My take on unlockable contacts.
By
8_Ball,
Posted on: 2006-02-24 19:12 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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I agree wholeheartedly with having some actual 'in-game' content that gives clues and points people toward things like the unlockable contacts. It's one of the main problems (IMO, of course) with MMOs today that there's just not enough game 'in-game.' And usually performing web searches and printing out lists of coordinates and a checklist of required elements . . . well, that's just about as dry as it sounds. It's not putting the 'game' in the game at all.
Such things really do much less than they potentially could for actual enjoyment, due to the process I just described above. It's not playing, it's googling for information and that's just not a good game, IMO. Please put the 'game' back in the game where it belongs with 'in-game' clues and mysteries to unravel instead of web searches.
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I so agree. I don't want to do 'homework' for a game.
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All it would take would be a little cryptic dialogue .. give people a hint, along the lines of:
"I'm losing territory hand over fist here. You put a stop to that, I might have something for you ..." then put something in their description about their war with {insert villain type}.
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It's already there, to one degree or another.
I first found out about unlockable contacts when I stumbled upon this guy in Sharkhead. He told me that I had to prove to him that I hated the Scrapyarders if I wanted to work with him. So I went out and killed a bunch of Scrapyarders, got the badge, went back to him, and he gave me missions. No spoiler site, no hints, just finding the guy, reading his text, and unlocking him.
Incidentally, this was one of my favorite experiences with CoV when it first came out. The feeling of discovery was immensely satisfying.
I realize that not all of them are this clear, but it's working in some cases.
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I am putting the requirements for Contacts - and their location - in the Prima Guide...
but here was our intent with these Contacts - reward Exploration. Reward people who poke around to find new things. Now, the down side is that once found, these Contacts don't inform the player about what it takes to unlock them.
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Don't get me wrong, rewards are good. But, would you consider some type of hints in-game for the non-forum, non-guide reading folks?
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I think they really do some need hints in the game from other contacts about the existance of the unlockables, and the unlockable contacts need to give somekind of hint about what it takes to unlock them. I'd much rather learn of the existance of unlockable contacts in the game, and get hints that I might be able to figure out the requirement from in game, rather than just going to a fan-site (or these forums) and looking at a chart, which right now is the most efficient way to find out about theses guys.
Heroes
Dysmal
Lumynous
Sam Steele
Pluck
Wile
Slagheap
Pressure Wave
Rhiannon Bel
Verified
Stellaric
Syd Mallorn
Villains
Jotunheim Skald
Saer Maen
Jen Corbae
Illuminance
Venator Arawn
Taiga Dryad
Tarranos
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It's already there, to one degree or another.
I first found out about unlockable contacts when I stumbled upon this guy in Sharkhead. He told me that I had to prove to him that I hated the Scrapyarders if I wanted to work with him. So I went out and killed a bunch of Scrapyarders, got the badge, went back to him, and he gave me missions. No spoiler site, no hints, just finding the guy, reading his text, and unlocking him.
Incidentally, this was one of my favorite experiences with CoV when it first came out. The feeling of discovery was immensely satisfying.
I realize that not all of them are this clear, but it's working in some cases.
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Maybe they could spell it out a little better, not spoil it, but just a bit more of a push, cause I haven't 'found' one like that yet.
Here's my take. I played through my first 20 levels without ever looking at a spoiler or map site. And I only look at those for zones i've already fought in for a while.
I explored Fort Hades quite a bit (found the Powder Monkey badge, though not Washed Up or the plaque) just because I was interested in it and in exploration. I had no idea anything like the ghost traps existed. If that was talked about in NPC dialog at the fort, or on citizens walking the streets in Port Oakes, it would help IMMENSELY.
Plaques are a huge problem for exploration. they are simply Too Hard to find. As are badges. Basically they need to be visible from further away. NPCs looking at the plaque with related dialog or something like that. A shiney/glowy, less LOD-clipped badge model. I walk within 50 yards of plaques all the time and never know that they're there. Sometimes I walk right by them. I jump all over interesting terrain features thinking they might have a badge but end up later realizing that I just didnt go to the one spot that gives the badge. As an example, I fought at that particular Siren's Call hotspot about 20 times before I picked up the Politician badge.
