Why is disorient a disadvantage?
By
9783_Dollar_Man,
Posted on: 2005-11-17 18:25 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Yep, problem since beta. CoH beta that is, as was stated.
If the enemy has decided to move before you hit it, it goes hyper.
If, however, you hit it before it decides to move, it stumbles about.
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Bug
In an upcoming patch, flying entities that are disorient will no longer behave oddly.
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What about jumpers? (Personally, I don't ever recall seeing the sprinters, but the jumpers have always been there.)
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Since they are gifted with Hurdle automatically,
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haha, i wish i could have access to that form of hurdle. i've seen enemies jump literally 75 up and over a wall when stunned.
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It's a byproduct of the way the AI handles movement, and yes, it's a problem.
[/ QUOTE ]It's not a problem - as designed. The Player and the AI will never be created equal. If you want to fight opponents that have to play by the same rules that you do, play PvP.
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Mind you that you will probly have to play by different rule in PvP then you do in PvE... what AT doesn't have powers that behave differently in PvP? 
I'm chiming in here, too, because with my Energy brute, and ED, I'm actually wanting to slot a disorient SO in my attacks (especially Total Focus and Bonesmasher, as they seem to have the highest chance of causing a stun). Plus, I'm getting Stun, so that I can deliberately disorient an opponent.
I'm glad that the flying/hovering enemies won't go taking off again, but that doesn't fix the fast movement, and jumping, that other disoriented enemies get.
Holds work the same on enemies as they do players.
Immoblizes work the same way on enemies as they do players.
Sleeps work the same way on enemies as they do players.
So why do disorients work differently?
ED stands for "enhancement diversity", and for the first time since CoH's launch, I have a reason to slot attacks with something other than acc/dam enhancers, but I'm concerned that stacked disorients on an enemy will cause more trouble than it's worth. 
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Bug
In an upcoming patch, flying entities that are disorient will no longer behave oddly.
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I think this bug has been around for a long time. Wouldn't the patch of always been upcoming if the fix for it has been worked on this long?
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No, disorient is useful on Villains, just like it is on Heroes.
Small problem: All Villain powers are Clicks. Even movement powers.
So, just like a human player, a Villain's AI says "get away, you're mezzed!".
And they do. Since they are gifted with Hurdle automatically, and since all movement powers are Clicks, they don't drop when the villain is "mezzed".
See? It's quite simple. Disorient doesn't suck, this is all just a side-effect of the game engine!
Doesn't that make you feel better? 
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There's one thing wrong with your logic: You can't use click powers while stunned.
Anyway.. this has already been explained as a bug.
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The actual problem with their logic is that the powers are Auto, not click 
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The incredible leaps, faster-than-normal speed, completely missing trip mines, jumping out of caltrops of mobs has been a problem for a LONG time.
NOW it is getting fixed?!? I'm grateful, really, I'm just wondering why the 16 months we COH players have been complaining about it weren't good enough, that it took COV to get some action on this.
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Maybe they've been trying to fix it the whole time and just now figured out where the problem was coming from exactly. It's probably tucked inside some labyrinthine block of code that doesn't look like it has anything to do with it.
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Bug
In an upcoming patch, flying entities that are disorient will no longer behave oddly.
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I think this bug has been around for a long time. Wouldn't the patch of always been upcoming if the fix for it has been worked on this long?
[/ QUOTE ]It has been around forever. Just ask anyone with Oppressive Gloom, sometimes you feel like you've entered the Olypmics because a group of stunned foes will suddenly be able to leap with perfect precision to the crossbeams at the top of a warehouse or even onto the hanging lights. Also funny watching Freakshow and the flying CoT fly straight away at max speed from you while supposedly stunned. The moving at full speed in a straight line after stunned is easy to demonstrate. It happens all the time when I duo my corruptor, I'll pull a foe with Moonbeam, the EM brute will be standing ahead of me but out of LOS of the foe, foe runs by the "hidden" brute, gets smacked and stunned by brute, but continues to run all the way up to me while stunned (sometimes this can be quite a large distance), THEN starts wobbling around.
Here's to hoping it's more than just the flying while disoriented that gets fixed.
Block of ice and other held foes suspended in the air, no big deal. I'm guessing the 600 self-identified level 50s in the Triumph forums have all contended with this situation somehow. meh...
Leaping on to tall buildings in a single bound as a level 6 Hellion, irritating but coped with somehow by everyone from day 1. meh...
Disorient allowing flight away at incredible speeds seems like more than that, so was VERY pleased to see Geko respond and identify that it is a bug.
This strikes me as an excellent opportunity to demonstrate their legitimate interest in diversifying enhancements. If disorient worked on foes in the same way being stunned after using an awaken worked on us, then disorient enhancements would become much more sought after.
I'm looking forward to reading "fixed disorient bug" in an upcoming patch update, maybe as a solstice/christmas/hannukah/kwanzaa present?
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No, disorient is useful on Villains, just like it is on Heroes.
Small problem: All Villain powers are Clicks. Even movement powers.
So, just like a human player, a Villain's AI says "get away, you're mezzed!".
And they do. Since they are gifted with Hurdle automatically, and since all movement powers are Clicks, they don't drop when the villain is "mezzed".
See? It's quite simple. Disorient doesn't suck, this is all just a side-effect of the game engine!
Doesn't that make you feel better?
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There's one thing wrong with your logic: You can't use click powers while stunned.
Anyway.. this has already been explained as a bug.
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Any click powers that are on when you get stunned stay on. Hasten doesn't drop just because you get stunned nor does Practiced Brawler. Since all NPC movement powers are click powers if you stun someone while they are flying they stay flying. I believe that if you stun someone who can fly but is not flying then they do not fly away, they walk away. But I haven't tested that; it's just what I've observed and remember from normal fights. -Note- some NPCs (CoT Ghosts) are always flying so they are especially problematic for stunners.
