Why can't we be friends? (Pocket D QoL)
By
Ambience,
Posted on: 2006-02-11 17:44 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
[ QUOTE ]
There is at least one exploit which I can think of off the top of my head. You can target anybody in your friends window who is nearbye just by clicking on their name. That would allow you to target a hidden stalker friend or any other hidden friend for that matter. Even unhidden friends that were near enough could be found behind buildings or walls.
[/ QUOTE ]
And "friending" does not requiring an authentication (Ie. permission) to complete.
Still here, even after all this time!
More of a bug really, but this thread has talked about it. I have tried with two diffeent Heroes to buy the temp powers from Chilly, the bartender. I don't loose any influence, nor do I get a temp power. Well one time he did take my 1000 inf, but I have never gotten a power from him. Others on my team can. My enhancement trays have an opening, mu insp trays have an opening, and yet I have no access to them. What's the trick?
My first short story (detective fiction) came out in Jan-2012. Other stories and books to follow, I hope. Because of "real writing". COH was a big part of that happening.
[ QUOTE ]
Could we maybe, I dunno, get explanations for when our ideas get shot down?
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh yes, sure. I am positive that Positron and Statesman will happily share all their source code with us.
I am also quite positive that at least 99.99% of the forumers wouldn't know what to do with source code if it came up to them and bite them on their behind.
Positron didn't shoot the trainer idea down. He simply states that there where some technical issues with it. This would typically mean that it is related to how the code is written.
Main Hero: Flame Blade (Scrapper lvl 50; Katana/Regeneration)
Main Villain: Elenor Seahawk (Mastermind lvl 44; Necromancy/Poison)
My Arcs: #337278: Learning Curve
Fight my Brute: SMASH
There should be an arachnos Quartermaster making out with a Freedom Corps agent in a secluded corner; their forbidden love drives them to give influence and infamy to whoever approaches them!
They should be named romeo and juliet. And their love should be coded to be eternal.
[ QUOTE ]
Internally, all trainers are the same thing; it just gives you different text based on whether you're hero or villain. As some people mentioned earlier, a villain can go up to Ms. Liberty and gain a level, then be sent off with a "Get out there and do some villainy!" It's just too much extra work to code a "lock" into the trainers, when heroes and villains can't meet each other's trainers to begin with.
- -
A neutral trainer could be devised, but from a RP perspective it would make no sense. This person would have to have the authority to both increase someone's security level in Paragon City (not permission that is handed out lightly, as it's only the trusted signature heroes who can do this), as well as be qualified to increase a villains threat level (also not given out lightly, as only Recluse's arbiters may do this). Who could possibly be trusted to have such permissions for BOTH sides?
[/ QUOTE ]
<.< well... actually (and sorry, was gone most of the evening, or I would have posted this sooner ^^;
, they already had one added in, though he is now one of the rednames let go.. NOMAD was a neutral with some limited authority in both sides..
>.> or, if needed, you could have a UN official, cov islands are allowed to exist at the UN's whim, so logically they could train you.
o.o and in the end, CoV side is THREAT LVL, as in, threat to paragon/vill groups.. which means it's based partially on Paragon's decision of how dangerous you are to them.
I am Sleepy! Hear me Yawn!!
Veni, Vidi, Dormivi!
-Alpha Kitty of the Guardian chapter of the Legion of Catgirls
Never forget--Sleepy could conquer the world, if she could just stay awake long enough. =) -Llanwe
[ QUOTE ]
OK, if you say there are exploits possible, I believe you (even though I can't imagine what they are). I suspect you guys are experts at exploit-detection by now.
But the training and enhancement issue? Look at it as a challenge! Pocket D is a good thing you have going--in fact it may be unique to the popular MMOs. It just needs a little buffing! 
[/ QUOTE ]
^^;; after spending lots of time playing hide and seek in atlas... trust me, they're are some GREAT exploits for PvP greifing with that, and it's a good thing you can't.