I found Archmage Tarixus and Veluta Lanata in the course of exploration, but I was beyond Veluta's level range and still haven't tracked down all the history badge for Tarixus yet.
Maybe there can be multiple plaques with the same content and that count identically? That would help.
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I am putting the requirements for Contacts - and their location - in the Prima Guide...
but here was our intent with these Contacts - reward Exploration. Reward people who poke around to find new things. Now, the down side is that once found, these Contacts don't inform the player about what it takes to unlock them.
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I agree with what some of the others have said, the contact should have a hint about what it takes to unlock them. Come might be more obvious than others, but dumb luck isn't really that fun. Solving puzzles is.
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I am putting the requirements for Contacts - and their location - in the Prima Guide...
but here was our intent with these Contacts - reward Exploration. Reward people who poke around to find new things. Now, the down side is that once found, these Contacts don't inform the player about what it takes to unlock them.
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I went through and cancelled, uninstalled, re-uninstalled and did all this over twice more for every SOE online because of the abomination of locked content.
Thanks, but no thanks. Been there and hated that. Why would I suddenly find it entertaining in CoH?
This is one shoe falling....
Waiting the for the other before I hit the road.
Cal2
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but here was our intent with these Contacts - reward Exploration. Reward people who poke around to find new things.
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Reward exploration, huh? I don't know about you, but the first time I'm in a new area, my exploration is minimal. This is especially so with a low level character, one without a Travel power or some Stealth capability. I'm more interested in just surviving getting to the mission door. Figuring out best route or shortest route is about all I'm up for. Of course, once I do have a Travel power, I usually not spending a lot of time ground level. About the only time I'll be scowering the neighborhood at ground level is if I feel like going around street sweeping. Street sweeping, an activity that is being discouraged with all the recent boosts to missions. Now I do go back to the "old neighborhood" once in a while, but it's when I've way outleveled it. Why? Because it's a lot safer to be poking around then. But hey, doesn't that mean I'd have outleveled these hidden contacts already?
Teams are the number one killer of soloists.
Some people like to explore. There should be game content that rewards you for Exploring, just like there should be content that rewards Socializing, Killing, Acheiving, and whatever other types of players there are out there.
Except the Griefers. No badge for you.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
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I am putting the requirements for Contacts - and their location - in the Prima Guide...
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That's the ultimate flaw in game design, in my opinion. Don't require your players to leave the game world to read spoilers to be able to play the game. It ruins immersion.
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but here was our intent with these Contacts - reward Exploration. Reward people who poke around to find new things. Now, the down side is that once found, these Contacts don't inform the player about what it takes to unlock them.
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States, I'm the type of person that does the exploring. When badges were added to the game, I refused to look at spoiler sites to figure out how to get them despite my friends doing so. I ran around zones looking for the badges and the plaques. There's an important different here though: I knew the badges were there.
While no NPCs in the game actually explain the purpose of badges (which would be a nice addition as well), there are at least obvious clues that they exist. I have the badge tab on my compass window, and I get badges automatic badges pretty early on (one at 10, for example.)
Hidden contacts, however, don't. I'm not saying that you should make it extremely obvious of where they are. I, personally, love the idea behind them, but I at least think there needs to be something in the game that clues you in, whether it be a contact like Kalinda explaining it to you or civilian NPCs chatting about the hidden contact or such. You have to let people know there's a reason to go "poking around."
But, please don't make it where we have to resort to looking at external sources to clue us into the various features of the game.
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I am putting the requirements for Contacts - and their location - in the Prima Guide...
but here was our intent with these Contacts - reward Exploration. Reward people who poke around to find new things. Now, the down side is that once found, these Contacts don't inform the player about what it takes to unlock them.
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That's part of the downside, States. There's plenty more where that came from.
1. Disinformation spreads like a plague. People still don't know how to deal with the Illusionist badge or most giant monsters, for instance.
2. If the badge or contact is buggy, people outlevel content before the devs realize anything's wrong. Yes, you don't seem to mind, but we do - Jaeger was like this for the longest time, as was Tarixus, and Veluta and Leery still are. Nobody likes being told they're missing out on a chunk of the game because of bugs.
