Why is disorient a disadvantage?
By
9783_Dollar_Man,
Posted on: 2005-11-17 18:25 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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I've been playing an Energy Melee Brute since release, and also played one in beta. Something that has always really confused and annoyed me is the fact that when stunned, a large number of enemies suddenly gain extraordinary movement powers, which they then use to flee your presence with alarming speed.
Particularly guilty of this are enemies with inherent flying abilities, such as Goldbrickers, Wyvren Wing Talons, CoT ghosts, and Arachnos Mu units. All of these have an obnoxious tendancy to fly STRAIGHT UP at around 50 MPH when stunned, preventing me from attacking them at all. Often, since most of these are ranged attackers, they just stay up there, and I'm forced to run around a corner or under an overhang so that they don't just sit up there taking potshots at me.
All of this leads me to wonder, why am I being punished for having a side effect on all of my attacks? Isn't stun supposed to be useful to me?
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When you're stunned do you stand right next to the giant death machine, or wobble away?
No, disorient is useful on Villains, just like it is on Heroes.
Small problem: All Villain powers are Clicks. Even movement powers.
So, just like a human player, a Villain's AI says "get away, you're mezzed!".
And they do. Since they are gifted with Hurdle automatically, and since all movement powers are Clicks, they don't drop when the villain is "mezzed".
See? It's quite simple. Disorient doesn't suck, this is all just a side-effect of the game engine!
Doesn't that make you feel better? 
Currently playing:
Infaerna Who knew Fire/Fire Brutes were fun to play?
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I've been playing an Energy Melee Brute since release, and also played one in beta. Something that has always really confused and annoyed me is the fact that when stunned, a large number of enemies suddenly gain extraordinary movement powers, which they then use to flee your presence with alarming speed.
Particularly guilty of this are enemies with inherent flying abilities, such as Goldbrickers, Wyvren Wing Talons, CoT ghosts, and Arachnos Mu units. All of these have an obnoxious tendancy to fly STRAIGHT UP at around 50 MPH when stunned, preventing me from attacking them at all. Often, since most of these are ranged attackers, they just stay up there, and I'm forced to run around a corner or under an overhang so that they don't just sit up there taking potshots at me.
All of this leads me to wonder, why am I being punished for having a side effect on all of my attacks? Isn't stun supposed to be useful to me?
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When you're stunned do you stand right next to the giant death machine, or wobble away?
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The problem is they are not wobbling, but moving at full coordinated speed. There should be some -move penalty associated with being stunned. I think no flying while stunned would probably be appropriate as well..
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When you're stunned do you stand right next to the giant death machine, or wobble away?
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The problem is they are not wobbling, but moving at full coordinated speed. There should be some -move penalty associated with being stunned. I think no flying while stunned would probably be appropriate as well..
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Yep, running at sprint speeds, jumping over walls, doing everything but wobble...
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Doesn't that make you feel better?
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I've read your troll guide, sir. Doesn't that make you feel better?
And just to clear things up, I have no problems with the AI wobbling away from the unstoppable death machine that just stunned it. My problem is solely with the instances in which the wobbling does not occur.
When enemy AI moves, it selects a point and says "I'm going here" and it then goes there unless something forces it to stop or a scatter effect is enabled.
If you stun an enemy directly after it says "I'm going there" and starts moving, it will continue on its way there at full speed, over any amount of obstacles. A disorient technically doesn't debuff movement, so the AI moves at full speed.
Once it's reached the targetted destination, it will wobble around as normal.
It's a byproduct of the way the AI handles movement, and yes, it's a problem.
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When enemy AI moves, it selects a point and says "I'm going here" and it then goes there unless something forces it to stop or a scatter effect is enabled.
If you stun an enemy directly after it says "I'm going there" and starts moving, it will continue on its way there at full speed, over any amount of obstacles. A disorient technically doesn't debuff movement, so the AI moves at full speed.
Once it's reached the targetted destination, it will wobble around as normal.
It's a byproduct of the way the AI handles movement, and yes, it's a problem.
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Mostly true.. however it doesn't explain why some enemies will remain flying in place (no "I'm going here") after being stunned, or mearly drift down slowly...
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It's a byproduct of the way the AI handles movement, and yes, it's a problem.
[/ QUOTE ]It's not a problem - as designed. The Player and the AI will never be created equal. If you want to fight opponents that have to play by the same rules that you do, play PvP.
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When enemy AI moves, it selects a point and says "I'm going here" and it then goes there unless something forces it to stop or a scatter effect is enabled.