<.< on a side note, yes, you CAN use tp friend to visit the vill side (and fall into it from one wall), but they thought of that, and the villain doors don't respond to heroes.
I am Sleepy! Hear me Yawn!!
Veni, Vidi, Dormivi!
-Alpha Kitty of the Guardian chapter of the Legion of Catgirls
Never forget--Sleepy could conquer the world, if she could just stay awake long enough. =) -Llanwe
[ QUOTE ]
Could we maybe, I dunno, get explanations for when our ideas get shot down?
[ QUOTE ]
There are a couple of exploits that would be associated with this if we let it happen.
[/ QUOTE ]
What would they be?
[/ QUOTE ]
Off the top of my head it would make you able to target invisible types even if you couldn't "See" them.
[ QUOTE ]
Internally, all trainers are the same thing; it just gives you different text based on whether you're hero or villain. As some people mentioned earlier, a villain can go up to Ms. Liberty and gain a level, then be sent off with a "Get out there and do some villainy!" It's just too much extra work to code a "lock" into the trainers, when heroes and villains can't meet each other's trainers to begin with.
- -
A neutral trainer could be devised, but from a RP perspective it would make no sense. This person would have to have the authority to both increase someone's security level in Paragon City (not permission that is handed out lightly, as it's only the trusted signature heroes who can do this), as well as be qualified to increase a villains threat level (also not given out lightly, as only Recluse's arbiters may do this). Who could possibly be trusted to have such permissions for BOTH sides?
[/ QUOTE ]
CHUCK NORRIS!!!
... -_- .....
*triumph will be the death of me XD*....
Plasmic's Guide to Sonic/Mental
Plasmic's Guide to Regeneration
Plasmic Fire - 50 Fire/Rad Victory Server
Forming pick up groups in Pocket D is pretty frustrating. It's a lot like it was back when we didn't have global chat channels, or coalition chat or a Search mechanism. All you do is spam Broadcast/Request and send direct tells to those you can target. It's pretty stupid and a good waste of time.
Please find a way to enable Searches in the Pocket D zone (both factions or just your faction).
Please find a way to enable Searches in Bloody Bay & Siren's Call for your faction only.
I dunno what the probelm is but my guess would be a hero talking to a villian trainer. If thats the case then put the trainers outside the elevators. Then it keeps you on team still. Then again I'm assuming the prob.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Could we maybe, I dunno, get explanations for when our ideas get shot down?
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh yes, sure. I am positive that Positron and Statesman will happily share all their source code with us.
I am also quite positive that at least 99.99% of the forumers wouldn't know what to do with source code if it came up to them and bite them on their behind.
Positron didn't shoot the trainer idea down. He simply states that there where some technical issues with it. This would typically mean that it is related to how the code is written.
[/ QUOTE ]
Way to overreact. No one is asking for their source code, and a reason behind this doesn't require a source code either.
No, Flame is right, though his response was a bit antagonistic. When a dev says that there are technical problems, that's probably the best answer he could give.
Game engines are complex. If he tells us that trainers are set up a certain way, that won't make any sense to us unless he also explains the advantages and disadvantages. This is likely to be boring stuff like data packets, transfer times, database dependencies, tool libraries, or other details that really won't make things more clear.
Technical difficulties isn't the most interesting answer, but it is a reasonable one. We know it's not because they haven't thought of it, we know it's not because of story concerns, and we know that they'd like to do it. They just have some technical issues with pulling it off.
Also, Positron didn't really "shoot down" the idea, as one poster put it. He just said that something else would be done but this would be harder. That doesn't completely rule out doing it someday.
[ QUOTE ]
Technical difficulties isn't the most interesting answer, but it is a reasonable one. We know it's not because they haven't thought of it, we know it's not because of story concerns, and we know that they'd like to do it. They just have some technical issues with pulling it off.