3. Good portions of the game are already content-poor. Unlockable contacts with unknown requirements make this situation worse, forcing players into random guesswork. This isn't a fun activity, States. It's frustrating, especially given that so much of this content gets unlocked by either grind badges (Slot Machine, Jaeger) or badges that are too dangerous for the contact's level (Veluta).
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I am putting the requirements for Contacts - and their location - in the Prima Guide...
but here was our intent with these Contacts - reward Exploration. Reward people who poke around to find new things. Now, the down side is that once found, these Contacts don't inform the player about what it takes to unlock them.
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Henri Dumont worked perfectly. He's a good example of what should happen with unlockable contacts. I hadn't even heard of him before, to be honest. I just ran past him, saw the yellow circle and thought "Huh, who's that guy?" I talked to him, and he told me that I needed to beat more Scrapyarders before he'd work with me. So I beat up a lot of Scrapyarders. A lot. Then I got the Strike Buster badge and I thought "Oh, I bet that means he'll talk to me now." Sure enough...
So as far as he's concerned, he's working perfectly with your intent. Some of the others, like the Slot Machine, perhaps not so much.
Yes, that would be a perfect example.
I love the unlockable contacts. There are just some issues with them:
- the requirements for some are off (like Lunata requiring the Ghost badge between lvl 5 and 10 when the foes are around lvl 14)
- what was said, the requirements are almost impossible to find out without guides
- what bugs me most: once you've missed out on a hidden contact, that was it.
Poison � Sabbath
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I am putting the requirements for Contacts - and their location - in the Prima Guide...
but here was our intent with these Contacts - reward Exploration. Reward people who poke around to find new things. Now, the down side is that once found, these Contacts don't inform the player about what it takes to unlock them.
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So now we need to buy a guide to get knowledge about the game that we should have anyway?
Either don't publish it and let us find out and we'll see it on the boards, or put it in some place that we ALL can see without paying even more than our monthly fee.
I never bought strategy guides for any game and i'm not going to start now.
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I love the unlockable contacts. There are just some issues with them:
- the requirements for some are off (like Lunata requiring the Ghost badge between lvl 5 and 10 when the foes are around lvl 14)
- what was said, the requirements are almost impossible to find out without guides
- what bugs me most: once you've missed out on a hidden contact, that was it.
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Indeed.
What I'd suggest, is that once you have unlocked a "hidden" contact, all your current contacts gain a mission of "go see x" much like the annoying security chief missions in CoH.
Additionally, I'd make the level range for these contacts as wide as physically possible, obviously the foes you fight in the story are going to limit it to some point, but as noted, most of them are quite tight.
One I've noticed, needs the bling badge, which I've only just got because I've been in SG mode all the time but I've outleveled the contact by many levels.
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- what bugs me most: once you've missed out on a hidden contact, that was it.
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That's the worst thing about it for me...
In my view, they should never have included the introduction to Ernesto Hess.
When I deliberately set out to find him after finishing the Striga contacts, and (with the help of friends) did so and discovered that I'd unlocked a whole secret TF (and a cool one at that) it was massively rewarding. THAT was rewarded exploration. There were plenty of hints as to what to do.
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- what bugs me most: once you've missed out on a hidden contact, that was it.
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That's the worst thing about it for me...
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Ayup. I missed all of them twice now. lol
I think I found one but how do I know if he was a hidden contact? Rather odd eh.
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The first clue that there were unlockable contacts was when I read about them on the forum.
Since I am trying the play the game through to 40 once without looking at any guides or anything else (although I do test powers on the test server, fool me once and all that) I have found that I have not done one unlockable contact and I am a hair away from level 28. I haven't even done the respec trial yet because no one seems to want to do one. I don't need one but it would be nice to have one banked.
So, as far as my character knows, the unlockable contacts are content that doesn't even exist.
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Yup, same thing here. Trying to get through the game one time without doing any major research into the content.
I do like the idea of unlockable content. Rewards the group of players who like to explore a bit more. Not everybody is an explorer, so not everyone is going to like the concept, but I think it is good for the game to expand content for all types of players. Not everybody likes PvP either, but it is good to be in the game for those who do enjoy it. If done right, and does not intrude on those who do not want to participate in said content, it makes the game more appealing for all types of players.