If you stun an enemy directly after it says "I'm going there" and starts moving, it will continue on its way there at full speed, over any amount of obstacles. A disorient technically doesn't debuff movement, so the AI moves at full speed.
Once it's reached the targetted destination, it will wobble around as normal.
It's a byproduct of the way the AI handles movement, and yes, it's a problem.
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Mostly true.. however it doesn't explain why some enemies will remain flying in place (no "I'm going here") after being stunned, or mearly drift down slowly...
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Fly in place is "I am going nowhere". Mob Fly is a passive power not a Toggle one. If Stun was also -Fly, -Jump and -Speed then it would have to cost more End or last a shorter duration.
Drift down slowly is the Fly equivalent of Stagger in Small Circles.
regards, Screwloose.
"I am not young enough to know everything."
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For Fraks sake read the Guides and FAQs
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Bug In an upcoming patch, flying entities that are disorient will no longer behave oddly.
Excellent. Thanks for the heads up.
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Bug
In an upcoming patch, flying entities that are disorient will no longer behave oddly.
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Err, I appreciate any bug fix, but in what way won't they behave Oddly?
Will walking and jumping mobs also not behave in this Odd manner?
regards, Screwloose.
"I am not young enough to know everything."
How to Look Stuff Up Yourself - It's Fun and Easy
Looking for Powers Numbers try City of Data.
For Fraks sake read the Guides and FAQs
Global Chat Channels - Australia
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Bug
In an upcoming patch, flying entities that are disorient will no longer behave oddly.
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Any hope for a fix of non-flying entities that are behaving oddly?
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No, disorient is useful on Villains, just like it is on Heroes.
Small problem: All Villain powers are Clicks. Even movement powers.
So, just like a human player, a Villain's AI says "get away, you're mezzed!".
And they do. Since they are gifted with Hurdle automatically, and since all movement powers are Clicks, they don't drop when the villain is "mezzed".
See? It's quite simple. Disorient doesn't suck, this is all just a side-effect of the game engine!
Doesn't that make you feel better?
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There's one thing wrong with your logic: You can't use click powers while stunned.
Anyway.. this has already been explained as a bug.
You mean when mobs are disoriented they won't fly away at great speed, jump tall buildings in a single bound, and move faster than a speeding bullet?
How about when the are held or immobilized? Will they still hover in mid air encased in a block of ice, or will the actually fall to the ground?
Those bugs are old old old!! And its not like they havent been bugged, I know, I have bugged them and got tired of bugging the same issue. It might not "break the game" but its very frustrating on the player side especially when faced with a difficult opponent.
i'm gonna second screwloose on this. we've been seeing this problem in coh with all 'critters' since...the dawn of paragon. are we going to fix just flying enemies or are we going to fix them all? because everything exibits this behavior to some extent. if i'm running a toon and i get disoriented my movement ability is all but cut off. if i disorient a non-flying critter though (and flight ability doesn't make a real difference here) it will almost always glide away from me at a nice clip while under disorient (and it even looks wierd, like it's a bug). btw, up until recently that was the only thing that made cak worth taking from ma 
.
Can we get a fix so perps will no longer jump out of Caltrop patches, either?
Yes, they STILL do this if they're next to a wall or staircase. Wouldn't I love to be able to duplicate this ability.
"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty."
"Nothing is unchangeable but the inherent and unalienable rights of man."
- Thomas Jefferson
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Doesn't that make you feel better?
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I've read your troll guide, sir. Doesn't that make you feel better?
And just to clear things up, I have no problems with the AI wobbling away from the unstoppable death machine that just stunned it. My problem is solely with the instances in which the wobbling does not occur.
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Thanks!
Really? Interesting. In that case, I recommend posting in support of "% chance increase" Enhancements.
Currently playing:
Infaerna Who knew Fire/Fire Brutes were fun to play?
all those "don't let so-and-so escape" missions also have a problem with this. Once the target decides to run, they move at Sprint speed even when disoriented.
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I've been playing an Energy Melee Brute since release, and also played one in beta. Something that has always really confused and annoyed me is the fact that when stunned, a large number of enemies suddenly gain extraordinary movement powers, which they then use to flee your presence with alarming speed.
Particularly guilty of this are enemies with inherent flying abilities, such as Goldbrickers, Wyvren Wing Talons, CoT ghosts, and Arachnos Mu units. All of these have an obnoxious tendancy to fly STRAIGHT UP at around 50 MPH when stunned, preventing me from attacking them at all. Often, since most of these are ranged attackers, they just stay up there, and I'm forced to run around a corner or under an overhang so that they don't just sit up there taking potshots at me.
