota outside my threshold of interest.
When it comes to contacts, I think we need to suspend the mindless timesink methodology of badges. I get that for a an achievement, 100 paragon protectors makes sense. But if you're trying ot unlock a contact... can't it just be 10? 20? Maybe not just the bosses, but regular mobs in a class?
Really the point here is that half the time, you'd outlevel these damn contacts in the process of getting the badges you need to take their missions!
No more wire hangers.
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Also, they require actions that in no way correspond to the contacts themselves, and the reasons behind these actions are never explained.
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I like how Veluta is done. Given her storyline, it's not unusual that she'd require trapping ghosts to start talking to you. Having to get the Bling back (1 million inf) for Doc Buzzsaw doesn't really.
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As far as making sense, Veluta does. However... getting the bagdes (at least the last time I did it) was rediculous.
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I haven't even done the respec trial yet because no one seems to want to do one. I don't need one but it would be nice to have one banked.
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Yes, most people don't normally voulenteer for forced anal [censored] with a giant cactus and no lube.
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I'm all fine and well with additional content to reward the explorers, but as it stands the redular content is lacking, and these contacts are becoming mandatory, which is really frustrating. Make sure you have sufficient content to allow less-avid exploeres to advance through content without ending up out of missions. THEN add additional rewards.
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Oh boy, do I ever agree with this! I play at off hours so rarely have the opportunity to team (outside of "team night"). I've run two villains up the level race and I ran out of missions (meaning was forced to do newspaper missions to reach the next threshhold) at 28, again at 34, and again at 38. And that was doing the unlockable contacts! Doing levels 38-40 with only newspapers and PvP missions was a HUGE DRAG! The game became a job, NOT a game.
How much of this problem would be solved, how many frustrations put to rest, if the level restrictions were removed on these secret contacts? How many times have people discovered them 'naturally' only to find that they were SOL anyway?
I'm not crazy about level restrictions on normal contacts, but I can accept them as encouragement to play through again with alts. But it seems that the hidden contact 'reward' for exploration turns out more often to be a kick in the teeth. 'Good job, you found a hidden contact, too bad you can't actually do the content now.'
Remove the level restrictions on the secret contacts. Thanks.
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How much of this problem would be solved, how many frustrations put to rest, if the level restrictions were removed on these secret contacts? How many times have people discovered them 'naturally' only to find that they were SOL anyway?
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Exactly. Or in the case of Jaeger, outleveled him because because of a bug with unlocking him.
Gothika (Grav/Kin) Marionette (Ill/Rad) Terra Firma (Earth/Storm) Alana Dale (Arch/Nrg)
Iceblink (Ice/Dark) Fantasia (Mind/Fire) Shadow Minx (Claws/Nin)
--Virtue
The first hidden contact I found was Veluta (sp?). It was with my lv 28 character so kind of pointless. She told me to kill ghosts, but all the ghosts were grey so I figured that I had long outleveled the contact.
The problem is I don't explore a zone until I outlevel it. I do like booting around checking out the sites, but only after I don't have to worry about getting smacked around by the NPC's there. Or, if I fly, I am up high enough that I don't see NPC's, again so I don't get attacked while taking in the sights.
Even so, I only recognized her by pure accident. I have probably seen other unlockable contacts and just dismissed them because they weren't on my contact list thinking that I just hadn't been introduced yet. I can't even remember what possessed me to talk to Veluta, I think it was that I was going around just looking at the profiles of NPC's at the time.
So, some kind of clue that they exist might be good.
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Some examples,
- "Keep an eye out for Henri Dumont somewhere in Port Recluse. I hear he really has a vendetta against Scrapyarders." Each unlockable contact can be pointed to by a normal contact, who tells you the neighborhood and a second hint to unlock them.
- "I see you did a good job taking down those pirates! If you're curious about them, I've marked your map with the locations of some related tourist spots." and that puts waypoints to all the plaques for one badge.
- "I'm sure the city would do something great to reward any hero who cleans up after the Kraken." This alerts players that there's a giant monster badge.
- "so-and-so was looking for heroes for a very important mission." and refer to the Trial contacts, who are never as obvious as the TF contacts. Though the TF/SF contacts could maybe be added here, too.
- remind people to go back for their cape mission, or go to the tailor to unlock a new costume slot.
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I think this is an excellent idea!
PM the rednames immediately!
if they're going to put stuff like this in, they ought to make it dynamic and unpredictable. Otherwise, no matter how complex the unlocking procedure is, it will be found out and posted. If the unlocking procedure itself is different for everyone, then the content will simply be ignored.
Lets take a look at Archmage Tarixus. To get his missions you have to get the Lorekeeper badge which in turn requires finding 4 plaques in obscure locations in 4 different zones. As is, there is no way anyone is going unlock him without help from the Forums.