I do agree with the sentiment that players should get some small clues to the existence of these contacts. Maybe not outright signal that they are there, but some kind of subtle hint or small puzzle to investigate. Right now, some of them are too hard to find.
Also, missing these contacts should not deprive those who don't care about them major story information either. From what I have heard about them so far, it appears they have good stories, but are not necessary to progress the main story. This should continue to be true.
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(2) When you have fullfilled the requirements to unlock a contact, you need to be told the contact is available. Next contact you talk to should introduce you to the contact.
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If these are supposed to be unlocked by exploring, that would remove any need to look for the person. Now they're just unlocked by achievement.
But... what if every contact in the game gave a BIG CLUE at some point in their communication. Either by completing a specific mission, or just advancing the contact bar, there is now a line "Tell me something interesting" alongside "available missions" and "ask about this contact". Unlike the one-time Difficulty-adjustment mission, these clues are always available if you call that contact.
Some examples,
- "Keep an eye out for Henri Dumont somewhere in Port Recluse. I hear he really has a vendetta against Scrapyarders." Each unlockable contact can be pointed to by a normal contact, who tells you the neighborhood and a second hint to unlock them.
- "I see you did a good job taking down those pirates! If you're curious about them, I've marked your map with the locations of some related tourist spots." and that puts waypoints to all the plaques for one badge.
- "I'm sure the city would do something great to reward any hero who cleans up after the Kraken." This alerts players that there's a giant monster badge.
- "so-and-so was looking for heroes for a very important mission." and refer to the Trial contacts, who are never as obvious as the TF contacts. Though the TF/SF contacts could maybe be added here, too.
- remind people to go back for their cape mission, or go to the tailor to unlock a new costume slot.
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I am putting the requirements for Contacts - and their location - in the Prima Guide...
but here was our intent with these Contacts - reward Exploration. Reward people who poke around to find new things. Now, the down side is that once found, these Contacts don't inform the player about what it takes to unlock them.
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Don't get me wrong, rewards are good. But, would you consider some type of hints in-game for the non-forum, non-guide reading folks?
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Agreed completely. This should be an in-game puzzle to solve by delving the game world, and solving puzzles requires information. Not an OOC puzzle to solve by delving the internet.
Have the contacts give clues, perhaps even have some contacts give clues to other contacts, but make all the information available inside the game.
After all, do you want players spending time on the internet searching, or do you want them spending time inside the game searching?
I really like the idea of unlockable contacts, but I think it would be far better if we did not outlevel them. Even if, as was the case when I did the spectral pirate arcs, the encounters are scaled down to their intended level.
I can't see something that gives players something to do upon achieving the endgame as a bad thing. I know a lot of people who badge hunt and explore more after hitting 40 (50 in CoH) and it's a shame that some really fun arcs will be missed.
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I am putting the requirements for Contacts - and their location - in the Prima Guide...
but here was our intent with these Contacts - reward Exploration. Reward people who poke around to find new things. Now, the down side is that once found, these Contacts don't inform the player about what it takes to unlock them.
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A few problems:
* Players find the contacts and just assume they're another contact that will be given to them later. Not a lot of players, if any, will come back and check.
* A number of them will never (and I mean NEVER) be unlocked accidently. In particular, the ghost buster lady and Doc Buzzsaw. It's very bloody unlikely any player will unlock those without using out of character knowledge.
Chief Hamster of the Fist of Justice / Shadows of Victory
Victory Server: Join Victory Forum for team forming and general game chat and IRC Chat: irc.hashmark.net #victory for offline chatting.
Rock, rock on Hamster.
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I am putting the requirements for Contacts - and their location - in the Prima Guide...
but here was our intent with these Contacts - reward Exploration. Reward people who poke around to find new things. Now, the down side is that once found, these Contacts don't inform the player about what it takes to unlock them.
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Don't get me wrong, rewards are good. But, would you consider some type of hints in-game for the non-forum, non-guide reading folks?
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That's a major beef I have with this game, you have to find something out everywhere else except for actually in the game.