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Holds work the same on enemies as they do players.
Immoblizes work the same way on enemies as they do players.
Sleeps work the same way on enemies as they do players.
So why do disorients work differently?
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Actually holds & sleeps stop all movement powers on players where as they don't drop the perma-hover that NPCs have access to. Only the holds that have an additional -Fly component do that. If I sleep a CoT Ghost he just stays in the air asleep. But yes, I agree with your point.
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No, disorient is useful on Villains, just like it is on Heroes.
Small problem: All Villain powers are Clicks. Even movement powers.
So, just like a human player, a Villain's AI says "get away, you're mezzed!".
And they do. Since they are gifted with Hurdle automatically, and since all movement powers are Clicks, they don't drop when the villain is "mezzed".
See? It's quite simple. Disorient doesn't suck, this is all just a side-effect of the game engine!
Doesn't that make you feel better?
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There's one thing wrong with your logic: You can't use click powers while stunned.
Anyway.. this has already been explained as a bug.
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Any click powers that are on when you get stunned stay on. Hasten doesn't drop just because you get stunned nor does Practiced Brawler. Since all NPC movement powers are click powers if you stun someone while they are flying they stay flying. I believe that if you stun someone who can fly but is not flying then they do not fly away, they walk away. But I haven't tested that; it's just what I've observed and remember from normal fights. -Note- some NPCs (CoT Ghosts) are always flying so they are especially problematic for stunners.
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I think an easy way to nail the flying disorient bug is to attach an inherent -Fly to Disorient. Even things with auto fly get grounded with this (so far only tested on Prototype Oscillators). Well, as grounded as they can get. This way they can still stagger around, sprint off, and leap but they won't fly away.
Maybe a solution for the PvE disorient would be to have a -speed on it as well. That way if they do sprint off maybe they'll do so slowly?
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Bug
In an upcoming patch, flying entities that are disorient will no longer behave oddly.
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Will they still be able to run (stagger) away at top speed? When I get stunned, I can barely move.
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Bug
In an upcoming patch, flying entities that are disorient will no longer behave oddly.
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Huh.
This has been a bug since, around launch I wanna say.
Kinda convienent you're finally looking into it with the most recent "melee attacks auto missing" bug.
Wow, are they finally going to change the stun modifier to movement from the +movement power that gives stunned mobs superspeed/super Jump/fly to the - movement that we get?... kind of about time isn't it?
you're right Reiella,
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The actual problem with their logic is that the powers are Auto, not click .
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It is not true that all NPC powers are clicks... if they were, we could not drop toggles such as shamans hurricanes and crey rad infections etc. (lots of NPC toggles exist) disorients drop these toggles as easily and they are dropped on player characters.
Many NPC powers are different from heroes and the movement powers are in that category, they are Auto or inherent. Some villain phase shift powers are inherent also which can be very irritating since they can't be dropped with a lucky, well timed hold.
Put a SLOW or Immob on the disorient and the problem is solved.
I'm a big Oppressive Gloom user, so I experience the issue as much as any other powerset, and its not that big a deal. Annoying, yes, occasionally painful, sure.
Game-breaking, no.
I'd rather see them implement the Faultline trial first, maybe with LUSCA trying to tear it down.
you know what? it just dawned on me. remember the patrol bug last issue where you'd zone into a map and patrol mobs would zip around like they were late for a meeting? it didn't seem like a big deal, the problem was probably something minor like the server starting its patrol mobs on their patrol scripts when your client started the map load...so then when you finished zoning in you'd see the patrols playing 'catch-up' on your machine (when they were really already caught-up on the server). the mish script on the client must have been saying 'these patrol guys start here'...but when you finish zoning the server was saying 'nahnah they're way way over here now 10 seconds into their patrol'.
the movement of those patrol mobs was just like the movement of disoriented mobs: the animation of disorient like the animation of patrol creeping doesn't match the move speed/direction we see onscreen. because the mapserver was doing something a little different than our clients.
so here's a guess: the client's got this rule that disoriented foes get -speed and -fly (you can tell since foes that come at you fast on the ground while disoriented are using that slow walk animation). the server doesn't...or doesn't in all cases of running and flying.
i'm hoping what always looked like the dev intent is what we get: running disoriented mobs look goofy. like they were intented to only creep along, fly ability or no. 
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Bug
In an upcoming patch, flying entities that are disorient will no longer behave oddly.
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Any chance that you could also have disorient include -jump, the way it does for PCs?
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Bug
In an upcoming patch, flying entities that are disorient will no longer behave oddly.
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Awesome, that bugs been kicking around since pre-Issue 1
I third that. This long standing bug has to be fixed for all opponents and their modes of movement. Stunned opponents should act stunned and they should have their movement restricted to what ours is. If they are flying creatures for whom flight is not a normal state then they should be grounded and incapable of flight until the stun wears off and they are then able to resume flight.
And above all, other players should stop sugar coating this and mollycoddling the 'devs'. Recognize a bug as a bug. (and one for whom a fix is long overdue)
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Bug
In an upcoming patch, flying entities that are disorient will no longer behave oddly.
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Huh.
This has been a bug since, around launch I wanna say.
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And I wanna agree with you. =D
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Bug In an upcoming patch, flying entities that are disorient will no longer behave oddly.
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Huh let's see..this has been a bug since when?
Oh right, CoH beta.
Complained about by players since when?
CoH beta, check.
Glad it's finally getting looked at.
A little late? Check. A dollar short? We'll see.
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