Generally CoX tries very hard to use the contact system to introduce all content. Look at the missions that send us to the Hollows, Bloody Bay, Striga, etc. We get this big errand to run just to make sure we don't miss those zones. As I whole, I think this sets the tone that the content will be spoon fed to us rather than found.
I think that exploring to find new content is a great thing and would enhance the CoX game experience dramatically, but it really needs to be part of the mindset of the game rather than an afterthought. Some suggestions:
As far as I can tell, the colored rings around the contacts, stores, etc are never explained in game. Add that to the Tutorial.
Add a contact near Fort Darwin who is unlocked by an exploration badge. Don't introduce him, but put him where every new player will see him. When you first talk to him, he explains the concept of exploration badges and tells you roughly where to find the one that unlocks him.
All unlocked contacts should give missions for the full range of the zone they are in. The saddest thing is to successfully unlock a contact and then discover you have outleveled the missions. You should only outlevel an unlocked contact when you have outleveled the zone.
Every zone should have an unlocked contact or two.
I haven't read through the entire thread yet (I don't have the time at the moment), but it seems that most poeple are having a problem with this mostly becuase of leveling restraints. This could be solved with the ever elusive "Flash Back" feature...
The other day I was respecing a very old toon (one of my first ones) when I realized the biggest problem with Respecing. Durring normal game play I put a lot of thought into choosing powers, sometimes not training for 3 or 4 levels before I decide. The same goes for Slotting. Spending all this time lets me use different enhancements in various different powers, taking note of the effects to determine what power I eventualy want to slot. (I rarely use the test server anymore). When I am respecing I don't have the luxery of seeing how the power(s) function before adding a slot to it.
Then I thought "Hmmm....wouldn't it be cool to kind of merge the mythical Flash Back feature with the Respec feature." Basicaly you would be allowed to choose what level you "Flash Back" to. Once you are in "Flash Back Mode" you can see a Trainer and train as many times as you want, up to the level you were before Flashing back (once you are trained to your previous level you would exit flashback mode). In between training you can do any missions you were unable to do at that level. While doing these missions you would not be getting XP, instead you would receive either Inf or Prestige or a combination of the two.
Perhaps even add the ability to "cancel" the flashback...kinda like a "Wooh what a strange dream" kind of thing.
Seeing as how there have been many many many threads regarding flashback, it wouldn't suprise me if something like this has already been suggested, but It seems relevant to the discussion at hand so I figured I would put my 2 Inf in.
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I haven't read through the entire thread yet (I don't have the time at the moment), but it seems that most poeple are having a problem with this mostly becuase of leveling restraints. This could be solved with the ever elusive "Flash Back" feature...
The other day I was respecing a very old toon (one of my first ones) when I realized the biggest problem with Respecing. Durring normal game play I put a lot of thought into choosing powers, sometimes not training for 3 or 4 levels before I decide. The same goes for Slotting. Spending all this time lets me use different enhancements in various different powers, taking note of the effects to determine what power I eventualy want to slot. (I rarely use the test server anymore). When I am respecing I don't have the luxery of seeing how the power(s) function before adding a slot to it.
Then I thought "Hmmm....wouldn't it be cool to kind of merge the mythical Flash Back feature with the Respec feature." Basicaly you would be allowed to choose what level you "Flash Back" to. Once you are in "Flash Back Mode" you can see a Trainer and train as many times as you want, up to the level you were before Flashing back (once you are trained to your previous level you would exit flashback mode). In between training you can do any missions you were unable to do at that level. While doing these missions you would not be getting XP, instead you would receive either Inf or Prestige or a combination of the two.
Perhaps even add the ability to "cancel" the flashback...kinda like a "Wooh what a strange dream" kind of thing.
Seeing as how there have been many many many threads regarding flashback, it wouldn't suprise me if something like this has already been suggested, but It seems relevant to the discussion at hand so I figured I would put my 2 Inf in.
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Well since flashback has been put off indefinately we need to come up with a more realistic solution.
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Well since flashback has been put off indefinately we need to come up with a more realistic solution
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Last I heard on the subject was they put it off because they couldn't find a "good" way to implement it.
I would put fixing this "problem" people have with unlockable contacts about the same priority level as flashback IMO, unless a Dev says otherwise.
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I am putting the requirements for Contacts - and their location - in the Prima Guide...
but here was our intent with these Contacts - reward Exploration. Reward people who poke around to find new things. Now, the down side is that once found, these Contacts don't inform the player about what it takes to unlock them.
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Don't get me wrong, rewards are good. But, would you consider some type of hints in-game for the non-forum, non-guide reading folks?
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I agree, something in game would be nice. I started a similar discussion last month about the contact hierarchy but also touches upon those hidden contacts.
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