All of this leads me to wonder, why am I being punished for having a side effect on all of my attacks? Isn't stun supposed to be useful to me?
[/ QUOTE ]I want to know why we villains in cov were never given this inherrent power? 
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
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Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
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Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
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I've been playing an Energy Melee Brute since release, and also played one in beta. Something that has always really confused and annoyed me is the fact that when stunned, a large number of enemies suddenly gain extraordinary movement powers, which they then use to flee your presence with alarming speed.
Particularly guilty of this are enemies with inherent flying abilities, such as Goldbrickers, Wyvren Wing Talons, CoT ghosts, and Arachnos Mu units. All of these have an obnoxious tendancy to fly STRAIGHT UP at around 50 MPH when stunned, preventing me from attacking them at all. Often, since most of these are ranged attackers, they just stay up there, and I'm forced to run around a corner or under an overhang so that they don't just sit up there taking potshots at me.
All of this leads me to wonder, why am I being punished for having a side effect on all of my attacks? Isn't stun supposed to be useful to me?
[/ QUOTE ]I want to know why we villains in cov were never given this inherrent power?
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Well, for starters THAT wouldn't be "fun" would it? If you could just "run away" when having the snot knocked outta ya, you would not be playing a "fun" game. Well, it might be "great" for you but the Comp AI needs to have "fun" too.
What gets me is the incredible PLUS to defense disorient gives to the person presently drooling cranial fluid from their mouth.....
Pow!!! With a Jab to the gut!!!
Criminal is wobbling around with those nice swirlies zipping around their heads and the stars effect is a nice touch....
"Look the Son'Btch is disoriented!!!" "Oh goodie!! My Knock Out Blow is recharged- I'm gonna knock this guy to 5th dimension"
A poweful mountian crumbling- swing....and a miss.
"Well, Okay I double slotted with SO's for Acc- But HECK we ALL miss sometimes" "Haymaker is next on the good ole attack chain...I'm gonna knock this bass-turd through the Earth's upper crust!!"
A massive double axe handle crushing down with the force to knock an airliner out of the sky- swing ........and a miss.
"What....crap!! Punch is next.....hurry up now son....times a'wastin'...finish this goober!!"
A helluva spine collasping smash doward onto the skull that would kill an elephant- swing.........and a miss.
"[censored]!!!! Jeesus....I'm tired......Jab the punk beeyotch again......"
A jab flys out with enough momentum to punish a small continent-swing......and a miss.
"Damm........huh huh huh huh huh......need end rest.....left arm all tingely like.....chest is tight......toggles dropping..."
By this time the criminal has popped outta their wobbly gimped daze- looks at you and levels their nice sonic, flame throwing, stunning blow, with a nice pinch of knockback gun at you.......
With a pull of enough force to twing a guitar string on the trigger............BRRRRAAAAAPPPPAPAPAPAPAP.....
THUD.
"You can wait for an ally to revive you or you can choose to go the the hospital or to your super groups base........."
"I'm not scared of anyone or anything Angie. Isn't that the way life should be?"
Jack Hawksmoor, The Authority.
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Bug
In an upcoming patch, flying entities that are disorient will no longer behave oddly.
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What about non-flying enemies. When I was leveling up my Sonic Blaster, I hit a Harlequin Fencer with Screech in the largest room of a warehouse map. She jumped from the floor up to the highest rafters while stunned. It was a direct jump too, no jumping on shelves or to the second floor. straight to the ceiling from the floor.
If we can barely move, no jumping, etc.. while stunned, why do our enemies?
[quoteAnyway.. this has already been explained as a bug.
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A bug since launch, April 28th, 2004.
I guess it was not on top of the bug correction list...
What about Malta who are still able to drain energy while flying and stunned?
I've been playing an Energy Melee Brute since release, and also played one in beta. Something that has always really confused and annoyed me is the fact that when stunned, a large number of enemies suddenly gain extraordinary movement powers, which they then use to flee your presence with alarming speed.
Particularly guilty of this are enemies with inherent flying abilities, such as Goldbrickers, Wyvren Wing Talons, CoT ghosts, and Arachnos Mu units. All of these have an obnoxious tendancy to fly STRAIGHT UP at around 50 MPH when stunned, preventing me from attacking them at all. Often, since most of these are ranged attackers, they just stay up there, and I'm forced to run around a corner or under an overhang so that they don't just sit up there taking potshots at me.
All of this leads me to wonder, why am I being punished for having a side effect on all of my attacks? Isn't stun supposed to be useful to me?