[/ QUOTE ]
A technical answer could also consist of a response like what many others have said as well: They can't add a trainer to Pocket D because it couldn't differentiate between heroes and villains and would train both. That's still a technical reason. The source code doesn't need to be trotted out to explain something like that, and I strongly doubt that that is what anyone is requesting. That's just hyperbolic. The devs have been able to explain reasons behind things many times before even if it's something that's prevented from a technical standpoint. MM pets not being able to zone into instances is a good example of this.
Sometimes they have and sometimes they haven't. The decision is up to the devs. Since Positron often gives complex and detailed answers, he probably had a reason for not going into more depth this time.
Honestly, it's not a big deal. We seriously won't be better off for knowing what exactly the technical difficulties are.
[ QUOTE ]
Sometimes they have and sometimes they haven't. The decision is up to the devs. Since Positron often gives complex and detailed answers, he probably had a reason for not going into more depth this time.
[/ QUOTE ]
Perhaps you're correct. They have been fairly liberal with answers in the past, so it's possible there is a matter they can't reveal. Of course, Positron is also the type to jump in when he can and offer a quick answer (which is greatly appreciated, no doubt), so it's also possible he just didn't have the time. Regardless, I think Silas_Tzin is correct in that the more information we get, the more accepting people will be of the answer. Not only that, but it might help the playerbase to come up with some ideas that the devs haven't considers.
My main point for replying though is that no one is going to the extremes that FlameBlade is suggesting.
Well, as for the trainers issue, if War Witch is back from the dead, why don't we have Cyrus Thompson for the hero trainer, and maybe an old member of the Cole Gang (The Web of Arachnos) as the villain trainer? A little coding would prevent villains from leveling at hero spots, and vice versa, right?
But still, Cyrus and somebody from the Cole Gang. Or Maiden Justice for the heroes.
Or anybody... >.>
[ QUOTE ]
More of a bug really, but this thread has talked about it. I have tried with two diffeent Heroes to buy the temp powers from Chilly, the bartender. I don't loose any influence, nor do I get a temp power. Well one time he did take my 1000 inf, but I have never gotten a power from him. Others on my team can. My enhancement trays have an opening, mu insp trays have an opening, and yet I have no access to them. What's the trick?
[/ QUOTE ]
They are in your "power" list, but you have to manually drag them to your different trays. More irritated me that I had to do that than anything else.
Still here, even after all this time!
[ QUOTE ]
but the trainer issue is a little more difficult from a technical standpoint.
[/ QUOTE ]
so you can put in hero and villain specific stores and contacts but for some reason you can't put in hero and villain specific trainers? i really don't buy that argument.
Uhhh....it's rather late for me, so forgive me if I'm wrong, but are there any regular zones with more than one trainer? What if the devs coded things around the assumption that there'd only be one trainer per zone? That would be an additional problem on top of the trainers just always reacting to the character the same way.
On the other hand, story-wise "Security Level" and "Threat Level" seem to both reference the same thing, in game, from the perspective of the Super Powers Registry (or whatever that's called.) I believe that that organization is actually independent of both Paragon and the Rogue Isles, so someone from there could probably function as a trainer because s/he could update the relevant records.
[ QUOTE ]
Uhhh....it's rather late for me, so forgive me if I'm wrong, but are there any regular zones with more than one trainer?
[/ QUOTE ]
*Edit, cause I just logged in and now can't find the trainer*
Ok found it. It was actually Cap Au Diable that has the 2 trainers. One near the Port Oaks ferry and the other in Aeon City.
I'm wondering if it's something to do with a bug from CoV beta. When you exited a certain mission in Mercy, you'd get dropped, literaly, into Atlas Park. It was loads of fun. And, if you could get past the police drones, Ms. Liberty would train villains. Many jokes ensued. But now, I wonder if security level and threat level are coded the same way except for the name. Either, they need someone neutral, story wise, or recode the trainers to know the difference between hero and villain.
[ QUOTE ]
When asking a "why can't" question, I would first ask a "why would heroes and villains..." question. Why would heroes and villains form a permanent coalition?
[/ QUOTE ]
Here are a few:
Concept (RP)
There are actually several ways you could reasonably justify VG/SG coalitions on an RP level. Suppose the VG/SG is/are...
...a paramilitary organization that operates in both Paragon City (as deputized heroes) and the Rogue Isles (as mercenaries). Their ultimate goal is to disrupt villain organizations by eliminating key leaders and undermining operations.
...rivals. They are constantly sending each other "coded" messages and taunts boasting of their recent exploits.
...turncoats. One of the two groups is secretly working undercover in enemy territory. They may be there to keep tabs on the opposition, launder money, or steal enemy technology.
...two sides of the same coin. Fallen heroes or reformed villains are still friendly with each other on a personal level (they were friends when they were allies). Though they make not approve of each other's current activities, they don't let business get in the way of their old friendships.
...The A-Team. Someone betrayed several members of the group and framed them for some crime the did not commit. The "villains" have fled to the Rogue Isles trying to buy themselves some time before the authorities catch up. The heroes remain in Paragon City attempting to collect the evidence needed to clear their friends' names.
Message channel traffic (QoL)
Suppose you have "rival" SGs and VGs that PvP each other all the time. All the members could waste one of their invaluable Global channel slots just to coordinate and trash talk -or- they could simply do it on their Coalition chat. This would also clear up some of the noise on Arena and Broadcast.
[ QUOTE ]
More of a bug really, but this thread has talked about it. I have tried with two diffeent Heroes to buy the temp powers from Chilly, the bartender. I don't loose any influence, nor do I get a temp power. Well one time he did take my 1000 inf, but I have never gotten a power from him. Others on my team can. My enhancement trays have an opening, mu insp trays have an opening, and yet I have no access to them. What's the trick?
[/ QUOTE ]
Tog, for some reason Dimension Drop temp powers don't appear in your tray; you have to drag them there from your powers window.
If they aren't in your powers window either, then I don't know.
[ QUOTE ]
Either, they need someone neutral, story wise, or recode the trainers to know the difference between hero and villain.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah exactly. If they are coded different now then beta then throw in 2 trainers, one for each side. We know they have the code to recognize if a person is hero or villain cause we already have the separate contacts and stores that do this. And we have DJ Zero who doesn't care if you are hero or villain. Looks like the code is in place to be hero specific, villain specific, or neither.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Trainers currently don't care what faction you are a member of.
Walk a villain up to Ms Liberty, and she'll gladly train you. (A couple of my villains were trained by Ms Liberty in Beta)
Currently they avoid that issue by not allowing villains to enter areas where hero trainers are placed (and the other way around).
If there was a hero trainer and a villain trainer in the same area on the other hand...
[/ QUOTE ]
Fix the Talos island glitch and place them at the entrances...
[/ QUOTE ]
As others have pointed out, there would still be the issue with people being able to use Recall Friend to bring others to the "opposite" entrance.
Now, they _could_ prevent this by applying "anti TP fields" (constant AoE effects with -TP) around the entrances (or make it a zone-wide effect that covers the entire Pocket D).
This would of course be a (minor?) inconvenience for people using TP...
That would seem to cover the most apparent technical issues, but there may still be other things that would have to be considered too.
Aside from the technical aspect, the "story" would also have to be taken into consideration. Would the factions place trainers in Pocket D?
I suppose Arachnos could easily order Arbiter Fred to stand around there, but who would the heroes place there?
I suppose they could ask CuppaJo...
edit:
Another problem: Even if they'd make changes so that you can not get into the "wrong" entrance, people who log out there before said changes are made would still appear there when they next log in. They could probably work around this too, but it might not be pretty...
Of course, there's the question if this would present enough of a problem to dismiss the idea...